Beating the dealer!

Submitted: Monday, May 28, 2012 at 17:39
ThreadID: 95867 Views:3924 Replies:16 FollowUps:23
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anyone got any experience or tips in buying a new car - looking at a SR5 Hilux auto TD. I know the Thailand floods have halted supply somewhat, and I'm not in any hurry, so should I be waiting til the end of year, end of next financial year etc.?? thanks

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Reply By: D-Jack - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 17:39

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 17:39
Probably should have mentioned, I'm trying to get the best possible price!
AnswerID: 487019

Reply By: Madfisher - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 17:59

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 17:59
You could try emailing every dealer in the state, list exactly what extras you want , and ask for best price, but with demand outstripping supply its a asellers market.
Dmax dealers seem to be keen to do business.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 487025

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:11

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:11
D-Max dealers are very keen, with a new model due soon, and the end of financial year coming up, they want to quit stock! No dealer likes to have large stocks at June 30th!
Another thing to remember is that dealers buy on floor plans.
A floor plan deal only lasts a certain time, usually about 3 mths. If the vehicle isn't sold in the life of the initial floor plan, they have to roll over the floor plan (refinance), and this costs extra $$'s!
If you can find a dealer with your model and they've reached the end of the initial floor plan agreement, they will be extra willing to quit it, so they don't have to roll over the floor plan.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:06

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:06
D-Jack - I found that settling on a precise model, colour, accessories, and whatever else was required in a new vehicle purchase - and then making out a formal "invitation to tender" document, with all the relevant details, and faxing it to all the local dealers who might be interested, worked well!

You have to state all the conditions of the tender (whether finance is part of the deal, and precisely what brands of accessories are suitable), include a set time and date (4:00PM on a Friday afternoon is common), and state that you reserve the right to not accept any tender, or to not accept the lowest tenderer.
You also need to state that the tenderer has to supply full details of the vehicle they are offering, including VIN and build date (there's still a lot of 2011 build date vehicles in stock!).

I got a good deal on a new dual cab Hilux in the late 1980's, but it had been in stock for 7 mths! I was happy enough to accept that, it meant the retail price discount was pretty hefty, because they wanted to quit that Hilux!

The supplies of Hiluxes should be picking up pretty well about now. I know the wharf was full of new vehicles last week, I've never seen the Fremantle wharf vehicle storage area, so full of new vehicles for a long time!

Cheers - Ron.
AnswerID: 487026

Follow Up By: Bill BD - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:20

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:20
I agree with other posts. The trick is to decide exactly what you want and get prices for exactly the same thing at lots of places. Don't let them tempt you with bells and whistles outside your brief... if you do it becomes hard to compare prices (which is exactly what a seller wants). Let them know what you are doing and that you are only accepting one price - "This is exactly what I want, I am going to 20 dealers and I am only coming here once.... what is your price.". Don't fall for "this price stands if you buy now before you leave the shop".... its rubbish.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:23

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:23
If your buying a fleet It may work but if buying one I don't think the dealer would even bother.

Tenders are usually used for businesses sourcing a product.... what's the difference between a tender and an every day quote.

Might have to try it with the petrol companies :)

Hilux would have to be about one of the worst vehicles to get a big discount on..... they are selling well, are in short supply and dealers don't carry that much stock of them, they sell quickly.

First thing you have to do is build a relation ship with a dealer and at that dealer a sales person.

We have just placed an order for a new 3.2 lt Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, even that our fleet is nearly all Toyota including 4 SLWB Hiaces and a 200 series VX Landcruiser, we approached the Toyota dealer who we have a really good relation ship with and who we bought all our Toyotas through to quote on a new Hilux SR5 4X4.... they can back with their best price and the Ford dealership who we also have a really good relationship with but we only have one Ford in our fleet that gets turned over every 3 years..... they came back with a price we could not refuse.

Seriously and being logical there is that much fleet sales going on these days with businesses having a tax advantage after the 1st of July, the mining boom and the construction industry...... dealers make more money of then than a single customer sale and what stock they do get they give first option to businesses and being end of financial year where businesses are chasing new vehicles...... Now I not being smart or big headed but it's the truth.

I don't think you will find a 2011 plated new Hilux in stock and no dealer will supply a vin until you have signed the dotted line.

Price comes down to a lot of factors, what vehicles they have in stock at the time, what they have on order, what they can do a deal with another dealer for and cancelled orders that they might have a deposit for.

Dealers hate single vehicle purchases shopping around and chasing the last $, the dealers loose interest very quickly, your better off staying with one dealer and working them hard.... sure shop around at another few dealerships to find a base price but going to 20 dealers!

Best place for a base figure is web sites like car sales to see what other dealers are offering the vehicle for.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 08:27

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 08:27
I think some sound advice in there from olcoolone...

Sometimes the cheapest price doesn’t always translate into the best deal over the longer-term. And by that I mean after-sales service etc. I always try to buy locally and support local businesses, regardless of what it is, but in return I expect the same response when it comes to after sales service... I think you get more buy-in from that approach.

Good luck with your purchase...
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:53

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:53
Good point The Landy. We used to bend over backwards to help our loyal customers, with service pick up & delivery or loan cars etc., as they say ..... what comes around goes around!
The other thing that I can assure you of is, that a lot of buyers are far more unscrupulous than any dealer!

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Reply By: D-Jack - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:59

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 18:59
thanks for the responses - some excellent ideas to get me started.

Ron - you mentioned there are still lots of 2011 vehicles in stock - do you mean the Hilux or just generally? If so I may be willing to settle on a 2011 model - it probably won't have Sat nav but I want a Hema or similar anyway which is superior for off road stuff. Thanks
AnswerID: 487030

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:37

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:37
D-Jack - I'd be surprised if there's any 2011 Hiluxes around that are still in new stock - but sometimes the less popular models hang around for a while.
I've been getting quite a few flyers in the mailbox for big car sales deals currently on, and it seems there's still quite a few of the 2011 models still available, in other brands.

Cheers - Ron.
FollowupID: 762285

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:45

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:45
The site is advertising at least 20 new 2011-plated Hiluxes for sale in NSW/ACT. There'll be more that aren't advertised, or are advertised elsewhere.
As I stated, the ones currently on offer are the models less in demand, such as petrol and 4 cyl models.,2011
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:28

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:28
And out of 20 on car sales 2 were 4x4.... 1 base model and one SR.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:00

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:00
D-Jack - You didn't elaborate, but I presume you're looking for a dual-cab, SR5, turbo-diesel auto Hilux?
If so, you're looking at the "premium" range in the Hilux, and as such, the demand for this model is enormous, and the discounts will be minimal. lists 51 new, KUN26R model Hiluxes, on offer from dealers, Australia-wide. 50 are 2012 models, and some of the offers are for vehicles slated for July delivery. It's dealers dream to sell cars before they even arrive, so that's indicative of demand.

There's one 2011-plated KUN26R on offer in S.A. The colour is Ink (a dark Navy Blue). The price is POA.
There could be a couple of reasons why this popular vehicle is still there.
The major one could be that the dealer is asking a premium on the RRP. The second reason is that it could be a dealer where dual-cab sales are less common, and single cab traytops are the primary orders in that area.

However, a 2011-plated Hilux has to incur a discounted sale price, regardless of the dealers attitude.
Vehicles are sold on a year-identification basis, and it's effectively a year old already, and thus has to incur a discount on RRP.

The "going rate" for a new KUN26R is around the $54,000 mark. You'll find a few hundred dollars difference in pricing between States, with Victoria and QLD often the cheapest.
You should be able to acquire a new KUN26R for around $52,000 on a no-trade deal, and a new 2011-plated KUN26R should be at least $2000 cheaper again.

The amount of Stamp Duty varies substantially between states, and QLD was noted for many years to have the cheapest Stamp Duty on vehicle sales.
I purchased a used 1990 Mack prime mover in 1993 for $110,000. I'm W.A. based, but I bought it from a Vic. Mack dealer.
I took the truck to QLD on a permit and registered it there, and then brought the truck back to W.A. and swapped the rego to W.A. rego.

I saved over $10,000 in stamp duty on this deal by doing this, and this stunt was commonly known to W.A. buyers of expensive vehicles in that era.
I'm not sure if the differences in Stamp Duty still hold true, because I haven't followed them, and there's been lots of changes since the early 1990's.
Once you pay Stamp Duty on a purchase in one state, you do not have to pay SD again in another state, because of the free trade provisions in the Australian Constitution.
FollowupID: 762326

Reply By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 19:22

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 19:22

We have used Private Fleet very successfully, recently. Just tell them exactly what you are wanting, eg., SR5 Hilux auto TD with BFG AT tyres, Bull bar, driving lights, etc,

Private Fleet then contact all dealers to obtain the best quote and save you the leg work. They will be in touch with you regularly while it is all going on. A great team to deal with.

We saved over $1000.00 when compared to the local dealers. The car was delivered by transport to our door and the trade in was loaded onto the car carrier to go back to Sydney. We are over 700 kms from Sydney.

I will certainly be going that way for the next vehicle I need.

The dealers are able to reduce costs and will have to if they are continually beaten by businesses like Private Fleet.

Hope that helps

AnswerID: 487033

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:02

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:02
Who pays them for their services?

FollowupID: 762269

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:29

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:29
The spotter will get about $300 from the dealership, but most times the spotter delivers the vehicle to you.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 23:06

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 23:06
That was exactly the point that I was trying to make, they are little more than glorified spotters.
I spent 17 years selling new cars & most of what has been said here is laughable. If you want a good deal, generally it is best to buy close to the end of a month, dealers work with monthly sales targets.

FollowupID: 762296

Reply By: escapesilv - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:24

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:24
Hi D-Jack

When I was purchasing my last new car I found out which was the biggest rival dealer of the dealer I wished to get my car from.

As soon as I sat down with the sales man he asked me if I had got another price from some other dealer, so I named the dealer.
He immediately was open to negotiation and wanted to beat him.
In the middle of all this my sun rang to see how I was getting on, so I told him what price we were at, then the sales man asked me if it was the other dealer, and immediately crossed out all the figures he had given me and gave me the pen, and said " what price will I have to give you to beat him".

I was very happy with the deal I got.

Cheers Rob
AnswerID: 487039

Reply By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:43

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 20:43

It may pay you to read through the Private Fleet site.

I can only guess that the Fleet buying lowers the price dramatically and that is how they are more than competitive. When our car was in the mix, they had an order for 9 other of the same vehicle make.

The normal services can be either carried out by your local dealer or an Authorised Car Service Centre.

AnswerID: 487042

Reply By: Member - Michael O (NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:57

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 21:57
Can recommend Sharon Penrose
The Automotive People
Motor Vehicle Brokers
1300 55 2886

No connection, just a satisfied customer

Michael O
AnswerID: 487051

Reply By: SDG - Monday, May 28, 2012 at 23:25

Monday, May 28, 2012 at 23:25
I always walk in with the cash in my pocket.
AnswerID: 487057

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:37

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:37
And the minute you put down more than about $5000 in cash for a new car, the ATO, the local Police Dept, and the Financial Transactions Reports division of the banking system, gets a computerised alert!

The FTR lower limit is supposed to be $10,000, but the authorities are always looking for people making multiple cash transactions that are less than $10,000, trying to avoid the $10,000 reporting limit!

People who whack down a huge wad of cash for a new car are immediately put under the spotlight, as drug dealers, or tax evaders. If you put down a large wad of cash, you'd better have a good story, when the authorities initiate an investigation!
I'll bet Shaker has some good stories about cash buyers of new cars!

In addition, cash doesn't talk in car dealerships, anyway. The dealers always have kickback deals in place with finance companies, and they make more out of a deal where they sell "dealer finance" with a car.
Now, I'll wager even Shaker agrees with that statement!
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Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:22

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:22
Was not aware of all those people being called.
I've never had a problem dealing that way $20 000 was my biggest handover

My old man paid cash a few years back for a new Kenworth.

Maybe they don't look at it to seriously in the country.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:46

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:46
You are right about finance income, our finance dept used to make as much a month from finance & insurance commissions as either the new or used car depts!

FollowupID: 762356

Reply By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 08:40

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 08:40
1)Know exactly what you want, colour, options etc. etc.
2)When you go to the dealer reception, be a nice guy and ask the receptionist who needs a few sales this month, and talk to that person. She will think you are really nice even though it is part of your sinister plan.
3)Build a relationship with about 4 - 5 sales guys / dealers over 2 - 3 weeks. "get them pregnant with your opportunity" so to speak. They will fight harder for you later. Get a feel for the soft discount level at this point.
4)Wait till a week before the end of the month, or better still end of June and be prepared to take delivery before the end of the month. Talk directly to the sales manager and tell em you will make a decision that day ( but not right now unloess you are sure you are on a winner).

Some dealers will be above their target and useless. Some sales guys, and better still dealerships will be under target. They are the ones that want your business desperately and will give you the best deal.

AnswerID: 487074

Reply By: GT Campers - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:19

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:19
Don't go looking until you are ready to buy AND be ready to buy when you find what you want. Dealers HATE time-wasting numpties and newbies who think they are being smart by too-ing and fro-ing and trotting back between several dealers, especially when it's only a fraction of a percent of the vehicle's overall price.

Some people spend months chasing the 'best price' or waiting for the next bargain to come along... In the meantime the RRP has gone up $3K and they have to spend more. Plus, they've burned three tanks of fuel and racked up a $100 phone bill.

So, when you are READY to buy, find the car specs you want (ex-demo or 2011 plate can save you cash), buy it, and get on with enjoying it!

As has been mentioned; It's a good idea to approach a dealer - hopefully local to you - that has a good rep for maintenance service, too.
AnswerID: 487081

Reply By: coonick - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:24

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:24
In my honest opinion, DONT buy an ex demo vehicle.
It is a used car, regardless of kms on it and I bet you it has been given a short hard life. I know the demos I have driven I have given them heaps, and im sure they havnt been run in properly.
when I was in the process of buying my ranger I went to several dealers to get a great feel as to how the car performs, I am sure I have alienated most ford dealers in the process but if im spending $50k on a new car I will do exactly that.
IF, you are going to go the demo way, make sure you get $1000`s knocked off it. Look at it this way, you buy an advertised new car for $50k with zero kms on it for $50k you drive it out the gate and its lost at least $5k immediately.
However dealers put these demos on sale for maybe $2-3k discount.......Bahhhh humbug, its a used vehicle simple as that. Get the discount on it it YOU deserve.........

AnswerID: 487085

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:09

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:09
coonick - Have you ever seen the Centrelink clowns driving new cars off the ships or trains to storage areas, or around the distributors yards??
Or the same types of employees in the dealers moving the vehicles from yard to yard, dealer to dealer, or between dealer and accessory fitment places??
You'd never buy a new vehicle again, if you knew how these clowns drive them!
It's not the first time one of these latter clowns has been booked for doing burnouts with a new vehicle being moved on the road!
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 13:54

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 13:54
... ex-media :) police, demo and hire cars often go faster because they've been driven (run-in) HARD. Pussy-footing a new car is not actually good for it...
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 13:56

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 13:56
If your going to go a thrash someone else's vehicle, you have rocks in your head...... sorry but I don't get it.

So the poor innocent person who with their hard earned money buys this demo that in you words "I have given them heaps, and im sure they havnt been run in properly" may be stuck with a car that may of been damaged by some clown who thinks it funny.

Do you drive your own car that way?

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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 14:12

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 14:12
Not sure if you're referring to me, olcoolone...but I'll offer this: With high tolerance CNC mass-machining etc etc of components, old-school running-methods aren't relevant these days. In fact, they are detrimental to long-term performance of the engine. Hard running early in an engine's life is actuall good for it. Talk to some highway cops (especially older ones before Police Fleet was disbanded) and they wil all have a story about the quickest cars being the ones "delivered" at 230km/h between, say, Sydney and Griffith...

But, we're getting off-topic!
FollowupID: 762338

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 16:55

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 16:55

BMW and others use demo and exec vehicles as their way to discount.

Each dealer will have tens of ex demo vehicles with 200km - 300km on the clock

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:33

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:33
There's a difference between abuse and hard driving. The major problem with all new items of manufactured equipment is that tolerances are very tight, and heat buildup has to be watched in the first few hundred kms. Otherwise, you drive them normally.
The old days when you had to "run-in" pistons rings carefully for the first 1000 miles are long gone.

All modern components don't need "seating" or "run in", but giving them full throttle, and extremely high RPM, the minute you're out of the dealer yard, will possibly lead to seizure until regular working tolerances are established.

Full throttle and high RPM with brand new components will generate high heat loads very rapidly. Fortunately, most new vehicles being driven are limited in length of operation, speed and load, because they're nearly all in suburban areas.

The reason some cars go much faster than others is because their working tolerances are high - thus the reason for the "flogged" cop cars going so well.
How many times have you remarked how brilliantly, and fast, something is running? - right before it blew up! LOL
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:39

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 17:39
tik tik BOOM!
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Reply By: hamo - Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 21:55

Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 21:55
The best way to bet a dealer is with cash.
Offer 10 - 15 less than asking price & when they um & arr tell them no finance cash price.
Most will think its BS & accept the offer.
Worked for me
AnswerID: 487133

Reply By: Horacehighroller - Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 17:32

Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 17:32
The last new car I bought was done as follows.

I had researched the car at a dealer. I then specified all vehicle details - colour, engine, trans, year etc etc. I also specified all the extra's etc that I wanted (including brands, eg "hayman Reece Tow Bar 3,000Kg Capacity, including 7 pin plug).

I listed all this on one of the various websites (can't recall which one)and within 48 hours I had what I thought was a pretty good price (from a non-local dealer).

I then went to a few local dealers and asked for the best price on the "specified" vehicle (without telling them the internet price).

One dealer wouldn't talk price at all other than to continuously re-iterate that it would be "significantly less than RRP.
A second dealer wouldnn't go lower than $1,000 higher than the internet, and the dealer I eventually bought from started $500 above the Internet price, and when I said I was prepared to sign then and there if they could do "significantly better" they took another $1,000 off and said "take it or leave it".
So with a bit of effort I saved $500 by haggling.

Good Luck

AnswerID: 487185

Reply By: coonick - Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 22:54

Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 22:54
@ron N....
So every single car driven in yards etc etc is flogged beyond belief by morons hired for a quick buck ???????? I think not !!!!!!! Yes it probably does happen on occassions but the way you explain it no one should ever buuy a new car....
No I havnt seen it but i am sure the people who over see itwould have somehting to say
I say Bollocks to that.
@ olcoolone
Yes I have given a demo a hard time !!!!!!! who hasnt ???????
I certainly dont feel guilty of it and NEVER will.
I stand by my wisdom of NEVER EVER buying a demo.......
why ????? dont you understand that if one is going to spend good money on a car that you want to see what it can do, I dont flog it and I dont do burn outs in it but I DO see what its performance is first hand, if there is an issue then the salesman sitting next to me can speak out, I have had sales people tell me to drive it hard.
AnswerID: 487216

Reply By: D-Jack - Saturday, Jun 02, 2012 at 08:56

Saturday, Jun 02, 2012 at 08:56
Although we got a little off track, thanks for the replies - has definitely provided me with some excellent ideas and information, and I'm sure other prospective new car buyers can get somethign out of it too

AnswerID: 487429

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jun 02, 2012 at 09:36

Saturday, Jun 02, 2012 at 09:36
Treat your local dealer as you would like him to treat you.
Go & see them first & tell them honestly that you would much rather deal locally & keep locals in jobs, but obviously price will be a factor, they will tell you get some prices that they will either match or beat.
Sometimes it even pays to pay just a little more close to home.

FollowupID: 762671

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