Crocs movements

Thanks : )

Hi Serindipity,
I know you mean’t south of Port Heland – it might confuse those from the east coast.
By the way thanks for the DVD on the Troopy service manual – works brilliantly
Regards Dennis

Hi Dennis

Glad I could help.

Port Hedland is sort of on a patch of coast that goes east west but yes you are right - generally called heading south when going that way.

Cheers

David

Thanks Serendipity,
Great info and fantastic photo!

none of australias sankes come in the top 100 of worlds deadliest

thats just dumb stuff to tell tourists and to fuel peoples snake paranoia

worlds deadliest sankes include russels viper saw scaled viper which kill enough people each year to wipe out most australian towns or whole city subnurbs and some

all of our snakes put together kill enough people to kill - well barely 2 people

as i said fantasy vs fact are 2 different things

Worlds deadliest snakes,

Venomous Land Snakes (Ernst and Zug et al. 1996)[1][2] Snake Region SC LD50
Inland taipan Australia 0.025 mg/kg
Eastern brown snake Australia 0.0365 mg/kg
Coastal taipan Australia, New Guinea 0.106 mg/kg
Many banded krait China, Taiwan, Burma, Laos, Vietnam 0.108 mg/kg
Peninsula tiger snake Australia 0.131 mg/kg
Saw-scaled viper Asia; Indian subcontinent 0.151 mg/kg
Black Mamba Sub Saharan Africa 0.185 mg/kg
Western tiger snake Australia 0.194 mg/kg
Eastern coral snake Northeast Mexico, Southeast U.S. 0.196 mg/kg
Philippine cobra Philippines 0.21 mg/kg

From Wikipedia.

This probably explains it better.


Which snake species is the most venomous depends on the measure used. The average or the maximum venom yield from milking could be suggested, but these measures can be criticised as not reflecting the impact of a real bite. The measure generally acknowledged as best reflecting how dangerous a snake's venom is is that of LD50. The lower this number, the less venom is required to cause death. By that measure, the most venomous snake in the world is Australia's inland taipan (Oxyuranus microlepidotus). The table below gives the top 25 species in order, their LD50, and their distribution.
Snake Species LD50* Distribution
1. Inland taipan 0.025 Australia
2. Eastern brown snake 0.053 Australia
3. Coastal taipan 0.099 Australia
4. Tiger snake 0.118 Australia
5. Black tiger snake 0.131 Australia
6. Beaked sea snake 0.164 Australia
7. Black tiger snake (Chappell Island ssp.) 0.194 - 0.338 Australia
8. Death adder 0.400 Australia
9. Gwardar 0.473 Australia
10. Spotted brown snake 0.360 (in bovine serum albumin) Australia
11. Australian copperhead 0.560 Australia
12. Cobra 0.565 Asia
13. Dugite 0.660 Australia
14. Papuan black snake 1.09 New Guinea
15. Stephens' banded snake 1.36 Australia
16. Rough scaled snake 1.36 Australia
17. King cobra 1.80 Asia
18. Blue-bellied black snake 2.13 Australia
19. Collett's snake 2.38 Australia
20. Mulga snake 2.38 Australia
21. Red-bellied black snake 2.52 Australia
22. Small eyed snake 2.67 Australia
23. Eastern diamond-backed rattlesnake 11.4 North America
24. Black whipsnake >14.2 Australia
25. Fer-de-lance >27.8 South America
*LD50

Get outmore. At the moment I'm staying at a cattle station in the NT called Lorella Springs. It is very isolated and so far have seen the inland Taipan, brown, and a black whip snake all within 150 meters of the shed. Please come out and visit, just walk around like there is nothing that's going to kill you. Only 2 days ago I had a 3.5 meter python (ok harmless) but if bitten and you are out here a bite from that snake could lead to infection, and no one will be able to get to you by road, they closed it last week, by air you will have to drive if you can to the air strip. This is a person that is from overseas and is WALKING not driving, his trip will take him past this station and if he is asking for croc advice he is not up to speed with the Australian outback. He has read books, a bit like Americans think that we all have kangaroos in our back yards. As for your statement of snakes in Australia, I think you should have a look at what rockape has put up before you say any more.

Oh just one more thing Get outmore, You must live in a brick house and never go out into the bush. Your last statement about facts and fantasy, Fact the Russell viper is in India and its habitat is in rice fields and there are 2 times a year when they kill, when the farmer plant this rice and when the farmer harvests this rice. They are often in remote places (some 4 to 5 hours from aid) then you die. Australia is very remote and any bite from a inland Taipan in a remote area and your dead. Fantasy people believe that you can get aid in remote areas within 1 hour is a fantasy. Even if he has a Sat phone, by the time they find him and then find a place to land and maybe have to walk some klm to him he is dead. The reason Australian's only have small amounts of death is that we don't go out into the bush unprepared. As most of you stay in your brick homes, and only a few venture out into the bush so the death rate is small, but their is a death rate(FACT) not fantasy.

dealiest would mean they kill alot of people

all rockape has done is post Ld50 stats

the actual facts are vastly different

you talk of the inland taipan

how many people do you think its killed
.............. none - no one, zip you can argue LD50 stats all you like but the actual facts are (and yes there are many reasons behind it)

yes the actual FACTS

is our snakes kill (ie the ultimate measure of deadliness)

kill less than 3 people a year on averadge

Im going from memory now but snakes like the saw scaled and russels kill something like 30,000 people a year now THATS deadly

all quoting some Ld50 numbers (huh and someone accuse ME of not getting out bush) does is encoaraged people phobias of snakes and justify there killing on site

if you try an discuss this further ill post my close up pics of these so called "deadly" snakes which really does put there "deadliness" into perspective.

dont confuse venom toxcicity with deadliness they are 2 totally different things

Stay cool!

Some learn from mistakes, most of us try to learn from other's mistakes and some of us like to research as much as possible to avoid unwelcome surprises and that research includes plumbing the wealth of advise from Explore Oz.

It helps being Australian and having quite bit of experience in the bush and a little first hand knowledge and understanding of most of Australia but, as I have already learnt from this query, there is a lot about salty crocs most Aussies are not aware of and is not readily available on the net.

Snakes, spiders, scorpians, centipedes, etc...unavoidable, bites/strikes preventable and mostly survivable if prepared and trained. Most dangerous species out there will be the homosapien and for them I will need to trust my guardian angels.

But back to the subject. I'm finding these salty croc answers very enlightening.

Thanks

getoutmore,
no one is accusing you of not getting out bush or of not knowing snakes.

All Andy was trying to say was be on the lookout for snakes.

Having seen first hand the results of someone being bitten by a death adder I would not like to be bitten by any venomous snake.

I simply posted venom stats.

RA.

Thanks for that : )

And you reckon Andys Adventures comment was dumb? LOL,,,,,,, I think the Steve Irwin fans might eat you for breaky soon!

my point was he seems to be after definitive answers

and really there arnt too many

I can say theres no crocs in the Swan with a fair degree of posativity

i can say between exmouth and hedland there probabally isnt too many but im not garanteeing it certainly they are known there

there was a big wet last year and should be another reasnable one this year

perfect for crocs to find new habitats

mnay spots a fairly croc free only due to trapping likem the katherine and kakadu plunge pools

I guess my best advice would be to read this

http://www.nt.gov.au/nreta/wildlife/becrocwise/pdf/fact_sheets/crocodile_safety.pdf

and as for our "deadly" snakes id say read this


How to avoid snake bites

Ways to avoid snake bites include:
•Leave snakes alone particularly if they have been provoked or if they are injured.
•Know appropriate first aid.
•Wear appropriate clothing and boots in known snake areas.
•Do not put hands or feet in or under logs, rocks, tin, hollows or crevices and watch where you are walking.
•Place stacks of tin, timber or similar materials on pallets or supports to get it off the ground.
•Keep homes and workplaces free of food or shelter for rodents.

Thanks for the link.
Are you really walking out there?
Tell me more

Muntoo
I'll be following the main hwys to Broome, up to Wyndham and across to Katherine. The only deviations will be to communities and townships within 20kms of the hwy or ports and mining towns.

Between Broome and Wyndham along the highway, the main places with saltwater crocs are the Fitzroy river, and the Dunham river. Between Wyndham and Kununurra MOST of the creeks that the highway crosses have crocs in them. The Dunham river and Lake Kununurra (lower Ord River) also have crocs but they are only 5kms from Kununurra.

Your fine from here Kununurra till you got near Timber creek, with Big Horse creek being home to crocs. Also Vic river . I wouldnt worry about it though, as long as you dont camp at any of these big rivers you will be fine.

If camping besides some creeks that are close to these rivers then you may want to camp were the bank is high and they cant get up. But in saying that, 200m is about the required distance to be safe enough away from areas that a croc can access.

I would be more worried about scrub bulls, dingos and wild pigs though.

Thank you Muntoo,
I really appreciate your knowledge
Cheers
Terra

Thanks Val,
You'r right, there will be NO wet season walking. I will only be walking between May and Aug/Sept.
I have informally mapped out my days across the top end with Google Earth which gives the elevation and distance through the path drawing tool. It has been super handy because I can pick a place above about 80m and a few kms from the closest water while compromising my daily distances by only a few kilometres.
I don't really mind them hijacking as they are "discussing" stuff that's relevant but I don't appreciate them getting nasty toward each other.

My Dad just told me about opinions - opinions are like armpits, everyone has at least 2 and they usually stink : )

When I have a bit extra personal money I'll set up a membership and start a blog so people can see who I am and what I'm doing. I'll pop the itinerary up in a blog.

Cheers
Terra

As Hairy said, ask a local and listen! Not like a camper at Kulumburru in 2007 that was insisting he knew better by swagging on the beach this is after burying fish frames further up the beach earlier. He did wake up in time to see a croc moving up the beach - they can smell fish miles away.

Have a safe journey and just use common sense.

Kind regards

Thanks Hairy and Beatit,
Good idea, will consult real locals as often as possible.

Thanks Bantam, I genuinely appreciate and understand your concern. I'm not taking this campaign on lightly.

I'm Aussie and have travelled almost all this wide brown land, including extensive long distance walking, 1400km Melb - Newie, 600km Tathra to Bairnsdale, about 1500km in he Australian Alps over the last 10yrs, and about 500km across the Himalayan Alps incl Karakoram, Kashmir and Annapurna ranges, 450km east from Esperence and 250km south from Fremantle. Most of these have been in warmer months including a Nullarbor summer.

You're absolutely right about how surprising it is how much water you need. I know I need 5-7 litres of water on a windy 30C+ day with a radient road heat of 45-50C. More if it's hotter and I need to walk through the heat. The secret is to get the maximum daily distance out of the way early and rest in the heat between 10 and 4 and try and cover a few more kms before road vis gets poor, ie before sunset. 2 years ago I had to walk in 41C in (the shade) with a road radient heat of 55C+ and struggled but this campaign has a lot of time flexibility in it so these kinds of days can be for rest and blister repair.

I have timed most of the walk with the seasons and it is very easily paced at an average 25km per day and adequate breaks for rest and free presentation.

I successfully completed my wilderness/remote survival first aid cert too.

My trek cart will be built to carry 100kgs incl 50-60litres water and I will be arranging water drops in the longer 2 week stretches between roadhouses. This way i will not need to collect water from unfamiliar rivers, creeks and wells.

The itinerary is also designed to break me into the tougher areas relatively gently with 3 solid training walks leading up to the start and the first few legs start in Tassie's spring and Melbourne to Adelaide to Ceduna for summer/autumn/winter and crossing to Kalgoorlie in winter. Absolutely NO wet season walking though.

I hope I will be well enough prepared because it is an important campaign and I only want to make 1 attempt at this.

I'll appreciate any advice you have

Cheers
Terra

Looks like you have an itch for walking - good on you.

I lived in the territory for years so in the dry season it is do-able.

Water is the constant trouble. We would see the bike riders with a sign on their back - 'give water' . Have you seen the livesaver water bottle. Capable of extracting clean water from any water source.

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/lifesaver-products/lifesaver-bottle

These are small - about the size of a normal drink bottle but can purify water.

Might be handy.



When you are camping out the dingos can be pretty troublesome - especially ones that are used to people - they will come right into the camp and steal what they can - especially rubber thongs.

Buffalo are scary - they don't back down even for a car and can be very quiet when the want to be - but mostly they just do their thing. I would doubt you would come across one on main highways -I have seen lots in Kakadu remote parts where tourist don't go.

Have fun and please do write a blog on this.

Cheers

Serendipity

Serendipity
That life saver water bottle looks good. I have a link bookmarked.
Thanks
Terra

Thanks Robtbob
: )