Carbon Tax

Its a sad day for Australians when a minority government with no mandate forces such massive economic destruction on a country such as ours.

Anything that increases our cost of living and puts unnecessary cost pressures on business, forces our competitive advantage offshore will impact the level of disposable income available to spend on leisure activities.

Hi Wilko

There is a calculator you can use but its pretty poor.

http://www.carbontax.net.au/household-compensation/

In the initial phases I think it will not cost your senario , mainly because fuel isn't taxed directly and there are tax offsets which make up for its impact on electricity etc for most people.


Its all a shame because the science is good , but I don't support this tax because unlike the GST the government didn't get a mandate for it.

Being able to trust a government is a more important factor for me.

Forumites,

While the heading may appear to many to be off topic, the point of Wilko’s post is very relevant. What will be considered off topic/inappropriate is if people reply in a party political fashion away from the intent of Wilkos post. Please keep this in mind when posting a reply. We do not wish this post to become a political rant that breaches the spirit and rules of the forum

Thanks for your understanding

The Modsquad

Hi Wilko, It might affect my lifestyle, but it won't affect me travelling this great country. Can't put a tax on nature, or can they.??

ARGH - I just wote a detailed reply and my computer deleted it somehow.

I think the way we travel is already very altered by environmental issues and the CTAX needs to be viewed in light of that. For example, vehicles are now complex and expensive to repair. Only the very skilled of us can do our own repairs, unlike the old landy and similar. This is largely to meet efficiency/emissions regulations. Aussie fuel is "parity priced" to tie our fuel prices to the overseas market. This is partly to limit our fuel use by inflating the price. This has a massive effect on travel.

I think it is hard to sort through the mud thrown up about the CTAX. It looks to me that it will open up opportunities when it moves to emissions trading. I am happy that, for the first time, industry is accepting responsibility for its emissions. I am concerned about the short term effect but look forward to it driving alternative technologies. Perhaps travellers in 20 years will be getting about in very different vehicles than now, so the change could be massive.

Hi Wilco, You have asked question so here is my view. The prime minister stressed the carbon tax would apply only to the nation's biggest polluters and that most households would be compensated for any price rises. She also stated that there still is a lot of explaining to do & a lot to learn about the CTAX so I would imagine things may change in the future!!! The way it has been explained through the media is confusing to a certain degree. I am more interested in the the Fuel Watch Dog.....has anyone seen him or her? I found some teeth on the way to Birdsville this year & I wonder if they belong to Our Watchdog.!!!!

The carbon tax might seen great to some but it will affect everyone through higher costs from businesses being past on.

Gilards phrase "it is only going to affect high pollutants".... one of the businesses we have is a refrigeration company, Australian refrigeration companies operate under one of the wolrds most strictest code of practice put in place 5 years ago under the Rudd government..... we have to recover all used refrigerants, keep records of what refrigerants we buy, sell and return for destruction...we have to keep records of repairs and maintenance of service equipment including checking of refrigerant cylinders and all our technicians have to be qualified and licensed...... as a company we also have to have a "refrigerant trading authorisation number" to be able to buy and store refrigerants.

And we get regularly audited to ensure we are complying.

We are already operating above "worlds best practice" set out by the government.

But thats not enough.... we are going to get slugged a tax of between $32.00 and $60.00 per kilogram of refrigerant being used.

How can we be a big pollutant when we are following strict practises set out by the government and recover all refrigerants.

We are expecting a down turn in business and have already seen the impact from large companies.

This flow on effect will effect everyone regarding wages, employment and day to day running and maintenance costs of general house hold items and vehicles.

The economy is already feeling the pinch due to issues outside Australia's control, utility prices have increased not by the usual 2-3% but by as much as 20%.

Sure we need reform for pollutanters who don't follow "worlds best practices" but how can you change to something better if the technology is not there to support it or in our case we all ready exceed "worlds best practices" set out by the government 5 years ago .

Yes I an expecting it to affect our travel plans and the sad thing is once in they can do almost anything the like with it .... lets put a 40 cent per litre tax on petrol on top of the other 10 taxes already imposed...... disposal of used oils and tyres will all of a sudden increase to a point where people will just start dumping it illegally.

Road transport is already feeling the pinch and the carbon tax will be introduced to them in the next 2 years.... seems like no big deal but when an industry is suffering now it will through many operators to the wall bringing down companies that you may work for by not being able to pay for work supplied by you and you company.

I am very concerned for us over the next 1 to 5 years.

When the GST came in it was removing on tax (wholesale) and replacing it with another tax.

The debate over global warming has raged for some time, and regardless of the ‘scientific’ arguments from both sides of the divide, intuitively I doubt the world can continue to emit the way it does without any impact on our fragile environment. As a lover of the bush and outback, I feel something needs to be done to ensure we have ‘best practice’ when it comes to greenhouse emissions so as to preserve it for future generations. I’m sure I don’t stand alone on this point.

In simplistic terms I doubt it will affect our plans to travel in the short-term because the government has already indicated it will exclude fuel from the scheme, a major component in most travel budgets.

But fuel is only part of the story, this tax will affect people in many ways, the cost impost may reduce the competitiveness and profitability of many companies, which in turn reduces their ability to employ, or pay dividends. This will no doubt affect people in the long-term through job losses and reduced incomes. Discretionary expenditure such as travel in household budgets will most likely be affected over time.

In respect to the Moderators’ request I’ll steer clear of the political element inherent in this discussion (albeit it is difficult), however I will say, this tax does nothing to encourage emitters to modify behaviours, so what is the point, and on mandates, the current government has a mandate under the parliamentary system in Australia, and there is little doubt this Bill will pass both Houses of our Parliament. Don’t confuse what might be morally right with the reality of the situation. That’s politics, I guess!

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Off Topic Rule .

Forum Moderation Team

I'll probably get moderated for this, but a bloke I know had a stroke a few weeks ago and to determine his mental faculties, they asked him a number of questions. One of which was "Who is the Prime Minister of Australia" Without a blink of an eye, he responded Bob Brown. His wife has to alert the medical staff to his sense of humour.
The above is a true account and not fictitious.
Cheers

Des

India and China are the big polluters and they are not interested in cutting down on carbon emissions . Australia has very little industry left . I heard early this morning on the ABC , Australia has lost 350,000 textile workers in the last 10 years . As usual it will be the small wage earner or pensioner who has to pay the bill because they will not be able to pass the cost on to anyone else . Even though the government promised they would subsidies the people I cannot see them doing it for the very long . I think the promise might be as good as the one made before the election , NO CARBON TAX . The greens surprise me , use electricity , gas , use paper like it is going out of fashion , have timber in their house , eat food produced with water , fertilizer , diesel , etc yet want everything shut down . The old people who paid taxes for around 50 years have been having it too good so their pleasure will have to be curtailed so I think the cost of using vehicles will go up .

Hi all,

Keeping away from the politics (Thanks Mod squad for allowing)

My views is that it will change the way I travel, I can see a time when the larger caravan/motor homes will become too exxy to run so people would look for smaller cheaper to run tow rigs and vans.

I believe it will impact on fuel pricing so my trips will become shorter with a view to getting the most bang for my traveling buck. Stopping longer in one spot

It might not happen overnight but in the coming years I think it will change.

Cheers Wilko

Wilco,
Just a little story on how this tax will affect travel. Just before we headed off this year I decided to get new shockers and a snorkel fitted to the Prado and decided to wait while the job was being done. The office girl said to the business owner that electricity costs had gone up $400 on the same quarter last year and his reply straight back was put up the charge out rate $1.50 per hour.
Every service we get will reflect these increased costs and impact on our travel plans.
TTD1

They said this about GST that it would ruin the lived etc etc. Its another form of Tax which if used correctly will impact on our cost of living. Australia is such a large exporter of coal, which introduces billions into the economy. Ask yourself this question. If it did not impact you in the slightest would you change your habit? The price of electricity is going up, now we see people using Energy Effiecent Light bulbs. People turning items off at the wall. This would not have happened to the majority if the price of electricity did not go up. I am all for this Green Tax, which Tax's big polluters of this earth. Australia is doing the right thing. Albiet small in the size of the earth's economy, but its certainly a start. Will it impact my cost of living? Yes. Does it bother me? Yes. Is it the right thing to do? Yes.

Look on the bright side, maybe it will work and our grand kids will still be able to enjoy the outback as we do now.

NZ has it and it hasn't been the end of the world,

Europe is looking like going the same way.

My advice, don't listen to all the negative BS being spread

John (Vic)

I think most of us hear you loud and clear; you are opposed to this particular scheme, but please stop hijacking the thread with political rhetoric. And I suggest this in the nicest possible way!

The moderators’ (and I’m not one!) in their wisdom reinstated the thread earlier today on the basis that discussion will be contained to the specific topic of how it might affect our travel plans, not what we think of it from a political viewpoint. All you will end up doing is having this thread closed off to further comment...

You have recourse to remedy the situation at the ballot box...

Thanks one and all but as it appears some just can’t curtail their need to turn this into a political comment, we’ll lock the post to prevent it going further astray.

Thanks Wilko. We always knew there was going to be a risk with this one but decided it was an interesting topic and one you wove into the context of the forum in a good fashion. We can only hope that whatever the outcomes, the impact to the costs associated with travelling this great country of ours will not be too onerous.

The Modsquad