More on the Bogged Tourist

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:10

ThreadID: 9196 Views:3220 Replies:23 FollowUps:28

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Truckster (Vic)

http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8190385%255E26462,00.html
Dead tourist had 80L of water
December 17, 2003

A BRITISH tourist who died of dehydration left 80 litres of water when he walked away from his bogged vehicle and into the Great Sandy Desert.

Thomas Henry Sykes, 35, of London, died on Friday at a medical clinic in the remote Aboriginal community of Punmu, in Western Australia.

Mr Sykes had been trying to drive hundreds of kilometres east towards Alice Springs when his hired four-wheel drive became bogged.

The vehicle was found on Thursday, but when Mr Sykes was seen near Punmu on Friday morning, after walking 60km in up to 40C, he was unconscious. He died a short time later in Punmu medical clinic.

Mr Sykes' death, and the rescue of a second British tourist at a remote beach north of Broome on the same day, have prompted calls for greater education about the dangers of outback travel.

Sgt David Hornsby, of Marble Bar police, said that if Mr Sykes had observed the golden rule of remote motoring and stayed with his car, he would have survived.

There were 80 litres of water in a tank fitted to the Toyota Hilux that was also equipped with a tent and tinned food.

There were enough supplies in the hired vehicle for Mr Sykes to have survived for more than a week, Sgt Hornsby said.

"What the hire car companies' responsibilities are - that's something I will be looking at as far as the investigation for the coroner goes," he said

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Reply By: stillthinkinaboutit - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:17

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:17

Makes you wonder doesn't it. Some people just dont have any common sense.

AnswerID: 40464

Reply By: John - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:21

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:21

Unreal what went through his mind, It leaves me dumbfounded.

AnswerID: 40465

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:28

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:28

As lots said before, 1 x $300 EIPRB and he would be at home throwing a leg over the neighbours wife...

AnswerID: 40466

Follow Up By: Member - AndrewPatrol - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:23

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:23

he would have died then too, after the hubby caught him

FollowupID: 258065

Follow Up By: Member - Des Lexik(SA) - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:29

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:29

But I know which way I'd rather go and it wouldn't be in the dessertne cede malis

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 16:40

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 16:40

I agree!

FollowupID: 303135

Reply By: Bazza - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:47

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 13:47

G'day,
In my opinon .......... you car'nt legislate against stupidity, but in the current climate of OH&S and public liability, the lease company will need to add to their lease clause "that it is the responcibily of the hirer to inform the lease company of the intended use / location of any hired 4WD". Once having done this the lease company will instruct the hirer on the risks and minimum requirements on traveling in remote locations. This will not solve the issue, but it will put the responcibilty back on the hirer, as it should be. After that .... "let the courpse's fall where they may". IMHO
Regards,
Bazza.

AnswerID: 40467

Reply By: equinox - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:04

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:04

I dont think you can make the hire car companies responsible. It has nothing to do with them. It is up to each individual to be responsible for their own actions.

It's amazing how much international press each of these "Outback" disaster stories gets. For instance this story got to number two story on CNN. The international community seems to thrive on hearing of stories of the Australian desert. If any good comes out of this tragedy it will be that it will bring more tourists from overseas to see if they can try their luck in the desert.

This can only be good for the Australian economy.

Cheers

Equinox

AnswerID: 40468

Reply By: Member - Alan- Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:12

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:12

It's easy to be critical of those who make what to us is a basic error, but back in Europe and Britain most people never ever have to face or make decisions as to whether or not to walk or stay when a vehicle breaks down.
In the UK if you breakdown on a motorway, the police patrols arrange a tow within a few minutes, off to the nearest service area, as they feel that vehicles left on the side of high speed roads are a danger to other road users.
In WA, cars have been known to stay on the so called freeway for weeks before the law takes any notice! A few years ago, after a week or so they checked an abandoned car on the Mitchell Freeway, and because of the stink found a body in the boot!
After that they said that in future vehicles would be towed off straight away, but I've noticed cars left around for days since, so it must have been too hard for them.
There was the German tourist earlier in the year who got stuck on the CSR and was rescued by 2 others in a Td5 Discovery (had to get that in).
He had plenty of beer but that was it, he believed that a rescue service would just come along in half an hour or so, as they would on an autobahn in Germany.
The hire companies should definitely leave literature in all vehicles stressing the dangers of the outback, also advise what to do in certain circumstances, fit vehicles with tracking devices and basic gear to extract themselves, like shovels.
In the end it's down to the individuals own common sense to use the provided info. you can't legistlate to protect everybody from everything, although in the nanny state we live in, they certainly seem to be trying!

AnswerID: 40470

Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:10

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:10

Acctually it was Rangerover that come along.

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Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:01

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:01

Goran, I've just had a long chat with one of the men that rescued him.
The story is that he and a mate had set out in a near new Discovery Td5 to do just part of the CSR.
About 3 days out they believed that because of the conditions they were better off going off the CSR and heading towards another track (Could be called the Talawan Track, sounds like that anyway) rather than going back over their tracks, and they found this bloke bogged on Lake Disappointment in a Toyota hired from Mauri. He hadn't seen a sole in5 days but believed someone would come along.
He had a little water, plenty of beer and some potato chips, and no rescue gear. The 2 men (I won't give any names) had a sat. phone as well as EPIRB, gps etc.and other equip. so contacted the police.
The police advised them to leave the tourist where he was and they would carry out the rescue. They couldn't get there! So they commandeered a helicopter from a station and flew for 2 hours to pick him up. Great stuff, except the helicopter was only a small one used purely for station work and didn't have enopugh fuel to get back!
They then had to get fuel trucked out to the nearest possible point on the Talawan Track before they could complete the mission.
To describe the tourist as naive or stupid is being polite.
The travellers who rescued him had their own problem as the Disco. was acting strangely requiring large amounts of revs and stopping altogether on the way up dunes. Again the sat. phone came into it's own and they contatcetd Barbagallo in Perth and after much talking of the prob. it was decided they should check a hose between the turbo and intercooler. It turned out to be the culprit as it was collapsing and cutting off the air under heavy use!
The hire company were astonished and disappointed that one of their vehicles was in such inaccessible country awaiting rescue, and it cost them a fortune to get it out.
That's it. Be prepared is the moral of the story and you can't help idiots by legistlating.Or putting loads of gear in the vehicle. Or educating. Or putting bloody signs up everywhere.
You can only advise and hope!

FollowupID: 258081

Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:02

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:02

I agree with you 100%. By the way this bloke was 3 days behind us.....i think we missed him at the lake Dissapointment only because it was too wet to continue down the track where he was. This was at the lake lookout track. Lucky for him this blokes persisted, otherwise he would ba another statistic.

FollowupID: 258086

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:38

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 14:38

Interesting thoughts.

I think it IS upto the hire co to say something, this is peoples lives here..

I also dont think handing them a booklet is the go, they will just throw it in the glovebox.

I think they should all be given 1 days actual driver training, and instruction. Its not that hard to ensure that these people come back. Its probably not viable to do $$ wise, cause $$ are more important than life. Always have and will be.

Also EPIRB's are a MUST also with training on their use. Probably also a HF with training.

You can see by the story above on the German with a dead roo on the roofrack bootload full of grog, his thinking.. 1000's of others probably think the same.

Dont they think the fact they have been driving for 8 hrs and seen nobody that its a little strange, or that there are No recovery services, too late then, but still....

Then again Im not always right..

YMMV.

AnswerID: 40472

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:06

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:06

truckster
the only problem with the hire companies giving iut advise is that most of their staff ,know as little about outback travell and 4wd vehicles as the people that they hire the cars to.plus the high turn over of staff in these companies would make it difficult to maintain a level of education of the staff, we have to sit a training course for just about every bit of equipment we use now days so to hire a 4b you should have to produce a training certificate or sit a traing course before you can hire them
jmo
regards Bruce

FollowupID: 258077

Reply By: Murfa - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 15:13

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 15:13

Hey guy's,
I realise how some of you could blame the hire companies, but what ever happened to you are responsible for your own actions. I worked up in Harvey Bay last year and the back packers resort I worked for oalso owned a hire 4wd company. I think it is up the hire company to supply HF radio's and Emergency beacons to there vehicles, true. But when we were teaching the tourist about vehicle safety and human safelty should the worst happen, our company supplied them with manuals 2 days before the trip in 6 different languages, 3 videos, actually showed them basic recovery techniques vehicle on vehicle, and picture displays. I know this is frazer we are talking about, but in any abndon situation, there are still the basic rules to follow. I think if every company could supply this basic education, then 4WD would be safer for everyone. They need to respect our vast land when they come over here as much as we fellow 4WD respect there land. I think the public liability is getting out of hand, people need to use common sense in this day and age, and realize that you take responsabiltiy for you actions. I'm sorry to here that the tourists died in the out back, after abandoning there vehicle, but hey he had enough food and water and shelter rationed effectively to last him up to 1.5 weeks. Surely he realized he had a beter chance with tent, 80ltrs of water and tined food then trying to walk it......I don't mean top sound cruel, but to many people are blaming and sueing people because they didn't lift there foot over a step and tripped, ran in front of a movin g car and got injured - I mean please all of us are paying for it in the end because people theses days are junping at the opertunity to make a quick buck and blame somebody else for there clumsyness or (stupidity).....Sorry to all of you ho disagree, but I had to voice an opinion on this one.

AnswerID: 40473

Reply By: Andrew - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:33

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:33

I think I gotta agree with Allan on this one.

Common sense is only common if you are in your safety zone (sic)
Most of the overseas tourists we have spoken to in our travels had no concept of just how big and hot and dry this beatiful place of ours is, even though they had done homework before committing their hard earned money to the trip.

Perhaps we have forgotten the awe when we first experienced this great land.We cannot expect overseas tourists to acquire our knowledge by osmosis when they land here.

I know of plenty of instances where hire companies don't explain about free wheeling hubs for instance. These might be common in Oz and perhaps the US but not in Europe. This is supposed to be what happened to the Germans at Lake Eyre South. They selected 4X but the hubs were unlocked.

Presented a bit of driver training in my time as well and with my background as a tradesman I kept getting reminded that just because I understood what that widget was it didn't mean the students did even when I called it by name.

Anyway all food for thought, there is probably a middle ground but I guess that means you have to know where both ends are.

regards

A

AnswerID: 40476

Reply By: ross - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:44

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 16:44

I was keen to know how he got stuck in the 1st place.I bet he still had 40 lbs in the tyres

AnswerID: 40479

Reply By: Member -BJ (Sydney) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:04

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:04

A friend went to England for work & in his free time said he was driving 200k to see something or other & the locals said he was mad we don't go that far for holidays whereas some of us drive that far to go to work each day , so you can see why they get into trouble when they come here for holidays. You can show them all the videos & manuals you like. Our world is so different to theirs they just don't understand the size of OZ.Regards Bob
Where to next

AnswerID: 40481

Follow Up By: Coops (Pilbara) - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:02

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:02

met a pommy barmaid sheila and asked her about a village which turned out to be 20 km's away from her home.
"Ever been there"
"No way - that's a holiday".

Geez Louise - what a way to liveAllyn
Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.

FollowupID: 258118

Reply By: Goran - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:20

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:20

You can't blame car hire companies for this sort of stuff. Even members of our indigenous population perish out there from time to time for the same reason as this poor bloke did. Lack of common sense, research and preparation.

AnswerID: 40484

Reply By: Dave from Fraser Coast 4WD Club - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:32

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 17:32

I hire 4bys (from Hervey Bay) all the time for Fraser and much further. I don't have to sit thru the briefings and videos that the backpackers do, thankfully.

I think that I am yet to see a group of backpackers actualy pay any attention to the briefings, read the suggested itinerary or listen as they get their instructions. Most groups seem to designate one person to drive and the rest of them to drink, therefore the rest believe that they don't have to pay any attention.

I know that these are very different situations, but the same premise applies. You can't protect people from their own stupidity. Find me a guidebook of the Desert that doesn't say that the most important thing to do is to stay with your vehicle.

If this tragedy is being marketed O/S and leads more to Australia, I only hope that they also arrive a little more wary of how unforgiving the Australian continent is.

My 2c

AnswerID: 40486

Reply By: Member - Jack - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:02

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:02

The one thng we know about common sense is .. that it is not common.

JackNo trees were harmed in the making or sending of this message.
However a great number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

AnswerID: 40488

Reply By: Member - Les & Clare (SW WA) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:36

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:36

It seems to me that the problem was caused by a combinations of things such as no experience, insufficient research into the conditions etc, lack of common sense and to be perfectly honest no damm brains.
Why should 4WD hire companies have to foot the bill for someones own stupidity?
Personally i think we need to get away from this culture where people are always looking to blame someone else and/or sue the pants off someone if something goes wrong due to their own actions. Thats why all our insurances have gone through the roof because its to easy for someone to sue for an act caused by their own stupidity or lack of brains. People need to understand that they and they alone are responsible for their own actions and if they stuff up and something happens to them then bad luck. They should accept that its their own fault and take responsibility for it.
Having said that, i'm in favour of 4WD hire companies providing one days training to inexperienced and/or overseas tourists before they are allowed to hire a 4WD. They should have to provide route details etc and the cost of all this should be charged to the hirer. In addition they should be made to sign an agreement that says something like: "i/we accept that by going off road and traveling in remote dessert tracks and regions in Australia that my life may be at risk and i/we take fully responsibilty for whatever happens"

Just my two bobs worth.

Les
Have beast - will travel!

AnswerID: 40489

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:57

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 18:57

" People need to understand that they and they alone are responsible for their own actions and if they stuff up and something happens to them then bad luck..."

Bad Luck? Oh well, Im bogged, I'll just sit here and die...?

FollowupID: 258080

Reply By: Member - Les & Clare (SW WA) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:14

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:14

Okay i accept the use of the words "bad luck" may have been the wronng choice of words here. What i was trying to say was that people need to take full responsibilty for their own actions and accept that if they make a error of judgement then whatever happens as a result of their error of judgement is their own fault.

Would you have left your 4WD with 80L water and food and starting walking like he did?Have beast - will travel!

AnswerID: 40492

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:19

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 19:19

No, but I've done driver training with 2 clubs, been round 4wds most of my life, personally ridden parts of the outback on a bike, and realize the differences in the Aussie Outback to England/Germany etc ... There IS nothing for hours sometimes. People dont always travel the 'main' tracks...

He probably thought nobody would find him, or pass for days.. Took his chances, and lost..

It happens.. Its happened in the past, it will happen again.

There is more chance of his family winning a legal case now since HE WASNT told, or trained in anyway. No EPIRB, Communications were supplied... I'd say going by the way things are in court now, he would win hands down!

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Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:08

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:08

Well, i heard on the news he was offered sat phone and epirb and he refused. If this is correct it is his bad luck. It is like going to North pole wearing shorts and singlet.

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Reply By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:12

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:12

I think that we need to have some sympathy for the guy who died. Most likely he wasn't a stupid Wally - he was just inexperienced. I could imagine the explorpom forum saying how dopey an Aussie bloke was for walking down a certain road in a certain area at night and him getting killed. A Pommy man would have no idea what it's like to walk in 40 degree heat over sand for any distance - poor bugger.

Ultimately we are responsible for our own actions - I agree with that premise. We also have a right to try and make things safer for visitors to our shores. Hire car companies have a responsibility to educate people. Maybe that should be forced to have eg, 50 litres of water in fourwheel drives and an emergency proceedures folder in the car that details what to do in an emergency. They could also offer EPIRB's for hire too.

And do you know what is really dopey - some people still smoke and drink then drive!!

AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

AnswerID: 40493

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:28

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 20:28

"And do you know what is really dopey - some people still smoke and drink then drive!! "

How true that is...

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Reply By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 21:46

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 21:46

I have just finished reading Sarah Murgatroyd's book, "The Dig Tree" Is a fantastic read about the Burke and Wills expedition and makes me super keen to go and visit the area but will have to wait until September next year. Thanks Bob for the recommendation!

Near the end of the book she is summing up about the problems in the planning of the Burke and Wills expedition and it is worth posting this as it can be a window for us into what might have happened with this tourist.

I will quote from Page 339 of her book:
"Today the expedition stands in a very different light. The venture was a product of a wealthy and complacent colony. It belonged to a peculiarly British tradition - one that valued breeding, and the courage to have a go, above ability and experience. With its unshakeable faith in military training, the empire had been dispatchiing legions of improbable explorers to unsuitable destinations for decades. It was a practice that saw soldiers delivered to the Arctic without learning to ski and naval officers consigned to the Sahara in full dress uniform. Armed with only a commanding gaze and an inflated sense of their own importance, they blundered around and died miserable deaths from nothing more glamourous that a dose of scurvey, a bout of tropical fever or a well placed spear. Given the history of British and early Australian Exploration, it was not surprising that the Victorian Expedition was, at times, a fiasco."

For me this was really an insight that we cannot expect every traveller to have an understanding of what our harsh interior is really like. How hot, how barren, how isolated, how threatening and how beautiful.

Andrew

PS - The book is a ripper if you want to get someone a pressie for ChristmasMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

AnswerID: 40497

Follow Up By: Member - Des Lexik(SA) - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:43

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:43

I can endorse that Andrew. I just finished the book last Friday and it is a good and interesting read.ne cede malis

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Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:12

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:12

Hi Andrew,

Haven't read this book but will keep an eye out for it. Sarah Murgatroyd's comments lend themselves very well to Kieren Kelly's comments expressed in his book "Tanami". Throughout the book he refers to Gregory as Australia's best explorer. Gregory of course, traversed vast tracks of WA and NT deserts, the Kimberley and other remote parts of the country. Unlike most of his exploring peers, he never lost man, never had to destroy a beast for lack of food or water, surveyed, mapped and opened up vast tracks of the countryside and always, always carried out his explorations with plenty left in reserve. Members of his party were selected on ability, not pedigree and also in contrast to his peers, Gregory tolerated no class distinction on his explorations. Everyone ate together, had the same food and rations and were treated as equals. In his treatment of Aboriginals, Gregory was way before his time.

Why does KK think Gregory was so successful where so many others weren't??? In short, he was a born in Australia and grew up in the bush. His skills as a bushman, surveyor, communicator, leader and organiser etc were honed by his (the Australian) environment from the cradle. In other words, he instinctively knew things that English explorers couldn't possibly have adequately known or understood.

I think as far as our hapless English tourist, perhaps we Aussies and keen outback travellers tend to forget just how much our understanding of the outback is innate and/or instinctive. Even those Aussies who never leave the city can't escape the mystique of the great Aussie outback. It is after all part of us, part of being Australian...just like Bondi beach, the Opera House, Ayers Rock and countless other Aussie icons. Its one thing for a foreign visitor to read a lonely planets guidebook or something, but can they truly comprehend what the outback is or what is involved in outback travel until they venture out there and in some cases, sadly a little too far!

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog

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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 18:56

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 18:56

Burke and Wills were 'racing' against Stuart to try and be the first to traverse the continent. The aim was for us Victorians to annex some land up north so that we could have a northern port somewhere up in the Gulf and also the Telegraph line. Burke did no travel lightly and spent a long time transporting worthless gear northwards. "Were twelve sets of dandruff brushes and four enema kits really necessary. There were six tonnes of firewood, 200kg of medications for the camels and horses and enough ammunition to win a small war. Luxuries were well catered for: a large bathtub, an oak and cedar table with two oak stools and forty-five yards of gossamer for fly veils" Sarah Murgatroyd.

The "rescue missions" for Burke covered 11000 km through harsh terrain without loss of life. The Burke thing was also pretty dopey as they did it in summer.

Agree that the connection with our land is 'Spritual'. Just today I was outside eating cherries and boysenberries from our garden lamenting that fewer and fewer children with have these sort of delights. I think that there is a peace and tranquility that comes from touching nature that many people in the cities don't realise they are missing. How can anyone be refreshed by going to shops and cities for a holiday!

Also it is fantastic to read about our pioneers and explorers before going to a region. Your appreciation is so much greater. Anyone going to Pamula or Eden or Merimbula should read 'Killers of Eden' and go to Kiah inlet and look at the old whaling station. Tis beautiful really.

Cheers

AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

FollowupID: 303152

Follow Up By: Member - Des Lexik(SA) - Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 00:02

Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 00:02

Melissa, have you read Kieren Kellys book "Hard country Hard Men" in the footsteps of Gregory. That was also good readingne cede malis

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Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 11:51

Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 11:51

Hi Des,

Haven't read it yet but I put the book on my Christmas list after reading KK's Tanami so hopefully I'll be turning the pages in a couple of weeks. My husband and I share an insatiable appetite for reading about our early (and modern day) explorers and pioneers and are slowly building a nice library of these type of books. As Andrew said above, knowing something of the history and characters of a place before you visit it adds so much to the experience.

BTW, a great source of books on Australiana, history, bush life, explorers & prospectors is Hesperian Press. They have a huge range of books, most of which you won't find in any bookshop.

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog

FollowupID: 303204

Reply By: Member - Eric- Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 22:10

Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003 at 22:10

I just spent some time on a bare boat charter , aswered 100 questions , and had a full breaf on and off the boat , 100% of the boats that go out come back , why cant the same rule apply for 4x4 hire Co . Venus Bay

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Reply By: ntfisherman - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:46

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:46

Hi out there, my life is my responsibility. I travel in remote Aus as a matter of course with my work. Safety is paramount. When my boat caught fire in an instant and subsequently sank last year, we swam for 32.5 hours and rescued ourselves. I had on board all safety gear, epirb, sat phone etc. Not much help when it all hits the fan. What saved us was an evacool with lots of water inside and great hand holds. A lot of knowledge of navigation, the sun, stars and a watch kept us tracking toward land. Understanding the tides also helped. When we hit land we were still 15 kays from the closest help. Survival is based on experience, a cool head and a determination to live. We promote this great land to all and sundry, but we neglect to inform people of the real dangers out there. You can't really blame the tour'os for disasterous mistakes. The search for the dollar overrides responsibility. IMO Cheers

AnswerID: 40513

Reply By: Dutchman - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 10:10

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 10:10

Hi out there,

As a European I’ve just experienced renting a 4x4 hilux camper. It comes standard with epirb, but because I‘ll be travelling to remote area’s I ‘ve asked the hire company whether it would be possible to rent a radio or sat phone as an extra safeguard and because your able to receive advice by radio or phone. To my astonishment renting either was not possible. I‘ll try and rent either of these in another way, but if you aren’t able to rent a phone or radio through your hire company this could imply to a non experienced European – such as myself - that such “extra” devices aren’t necessary. Of course people are responsible for their own acts, but hire companies aren’t very helpfull either.

Gr. Marc

AnswerID: 40527

Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:21

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:21

Good to hear a non-Australian perspective. I have to agree with you...If a 4WD hire company can't supply or organise through a third party for the supply of a radio or satphone, what kind of message is this sending! Marc, for your information, there are plenty of communication hire places throughout Australia that will be able to set you up with whatever you need. Just do a internet search or post a specific request for info on this forum to help locate various suppliers.

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog

FollowupID: 303141

Reply By: Member - Bob - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:40

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:40

I was in QLD a few weeks back and I vaguely remeber reading an information booklet designed for OS tourist and I think it did mention outback travel in particular. This was a government publication, and looked as if it was available to all inbound tourists. I think I came across it in a hotel, someone may have more information about it. Bob

AnswerID: 40535

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:01

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 17:01

The thing with booklets, they would more than likely be thrown in the glove box and ignored.. Sit them down and force them to listen, you have done your best.

FollowupID: 303139

Follow Up By: Brian - Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 14:34

Friday, Dec 19, 2003 at 14:34

The Bare Boat charter test sounds the go!!! (from post above)
Brian

FollowupID: 303213

Reply By: Member - Bob - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:55

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:55

Talking to a friend last night who runs a major Australian tourist attraction. His institution was sued by a visitor from the UK who alleged that she slipped and hurt herself, and claimed and got $80,000. He subsequently heard that she did the same stunt to two other institutions during her two week visit to our fair shores, and received substantial settlements from them too.
We have gone litigation mad, and in the case of the guy who died it was all his fault, and not one scrap of blame should be placed on the vehicle hirer.Bob

AnswerID: 40536

Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:54

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:54

David should right into his program something that bans you from the forum if you are a lawyer!! On reflection, it might be a lawyers fault that the guy died.

Bye the way....

A lawyer is standing in a long line at the box office. Suddenly, he feels a pair of hands kneading his shoulders, back, and neck. The lawyer turns around.
"What the hell do you think you're doing?"
"I'm a chiropractor, and I'm just keeping in practice while I'm waiting in line."
"Well, I'm a lawyer, but you don't see me screwing the guy in front of me, do you?"

(For any lawyers out there, this is a joke and any similarity to anyone dead or alive was purely coincidental).My Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:58

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 13:58

Can't get my grammar right - should have rit write.My Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

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Follow Up By: Brad - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 15:56

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 15:56

Generally speaking a plaintiff who gets a settlement of $100,000 or less ends up with about 10% of the sum, their legal team gets about 90%. So if the tourist 'got' $80,000 three times, she actually probably received about $24,000, and her legal team made about $216,000...nice work if you can get it.

....which reminds me about " what is the difference between a catfish and a lawyer ?.......one's a bottom dwelling scum sucker and the other is a fish". :-))

And our taxes are going to the universities to train more :-((

Regards,
Brad.

FollowupID: 303126

Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 16:35

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 16:35

What's the difference between a rooster and a lawyer? When a rooster wakes up in the morning its first instinct is to cluck defiance......Bob

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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 19:00

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 19:00

Bob

I think that everyone will think that I am a Wally because.....I DON"T GET IT!!

(Debating whether or not to say this is Jen!)

SomeoneMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

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Follow Up By: Brad - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 20:40

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 20:40

...whereas the lawyer wants to '...uck de clients'

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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 20:46

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 20:46

Ha ha ha ha ha lol lol lol
Pretty slow I am!!
Thanks Brad!!
(though I am sure you had to think about it for a long time)My Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

FollowupID: 303158

Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 22:07

Thursday, Dec 18, 2003 at 22:07

Some of my best friends are lawyers :-)Bob

FollowupID: 303160

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