Training babes in the way they should go

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 15:57
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After seeing the trouble Steve Irwin got himself into by the family welfare and other critics, it brought back memories of a parent I know who gave his baby from 4 months of age, beer. Now that child is 18 months old goes to the kitchen rubbish bin wanting to drink from his dad's bottles of leftovers. This isn't the only time I have known this to happen and I have seen the outcome. I am totally disgusted more about this than of Steve trusting or overfeeding his crock before the show, although it may have been an unwise decision at the time. This child now with the desired taste of grog may now have no hope in the future, from alcohol and other harder hits. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Reply By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 16:59

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 16:59
Hiya Jen

I guess as parents we all have dift methods of what's right and wrong for our kids. Steve Irwin's decision was at best unwise, that doesn't make him a bad parent and I don't think any of us should sit in judgement...as far as having a child drink beer at such a young age...I think that's probably silly, certainly from that young age..but again..that's their decision...and they'll have to deal with any probs should they arrise. I know that I hope like hell that I"m at least providing some sort of good grounding for my two...and I never fully appreciated how tough a job it was until I became a parent...last year at my parents 40th wedding aniv party I made a speech and praised them both on the way they raised my brother and I in a home full of the 3 L's - Love, Laughter and Learning..if I can do that for my kids then I think they'll be OK...as far as drinking beer goes....they both just look at a can and say "that's daddy's". I hope to be able to share great times with my kids..and that's what Alan and I are striving for.

now...how the hell do I convince a 2 yr old boy that using a potty is HEAPS better than nappies...so far today, I"ve had 3 changes of jocks, socks and tracky dacks..and 1 pair of full gumboots..!!...ahahahhaha....

Lyn [Mrs. Al]Life - Live it , Love it !





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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 18:55

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 18:55
Hi Lyn, I know exactly what you mean as a mum or parent, we do what we feel is right, and have felt the hard work on keeping our kids clear thinking and responsible. It is an extremely hard job when you feel the pressures from the other side of life, mainly from the who don't care enough. I should have said in the post that Steves decision was unwise "IN SOME PEOPLES EYES" at the time. Living in the bush we have placed our babys next to us while we milked cows, brushed horses and many other farmyard events, which could have been risky, but, we knew what temprament the animal had and could trust it. On the other hand we have had kids grow up within the age group of our kids who have been introduced to alcohol since very young, they are now braindead druggies or alcoholics and have a severely wrecked life. They have no homelife, as their parents, some who have split up, could not give a hoot to what they do. I am probably more saddened as I see our govts. not encouraging a stable family enviroment to bring solidity into society and yet they voice off about other useless issues. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:55

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:55
Lyn
What the hell has potty training got to do with this forum???
Ah yes, so you can go camping and not have to take nappies - good onya for bringing it up!!
What you need to do is get big Al, pull down his Bond's Y fronts, sit him on the potty and get him to do the business. Then when Al does it, make a big fuss and song and dance and hoopla etc. Bring out the bubbly (non alcoholic of course) and celebrate Big Al's achievement.

AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"
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Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 20:12

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 20:12
you're exactly right that's what it's got to do with..camping no nappies...I'm sure other's have been there done that...and re Al..I've tried that....no good...ahahhahaha....even with the bubbly...Life - Live it , Love it !





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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 21:25

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 21:25
Lyn, sorry I was in a hurry so I could go and cook dinner, but Geoff had beaten me to it. Chicken and salad, YUM. Now to the potty training .... My first was trained by 14months, by more or less training me. I would sit her on the potty at certain times of the day while I read her a story, as she loved books. When there were results, the celebrations were so exciting with the claps and cheers and a dancing mum which excited her. It was probably worth a wee to see me. The others it was a little later and different. One of the boys aimed for a pingpong ball in the loo. That was fun, to him. My grandson (2) saw his dad and wanted to copy. So every kid has his own style of fun. Test him out on what he finds is exciting. Using quick release undies is a wise move too, although it may result in wet carpet. One reason we ripped up the carpet and put down ceramic tiles through out, for the grandbabys. Now us oldies have cold tootsies in the Qld winter. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 07:56

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 07:56
Hi Jen,

thanks for that, what excites Callum is this: The very hungry catepillar, Toy Story 2, elephants and gold stars...so far he has earned coloured ones for trying..I'm sure if he manages to get a gold one we'll be on our way....let's hope so...T/trained my daughter in one day....but there again...there's a bit of a personality difference between Tegan and Callum....we'll get there

cheers LynLife - Live it , Love it !





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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2004 at 19:57

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2004 at 19:57
Lyn,
Sorry to jump in on this thread a few days late (and pages down) but I was searching for what stuff people had to say about the Steve Irwin incident (I was away during all that and am behind on my reading of the forum from that week)... anyway, about the potty training - have you seen the book "I want my Potty?" It is absolutely fantastic to encourage your child to give up nappies as they want to be like the kid in the book who at first hates to use the potty (or toilet) but then realises how proud and clever she is. Peer pressure is always the way. You'll find it at the library or even on the bookshelves as its a popular childrens author - hang on I"ll go get it... ok got it - by Tony Ross.
I also put up a chart on the wall of the bathroom and put stamps on it each time we had success. We also made phone calls and told Nanna everytime we had success. Mine was toilet trained in day by 2yrs, and by night also about 4 mths later. Best of luck!Regards Michelle,
Spread the word - ExplorOz.com
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Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2004 at 20:17

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2004 at 20:17
Hi Michelle...

yes I've seen the book, infact I think my mum has it, so I might swipe it from her...we're trying the gold stars..so far he has got coloured ones for showing an interest...yesterday he announced twice he was going, sat on it and did nothing but enjoyed having a story read to him...and he was telling nanna who got pretty excited..it's going to be a battle..I've put him in pullups as he can easily get them up and down..and he ran out of footware and was getting way to stressed....

Tegan it took 1 day once she was ready...ahahaha..Callum is going to take a wee bit longer

thanks for the feedback...

Lyn

Life - Live it , Love it !





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Reply By: jemima puddle duck - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 18:39

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 18:39
gday jen.
i didnt put geoffs name here because i think it was you who put the post up.
first of all how many people do you know with a drinking problem.
(1)were they given booze at a young age.
(2)do you know any junkies.
(3)were they given drugs at a young age.
(4)did they take up drugs/booze later in life.even if they never grew up around it.
(5)alcoholism is a problem not proved to be from given a drink at 4 months old.
(6)who are you to judge.
(7)what has this forum got to do with your post.
if you cant think of something more important to post about i think you should get a life.
i might be a little harsh but i know people with/or had drinking problems with out drinking any booze at a young age.(me)
i have lost 4 great friends from drugs at a later age and never did them young.you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:34

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:34
Take it from me Richard.. I know. The answer to your 4 first questions is YES.
5. As far as the baby having alcohol at 4 months should be classed as abuse. It certainly wouldn't be doing any good to his brain cells.
6. Yes, I am to judge, on one side of my parents family there is big problems affecting all familys from early introduction to alcohol, and when the kids grew up the kick of alcohol wasn't as good anymore so in came the drugs. I have one dead cousin from drugs and 3 dead uncles, from grog. SO I HAVE A RIGHT TO JUDGE. I have seen the damage and I have a family to protect and we all live in Australia and want the freedom without the idiots.
7. This forum has a lot to do with this problem as much as the forum has to do with stolen fridges etc.and other crime issues.
8. Now I might be a bit harsh in saying this...........you and your mates must have been at a responsible age, or an age when you could say no to start with. You could still say no, but thats your decision to get a life.
These babys have no say what is stuck down their neck, it is like pumpkin, they will acquire a taste, and before long that taste is not too bad. Jen ( with Geoffs approval)Looking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:46

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:46
to be fair...babies can tolerate a little bit of alcohol - and that advice was given to me by my maternal health nurse [or as I called her my mental health nurse]......and...like all things substance abuse is usually the result of some other issues...and I think those of us who have wittnessed someone with problems can testify the drug is just a an excuse to deal with the prob.....and that's the saddest bit...

now...I'm still waiting on toilet training advice - the gold stars and the trip to see the elephants just aren't working...and he's running out of footwear...lol...

LynLife - Live it , Love it !





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Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 08:35

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 08:35
Jen,
Jemima is not Richard...I think?
I am Richard

Its gone of the rails here......in my opinion one cant compare Steve endangering his babies life in a croc pen with feeding a healthy baby miniscule amounts of beer. One might be correct in calling it abuse... but saying its endangering the baby's life....hardly.

Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 11:50

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 11:50
Lyn,

I agree with your "the drug is just a an excuse to deal with the prob" statement. Unfortunately as you know I have to deal with it every other day. Alcohol is not the cause, but it has become the problem. Cassie (14) will not touch alcohol due to what she has seen, and James (6) won't touch it either until (he tells me) he is 18...at least they have learnt what problems alcohol can cause.

PS: Glad you enjoyed the Sparkling RedJust Do It!

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Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 11:59

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 11:59
Hiya Glenn,

I sure do know, and as you know, I've been there and seen that...

the sparkling red was superb, have a bottle in fridge waiting for the right occaision to be drunk...

cheers...

LynLife - Live it , Love it !





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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 13:06

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 13:06
Sorry Eskimo Richard, I got the cuteness mixed up :-) what brought all this to mind, is the bloke I was initially talking about giving alcohol to his baby, is a 34 year old using his baby for a showoff toy in front of his mates, to this day, it is still a laugh, to the irresponsible adults, to see him go to the bin and pull out a empty stubby and drain it dry. This is only one case, what else is going on in homes where kids are play items for adults and they are experimenting with goodness knows what else, in the name of fun. I am not saying it is endangering his life, at the moment, but shouldn't a baby be treated as a baby and maybe given a chance to live a sensible life through protected direction, by his parents. The end result ....... better future for Australia. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Reply By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:49

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 19:49
Hi Geoff and Jen
Like you pic with your swimming Maverick - where is it swimming??
I was interested to hear the reaction to poor Steve Irwin and felt that it was a bit of an over reaction. Fairdinkum, the risk is greater to a child when the parents drink and smoke through the pregnancy that when he took it nearer a crocodile. Yet you hear nobody complaining loudly about people who do that.

I read in the papers on the weekend that there was evidence that CT scans on children at a young age might cause some brain damage to the child from the radiation. The evidence is indirect and 'soft' but the developing brain is a very sensitive organ. During pregnancy there is no safe level of alcohol intake because it seems there is a linear relationship between intake and damage from alcohol to the unborn baby. Even a small amount of alcohol seems likely to do some damage eg wine glass of wine a day. I reckon that it is likely that developing brains in children would be very susceptible to alcohol damage too and that really they probably should not have any until their teens.

I know that it is a personal issue for parents, but there is unlikely to be any benefit from giving alcohol to children. I reckon that the most important thing is for parents to model responsible use and intake of alcohol for their children. Like you, I have seen lots of people with their lives destroyed by taking too much.

There are health benefits from alcohol but they seem to come at only 1 standard drink per day with some alcohol free days. Many people are actually harming their health.

AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 22:00

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 22:00
G'day Andrew and Jen, That's Mav at Cannibal Creek up at the Cape washing his undercarriage. Is you Toy in the same area? With this alcohol subject, I see it has a major affect in many areas of todays health, social and family enviroments. I may be over sensitive but it does hurt my heart severely to see what is happening, and what will result in bigger problems in the future, especially in people that I know. I am so thankful my mum saw the error of her dad and siblings that she chose not to follow in their footsteps and was completely against any alcohol in our home. We are not that strict, but educated our kids in seeing the negatives of alcohol, and keeping control of their thinking. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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Follow Up By: Members - Andrew & Jen - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 06:58

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 06:58
Our picture is at the Pascoe River crossing in Cape York. The other picture is at Vrilya point on Cape York.
AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"
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Reply By: Member - Bernie. (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 23:42

Sunday, Jan 04, 2004 at 23:42
Hi Geoff & Jen
Don't know about the Steve Erwin thing or about the nappies,
re alcohol It all comes back to what you do at home all kids are mimics
: ie get dad to show the young fella how to stand and pee etc
if you deny them things they will find away around it.

My experience - had a sip as a kid (now 58) had a glass of beer every night at home with Dad & Mum (after starting work at 16) and I still have a beer (not in excess)
Son (now 30) as a toddler when home used to sip out of any ones glass (no idea how much he had), so we gave him 1 tiny sherry glass at tea time in his high chair as we had ours at the table( our Dr said no harm & maybe increase his appetite) he never ever looked for any more. At about 9 yrs old would not touch it any more, started to drink beer (only) again at 17 started driving at 18 & did the (driver does not drink thing with his mates) and still does today & only drinks
alcohol ocassionaly.
Daughter (28) would not drink it if offered untill 9yrs and she asked if she could have one which she did on occasions for a few years, at 20yrs she hardly ever had it any more and still dos'nt.
I might add they both went through Uni got there degree's & did post grad diplomas
( I'm pleased to say neither tried the Drug scene).

My sister had 6 kids 2boys &4girls "never never" allowed any alcohol ( yet they would drink themselves)
result - 1 P**s pot & 3 pregenecies.

Just my 2 cents worth hope it all makes sense

Cheers

Prado TD Auto
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff & Jen - Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 13:27

Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 13:27
G'day Bernie, Yes, I know familys like yours where moderation reigns, and there is no problem, and yet I know a family like your sisters where there is no end of trouble. It boggles me to see this baby used as a play thing for the parents, and alcohol is one of the things that is used, so the moral to the story is, there are things going on behind closed doors that are eventually going to come out in the open in years to come. I hope this little fellow is going have a clear thinking brain or to be able to have a choice to which road he takes. My personal opinion is, it is not a good start. JenLooking forward to the cruise and snooze years.........Retirement
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