Dueler 697s vs BFG A/Ts

I have just replaced my Kelly Safari TSRs with another set after 84,000km of incident free travel. Mine are on a Prado 120 often towing either a TVAN or AOR Quantum.

Thanks Stephen. I can echo all your comments except the sidewall damage. I think my thread is a reasonable question as the 697 s are supposed to be "outback" tested,and how they go against the American brands.
We are doing the same tracks later in the year. That said the Toyos are sounding better by the minute.

I recently went through a similar process. I was pretty determined to give the new BFG AT KO 2 a go.
But there are quite a few reports of the tread cracking badly after only a few thousand kms. Reports on both the Land Cruiser and Patrol forums as well as a few in the US. Many of the owners have been BFG fans for years. Dunno if it is a batch or common. BFG have not got back to most people complaining. That was enough for me to look elsewhere.

I tossed up between the Bridgestones and TOYO AT2 which had a lot of good reviews. It is a mildly aggressive tyre with a good deal of tread. I got the AT2 at $273ea F&B, a good price I thought, and as a bonus they had 285 65 17 which was ideal for me. They are too new to comment other than to say they are a little noisier than I thought but still ok. ) Noisier than MT 5 rib ( chipped badly) and Goodyear Kevlar Silent Armour ( which only lasted 50000kms and bloody expensive.)


BFG KO2 3000kms almost totally on the bitumen showing cracks - all 4 tyres the same.

Hi Boobook

Cracking might be one thing, but having chipped blocks is another. I could not believe how the blocks chipped on the camper on our BFG's to the point that you would have thought they were Cooper tyres.

From what I have since found out, they are now using a new rubber tyre compound and their tyres are as good as they used to be years ago, yet they still bring a very big premium price.

Not sure what pricing you paid, but I paid $240 per tyre for my Toyo's, compared to $320 for the Bridgestone and $380 for the BFG in the 265 /65 17" LT size.

At those prices alone ! The BFG needs to do some serious research as to why their tyres are not as good as the were in the past.

Let's hope all the reports are true and we get a great run out of the new Toyo's.



Cheers



Stephen

Yes I don't know the significance of the cracks, but they do look as though they could be starting points for big chips. Dunno.....

The only concern I have about the Toyo AT2 is that I read it is 2 ply somewhere, compared to 3 for others so I do wonder about the sidewalls and Mulga spiking, but I do like the fact that the sidewalls are relatively smooth which should help in that regard.

I paid $273 ea for 285 65 17 which I thought was pretty good - $240 huh?. I do think they go on special regularly at tyrepower and Kmart said they would match any price with free balancing for the life of the tyres.

Price wasn't a major consideration, but at that price verses the BFG, if all else is equal ( and it nearly is for what I want) then I would have to get about 50% more wear out of the BFG to be the same value. That is a lot and unlikely.

It will be interesting to see how your tyres compare over time in the places you loiter Stephen, though trailer tyres seem to cop it more.

Toyo comes in both passenger and LT in most common sizes. The LT is 3 ply per most other brands.
For me, 'wear' is of less importance than things like stopping ability in the wet - something I have found a half worn BFG has very little of over the years.
Once a tyre is half worn I want it to quietly die so I can get some more, rather than go hard and try to kill me.
The 'newer' tread patterns seem to also pick up and throw much less stone than the old vertical treads - something to keep in mind.

gbc, I just called Toyo Australia and they confirmed that it is only 2 ply in the LT :-(

They also have a M55F which has tougher sidewalls and puncture resistance. They said it is not great on road in the wet though and usually sold to mines.

I'd be interested in anyone that has had these.

Stephen et al,

Just a comment on BFG's. Up to about 10 years ago, I ran these, AT's, on an 80 series, for 10-12 years. From memory, only had one or perhaps 2 punctures in over 250K, no blowouts, but had almost alarming chipping and associated wear rates. Doubt if we ever achieved 40K out of a set, and I was "happy" if we achieved 35K.

It may be a lot to do with where one lives. We were living down the Diamantina, where our access road to civilisation was on par with the Birdsville/Strezlecki Tracks, and often worse. A lot of our bitumen travel was in the Jan/Feb months, heading for boarding schools and salt air, so wear rates would have been high. All in all, they were a great tyre, and we always got home.

Fitted 697's to my old ute, and they've been good, with no chipping. Except I'm selling the ute, would get probably over 40K out of the Bridgestones?

Bob

BooBook, yes, my blue. They have changed construction for the new OPAT2 from the original OPAT which I didn't pick up on. The older style (still on the market) will buy you an extra sidewall ply in LT construction - apparently. Toyo aren't good at disclosing this info.

gbc, not sure of the actual situation but I asked about the AT, they said that it is no longer available and there is no stock at all in the warehouse, but the IT team is slow updating the website to remove it. There could be a bit of stock in retailers though I guess. If you want an original AT you may be out of luck.

I have the AT2's now so lets see how they go. They still seem to get good reviews for toughness in the US.

Hi Paul

As you would have read above, I was very happy the way the Brudgestone performed, both on and off road. If fact I started off with the 694 LT's before the went to the 697, so have used both styles.

Like you I thought that they would wear better and was the main reason why I have now just gone over to new new Toyo AT2 in the LT construction.

Time will tell, but for $60 per tyre cheaper for me, even if they wear at the same rate as the Brudgestone, I am still way out in front.



Cheers



Stephen

Thanks Stephen,
Will have a look at them.
Only problem is my spares are both D697s - Like to keep them all the same. But they look like a similar tread pattern anyway
I am buying the D697s @ $250 each in Melb - A $60 per tyre saving would be huge at that price
Cheers.

Hi Pmk03 .I have 2 Coopers as spares.Funny when I bought the Kelly tyres the owner of Tyrepower said waste of money to buy 5 new tyres.As rotating 4 is good enough.AS long as the same size and AT tyre.Getting flat tyres is luck of the draw.I had Duellers on Landcruiser when I went to Qld and got 2 punctures both on bitumen and both bloody nails ..Also worked in Cooper Basin had Michelin sand tyres not a flat tyre in 3 years but the next year heaps.Maybe Michelin changed something or bad batch .Best
I suppose is to travel bush with brand new tyres from beginning and right tyre pressures..cheers

Another thing that put me off Bfg , but they may have fixed it these days , was we saw a lot of Bfg's seperate ( tread area layers coming apart) when they still had some tread life left. The old 604 duellers would wear down absolutely bald and still be going!

Hi Shane

Thanks for that very honest and interesting comment.

When I have spoken to some honest tyre dealers, like you they said that the BFG were a very over rated tyre for the premium price you pay.

I do have a set on my Ultimate camper, and based on who they travelled last year, would never put them on my Prado.


Cheers


Stephen

Just my 2 bobs worth. I have mostly run Bridgestone in a few patterns and sizes. Always had good wear, very few punctures and never (so far..lol) damaged a sidewall. Grip on wet bitumen ok I guess. I avoid mud like the plague. Mainly rock, corrugated tracks/roads and lots of beach work.
Many years ago a mate bought a 60 series (yeah,many, many years ago) to which he fitted a set of BFGs. Too long ago to remember the exact type/name but along the lines of a AT type tread. The first one started to delaminate after about 20,000 k's. He got it replaced on a pro rata basis. The next one did the same after about another 5000k's. Same deal, replaced pro rata. When the next one started that dreaded thump thump thump he diced the lot and replaced with a set of Bridgestones.

Maybe a crook batch, but it turned him off the brand for good.

Personally I have 2 sets. The ones I use around town and beach work, although they did drag our van around Oz including the GRR last year. These are 10.5x 15 Desert Duelers.
The other set are 235x85 16 10 PR on the dreaded split rims and get put on if we are heading for the stakey desert country. I have the cheapest Hankook and Kumho's fitted to them. Never had a problem with the Hankooks but probably wouldn't go the Kumhos again after a couple of failures on country that the Hankooks on the front crossed without a drama.

Cheers
Pop

Hi Again TE AZ

I should have also stated that because I have never ever worn at set out, it does not mean that they were all damaged. As we travel many great outback destination, the very last thing that anyone needs is for tyres to fail on us.

To this point, and again based on facts from many travellers both here and other sources, I replace my tyres when they get down to around the 50% wear Mark.

I can hear many people thinking that is just crazy and why not wear them out to get their true tyre wear. Well the fact is that if you travel the roads that we do on a tyre they is nearly bald, your chances of tyre damage and punctures will go through the roof.

There was one time heading up to Birdsville that we came across 2 vehicles on the side of the track, with on guy looking quite destredded. As you do, we pulled up to see if we could help out. The problem was the guy from Melbourne had set out with tyres that in my books were buggered, with less than a couple of mm of tread left. He had picked up 2 punctures and his mates vehicles was different stud pattern and tyre size.

Within 15 minutes I had his tyres plugged and pumped up again and we were on our way again and wondered if the guy would make it into Birdsville seeing that we had not puncture repair kit or pump. If on the other hand his tyres had more than 50% tread left, I do not think he may have suffered the punctures.

As before, time will be the best judge on how the new Toyo AT2 go, and if I am not happy with them, it will be back to the 697's.


Cheers



Stephen

G'day, what size Toyo's and where abouts as that is a bloody good price?

Toyo LT265/ 65R17s R120 load rating at Tyrepower Mackay and they have 22 in stock and I have the quote beside me that's valid for 30 days which is very handy. Maybe they are a good price because they may be supplying them to users in the coal fields, I know I am pretty happy with the price.

The other prices were $285 and $295 at other local dealers.

Steve keep in mind that the ply rating, despite the name has nothing to do with the nothing of plys or the puncture resistance of the tyres. It is old terminology for the load rating and the weight carry ing capacity. It is kind of a marketing trick.

For example a 10 ply tyre could be tougher than a 12 ply ( or not), but not be able to carry as much weight.

It is bloody confusing.

Boobook, spot on.