Landrover series 4, 3 ltr turbo diesel of Landcruiser 200 turbo diesel

Mighta been the peanuts driving the vehicles!!!

garrycol replied:
'SNIP..... you are quite correct that there are far more Toyota service agents out in the bush BUT the reality is that most of these are geared to older less complex Toyotas. As with a Disco, if you have an issue with a complex 200 it will gave have to go on the back of a tilt tray to major centres like Perth and Adelaide when out in the desert. '

You can't be serious right?

There are literally hundreds of Toyota dealers in the country, and every single last one is trained and practised in the V8 landcruisers.

To my knowledge there are zero land Rover dealers in the country.

I think you need to stop looking through those rose coloured glasses.

Gidday

I own neither and I am never likley to so I have no bias ... but check out the blog by the Burton family from WA and the trouble they had finding someone who could fix what ailed their 200 series on their trip to the Cape last year. It is sobering reading for people who think that any Toyota dealer anywhere can fix anything.

Cheers

Not joking at all.

"and every single last one is trained and practised in the V8 landcruisers."
Now your Joking.
Dave.
100 Series owner

I think it's funny that shops/garages stock parts for things that I'm told, rarely break down and don't stock at least the common parts for things that allegedly break down all the time. That's a strange business model. It's chicken and egg really. People use Toyota because parts are available, I hear it all the time. And parts are available because people are using Toyota. The same applies for Jeep in the US and Land Rover in the UK. You can drive 500-1000 kms in those countries and not see a Landcruiser. I saw only one in 10,000 kms through 8 countries in Europe, I was wondering if they were even available there. I didn't see one Nissan Patrol. Car reputations are vastly different in each country I can assure you.

rocco2010 posted:
Gidday

I own neither and I am never likley to so I have no bias ... but check out the blog by the Burton family from WA and the trouble they had finding someone who could fix what ailed their 200 series on their trip to the Cape last year. It is sobering reading for people who think that any Toyota dealer anywhere can fix anything.

Cheers

Rocco, I did as you suggested and checked out the Burton's Blog. Their dramas were caused by dirty fuel. Here is their entry:

"They (Broome Toyota) had the car for a week and found the petrol tank full of dirt and varnish. Red dirt from me using jerry cans and varnish from cooked Opal fuel from central Australia."

While it may have been difficult locating and servicing the fuel filters, your inference that their experience is a poor reflection on the 200 Series and Toyota service ability is way off. The fact is they found a Toyota dealer in Broome. There's one in Kununurra too. Both ends of the GRR.

According to the LR website there is a Service agent in Broome too, but other than that, in WA they are in Albany and Perth metro area.

By the way, a Tanami Pump and a portable filter would have gone a long way in preventing red dirt getting into the fuel tank from jerry cans.

Just one more comment,

a friend of mine traded his Disco 4 in on a 200 Series VX because every time he asked his Disco dealer a question starting with:

"What would happen if.....?"

the answer always had these three words involved:

"flat bed truck".

Hello gone bush

I was in noway casting aspersions on the 200 series, i am sure they are a a marvellous car. I was just drawing attention to the fact that not evey Toyota technician is a genius.

The nature of the problem was not relevant, just that it took a of trouble and money to fix it . Here is a quote from the blog, their words not mine. Note the reference to the four dealerships they visited before getting to Broome.

"I can’t say enough about the people in Broome. Firstly the Toyota team were unbelievable. They were booked right up and yet managed to fit us in, working overtime to help us out. The Workshop Supervisor is a technical genius diagnosing a problem in an instant when four other Toyota dealerships hadn’t a clue and then charging me a grand for their useless advice. Damien is the perfect Service Advisor, a gentleman on the phone, always positive and offering hope. Broome Hire Cars, very professional and wanting to help even at peak time for them. The same goes for the Palm Valley Caravan Park who really did go extra yards to help when they didn’t need to. Whilst this trip to Broome doesn’t hold overly blissful memories for me, I will forever remember and be in the debt of the people and businesses that helped us out. I’ve also learned that Toyota seems to have lost its’ old time ‘quality edge’. For a business that was a forerunner of quality assurance and control, the training given to its current flock of technicians seems to be abysmal. It would seem that if it can’t be diagnosed via the plug-in computer then there is NO problem. Most of these guys didn’t even know what filters existed on the petrol 200 series! Thank goodness there are competent mechanics with an old fashioned work ethic like Caleb in Broome!"

Cheers

Axle I have just sold a 100 series T/D and bought a 200 series, I can tell you first hand that, that anyone that says a 100 series T/D is better than a 200 series is telling some good porky pies, either that or they have never driven either.

There is simply no comparison.

As for the Disco being better to drive, tell him he's dreamin.

Faiir enough, ...But don't forget this is all on individual opinion, What suits one dosen't suit someone else,...I just wish the koreans would put a no frills large 4by on the market, to increase competition..

Cheers Axle.

There must be a reason you don't see many on the road especially in the outback I wonder why?

You may need to remove your blinkers....I did.

land Rover is also heaviest advertiser of the year in Overlander. Wonder if there is a relationship between the awards and ads.

Also these guys take a vehicle then hand it back to the dealer if it breaks or after the test. Not a real owner test.

Don't know about heaviest advertiser in Overlander

But D3/D4 have won well over 100 awards world wide
across various catergories

they can't all have been bought

Why not braggy.....that's what some think. ;-)

Brett.....

Why don't you write and ask them if advertising was a factor Boobook? I'm sure we'd all like to see their reply lol.

Don't think many place great store in car awards. They're always a matter of opinion, and longevity/reliability/running costs aren't specifically in the mix - nor is manufacturer/dealer backup unfortunately. Obviously price is also well down the list. Nevertheless the writeup will give Stephen some idea of the relative strengths of the 200 and the D4, both of which were 'evaluated' in their awards.

Came across this looking for the latest user reliability surveys Australia's Best Cars 2012

LR topped this one as well.

I own a 2012 D4 and I am over the moon with it.
I have so far since March 2012 done 36000km and I have been to Chambers Pillar El Questro and the Bungles.
The comfort is second to none and it has been totally reliable. It came with the ediff and all I have done is fit a bull bar, which sadly has been tested, and Cooper LTZ 255/55/19 and had no punctures.
I previously had a Patrol and also at work I drive all different Toyota's in a mining environment, hence the Land Rover. The Toyota V8 Diesels are not the favourite car for mechanics in the mines I can assure you.
As has been said previously all modern diesels have to be flat bedded when the computers take a holiday.
You will not regret a D4 purchase.

Hehe........

The 2012 Overlander 4wdoty was 200series Altitude - defeating the Disco.
The 2012 Overlander 4wdoty is the Disco defeating the 200series GXL

Seems like the just award it to whichever vehicle has the leather seats.

Sorry typo - 2012 was 200series, 2013 was Disco

You are too funny Tony. I once said silly things like that.

Yep its funny to see them broken down. Silly them.

On a trip I went on not long ago to the Brindabellas, there were 2 Jeeps, a Land Rover and a Troopy. The Troopy broke its rear diff....who'd have thought? I thought that was near impossible.... :-) It ended up costing him around $2000. That was strange, I thought he could just get a new one at the Wee Jasper pub? A schooner please... and a Troopy diff from your Toyota parts bin out the back. ha ha! One of the Jeeps ran out of fuel. The petrol ones guzzle bad and the gauge was faulty. Typical. :-) I love brand wars....

I thought we were talking about the D4 & 200 series here not troopies, they are a completely different vehicle.

Focus Kyle - this little line of discussion is not about the 200 series but the number of Discos vs TOYOTAs broken down on the side of the road so this brings in Troopies.

I agree though that the thread as such has nothing to do with Troopies but like all good threads the discussion twists and turns with little sub lines of discussion.

LOL

Garry

Quote "I don't own or drive either as well. But you see more Discos broken down on the side of the road. Two in the past week and not one Toyota."

I drove around Australia twice, First Trip in a 80series & Second Trip Half in a 80 series half in a 100 Series, The 80 series 1HDT had a catastrophic engine failure on Cape Leveque road, Had to leave it a the Broome Wreckers & buy a 100 series from Broome Toyota,

I saw 3 Discos on the back of Flat Beds and 3 Toyotas (including mine)
on the second trip, Plus a Hilux with fan thru Radiator on Tanami Road & a 75 Series ute with a broken axle on Buntine Hwy.

and even last weekend on the way back to Melb from Sydney I saw three broken down (bonnets up on side of road) Toyotas on the Hume Fwy,

I sold the 100 series after the 2nd round Aust trip and bought a Landrover Defender. The Defender has Never broken down but I'll tell you something , I use it for work & I often park on the side of the road, Every time another Defender drives past they stop & ask if Im OK , That has never ever happened to me in a Landcruiser.

Tells you something I think.

What tells me somthing Going Bush in some of your experiences is the way the vehicles were driven. ' broken axle' and 'fan through radiator'.

I said I dont own or drive one of the vehicles first menitioned, but I have owened two Toyotas and learnt to drive in a Series 2 Landrover.

The two Toyotas were a 76 SWB 40 Series and a 82 HJ47 Troopcarrier, and neither in 26 years of ownership ever broke down.

But getting back to the point in question regarding Discos and 200 Series, I still see more Discos than 200's on the side of the road with bonnet up.

To be accurate, the discussion was between Disco 4 and 200 series. I've never seen either broken down. We have one of each in our club both with very happy owners.

"I still see more Discos than 200's on the side of the road with bonnet up"

Maybe something to do with more room under the bonnet for their compressor ? Maybe just come off a track or the beach and need to air up ?

Makes sense to me.

As I said before....I once said silly things like that!

Brett....

I had my last fixed price 70000K service at $250 recently. Fixed price service only goes to the 70K service I asked for the cost of my next service at 80K is $850

If you believe that Land Rover Assist for three years anywhere in Aus and that includes the top of the Cape is fact then you must also believe in the tooth fairy. The will assist you in the Cape but at your cost. I suggest you read the fine print on the landrover web site re Roadside Assist.

This is the statement on the web Site:

Service Area: An area in mainland Australia, Tasmania, Phillip Island and other areas that are trafficable by a two-wheel drive recovery vehicle or islands that are accessible by a two-wheel drive vehicle (excludes ferries).

Seems to me it would cover the top end of The Cape maybe not south of the ferry.

Areas that can be accessed by a 2 wheel drive vehicle would not include the Cape. If you were stuck there no way would you get assistance even more so in the wet season.

LR claims
Towing is provided free of charge up to a limit of 20 kilometres from the breakdown location, where the breakdown location is within any capital city or major regional town. Outside of these areas, towing is provided free of charge up to a limit of 60 kilometres. All additional towing costs are your responsibility.

My take would be that LR Assist would send a truck up to the Cape and pick you up and carry you home all at your expense which will be big bucks in remote areas. The they will fix your vehicle when they get it to one of their dealerships..

kyle h - below quote from a trip report to the cape from another forum, owners d4 would not start at bamaga and land rover would only allow there techs to look at it in cairns.

"To their credit land rover assist looked after us and arranged for the car and the camper to be shipped down to Cairns and to fly all five of us as well."

land rover assist is a very good service and worth having on any car but gives some security.

Yorkie
I would be very careful what you read on other Forums unless positive proff is given, stories tend to be stretched to vindicate the choises people make.

I rang John from LR Assistance and LR do not offer people relocation, eg flying people to Cairns he said they could travel with the tow truck if there was room, a caravan or trailer is your problem not LR's, they offer only a maximum of $1000 for towing or carting a broken down vehicle, that will get you nowhere if you are in remote areas, I have seen enormous recover bills for recovering vehicles from remote areas, they will get another vehicle to you if one is available but basically said it will not happen in a remote area.

I must admit he was a very nice person, LR representatives do have a much better telephone manner that the guys at Toyota or Jeep.

Kyle,

Suggest you might read the fine print for the Land Rover Assist Premium Program which the above people obviously had.

"Alternative Transport Assistance
In the unlikely event that either accommodation or rental vehicle benefits are unavailable for any reason, alternative transport will be provided for you and any passengers travelling in your vehicle to enable you to return to your home or intended destination up to $450* (inc. GST). Any amount charged in excess of this limit will be your responsibility.

Vehicle Recovery/Return Transport
If your vehicle has been immobilised more than 100km by road from your home and cannot be repaired on the same day and you have continued the journey to your final intended destination or returned home, we will arrange for your vehicle to be transported to an appropriate agreed place (i.e. either your home or to the final intended destination)."

Lyn 3, Kyle H is right....you can't always believe what you read on forums. Many things are exaggerated on how good they are. But, of course, as everything it's mostly opinions as we all know and often based on what things have been written on forums, without any first hand knowledge. "My brothers best mate, ex wife's, fatherinlaws, bosses, house cleaner" told me kinda stuff.
Brett....

My quotes came directly from the Land Rover Assist web site contract,
not a forum.

Lyn
I think you need to understand that the original topic was breaking down in remote areas, not in the carpark of your local Toorak shopping centre. 100km from your home is certainly not remote unless your residence is in Siesia.

To get a rental vehicle to a remote area is going to cost far more than $450, are you aware of the cost of rental vehicles these days plus the cost of the person driving it to your location and will it be able to tow your van or trailer when you are stuck in the middle of nowhere?

If you think it is not going to cost you a significant amount of money then you do believe in the tooth fairy as I said in my original post.

Lyn have you been to a remote area of Australia like Cape York? I have several times, rarely see a Disco never seen a D4, not saying they don't go there but the dollars you are quoting will bring a rental vehicle a couple of hundred K's towards where you have broken down.

Where are you going to get a rental vehicle in the middle of the Tanami desert.?

I am in no way referring to breakdowns in suburbia, yes you are covered here with an excellent roadside assistance, just like every other vehicled on the market these days if they care to pay for roadside assitance.
Please don't go to remote areas and expect LR to get you out of trouble with their roadside assist, I think you will be sadly disappointed.

I am not denigrating the D4 in any way, this discussion is totally about the misunderstanding of their roadside assist, they suit a purpose for some just not my purpose, I had the paper work on my desk to buy one but when I went back to ask some final questionsat the dealership regarding the tow bar, akin to the plow on my tractor did not suit my offroad van as I would either have had to spend money modifying to suit, the small fuel tank is by no means of use to people that go to remote areas, the high cost of servicing and I do know that servicings are scheduled at something like 20000K which is a bonus but does ring some alarm bells for longevity, the lack of aftermarket gear at the time that was available I decided not to go that way.

I'm sure you are correct Kyle, I have no bone in the discussion merely quoting from the LR Premium Assist website with appears to imply that a reference to to D4 being recovered from Cape York may have been correct to some degree,

I'm also sure that you have probably traveled much more extensively throughout Australia than I have. Most of our travels have been doing botanical research and have just covered The Kimberley, NT and most of Qld and NSW for the past 28 years. We have only been to The Cape 11 times since 1985, the first time was in a petrol LR.

We have seen a variety of cars and 4WD's on the Cape from a Mini, Falcons to Hummers and F250's. Most make it with no problems with sensible driving. Also seen most makes broken down.

It is correct - I personally know the owner (if it is the same incident). The car was still mobile but unable to be driven large distances offroad. The required part could have been flown up and fitted but there is always the chance that more work was required so LR Assist offered to ship the vehicle from the top of the Cape to Cairns by the barge and the owners flew back - all on LR Assist. On reflection the vehicle could have possibly been repaired on site by someone with the know how without spares, definitely fixed with the spare (an air compressor) something that I would now carry as a spare in remote areas or do a mod to the car to get around the problem if there is a failure.

It doesn't matter if you have a 200 series, a D4 or anything else you need to know your vehicle and how to do basic repairs and carry the parts that have a chance of failure.

Garry

Interesting you are worried about electrics on the 200! Reminds me of when electronic fuel injection first came out, all the old-timers swore how bad fuel injection would be, couldn't fix it on the side of the road, would need a workshop as you couldn't clean the jets, reset the float etc... and they would always buy a vehicle with a "reliable" carburettor!! Now tell me, who would even consider buying a new car that had a carburettor today?

While electronics seem to be a "black art" because you cannot see how they work, they are arguably the most reliable bit on ANY vehicle. Yes, there will always be some horror stories of how XYZ brand broke down with a shorted out widget, but the reality is you will have FAR more issues with tyres, dirty fuel etc than any intrinsic vehicle reliabilty, regardless of brand.

The reliabilty of virtually all brands is so far "above the line" these days that it gets down to individual vehicles built on a "monday". Its very rare to get a generic fault that will stop any vehicle, but all brands will have some true story about a breakdown that gets stretched by the internet to "every" one of that model is about to have!!!

While I bought a 200, the D4 is an excellent vehicle, so too the the RR Sport. Drove them all and bought what suited me best. The D4 certainly has some fruit compared to the GXL 200, but all things told the 200 was better for me, not necessarily a better vehicle - thats just too subjective.

So, buy what suits you best and ignore the horror stories, god knows there are enough about the 200 with tailshafts, oil use, fuel pump programing, push button start failure etc... with barely a hint of truth in then after the internet rumours have done the rounds. Just take a look at the posts above and see how many have claimed faults based on their brothers uncles mates sisters 200/D4 and why the one your about to buy is going to have the same issue.

Good luck with finding what suits you best, both are good vehicles but one will be better for YOUR needs :)

Cheers

Captain