Insurance - Why is it so hard?

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 02:03
ThreadID: 9383 Views:4346 Replies:12 FollowUps:23
This Thread has been Archived
Called TCIS with some questions today, I said I just want to be covered everywhere, and with my mods, with my 65% NCB, no accidents, no fines, no smiling, no nothing, and dont want to mortgage the world to pay for it, she laughed, but I was serious...

Why is there so much bull bleep fine print to go through, that you can interpret in anyway you seem fit, but they will twist it to suit them...?

With my insurance I have the option of :-

Allianz http://www.allianz.com.au/internet/allianz.nsf/docs/INPIMO+Comprehensive
Market Value $27,751
Premium $650ish

or

Unique Car Insurance http://www.uniquecar.com.au/
Agreed Value $25,000 (They are backed by Lloyds of London.) This requires a black wire alarm to be fitted...
Premium $700ish + Alarm $600 - $900

DGA Insurance, the ARB one,
http://www.dgainsurance.com.au/4wd/frame.htm
Premium $1300!!!!!! DOUBLE THE ALLIANZ!
Market Value, but didnt bother asking when they gave me the quote price..

Which would you go for, the price difference is only about $60 allianz cheaper.

FYI, according to TCIS, CGU will only do 1inch lifts now.

and No Willem, I'm not going to do no insurance ;)~
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Reply By: Member - Luxoluk - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 08:21

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 08:21
Hi Truckster

May well you ask, "Why is there so much bull bleep fine print to go through?" I suppose that could be on account that there are so many bull bleep fine print type people out there?? Everything has a meaning in these contracts and agreements just that most of the community has no idea of the legal meanings...including me.

AAMI: $40,500 covered for $670. Hope I never need to call upon it!!

CheersButcher Country Track
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Follow Up By: Member - Shawn - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 13:23

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 13:23
G'day Luxo,
I hope you don't have to call them. My elderly mother did and she is still calling.
Cheers
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Reply By: Hatcher - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 08:46

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 08:46
Hey Truckster,

I'm surprised at the quote from DGA. I just received my renewal notice from them last night, $675 for a 2000 100 series GXL @ market value. Don't know what market value is, I'll be contacting them about that but it has to be somewhere around $30K? And half way down the page clearly displayed is a statement that this policy covers me "on and off road... no restrictions"... I must look at the fine print though.

Hammer them again for a more realistic price!
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 09:09

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 09:09
Hey Truxter-off topic
Check out ebay 4wd parts 4 sale - re GQ Kaymar rear bar :-)wheredayathinkwer mike?
AnswerID: 41308

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:03

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:03
I must be blind..
got an item #?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 21:32

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 21:32
Is it still there ??? or Gone???
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:30

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:30
Found it, it was in the way overpriced for what it is section

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2451617806&category=30862

and $650 and not met reserve LMAO!
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Reply By: jemima puddle duck - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:08

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:08
gday truckster.
when we went to cgu for the patrol a couple of months ago i asked them about the lift.
they said didnt matter what size lift it was so long as its legally road worthy.pretty sure you can lift gq 3inch without having to modify anything so 3 inch legal lift.
also asked where in policy it mentions lift kits ect.and it all goes under keeping vehicle in road worthy condition.they cant knock back a claim if your vehicle is unroadworthy(eg you run up someones ass because you were not watching.your number plate light isnt working so therefor your car is legally unroadworthy but that light would not have caused the accident) but if that perticular unroadwrthy item caused the accident then they can knock the claim.you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

AnswerID: 41317

Reply By: rolande- Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:26

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:26
If you want the benefits of living in the big city, then you have to pay for them!
Just as we supposedly have to pay more for fuel in the sticks. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and buy a Hyundai Excel. Do you really need a snorkel, big lift kit, super swampers in North Balwyn to drive the kids down to the shops.
Your decision? Fine, then pay the insurance to match, us hicks out bush laugh all the way to the bank.
AnswerID: 41321

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:10

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:10
Are you on Drugs or something?

Im not complaining about the price, I was asking peoples opinion on Market V Agreed and what they thought..

Yes I do need a snorkel, Yes I do need a lift kit, yes I would love swampers, but who has swampers?
Who lives in Nth Balwyn?

Ahhhhhhhhhhh........ So your a so called wannabebleepry bumpkin, that thinks cause we live in the semi rural area (yes I do, over the back fence are cows[oops i'll help you remove your foot now]) that we dont use our 4wd more than 1ce a month? LMAO.. ahhhhhhhhh Your dad isnt called Harold Scruby is he?
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Follow Up By: rolande- Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:43

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:43
Snide, sarchastic and stupid are not the sole realm of yourself when replying to others posts!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:50

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:50
Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Reply By: doublemeter - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:52

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:52
Howdy Truckster,
I did a bit of shopping around last year to obtain a reasonable insurance for my Cruiser and found this site: www.budgetdirect.com.au
Have a look, they will give you an online quote and I have found them polite and knowledgeable on the phone.
Have a happy new year!

Doublemeter
........always been a Cruiser man
AnswerID: 41322

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:31

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:31
Id rather stick with the main stream insurers..

Theres cheap insurance and CHEAP insurance.. you want them to pay when you need it....

Thanks anyway.. Im not really complaining about the premium that they have given me..
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:05

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:05
Hey truckster,

Give Elders (Brisbane office) a call too. Very helpful and very clear.
AnswerID: 41323

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:46

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:46
Market or Agreed, I forgot to ask...
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:19

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:19
Agreed value $23k. $767 for Rating 2, 600 metres from Chadstone Shopping Center (High risk area), parked in driveway.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:11

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:11
They only do agreed if you have an assessment done on the vehicle now. $350 for that... CLowns.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:37

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:37
Must have changed in the last few months, mine is definitely agreed value. Will let you know what happens next renewal
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:13

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:13
Im more after the thoughts on Market V Agreed

They seem dodgey to me... Bimbo on the phone said to me, that if I have an accident the assessor would look at the car at the time of accident and value would go off of that, thats for Market OR Agreed... Am I missing something?
AnswerID: 41324

Follow Up By: landie - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:25

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:25
Hi Truckster...

Always go with agreed, you know what it is up front. The other thing to remember is that "market value" means for the stock standard vehicle, not the modifications, that is something you need to "agree".

Another thing to remember about insurance policies is that they are almost identical in meaning, and wording. Equate cheaper with more difficult claim process. There are regulations that now require all insurance providers to have simple worded product disclosure statements. If it is excluded, than it is excluded, if it doesn't say it is excluded, it isn't.

I would go with a main stream insurer everytime, despite cost.

On TCIS, they are no more than brokers, they are not underwriters and therefore they do not offer anything more in policy terms, than you could achieve yourself by going directly to the underwriter. They may be able to solicit a better price, however this has not been my experience on the two occassions I have spoken with them.

One final piece, as four-wheel drivers we often equate the cost of insurance, versus the risk of damage whilst out and about. However, if you live in or near a major city, the insurer will more place a much greater weighting on the risk of theft and this is reflected in the premium cost.

Good luck,
Landie

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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:15

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:15
Yeah, it's more a reflection of the damage a 4WD will do to other vehicles than the damage to the policyholders vehicle.
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Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:56

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:56
I'd go agreed everytime. You know up front what it's insured for and what you are owed in case of a mishap.

Market value is just opening up another path for them to pay out less. Then which market are they using to identify the market value? For example, the national average market value for your Patrol maybe less than the market value for say Melbourne or Sydney to replace it.

I also very much doubt that within the period of a 12 month policy, the market value of many vehicles will shoot upwards and exceed agreed values.

Mate ... it has all become too hard.
AnswerID: 41354

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:18

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:18
Market value is just opening up another path for them to pay out less

Thats exactly my point!! Glad I wasnt just melting in the 39 degree heat today! Thanks Savvas...
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Follow Up By: Rojac - Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 06:21

Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 06:21
For market value they use the "Red Book" as a guide, but looking at the cost vs age its fairley low.......what else would you expect from the robbing hood industry.
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Reply By: Martyn (WA) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 16:16

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 16:16
T-Man,
Bit testy there, good to see you finishing the year on a good note, I knew you only needed an Excel for what you do, (titter, titter).
I've just taken all my insurances from TCIS the prices where getting out of hand, I've got an agree value on my GU with all the accessories accounted for and I was still sub $600 premium, I'm with SGIO, I had a few questions the main sticking point was driving on competition circuits like our club gymkhana, I think I sorted that out. I've now changed everything over to SGIO including the camper trailer which is also an agree value. The Rangie I went with market value seeing as it was more than I paid for it, again listed accessories separately, if I insure the house and contents with SGIO as well you get a further discount of about 5% I think, it was either that or 10%. I have the same sort of conditions as yourself, 3 points for being naughty and that's it, I'm 40+ only driver all that good stuff.
TCIS have gone to far out there for me, they had a good reputation for payouts etc but at a cost, overall I think I saved myself over $600 all up. I haven't had to claim as yet, the guy i spoke to at SGIO also sent me a laymans guide to what was written in size 2 font, that was useful, there was a rumour that they picked the repairer and got vehicles fixed as a job lot that way it was cheaper, I've checked this out and have it in writing that this isn't the case I can choose my SGIO approved repairer.
Insuring my GQ with TCIS with an agreed value was a nightmare, to and fro discussing values of accessories etc Ended up the accesory value was greater than the vehicle market value or agreed value, getting an agreed value on an "older" vehicle is a lot more difficult, photos and a lot of red tape had to be entered into to get anywhere. It was easier to change company.
These are my experiences and I'm not affiliated to SGIO as you more than likely know, hope something helps. Keep the shiny side up
AnswerID: 41356

Follow Up By: landie - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:14

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:14
To clarify a common mis-understood point. TCIS have nothing to do with pay-outs, they are a broker, not an underwriter. You can't take out insurance with TCIS, they only arrange it for you......
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Follow Up By: Martyn (WA) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:56

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:56
Landie,
Sorry my wording wan't very good, you're correct of course, TCIS I assumed associated themselves with reputable Insurance companies that were easier to work with than small companies so getting payouts was easier, thanks for that point of clarification.Keep the shiny side up
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:21

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:21
Called Elders, http://insurance.elders.com.au/
Premium $600
Forgot to ask about agreed or market.

they will cover any legal Mods, and your covered anywhere according to the chick on phone.
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Follow Up By: troy - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:56

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 17:56
Forget what the chick on the phone said
Make sure you get it in writing what they will cover you for - and check the fine print. That is what fine print is for - loopholes for the insurance companies
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:33

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:33
I've got it in writing..........exactly as they said.

They do a lot of agricultural machinery insurance dealing with a lot of lesser educated farmers (NO OFFENCE INTENDED), and couldn't afford to try to hide behind the usual insurance B.S. that the other companies use. They are genuine straight shooters who have an honest appreciation of the usual mods that are required for outback travel (as required by a lot of farmers), and aren't fazed at all by lift kits, big tyres, etc...within reason of course.

If you check the archives a while ago I did exactly the same runaround that Bruce (Truckster) is now doing. Nearly opened up a doorway to my next-door-neighbours place bashing my head against the brick wall in my office......
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 21:12

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 21:12
Dont worry, check the archives, Im god of tellin people to get it in writing.

also gotta check the "agreed" value...

if it aint up to it, it looks like Unique Car Insurance is the go, the only other one with a decent agreed value, apart from DGA, but aint paying $1300!
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Follow Up By: SteveA - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 16:23

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 16:23
Truckster
and any other person looking for insurance. Send an email to this guy ifleming@elders.com.au (Booval Brisbane)
I deal with Ian directly and every question that I've asked either by email or directly he has always given me the answers that I wanted to hear.
With the debate over insurance over the last 12 months or so I have been cutting and pasting the questions and emailing to him and he has given great responses to them.
Oh yes and the more you cover yourself (contents, house etc)with elders the greater the discount.
All you can do is give him a go
Steve
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Reply By: Savvas - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:09

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:09
Truckster,

Have you tried Shannons?

I know they focus mainly on collectable vehicles, but their website says "vintage, classic, modified and sports vehicles as well as the day to day cars of motoring enthusiasts."

Yours is most definitely modified and we are all motoring enthusiasts, just with a very specific interest in motoring.

I have a mate that had a '67 Mustang insured with them and had to make an accident claim and he reckons they are extremely good.

Good luck and have a great New Year buddy!
AnswerID: 41409

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 10:38

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 10:38
Was with them years ago with that bleep box Ducati I had..

They wont touch 4b's.
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FollowupID: 303957

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