Do I need an emergency comm. device? SPOT? PLB? Nothing?

Yes I agree with Howard. If fellow travellers see you with kids they will stop and help.
Be sure to get an 80 channel unit.

Cheers

Jeez, that bloody Murphy is everywhere. I thought the Captain was supposed to be the last to leave the ship.lol

You can hire sat phones - might be the msot cost effective way to go.
As others have said, do first aid course and carry a good first aid kit as a first line of insurance.

Cheers,

Val

Val I suggested purchase as they are going for 3 months. The hire cost will go a long way towards purchase particularly if hey have further use for it later but yes hire is another option.

One other thing
"Would it be wise to have a SPOT or similar device, or are they really for people who are going truly into the outback/bush, not us highway-goers?"

The true outback/bush is anywhere out side the CBD..... here in Adelaide; like most capital cities I can take you 1hr from the CBD to some very isolated places where no mobile phone will work and hardly nobody goes..... and to trek out on foot would be a good 10hrs for help..... that's if you knew the direction.

Olcoolone,



There are many people in Sydney or Melbourne who would have it that Adelaide IS "the true outback/bush". LOL


But apart from that, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said in your 'Reply' post. The satellite phone is the easiest-to-use and most reliable form of communication in remote areas. PLB's may bring the cavalry but it does take time and does not provide advice in the meantime. Also it may be the local police, not the needed medic. The satphone also can be conveniently carried when hiking away from the vehicle........ try that with HF radio!


Sure, a satphone costs a few bob but what price do you place on your families safety? Even then its price is a minute portion of the vehicle cost....... most spend more on the fridge!

Yeah 4x4ers are a funny breed..... some have no problems spending 2-3 grand on a set of tyres, a few grand on an upgraded intercooler and a couple of grand on driving lights....... BUT on the other hand they will spend as little on a winch, communications and other safety related items as the can....... it doesn't make sense, fun and looks or safety!

We are set up with all the gear as we like being self reliant and as for safety we have UHF, HF, Sat phone, PLB and a Spot..... the Spot is used for family and friends to follow our travels.

What price do you put on a loved one's life?

The way I look at it is I want to make sure number 1 is safe (me) hence why we have done remote safety and first aid training and we have the gear.

But then again most think it will never happen to them and someone with the gear will always come along and help them.

We have to carry Satellite phones, PLB's and UHF radio's, remote first aid kit and recovery gear for work so it's just the norm to us.

Hi Bantam – Spot's not a toy
Before I brought a Spot about 3 years ago I talked to the Australian Rescue Service in Canberra.
They informed me they do respond to an emergency call from Spot’s control centre.

Compare to the legally mandated performance requirements of a proper EPERB, any of these personal trackers are a very poor second.

The authorities may respond to these personal tracker devices, but they do not communicate with them directly.

Eperbs are monitored directly by government run or contracted search and rescue centres, in the country of coverage not some private run call centre, who knows where.

for actual reilability of detection, satelite overfly frequency and ability to track and locate the beacon, the personal trackers are not even in the race.

The minimum requirements for eperb, detection times may seem a little long..but remember that is over the entire face of the earth, in areas like Australia and its surrounding waters the satelite fly over times and therefore detection times are far better than specified.

ALL EPERBS transmit continuoulsy once triggereed and will do so for the specified time...the larger units this may be days
They continue to transmit a distress signal that iincludes individual unit ID that will be referenced to the registered owner... they also continue to transmitt a tracking signal on the search and rescue frequency common to the VHF marine and VHF airband.

If you have selected a GPS integrated unit it continues to transmit your updated position...accurate to meters.

OH for it to be an acredited EPERB system device it must be proven to work when continuoulsy immersed in water.

If durability, time, certainty of decetion and ability to locate the beacon and there for you matter......a proper EPERB bassed PLB IS the real thing.

The others simply can not be relied on to the same extent.

The personal trackers are most definitely viewed as little more than toys in the search and rescue community.

They certainly do not fit the legal requirements for carrage on water craft.

Sorry But I call em how I see em.

cheers

I’ll take the Australian Rescue Service's advice on whether Spot is a toy or not.
In my conversation with them they reported rescuing a Kayaker half way to Tasmania.
Spot will send out its emergency message and GPS cordinates every 5 minutes until its battery goes flat – about 7 Days.
I use it as a backup device and I would make the first call on my Sat phone.

If a kayaker or any other seagoing craft travels beoynd 2 nautical miles from land they are required by law to carry an functioning and compliant EPERB.

That kayacker was being both wreckless stupid and breaking the law.

The spot provides no homing signal, and the whole system it work off is far lower grade than the international EPERB system.

Because it does not transmit continoulusly and on bands acessable to search and rescue craft is makes it a very very poor locator.

This bloke in the kayak was very very lucky to be found.

speak to people actually involved in search and rescue and they will tell you ya chances are far better with an international standard EPERB running on the world standard search and rescue system.

Why would you bother with one of these half baked things when you can buy the proper international standard device for around $400 AND there are no ongoing fees.

cheers

Not "EPERB", it is EPIRB actually. Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon. As you know so much about them I thought you would know that.

Bantam if I was going out sea I would have an EPIRB and a Spot.
For 4WDing a Spot suits my purposes and I test this device continually by sending location to my own and my family’s computers.
It never fails and they enjoy following my travels when I am out of telecommunications range.
I have an option of sending a number of different messages 1. a non-help message, 2. a help message to the family to send the Police to my last location or 3. an emergency call to the Spot control centre - all with accurate GPS locations.
They are a very handy toy.

Dennis

I am with you.

A bit of history is, I think, worth noting.

If my memory serves me well enough, my understanding is that the older style EPIRBs, operating on 121.5/243 MHz, relied heavily on overflying aircraft for detection. Hence the response time could be quite long. The triangulation method for positioning was also not very accurate (+/- 20kms = 400 sq kms)) and they therefore were also fitted with a homing beacon. They were developed and used almost exclusively in the marine environment and hence were designed to float using the sea as a ground plane. A sustained homing signal was necessary because of drift due to currents and/or wind.

With the recent change to 406MHz with satellite location, more accurate positioning is possible in the first instance (from memory ~ +/- 4 kms = 16 sq kms) and the 121.5 MHz homing beacon was still retained for final location and carrying out the rescue. With the incorporation of a GPS, accuracy was greatly enhanced.

Now on land, drift is NOT a problem. A device such as a SPOT, sending an emergency alert incorporating coords from the inbuilt GPS, is sufficient for SAR in Canberra to accurately determine your position (+/- 20m) in a short time frame - ~ 15+ mins. Those on your contact list will receive a sms or email within 5 mins and can contact SAR to give information such as vehicle typre, age/gender of people involved, etc. Contrary to some opinions, there is an official protocol in place between SPOT HQ and SAR. In the unlikely event of you moving, a follow up activation will give them an up to date location. Because every SPOT has a unique identifier, SAR will know it is the same device and make the necesary adjustment to the search parameters.

One more comment. At sea, the first action in an emergency is usually a MAYDAY call, particularly if there are other ships in the vicinity. Under international law, nearby ships are obliged to respond and help from them is highly likely to be quicker that anything organised from shore. IMHO, the same goes for a land based emergency. A MAYDAY call on your UHF radio, including the regulary used frequencies such as 40, 11, etc, plus the repeater frequencies, especially 5, could well elicit timely help. That is not to say that activating a device such as an EPIRB or SPOT as well should be delayed if the situation warrants it.

In the end it is a personal decision re what to take with you: I hope the above points helps to clarify the situation.

Cheers
Andrew

All of this is fine and good but in relation to the opening posts situation do you not think that a sat phone would be a much more useful tool for them?
There are plenty of situations that communication is needed that does not warrant deploying an emergency device.
Ringing ahead looking for spare parts, arranging a doctor / dentist etc appointment or other non life threatening situations etc etc

Being a belt and braces person, I have both.
But for those who want a cheap option the Spot serves you well.

Hullo AlbyNSW

There are a number of other factors to take into account

1 For the OP, what would constitute an emergency? Mechanical breakdown, sickness, non-life threatening injury, low fuel or water - for example, due to leakage, or only some life threatening situation.
000 only applies in the case of the last situation.

A sat phone is one option. However, like a mobile, it is not broadcast. That is, only the person you are ringing can hear you. There could well be someone only a few kilometres away (there often is) who could be of immediate help but they have no way of knowing about your situation. That is why I consider a UHF as an important first option.

Secondly, if it is not a 000 situation, who do you ring? This is an important question if you want a timely response. The police are not a roadside assist organisation. Therefore on a long trip are you going to carry with you at all times all the possible phones numbers that may be required? Or are you going to ring home and ask them to ring around to organise help for you? If ringing home, or a relative/friend, it is quite a responsibility (and time consuming task) to help you. One of the first issues for them will be trying to establish credibility with whomever they ring that they actually are not making a hoax call. (One of the reasons I use VKS 737 but that is another matter) And BTW, this issue is pertinent for SPOT users as well.

As to making routine calls for appointments, etc, a mobile with a Telstra 3G card will usually do. There are telcos like Southern who use Telstra as their network provider, so you don't have to have anything to do with Telstra itself ;-)

Cheers
Andrew

Hi Andrew
Your item 1 list is exactly the reason the sat phone is of most use
I carry UHF, Epirb and sat phone and I have been involved in two debilitating situations that were not life threatening but required assistance
In both situations the sat phone was the only option apart from sitting it out waiting for a passer by or until it became life threatening and activating epirb
I consider a UHF as a given minimum accessory and assumed they already had one

The issue of urgent non life threatening communication, or very important non urgent communication is not helped one bit, by either a proper, EPERB system bassed PLB or any of the down spec personal trackers.
Because they are single way communication with very little information conveyable.

A sat phone or HF radio will give two way communication "full text" two way communication, where the situation can be discribed, verbal help given and a wide variety of matters discussed.

Again back to the EPERB based PLB V the down spec personal trackers.
Even on land the speed, accuracy, continuous transmission and the transmission of a tracking signal can make finding some one in dense scrub very very much faster and easier.

The thaught that being a moving target being unlikely on land is also a falacy....remember a lot of people who travel do also undertake other activities, like walking, climbing, boating, rafting and all sorts of stuff.

Very often a party or individual in need of rescue will move to put themselves in a rescuable position or due to other causes they may have to move.
For example being caught in a bushfire, flood, landslide, avalance, storm damage siruation where moving ahead of the situation, to a place of safety and to a rescuable position may be your only hope.

AS for calling "MAYDAY" on UHF CB......Oh good luck chum......UHF CB has a very limited range...near line of sight ( and that means exactly what it says)...in open country you may get 12 to 15Km, If you have a high position may be 30Km.....indense hilly country it may be as little as 500meters....UHF CB can not be relied upon.
Appart from the fact that there is no official monitoring of UHF CB, no mandatory requirement to keep a radio watch, no mandatory protocols and even if there was UHF CB is a zoo.
In places where UHF CB is used it may be of help...but remote...foorrget it.

Besides, in a marine situation where there is clear and present danger, we are taught to pop the EPERB..... FIRST and call MAYDAY second.
That is how you stay alive
The EPERB is a guaranteed thing no radio is.
On water with modern EPERBSs particularly GPS, by the time you get your first MAYDAY exchanges with a marine rescue base or a nearby ship, the search and rescue authorities will know who they are looking for and where within meters
Those search and rescue authorites will have access to all available communications bands, have much better transmitter sites and the ability to communicate many different people with and manage a rescue.

For a mayday call to be much use, you need to know where you are.....and that is not as simple as it sounds...often that is the very reason you are in trouble....you also need to have time, battery power and ya radio in good condition.......good luck with that in a rolloveror vehicle fire on land or a capsize or taking water on water.

ALL the means of communications have drawbacks AND the single most important thing is risk reduction by proper preparation and situation management.

In this day and age,

we all carry mobile phones.....if you are going bush don't waste ya time with anything less than TELSTRA 3G.

We should all have UHF CB in our 4wds.

there are only two other things I would bother with and that is a SAT phone.

And if I was doing any adventuring, hiking, climbing, rafting or such a proper PLB on the EPERB system.

HF radio may be great as a community thing, but it is expensive and requires "some skill and undrstanding" and is most definitely not a guaranteed contact any time any place.

The down spec personal trackers....in my view are a very poor substitute for a proper PLB and just not worth the money at any price.
By the time you pay for ya spot tracker and the yearly fees....over the 5 years between battery changes, ya still ahead on a PLB...and that is on price alone.


cheers

Agreed - if you are staying on mainstream routes then at most an EPIRB. As has been said before, make sure someone knows where you are going and when you expect to be there. BUT, if it makes you feel good to get a sat phone then go for it.

EPIRB's, yep activate one and a rescue will be on the way.
Unfortunately they may need to bring a body bag as well.
A remote area first aid course and a human voice on a Sat Phone may negate the possibility of needing a body bag or even a rescue.
But then you may not need any of these devices, just like you may not need a fire extinguisher, an extra spare tyre or a repair kit, hell why not save some weight and leave the spare at home after all you may not need it, someone is bound to come along sooner or later.
Hey John King got home OK without all this BS.

Cheers
Pop

Gday Pop,
I asume your fitted out with 4 point racing harness, roll cage, fire suit, neckbrace, helmet, gloves and all the other "BS" as well?
In the event of an accident all this gear could be the difference between life and death, so obviously necessary pieces of equipment too.

Im not sure about your comparrison of a first aid kit, fire extiguisher and EPIRBS???? Two of them are for "you " to use to help yourself and the other is there to scream for help?

What sets off an EPIRB anyway?

Cheers

Hi Hairy,

Well apparently an EPIRB can be either manual (flick a switch) or automatic (immersion in water, impact, removal from mount) and maybe a couple of other methods that I am not familiar with.

I would have thought "screaming for help" would have fallen into the "you to use to help yourself" category.

Not sure if a piece of rope tied around my waist and the other end around the handbrake qualifies as a 4 point harness when used in conjunction with the standard 3 point seat belt. Yuh see my idea was that if I get tossed out the window the rope would pull the park brake on. Cunning huh.

Roll cage?? Isn't that what cab racks on utes are for??

Fire suit...hmmm I am sure my thongs would do to beat out the flames if my tee shirt and Stubbies catch alight.

Neckbrace?? What if tie that piece of rope around me neck as well as me waist?? Would that do?

Helmet?? Yep well the guy at the showground that sold me the base ball cap assured me it would protect me from something.

Gloves?? Nah, sorry mate I save them for when me and the missus go to the opera. Beside, have you got any idea what a good pair of gardening gloves cost these days!!!!!

Safe travels mate

Pop

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Cheers

The world might not not come to an end, but all the satelites could get taken out by an alien invasion....in that case the HF radio will be the only device usable. You could discuss your predicament with an Eskimo if conditions were right provided he also had his Volvo kayak weighed down with every personal safety device ever invented. :-)
To the OP, a sat phone is all you would want and there is very little risk of you actually needing it on the main highways. It's handy if home wants to contact you as well. Pricey though.

I have an Isatphone.
I have programmed all of the RFDS bases and 24 hour Police contact number for every capital city in Australia and personally rang them to confirm – It doesn’t take a university degree to do this.
They have excellent reception, email and GPS functions.
Google an Isatphone versus Iridium comparison for an accurate view of their strengths.

That's a sensible decision. As mentioned above make sure you ask for and hire a phone that has the 000/112 emergency free call. Stay away from prepaid and those with out emergency access. Something the hire companies would be well aware off, you hope.
J