Pinging Jackaroo

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:36
ThreadID: 9402 Views:3361 Replies:10 FollowUps:12
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I have a 2000 auto petrol Jackaroo - Been pinging for 40,000 - has done 130,000 - Have tried everything via dealer including carbon clean (dealer has another name) and in car injectror service.
Only thing that stops it is premium fuel or additive - Both too expensive - Anything I can do?
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Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:46

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:46
I had that with my Monterey. It started at about 50000km.

Dealer did an off car injector clean at the 60000km service and it has been fine since. They told me not to bother with an on car injector clean as it will need to be done again sooner and may not be effective if the injectors are very dirty.

Am now putting in an injector cleaner every 5000kms to keep it clean.

AnswerID: 41349

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:01

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:01
Yep, on car injector clean was a waste for me. I had them cleaned, a week later disaster struck and the top end had to be stripped down. The injectors were still clagged up to buggery. Only one way to clean the blighters and thats off the vehicle or replace with recon ones.I may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY
Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 303889

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:55

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 15:55
earplugs? cheap and re-usableLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
AnswerID: 41352

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:03

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:03
Since when has a hole in the piston been cheap.I may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY
Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 303890

Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:46

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 18:46
had a mazda Bravo that did the same
and the dealer was not able to do anything about it. Even a customer relations guy from Mazda came over to look at it.....alll they would do is give me a written warranty by guaranteeing the engine for the life of the vehicle while I am the owner.

Any how after a long drawn out battle of words and my independant technical analysis (my expense $670) and as i wasnt able to get them to do any thing, and knowing it would wreck the engine sooner or later with a hole I conceded defeat and got rid of it.

Went out and got a real 4wdWow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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FollowupID: 303894

Reply By: Member - Nobby - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 19:07

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 19:07
My Jack. is coming up to 3yo in Feb. and I shouted myself an extra 3 years warranty. This cost $1200, but from the above, sounds like it might be well spent. My Jack has not missed a beat since new, but you never know.Jack at sleep
AnswerID: 41372

Reply By: AndrewX - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:35

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2003 at 22:35
VWR do you realise how serious pinging is - and what causes the noise? Basically it's the fuel/air mixture detonating so early that the explosion has spread in the combustion chamber before the piston has reached top dead centre. When an engine is operating correctly the plug fires before top dead centre and the explosion spreads in time to push the piston down after passing TDC. With pinging (also called pre ignition) the force is applied too early and if you can imagine the unhappy relationship between your pistons and the explosions you wouldn't think premium fuel or additives were too expensive. Others have already said, quite correctly, that it can result in a holed piston. Seems like it might be a common problem with Holden as many years ago I had an HQ which did it a lot - engine replaced at 70,000 miles though. Try fiddling with the timing - retard it (make it fire later) and get onto that premium fuel OR get a Prado or Cruiser - they cost more but they don't suffer from such very basic problems. By the way the dealer saw you coming - there's no way that decarbonising was necessary at such low mileage. Hope he didn't charge too much!
AnswerID: 41389

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:29

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:29
If its a timing thing then how does premium or additives help? wONT IT STILL PRE-IGNITE?Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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FollowupID: 303943

Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:32

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:32
Ahh the old Holden 202. I didn't mind them, really easy to work on.

I beg to differ with the Toyos not suffering such very basic problems. I know 3 that do, A 100 series 4.5, and 2 90 series Prado V6 GXL, all autos. Have also been in a Pajero 3.5 that does the same.

A clagged injector is exactly that no matter whos engine it's installed on. Our fuel quality for standard unleaded simply isn't upto the Japanese standards, which leads to the problems we get in these engines.

The only fuels available in Oz that even starts to approach the Japanese is the 98 fuels like Shell Optimax, BP Ultimate and Mobil Synergy 8000.
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FollowupID: 303944

Follow Up By: VWR - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 11:32

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 11:32
Thank you so much everyone - I have decided to go to premium ULP - I can get it in Sydney for 5c - 7c extra a litre - Average fill = 50L so it is $3.50 per fill.
Since the injector clean and whatever else they have done to my car I have noticed it flies and the pinging has reduced.
Kilometres per Litre over last 50 fills = 5.65
Kilometres per fill since above (6 fills only) = 5.96
35,000 K per annum = 6,195 old rate x $0.87 = $5,390
35,000 K per annum = 5,872 new rate x $0.87 = $5,109
= $281 per annum
I am now worried about a hole in the piston and am assuming I will receive a 5% improvement in fuel economy for premium ULP so equation would be
35,000 x 6.25 K per Litre = 5,600 Litres x $0.94 = $5,264
As well as that I love the way the thing performs with Premium ULP
Again my sincere thanks to all of you.

P.S. - My rear door has started squeaking terribly - I am jamming a rug under it to stop the noise, would new hinges fix it? Can a Holden dealer cope with that one?

Does anyone know a decent reasonably priced non Holden Dealer in Sydney NW or W or thereabouts who can service these things. I am sick of the constant stuff ups and obvious lack of knowledge by GMH re these global vehicles - Boy have they undersold them in Aust.
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FollowupID: 303960

Reply By: desray - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 01:50

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 01:50
VWR have a look here, http://www.prozone.com.au/pro/promain.htm ..... Worth a try 90 day money back , sold at repco.
AnswerID: 41406

Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 08:28

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 08:28
Hi desray,

I've often wondered about this thing and whether it works. Looking at Prozone's own website though, there is a section that suggests it won't be of any benefit on a modern injected motor with O2 sensors, like the Jackaroo. It will need a modification to alter the reading of the O2 sensors to be of any benefit.

http://www.prozone.com.au/pro/electronic.htm

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FollowupID: 303950

Reply By: cozza - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 05:29

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 05:29
Gday VWR
I'm working out in Saudi and own an Isuzu Trooper. Same car as yours. A little bit older and 150,000 on the clock.
Exact same problem. Mate has same car with same problem.
Decided to switch oils. Regular change at 5000 km or less. Has made a hell of a difference. Am usingbleeps but I am not sure if you can get this oil in Oz? Mate did the same about 10,000 km ago and has noticed a big difference also. Doesn't sound like a diesel anymore!
Have seen a cutaway of the engine in the Isuzu dealers shop. The valve set up is an odd one.
Best of luck,
Cozza.
AnswerID: 41407

Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:23

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 07:23
Hi Cozza,

Just out of curiosity, what oil are you using and what is it's rating?

I'm also changing oils at 5000km and using a 5W-40 synthetic instead of Holden's recommended 20W-50.

It also seems to be that Holden is the only one recommending a 20W-50 or the Isuzu V6. In other markets around the world, Isuzu recommend a lighter oil for the engine.

Cheers,
Savvas
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FollowupID: 303942

Follow Up By: cozza - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:13

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:13
Hi Savvas.
Oil isbleeps (German) Super GT 20w-50w with additives. It isbleeps' flagship oil. Cheap as chips out here. Oz may be a different story if you can get it. Designed for engines driven hard and extreme weather conditions.
All the best,
Cozza.
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FollowupID: 303962

Reply By: cozza - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:16

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:16
Sorry Savvas. The website doesn't seem to like the oil brand name because of its close resemblance to the f word. I'll try again F---U---C---H(that's H)---s.
Hope this works!!
AnswerID: 41427

Follow Up By: Savvas - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:34

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:34
Cool ... I was wondering if you were serious about the isbleep's bit.

I have heard of that brand before, but not seen it much.
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FollowupID: 303965

Follow Up By: Tim - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:57

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:57
F----u---c---h----s is growing in popularity, been around for a while mainly doing mining and industrial lubricants, they've developed a bio degradable oil too!!!
Anyway they r a good mob, a net search should find them easily.
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FollowupID: 303966

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 15:29

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 15:29
We use many thousands of litres of their coolant at work...good stuffI may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY
Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 303972

Reply By: Tim - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:58

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 13:58
And its pronounced f---u---c---h---s as in CHOOKS not as in DUCKS!!!!!
AnswerID: 41434

Reply By: Savvas - Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 12:32

Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 12:32
VWR ... the hinges are adjustable. You need to take the trim cover off the back doors and where the hinges bolt to the door itself is the adjustment point. You lossen the bolts and then adjust the position of the door.

However, I'd suggest you find a good panel shop to fix it for you instead of the dealers unless of course the dealer has its own panel shop like some do.

Also, be very careful if you decide to do this yourself as those doors are really heavy. You will need one operator to hold the door while another loosens and tightens bolts again.
AnswerID: 41474

Reply By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 09:51

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 09:51
Hi VWR, Something i have found with the v6 jacks is that their fuel system is fairly sensitive to any restriction causing pressure and flow reduction, I personally believe that the fuel filter is too small in size and blocks enough to reduce flow fairly easily, I change the filter on mine every 10K because it is cheap and the same filter as v6 commodores, I find a noticeable improvement in performance and smoothness after i change it , and have recently decided that i will change the standard filter for a much larger ryco unit with the same sized barb fittings, although i will have to modify the mounting bracket to suit.
My Jack will only show slight hesitations and a slight power drop, no pinging is evident, But my Manager also has a 02 jack v6 and has been plauged by pinging problems since new, with the vehicle in and out of the dealers many times, no fix from them. I told him to change the filter and see how it goes, the next day problem solved !!!! I am also considering fitting an adjustable pressure regulator on the fuel rail to bring the base pressure up slightly, and see if this helps. Because the computers in these are self learning they will adjust the pulse width of the injectors to allow for the higher delivery pressure.
Also F_U_C_H_S supersyn 5W 50 fully synthetic oil is magic in these engines........

Sling in a new filter and see how it goes, will only cost $10 and 10 minutes..CheersMoo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)
AnswerID: 41794

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