Upmarket or traditional - How can you have both?

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:28
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We just came back from a camping and touring trip up through Camerons, Innaminka, Birdsville (a bit of the Simpson) to Normanton in the Gulf.

I am not one for the new european influenced meals that are put on the table in the cities. But to order "Traditional bangers and mash" at the Innaminka pub I was annoyed to say the least. It was no where traditional. I thought the word traditional meant a lot of years. Maybe 100 plus. Looks like the chef (read cook) at Innaminka has distorted it to mean "anything that has come from overseas in the last few years". The mashed potatoes had chives, pepper and something else that I can't identify in it. The mashed potato wasn't even creamy. Maybe not even some butter or milk in it. It tasted strange. The sausages had something spicy stuck down the middle. I was told that they were "gourmet" from the Adelaide Hills. Now how can you have a traditional bangers and mash with some new spicy gourmet sausage. At least the gravy tasted like beef. What a rip off.

They also stuffed up my wife's dinner. She said no gravy as you do not put gravy on chicken schnitzel. They sure smothered it in gravy. But they replaced the meal. With a sirloin that we had trouble keeping it on the plate as it was so rare. What happened to the replacement chicken schnitzel we asked. Beats us.

What's the bush coming to. We expected it at Parachilna and I still got a reasonably traditional crumbed chicken there. But when it is claimed to be traditional and very noticeable is NOT, I get cheesed off.

It was the same at Birdsville. Didn't even bother ordering there. Went back to the tent and cooked up some of our own bangers and mash. With gravy as well.

What a stuff up!!

Phil
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Reply By: Rob! - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:40

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:40
Wow. You got a gourmet sausage rather than a standard one. If these are the problems that you must deal with, try going overseas to see how the less fortunate than us live.
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Follow Up By: tg123 - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:05

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:05
Sad Phil, very sad!! - you should talk with my brother - his glass is also always half empty!

Cheers
TG
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:07

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:07
Rob steady on mate.

If you had known me from months back you may recall, from my previous posts, that I have cancer. It's under control, barely. I have to be careful with and avoid spices and chillies. None of this "pretentious" gourmet stuff.

That's one reason that we do not go overseas now. Don't have any interest in going overseas anyway. Besides that I am not allowed to fly now. That had to stop in 2005. I used to travel a lot for work.

I would have loved a "standard" sausage as you called it. Maybe I could have eaten the dinner.

Phil
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:09

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:09
TG.Mine is but at least the doctors have given me another 5 years.

Phil

Why the "smart" responses guys!

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Follow Up By: tg123 - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:32

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:32
Phil - I am truly sorry to hear you have cancer. However, as there was no mention of this or your dietary requirements in your post it read as a rant about some pubs' food. If I were in your situation perhaps I would be having a quiet word with the staff to let them know my dietary requirements prior to ordering and therefore hopefully avoid the problems you had.
I realise telling others of our intolerances or disabilities can be embarrassing (I'm deaf and often need to explain this to people I speak with) but doing so can save a lot of angst.
Cheers
TG
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:53

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:53
Fair enough TG.

Just a word on my cancer and then I will drop it. Apart from the being weak and the diet it does not really affect us. The main problem with the cancer is that I have to be back in Canberra exactly four weeks after each infusion of immune cells. It's supposed to be done exactly every four weeks. Does'nt give much time to do the Canning hey!!! See I have my priorities in the right place.

We do mention the dietry requirements but it is so often ignored that we now just stick to the places that we know. One could say that I should have know.Well yes I should. But it's the outback not Oxford Street!! My fault.

But I do enjoy my own "traditional" family cooking, and even make a good chocolate cake, straight out of the packet.

And yes. I agree with what you said about "telling people". But do you find that it goes right over their heads a lot of the time. It is as if people do not care nor listen. Just like the clown who put gravy on my wifes dinner even though she specifically said "No gravy".

Ahh well!!!

Next trip is to the Simpson.

Phil
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Reply By: MP - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:50

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:50
I reckon I had gravy on my last chicken schnitzel. Sorry, I didn't know about that rule. What do you put on chicken schnitzel?
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Follow Up By: Bill BD - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:00

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:00
Almost universally in Aussie eateries you should use something with grease absorbing properties.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:10

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:10
Bill I agree they always seem to use too much fat.

You put a lemon sauce on it.

Phil
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Reply By: Bill BD - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:52

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 14:52
Phil, it must have been a great trip if the pub food was the only thing to complain about. I seldom enter a out of the way eatery expecting good food, although I am often pleasantly surprised.

"Traditional" may be used a bit liberally on occasions.... I suppose you could ask for details before ordering. I don't mind cooks experimenting a bit as I like things to be different. The negative is that sometimes it aint what you expect.... ah well.... that's part of the adventure of eating out.

BTW - I would be miffed if a cook/chef to put milk in mashed spuds..... lots of butter and no milk makes a creamy but fluffy mash (as it is supposed to be).

Cheer up Phil..... at least there wasn't a Maccas close by.

Bill
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:26

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:26
Bill

I do not expect home type meals. They cannot make them. But when you ask about it and are told all is fine one is inclined to get a bit peeved.

It was also a special night as our son had driven up from Adelaide with his two kids for the night. We don't see them much. They couldn't even eat theirs either as it was too spicy for the kids. Our mad family!. Drive to Surfers from Sydney for a milkshake. Mad I say!!!

Don't eat MacDonald's etc.

My grandmother used to put butter (home made bye the way) and warmed up milk in our mashed potato. Mum also did it that way and we do at home.

They used to make a ripper bangers and mash at the "Truckstop 31" at Marulan, on the Hume, until recently. New owners don't though.

I also think that you are correct about the understanding of "traditional". It changed around the time the movie "They Are a Weird Mob" was released. Hey???

Catchya

Phil
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Reply By: gordon_adel - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:32

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:32
I understand where Phil is coming from. Going out bush some tend to expect things the the old fashioned (traditional) way. Might not have used the best example to get his point across though.

However as the world moves forward, things will and do change. The remoteness that was 20 years ago is nowhere near as remote now.

Phil, just wondering, on the menu, did it actually say 'traditional'?

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Follow Up By: Life Member - esarby (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:56

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 15:56
TRADITIONAL BANGERS & MASH
As served at the Hilton Sydney last Christmas Day.

After enjoying it so much I asked the chef for the recipe

Ingredients (serves 4)
700g potatoes, peeled, chopped
1 tablespoon butter
1 small leek, white part only, sliced
1/3 cup milk
1/3 cup grated parmesan cheese
8 thick beef sausages
1 tablespoon olive oil
Relish - makes 1 1/2 cups
1 tablespoon olive oil
1/2 red onion, finely chopped
2 red capsicum, cut into 1cm cubes
1 large tomato, chopped
1 garlic clove, crushed
1/4 cup sultanas
1/4 cup brown sugar
1/3 cup white wine vinegar

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:09

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:09
Thanks Gordon. I have lost a lot of the skill in putting down in writing what I have in my head. I miss work!!

Remote at Birdsville. You should have seen the crowd. The pub was packed. And no races on. Just plane loads of tourists out to see the "outback" in their Carnaby Street holiday clothes. Quite amusing actually. We got out of there the next day. Into the Simposon for a "test drive" and then up to Mt Isa, while heading for the Gulf and some fishing.

The menu said exactly that. "Traditional Bangers and Mash".

Phil
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:14

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:14
Esarby:

A good example of how people really do not know what "traditional" means. We struck the same when we had a big "family" Christmas Dinner at the Burwood RSL. I thought that they being an old Aussie organisation would get it right. Nah. Oh well!!

I see from your profile that we disagree. We love sharing the solitude of the bush. You can have your crowds.

Phil
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:22

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:22
Sadly, bush isn't quite as solitude as it used to be.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:38

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:38
Too true. But you can still find places with "free" (I think that is the term) bush camoing. Thats why we don't tow anything.

Did not see a sole in the Sturt NP near Tibooburra. Only one other visitor/camper at the Dig tree!!! Surprise. Only saw one car on the Simpson. They are still there.

Phil
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 17:12

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 17:12
One person’s dream, another’s nightmare tends to ring true here and I guess words like ‘traditional’ are far too open to interpretation to provide any meaningful guide as to what to expect, especially on a food menu.

But the bush is changing. More people are getting access via improved roads, affordable air travel, or whatever. With that comes the potential that tourism facilities and their offerings will change to cater for wider tastes in order to attract patrons, for some communities this has been a life-line...

Innamincka is a classic example; the oil and gas exploration in the region has led to improved access roads and this has encouraged people who have never ventured to the region to come and see what it has to offer. The pub has undergone a makeover to cater to a wider market and an opportunity to obtain better returns on the capital they’ve invested and to provide employment opportunities in an industry that could do with a shot in the arm. And sure, I kinda liked the pub the way it was, rustic outback appeal and all, but then I probably never bought much more than a pie and a couple of beers when I visited, so maybe they are happy to see a new ‘breed’ of tourist willing to share their ‘wealth’ around...

Is this a good thing? Well that depends whose shoes you are in, but one thing is for sure everything evolves in time...

But let’s face it ‘traditional bangers and mash’ can hardly lay claim to having its origins in the Australian Outback, its pub grub from England...

Cheers...
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:35

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:35
True Landy

Our son works on that big rig just up the road. Drilling holes for power generation using the heat "down there". Eight KMs down I think. I don't think they will be eating there. He was not impressed either.

Being of English heritage some seven generations back I think Traditional can be used for the Bangers and Mash I am referring to. They have been in our family as long back as I can remember.

Yes. We were boat people. Charles Peat (highway robber) and Hannah Mullins ("a lady of the night") in the first fleet. Sponsored and with cabins safely below decks and chains to make sure they did not fall overboard. Same mob from Peats ferry just north of Sydney and my Mothers maiden name. Dads mob came out as imigrants on the 2nd fleet I think.

Phil
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:21

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:21
Become a Vegetarian Phil , and eat fresh Veggies - at least when vegies are old they look it.

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:36

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:36
Uggghhh.

Not my fare mate.

Phil
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Reply By: Member - warren h (SA) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 17:30

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 17:30
Hi Phil,

It is not hard to be disapointed when you eat out, I think my experience would be 75 percent of the time. Meals are overpriced, badly cooked and a lot of the times the ingredients are stale. My remedy,cook at home.

Had one meal out a few years ago, on Pittwater in Sydney, at a fairly upmarket seafood restuarant, food was crap, but the response from the staff when we complained was unbelievable, straight out of Faullty Towers, turned out a good night we laughed so much, they had no idea what we were laughing at. I think they thought we were crazy.

All the best Phil Warren
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Reply By: Member - Adrian L (QLD) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:06

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:06
Maybe you should have tried the seven course meal at the Birdsville Pub..............a pie and a sixpack!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Happy travels
Adrian
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Follow Up By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:21

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:21
Now you are talkin!! Nothing like a malt sanger when all else fails. LOL
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:41

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:41
We opted for that one back at the tent. We had them defrosted some sausages ready for a BBQ but seeing our son and his kids turned up unannounced (from Adelaide!!!!!) we though we would try the pub. BAD choice. So for those who did not have enough, it was the defrosted snags on the BBQ accompanied by a few beers back at the tent.

Phil
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Reply By: Bigfish - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:06

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:06
Know where ya comin from Phil. Six of us did an eight night stay around the top-end. Kakadu,Pine Ck, Katherine, Daly Waters, Kunnunurra and Batchelor.
Evry where we had breakfast we had to deliberatley ask for crispy bacon. It was annoying seinga limp sad looking piece of greasy bacon sittin on ya plate. Cant people cook bacon anymore?? I,m payin so I reckon I have the right to have it how I like it.
Not a whinger, just like my bacon cooked properly.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:48

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:48
Here Here

Batchelor. Never again. We had some something, can't remember what, that was so far off it needed a Visa to get back to the table. It was rotten. And they knew damned well it was bad. Very quick replacing it for us. The cabin was also filthy. Hope it has changed.

Daly Waters. Absolutely spot on. The cook was on our side because we asked at the bar for the Rugby to be shown. Pride of place right down the front with the best steak ever. And brekky was just as good. Maybe you should follow Rugby. She was a Kiwi.

Phil
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Reply By: fitzroylou - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:28

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 18:28
I think if I paid what they were probably charging I'd want a bit of something extra like chives in the potato and a gourmet sausage. These days all the words traditional mean in a restaurant is that you'll get sausages, you'll get mash and you will recognise them. No promises about what either are made of.
We had the worst meal of our lives at the two storey in Tibooburra. Can still remember the name: Kev's Famous Rissoles. Tasted like Kev had emptied every spice jar in the rack into the mix. Slathered in horrible Gravox. Totally inedible. But that's travelling. You take the good with the bad.
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Reply By: Penchy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 20:37

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 20:37
Bloody hell! Never before have I seen such a whinge and moan about the most simplest thing. vk1dx, if the meal didnt come as you ordered it, send it back or dont pay for it. I bet your the type that moans about the flies and kids that play too loudly in the morning at camp. Shame to hear about your cancer, I wouldnt wish it on anyone, but you cant use that as an excuse to whinge and moan about everything that is not excactly how you want it. Do you travel into the bush for "traditional" meals or to see and experience the country? Lighten up or have a spoon of concrete handy. Thats how it is now.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 21:22

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 21:22
You didn't really give that post much thought did you?

I bet you're the type who's kids play loudly whilst you get rotten.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 23:10

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 23:10
Penchy

You really grabbed the wrong end of the stick.

Phil
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Reply By: blue one - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 21:12

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 21:12
LOL Thanks
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Reply By: Member - blackbird1937 - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 23:29

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2011 at 23:29
Most of the people travelling in the bush are from the cities and expect the same type of meals as they buy there .I am sure most of the cooks will not cook plain meals these days because nearly all of the people complain there isn't any taste , so the food is loaded up with spices and herbs . There is nothing wrong with pommy food , it might be plain but you do not starve . I was brought up on plain home cooked meals , mutton , pork , bacon that mum cured or sausages , mashed spuds with home made butter , milk and pepper , living on the farm also bread and dripping , and still like home cooked plain meals . I also like indian , thia , viet , chinese , greek , italian , german and turkish foods . I understand where Phil is coming from as some cannot have spicy food for health reasons . I am lucky that I like and can still eat spicy food as my gangerous gallbladder was taken out 8 years ago , most people without a gallbladder cannot eat spicy meals . I also like juice from a lemon on my schnitzels . We are all different with food choices . Have many more great trips .
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 02:18

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 02:18
Trendsetters

The 10 minutes I just spent/wasted reading the above diatribe makes feel like poisoning a monk.

Robin Miller

Could you be so good as to give me the weight of Mung beans and Chic Peas so that I can factor them into a CSR trip planning exercise.

DD


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Reply By: Member - Bucky - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 05:51

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 05:51
Stop sooking, and take your own stuff, if you are such a picky person.

Some people got nothing better to do.

Cheers
Bucky
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 08:39

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 08:39
Who is "sooking".

I have already explained that it was supposed to be a night with our son who drove all the way up from Adelaide with two young children to have dinner with grandma and grandpa. No sook mate. We usually bush camp. No comfortable van or air conditioner.

I was just telling people how bad it was even though I asked the staff if it was had spices and herbs and was told it didn't.

Next time read the whole bit before jumping in with an off the cuff comment that does not help the discussion. Looks like you are one of those people.

Phil
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Reply By: Patrol22 - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 14:15

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2011 at 14:15
WOW...things must've really changed at the Innaminka Pub since I was last there in Aug 2009. Went along one night to try out the fare and it was so bloody good we went back the next night and again outstanding. Reckon I would've gone the next night too if I didn't have to move on to the next place........ From memory the chef was a guy from the UK and the staff were mostly Irish backpackers.....but great food, great service, great beer and excellent company as well.
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Reply By: Member - Ruth D (QLD) - Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 07:30

Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 07:30
Well Phil - I'm with you! Would it surprise you that the Innamincka and Birdsville Pubs are linked? I'm surprised you didn't mention the COST? Would it surprise you when I say there is no difference in price or menu for locals?
There should not be gravy on Chicken Schnitzel (anymore then there should be bloody tomato sauce).
It has been my experience when cooking in Birdsville (I had such long days that cooking at night became impossible for me) that when I had Corned Silverside and Vegetable on the Menu or Roast Anything with all the Vegetables and Puddings (not Desserts) like Baked Custard or Sliced Bananas with Real Egg Custard (in a double boiler - not out of a packet) - I couldn't make enough.
Soon became aware that people were happy to try out the Gourmet but really wanted old fashioned cooking (call it comfort food whatever), In winter I always had a pot of Pea and Ham Soup in the cold room - nothing added in but green slpit peas and ham bone or Chicken and Vegetable Soup made with the carcasses of the chickens (used for the sandwiches) and fresh vegetables (my freight bill for that stuff was enormous). If I put a pot of stew (with flavour not spice) on the Menu in winter - the biggest pot was never big enough - and the best part of all this was all those people hiding in their caravans watching TV all the time, came out, brought their glass of wine and we all sat around and had some good conversations - for not much cost.
That's what I like about camping - meeting people, seeing the sites and having great conversations.
As someone who travels a fair bit and has to eat 'gourmet' - Friday nights it's usually mashed potato, sweet potato and 'punkin' , fresh green beans and a nice steak. I can't live without fresh green beans - even in Birdsville (and that was a logistical nightmare).
Oh yes, Savoury Mince was bit hit on the Breakfast Menu - mince, onion, carrot,
gracy, black and red sauces! Simple fare. Sometimes, if you were nice people (and lucky) there was fresh yellow belly as well!
Bring back the simple fare I say!
Happy travels everyone no matter what you eat!
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:23

Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:23
The first sentence in the whinge says it all " I,m not one for the new European influenced meals " , so go and ask what the meal actually consists of instead of your whinging , Totally BLAND 'traditional ' bangers and mash alah pommy land ? Or propper 'traditional' bangers and mash as served in other parts of the world ? If you really want 'traditional ' Australian bangers you would be eating a mixture of the butcher shop floor scrapings and sawdust.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:42

Friday, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:42
Real smart. Thanks for your very helpful post.

We did ask the staff and that's why I chose that meal. I hope that one day you have a dietry issue. Maybe then you will see what it's like.

Just watch any of those cooking shows and you will see how much goes into the meals.

We used to enjoy going out to restaurants at least once a fortnight. Since 2005 it's twice a year and even then it's to the bowling club or the RSL.

Phil
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