12v Battery Questions...
Submitted: Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:12
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Member - Oldbaz. NSW.
I have two 12v Deep Cycle Wet Cell Exide batteries..same age..have done limited
service on electric fence..discharged a couple of times. Both appear to charge fully
using Ctek 15000. 65 A/h.
Is there any reason not to use these in our caravan..connected in paralell to the
existing wiring harness in the front boot ?
How long could I expect to run an Electrolux RM 2310 fridge while travelling..no
input from alternator, using these batteries ?
Do I need some sort of low voltage cutout device..or does such already exist in the
fridge wiring ?
Your input will be most appreciated....cheers.....oldbaz.
Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:26
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:26
Hi Oldbaz,
The batteries sound like they are in OK condition, so would likley be fine to use.
Mounting them in the front boot is also OK, provided the boot is vented (they can discharge hydrogen - lighter than air).
At 65 a/hr each, that will give a total capacity of 130 a/hr. But best not to discharge below 50% if you want maximum battery life, though going down to say 25% is arguably a good compromise between using your battery capacity and battery life. Thus you have somewhere between 65 to ~100 a/hrs available.
Your fridge draws around 10 amps so you will have between 6 to 10 hours before the batteries should be recharged.
It would be best to install a low cutout device, otherwise the fridge will simply keep running down the batteries and that will significantly shorten their life.
I would also recommend a connection to the alternator, that way you should be able to keep the batteries charged while driving and only need to use them while stopped, but not setup thus the fridge not on gas yet.
Cheers
Captain
AnswerID:
472782
Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:31
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:31
Thanks Captain, that was what I was hoping to hear.
Can I add the cutout device close to the batteries & do you have any brand/type
to recomend ? Are they adjustable etc ?.....oldbaz.
FollowupID:
747624
Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:40
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:40
Hi Oldbaz,
I personally don't have any low voltage cutouts in my vehicle, hence have no personal recomendation. I see there is a link below to one by ABR, but that has a 10A rating and may struggle with your fridge. A more robust unit (plus more $$$) is either the
Baintech low voltage cutout or the
12 Volt Shop low voltage cutout (scroll down to it) units. These can be installed alongside the batteries and while they are not adjustable, you can get 10.8V, 11V and 11.8V settings depending on which one you buy.
The lower the voltage the more amps from the battery each use, but the shorter the overall life of the batteries.
Cheers
Captain
FollowupID:
747627
Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:42
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:42
Sorry, the baintech link didn't work, here it is again.
Baintech cutout
Cheers
Captain
FollowupID:
747628
Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 13:05
Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 13:05
Hi Oldbaz
I have a couple of those ARRID Auxiliary Voltage Controllers from the 12 volt
shop that Captain mentioned.
They have an internal control pot – this will adjust the voltage –but the 12 volt
shop advised me that they won’t warrant them once you’ve altered their preset trip point.
Another consideration is that devices such as these, with mechanical relays, draw about 20ma – which will flatten the battery to the trip point voltage if left connected.
Regards Dennis
FollowupID:
747701
Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 15:14
Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 15:14
Correction that 20ma should read 200ma.
FollowupID:
747710
Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:39
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:39
Within limits, there is no reason why you can't use these batteries in the front boot of your caravan.
The main thing you need to consider though is that wet cell batteries need to be secured to stop any spillage. Also, wet cell batteries will give off explosive gases whilst being charged and therefore need to be adequately ventilated.
As far as a low voltage cutout device is concerned, yes you should include one to stop excessive discharging of the batteries which will shorten their life. Even if discharged deeply a couple of times, a battery can be "destroyed" beyond successful recovery.
Very few fridges include low voltage cutout protection, the exception being most Waeco compressor fridges.
A low voltage protection device is only about $30 and will potentially pay for itself first use.
An Electrolux RM2310 fridge is a "3-way" fridge and the 12 volt circuit will use an element to cool the fridge contents. These are very hungry on battery supplies and should only be used on 12 volt while the vehicle alternator is providing a charge, or for very short stoppages when travelling.
In my opinion, if you intend to travel significantly, an investment in a 240v/12v upright compressor style fridge replacement will give you the best efficiency and piece of mind. Both Waeco and Engel have upright compressor fridges.
AnswerID:
472783
Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:44
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 09:44
Derek Bester (an ExplorOz advertiser) has a Low Voltage Protector on his web site.
Low Voltage Protector
The one modification I made to this device was to replace the plug and socket with a better quality Merit/Hella type.
FollowupID:
747625
Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:36
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:36
Thanks for your help, Bill. While I dont dispute the advantages of compressor fridges,
I have a long time liking for the 3 way on gas, as the easiest & cheapest option for
stays of several days or more. While I will include the Ctek in the system & will
recharge from mains or Honda 20i genny each night. Battery output at night being
only lighting. I am currently running a 3way in the Jack off the starter battery & works
fine..only when alt is running ,of course. I was thinking I may suppement the van fridge with the van batteries while travelling, if indeed, this proved necessary, as the
fridge wont be opened during the day. The option of adding alt power to the van is
always there as
well. Just have to try it all out on a couple of weekend trial runs & see
how it goes....cheers....oldbaz.
FollowupID:
747633
Reply By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:09
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 10:09
Hi Oldbaz,
so you've got a combined 130Ah of wet cell batteries.
I'd say at 30% DOD you can expect them to give you around 500 cycles, but only if fully recharged in between.
That means the alternator voltage needs to be at the higher end between 14~14.4V.
If you allow them to go down to 50% or even more, expect to get a couple of hundred cycles out of them at the most.
Based on this 30% DOD figure, they can supply 40Ah, or about 3 hours of fridge operation (13A average current on 12V).
So in theory these batteries are good for 500 stops each lasting 3 hours.
But there are other factors which you have to take into account:
batteries aren't new at this stage, alternator isn't capable of fully recharging between each stop, and last but not least batteries not receiving a regular equalisation boost.
Low voltage cutout device is definitely recommended.
cheers, Peter
AnswerID:
472787
Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:42
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:42
G'day Peter, thanks for the figures. With regard to my usage as outlined to Bill, above,
it appears I may get the result I need. I was hoping not to need another under
bonnet aux bat, or to even need an alt feed to the van. I will chase up a cutout as
advised. cheers.....oldbaz.
FollowupID:
747635
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:54
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 14:54
Your Ctek charger might tell you if your battery is totally dead, but it won't tell you that the battery's capacity is OK.
Only one way to find out - hook the batteries up, run the fridge and check the voltage every 30 minutes with a multimeter.
AnswerID:
472804
Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 15:10
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 15:10
Good point, Phil, thanks, will get the meter out......oldbaz.
FollowupID:
747637
Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 15:22
Sunday, Dec 18, 2011 at 15:22
And with regards to the low voltage cutout, most are limited to 10 amps, and your 3-way fridge draws about 13 amps continuous. I used to use low voltage cutouts but these days think they serve no useful purpose if you don't discharge your batteries below half. I like to monitor all my batteries with a digital voltmeter though.
FollowupID:
747638
Reply By: Member - Bucky - Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 03:38
Monday, Dec 19, 2011 at 03:38
Oldbaz
Do not forget to read the articles about battery's, and their "state of charge", posted on ExplorOz.
it's very comprehensive.
Cheers
Bucky
AnswerID:
472858