Gary Junction Rd - carrying alcohol allowed ?

Agree totally with vk. How can we expect land owners and managers to give us access to their lands when we do not follow their conditions. It is called respect.

Agree with Gronk. You would have to drive up and down the Main Street of an aboriginal settlement piffling cans out the window to have a problem. So far on my out back trips I've never had someone even ask to see a permit. Isn't it like the tree falling in a forest ? If no one sees you it didn't happen ?

as well as not leaving evidence around ..... So what are you doing with the empty bottle/can/cask, burying them on their land using it as a rubbish tip. Or take the risk of leaving it in you car and it being found. And empty/opened can/bottle/cask is worse than a full one when you are caught.

Soap box ???

I didn't imply sneaking around like a schoolboy...I implied being discrete about it..

You've been stopped and searched ?? If I was reading correct, the transport of grog was OK on this part of his journey, so what you did has no correlation to this post..

If the community got wind of someone drinking a few beers in an isolated area out of town, then it's pretty obvious they weren't discrete about it..

Some people get worked up over trivial things in life.....chill out a bit !!

Where I was the transport of grog was also allowed. As is the same with this trip. If it was found that I had an open container or an opened bottle I would have either been due for a court case or confiscation of vehicle and gear (which has happened).

Why stuff it up for others.

This question has been asked on here before and the same answers have been given.

Gotta feel sorry for people who can't go a day without having a beer.

Being discrete about it is like speeding and slowing down because you saw a cop.

Its Ok till you get caught.

Rules are rules in these places If you dont want to observe them dont go.

A bit like the idiots this week in Malaysia who thought no one would worry if they stripped off on a mountain that was sacred to the locals.

Big mistake.

Similar in Canada We were out with a Head Park ranger when we went past a big ute and a boat surrounded by rangers.
He said two guys had been caught 100yards inside the national park carrying rifles.

Big mistake Everything was confiscated FOREVER No recoruse.
Perhaps they should start that here. LOL

deserter , you may feel sorry for people who can't go a day without having a beer , but I and many others I'm sure feel sorry that we as a nation feel it necessary to implement draconian laws onto legal of age adults consuming a legal product ,

It's not unlike no smoking laws, you most likely don't let people smoke in your house, they don't want people drinking on their lands, what's the difference?

OK Stevo......don't do it !!!...you're most likely to get shot or speared....your 4wd is going to be confiscated....you will end up in court and most likely go to jail for 3 years....

And wake up to yourself, alcohol does NOT need to be consumed...just because it's LEGAL to drink, it's bad for you, so don't take any at all !!

And BTW, I'll probably never visit that area of Australia because as an Australian I don't agree with paying money to visit Australia..

Thanks Gronk , I've been made aware of my problem , will wake up to myself and book into AA before I go
cheers Mate

Wow, some serious high horses here !!

I think stevo62 was asking for people's experiences, not moralising. Better book me in too !!

No high horses He asked a question The answer is no, its illegal.

Thanks guys for doing the right thing and speaking up. Being discrete and sneaking around are the same thing.

No he wasn't backtracks. He wanted us to tell him that we do it and so it should be okay for him to do it also.

Phil

I've never read such sanctimonious bollocks in my life. Firstly, alcohol consumed in moderate quantities has no effect on any one but the consumer (unlike cigarettes which are offensive to anyone breathing the same air).

I have travelled all over Australia, including aboriginal lands, consuming moderate amounts of alcohol ever day. I have never caused any harm or offence. I have never been confronted by any person, official or otherwise, in the execution of that activity.

Bigfish, you are a tosser mate. I am not above the law. I reckon the law is irrelevant.

Bob

Echucan Bob

"I am not above the law. I reckon the law is irrelevant."

Tell that to the copper when he is taking your car and all your gear off you, Then you can tell it to the judge.

What a foolish statement to make, remember this when you eventual get caught, police love smart blokes like you arguing the point, it makes their job easier to carry out.

Echucan Bob..You are a moron. Do you really think bragging on here that you consider yourself above the law and that drinking grog every day makes you a hero of some sort. You are a dead set wanker..by your own admission you have stated that you have travelled all over Australia , including Aboriginal lands and every day you have grog. Yet you have never caused an offence

So grog drank in moderate quantities has no effect on anyone? Your a fool...domestic violence, driving under influence, break ins and thefts are carried out by people who want more grog.

I think your brain is pickled mate and as an alcoholic your living in denial.

Interesting comments . Maybe I havnt traveled the right tracks, but I couldn't get caught doing anything by anyone for days ! Where are all these people waiting to catch you sneeze ?!!

I didn't know Australia had 2 sets of laws ??

I'm not aware of anyone being jailed for breaking "their" laws.....I didn't know "they" had their own laws ??

I don't agree with it being "their" land, so I certainly won't offend anyone because I won't go there !!

Agree, we travelled through the Lands last year and respected the wishes and the laws by travelling through until we were out of their backyard, a bit like not wanting random people turn up and have a drinking session on your lawn at home.

Hadn't ever thought about grog on the breath and the consequences as such as we don't put ourselves in that situation but well noted.

I've said it many times before with permits, just because you don't get stopped doesn't mean they don't know you are on their land so a bit of respect goes a long way and hopefully we can enjoy their backyards for many years to come

cheers

"their land"???

Which part of Australia isn't "their land"

If you honestly subscribe to the concept of "their land" and "our land" e.g. your backyard or any commonly used street or whatever, why don't you pack up your stuff and go back to your ancestral homeland?

Or maybe the entirety should be ours collectively.

Just a thought

Cheers
Pop

Pop settle down mate and not make this personal

By their land I am meaning the land for which they are occupying there are several mobs that occupy various lands, such as Birriliburu, Martu, Ngurrara & Tjurabalan just on the Canning alone so I see this as their home and as such respect it as such.

You have taken what I have said very deeply why I do not know but I think that you need to maybe calm down and respect others opinions as they respect yours

You know nothing about me or where I come from - I am a proud Australian - this is my home

cheers

I think he was talking to me ??

I agree with the entirety being ours...that is all the people who are Australians..

Gronk,
Your comment "I'm not aware of anyone being jailed for breaking "their" laws.....I didn't know "they" had their own laws ??" makes no sense.
The laws that prohibits alcohol consumption there is a national law - os if you want to segregate it, it is OUR law. The aboriginal nations had no need for laws relating to alcohol because they had no alcohol.

Fact is there are different laws for consumption of alcohol in many places - alcohol free zones abound in cities all over Aus, for example.
This is just another restriction on where you can drink booze - it shouldn't be a major drama. Only problem with not having a drink is that it will evaporate! ;)

I was replying to someone else's post that implied "they" had laws different to "ours"..

I don't like referring to "them" and "us" because we are all Australians......and it's why I don't agree with "us" needing permission to travel through "their" land..

So Gronk you would be happy for me to camp in your back yard and do as I please without your permission ?

What is your address ?

You don't understand where I'm coming from....I've heard all this stuff before.....they live in a community.....why can't I travel along the road thru the top end and thru their community.....I have no interest to go into their backyard !! The government gave them a large land grant, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it .. But don't worry, I will never go into an area where I have to pay for the privilege of driving along a public road..

They are allowed to travel thru all of Australia and thru our community....but obviously not our backyard either !!

I never mentioned doing as I pleased, that's why I won't go there, I can still understand a law...even if I don't agree with it ..

So gronk will never pay to go on a public road. Ever since you have been driving you have been paying!!! Most permits are free! Your not allowed to drink in a huge amount of public areas in Aus. You have signed a legal binding paper that spells out expected behaviour and responsibilities.

One of the big issues is the people who are on the outskirts of the community getting wind of travellers camped out along the track and targeting them for grog. This is when the humbugging begins and can lead to violence. Now many on here will say.."oh, but its never happened to me". And how many years have you been on that track? I,ve had it happen because I spent a lot of time in remote areas where grog is an issue.

At the end of the day there is one simple thing to do.

Man up..don't sneak around with grog. Contact the local copper and tell them you reckon its all crap and you,ll be right to have a sneaky drink.

Rather than passing through I think a few people need to spend a few days in some of the grog affected communities and realise what S*&^holes of violence and despair they are because of grog.

Bigfish, you're right , I do pay rego, so in effect I pay to travel on PUBLIC roads.....
So, the roads thru say Arnhem Land are NOT public roads ?? Is that correct ?? If they are private roads, who pays for their upkeep ?? Who pays if you have an accident on a PRIVATE road ??

Don't have a go at me for grog issues that people have brought on themselves...and I haven't said I would break any rules regarding drinking out there either..but I haven't said I wouldn't either..

You know why those communities have problems with drugs and alcohol....they are stuck out there with nothing to do...no purpose to their lives...stuck in a time warp between old and new cultures....and no one has the proper answer on how to fix it ..

Gronk said "The government gave them a large land grant".

It's not a gift. It's a matter of establishing a long-standing traditional occupation, use of or cultural connection to the land to the satisfaction of a court. And it's not freehold that is granted by the court but certain use and occupation rights as far as I understand it.

All good and well , but , by that thinking we need to introduce alcohol bans not just in aboriginal communities , the Valley in Brisbane , Surfers on the Gold Coast , 50% of Cairns , Kings Cross in Sydney Etc Etc Etc , The problem does not stop because of 'prohibition' .. It simply moves to another area , you only have to travel to the area's where prohibition is in place to see on the outskirts the mountains of empties ….

"So respect this law as best you can, but in the least give some thought to why it is in place…"

I vividly remember a conversation with a Police Officer who was on a break from the Lands and he had me in tears telling a story of a girl aged 9 whose parents fell into the Alcohol & Violence struggle, her brother took his life at 22, she felt helpless so at age 9 she too committed suicide.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do except for trying to break the cycle, and that means not consuming alcohol where it is not permitted thus ensuring that it minimises the problem, I know there are those that will make a business running alcohol into the communities, but they do catch them.

cheers

Motherhen's response above is perfectly correct. It is a requirement not to consume alcohol while traversing these roads. We have just finished travelling the Gary Junction Road and were on the Great Central Road two years ago. Not once were we asked for our permits and locals all told us that they had never heard of travellers being asked to show the permit.

But it is easy enough to get the permits and for peace of mind we do the right thing and carry the required pemits.

I will not moralise about drinking alcohol on the GJR. People do choose to have a cold drink at the end of a day's travel. They run a very small risk of being caught but it is a personal choice whether they break the rules. The folk I saw having an alcoholic drink had no addiction problems. But the communities certainly do have problems, hence the laws. I make no judgement either way about drinking alcohol in these areas.

Think of it like this, if you had a rental property & the tenants signed a lease with a no pets clause, would you be upset if you found out that they had a couple of dogs inside your house??

Geez, it's gone from an enquiry about having a couple of cold beers to a rental property ???

So, is a permit anything like a lease ??? nah, didn't think so !!

And if I need a permit to travel over some land...is it public land or private land ??

Hey Gronk , hope no one reads Omaa's thread 119212 and attached blog or they're gonna cop a lecture as well !!!

Steve how many ways do you need to be told it isn't the right thing to do, if you want to be a smart arse then ask your questions else where.

Personal if you want to drink on aboriginal land and break you agreement, then do so, but don't come back here and whinge later.

My EXPERIENCE is if you get caught your in the sh1t, take it or leave it.

If you don't think you will like the answer to a question then don't friggin ask it.

My point was that an agreement is an agreement, regardless of its reference, an application for a permit constitutes a contract, if you don't intend to abide by it, don't enter in to it!!

I'll just take you all back to my original point "give some thought to why these laws are in place".

Alcohol and violence, partners in abuse, or the scourge of many outback communities...

It is worth reflecting on...well at least that is my viewpoint!

Baz - The Landy

Anthony......he never said he wasn't going to comply with whatever the permit says....he asked what others thought...and he got a lot of answers..

When you go onto a thread, it's best to read the 1st post and see what someone actually asked..

One question I asked still hasn't been answered, and that is....is the Gary Junction road a public rd or a private rd ??

Gronk

I did read Steve's original post and all the others - over the last several days.

I have pasted Steves post so you don't have to scroll back up to the top.

"I have my permits for NT & WA sections of Gary Junction Rd. Permit allowes alcohol to be transported through Aboriginal Lands but not consumed on them. What are peoples experiences , does anyone check or police this condition ?Is it safe to have a coldie after a hard day behind the wheel ?"

He states he has the permits - identifies the contract.

He acknowledges the conditions of the the permit - demonstrates understanding of the contract

He asks others if the conditions will be policed - identifies that he understands there are consequences if the contract is breached.

He asks if it is "safe" to breach the conditions - demonstrates intent.

That seems petty clear cut to me that he isn't going to comply to me Gronk! I think it might even meet the conditions of "premeditation".

Even if I read back over Steve's replies, I don't think I will find one that states he DOES intend to comply. Given the veracity of the responses he has received, one would assume he would've stated his intentions by now.

With reference to your question;

"One question I asked still hasn't been answered, and that is....is the Gary Junction road a public rd or a private rd ??

If you read your followup, I think you might find you were having a rant about Arnhem Land. You did not ask a question about the Gary Junction Road.

Again I have pasted it here so you don't have to scroll up

Gronk posted:

Bigfish, you're right , I do pay rego, so in effect I pay to travel on PUBLIC roads.....
So, the roads thru say Arnhem Land are NOT public roads ?? Is that correct ?? If they are private roads, who pays for their upkeep ?? Who pays if you have an accident on a PRIVATE road ??

What is they say?

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!"

Regards

Anthony

Hi Anthony , yes I have copped a bit of flack & maybe been a bit prejudged by some , but maybe that's because I should have included a bit more info in original question.
Contrary to some of the assumptions expressed by previous replies to this thread , I rarely drink alcohol and regularly travel solo in remote areas with none in my possession. I sometimes carry a small amount to socialize with fellow travelers as it is fairly common to be invited to join other campers for their "happy hour" and be offered some of their beers if you don't have your own. The reason I asked the original question is that this time I will have a mate travelling with me who does enjoy a beer most afternoons.
As others have said above I have experienced other laws that are not enforced. For example I have been to National Parks where fires are banned but local ranger checked that I had enough wood !
As I have not travelled Gary Hwy before I just wanted to hear local experiences. I didn't want to tell my mate we couldn't have a beer and they get to Jupiter Well and find every other camper sitting around enjoying a "happy hour" , then he would have given me a flogging !
I did not defend my self earlier as I have been amazed at the number of responses and passion expressed about this subject.
For the record , I will be happy to have my vehicle & contents inspected for compliance if requested. I don't intend to risk my holiday , vehicle & contents for the sake of a couple of dry days.
Thanks all for the advice offered