I know you shouldn't but ....

Submitted: Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:12
ThreadID: 133055 Views:5203 Replies:28 FollowUps:25
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Hi,
Just got a stake in one of my newish tyres.

The tyre places will not fix it as they reckon it is on the side wall, even if high up.

I though that would be the case but was considering as just keeping it as a second spare and plug it.

Would this work? May be not legal but it is for an emergency use only. I may be towing a van at the time as well. The idea sounds worse the more I talk about it.


Interesting thing is I picked up the puncture from my TPMS. It didn't go nuts as it was a very slow leak. I noticed the pressure on the tyre had dropped to 2-3 less than the other back tyre. So pumped them up and monitored again. Notice some thing similar and investigated a bit further and found the problem.
Even though a very slow leak when I did pull out the nail it sure wasn't. The TPMS didn't save the tyre but probably saved me the pain of having to change the tyre in a more awkward situation.

You can see in the pic where the problem is.





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Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:03

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:03
Rich - Tyre places are out to sell new tyres, not to save you money. A simple nail hole where a tyre carcass hasn't been overheated, or the plies haven't been damaged, is a no-brainer for a simple repair and re-use.

We used to repair radial truck tyres at Bell Bros tyre repair business, that had stakes through the sidewall up to 100mm long.
The repair involved buffing the area surrounding the stake hole, and a vulcanised patch, with additional rubber added, if needed.
Provided that no more than a couple of cords or plies were broken, it was a guaranteed repair.
These tyres would go on to carry full loads for their whole life, and quite often, be recapped as well.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 602649

Reply By: Member - Milton477 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:14

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:14
I'd be asking myself what the risks are of running a staked tyre like your's as a spare. The answer would be none.

What about then when it is not a spare & is now in use as another tyre is punctured? I personally think that if there is no obvious damage inside the tyre & it was plugged properly, I would happily risk it "within reason" until the other tyre was fixed.

I would regardless however replace it along with another tyre when wear on the non punctured tyres dictated a change. This is a good case for TPMS which I do not have yet.
AnswerID: 602651

Reply By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:23

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 13:23
Thanks for the replies.

The hole was VERY small. While the nail was in and it was a very small nail it was losing about 1-2 psi per day.

Once I pulled that out it was a different story.

I am not that skilled at repairing tyres. I have used plugs a couple of times but reckon there are better options as mentioned. It is a DISCO 4 and getting the tyres off those are beasts- why I went for second spare tyre and rim instead of just a tyre.

The trouble is finding some one who will do it for me. I went to two places who were keen to sell me a new tyre and would not fix it. One was very helpful though as they changed over to my spare without cost.

Need to keep looking I guess.In a pinch I would just plug it.

If i used it would be an emergency only and I would drive accordingly.

Thanks again
Richard
AnswerID: 602653

Follow Up By: GarryR - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:04

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:04
Hi Rich, I would suggest that you only use that tyre on the rear and not as a steer wheel for obvious reasons. That's my 2bobs worth
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:33

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:33
Rich, I had a puncture in a similar area to yours, only I had two holes about two inches apart. No idea what caused it as nothing was found.

I went to a tyre shop in Meekatharra to buy a new one, and he talked me out of buying it. He put a couple of patches on the inside and sent me on my way.

His only advise was try to keep it off the front.
Cost me $16.00 and he could have sold me a new one he had for $359.00 and taken him less time to do it.

I thanked him and was on my way.

I try, if possible to get repairs done in smaller towns, where people in most cases what to help you.

Cheers
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:29

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:29
I don't regard the Tyre Repairers as doing anything else but trying to protect you from yourself and any unwise decision you may make.
If the tyre could be safely repaired they would do it. It is not as if you are in a remote location and only have one dealer trying to flog you an overpriced tyre.

Mate, they are doing you a favour. Ditch it a buy a new one.
Sometimes you just got to accept "the umpire's" decision.

I destroyed two 3 week old Bridgestone tyres on the Birdsville Track and had to buy two new ones at Birdsville. Cost me $350 per tyre and what was worse, the new ones were bloody Coopers!
I had run them flat for two long and destroyed the inside of them.




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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:37

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:37
Hi Bill,

I'd have to disagree with you there - its not about protecting our interests, its about protecting theirs.

I once waived all responsibility etc etc they still wouldn't fix my tyre. If I had an accident they reckon I would sue them - even though I said I wouldn't.

Gee, as a consequence I have to buy a full set of tyres every time I get back from the bush. Though I do have plenty of bush capable tyres sitting in the backyard now so I never have to worry about having spares or second spares.

Cheers
Alan

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:23

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:23
I wonder how many times businesses have been conned by " I promise I won't sue you"?

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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:18

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:18
Back in your box Shaker

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In whatever comes our way.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 08:41

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 08:41
Sorry if I struck a nerve, but I've been in retail long enough to know that in many cases buyers are liars!
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Reply By: vk1dx - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:46

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 14:46
Personally I would toss it.

I cut a tyre's side wall on a drive through the Alpine area just last year. We left the group and came home in case I damaged another tyre. Which was very likely as we were driving some tracks with very sharp rocks.

I tossed it out. It's not worth the risk.

I can't imagine how I could live when trying to save a few dollars I injured or killed someone, especially my wife. Such a small price in comparison to pay.

Phil
AnswerID: 602659

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 09:30

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 09:30
"Toss it" to me then, I'll happily use it, from your descriptions it is no more than a slow leak that can be patched and be as good as new.
CJ
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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:02

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:02
It is all about liability and insurance.

Most places won't fix a tyre with side-wall damage, those that do run the risk of a liability issue should that tyre blow and cause an accident.

Mind you, there is a reson it is a potential liability issue, it is deemed unsafe. Perhaps it could be argued a small repair in the side-wall would be okay, but there is no upside for the repairer by fixing it.

If you are in the bush and have no alternative, than fix it and replace at opportunity.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

AnswerID: 602660

Reply By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:21

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:21
Thanks all

Both sides of the fence are worth considering. I can understand there may be legal issues involved. I would only use it if I am stuck some where .

I must admit my preference is to go new as I was rotating the six tyres. I would still be able to do this if I got a new one as the tyre are in good nick and not that old, why I was hoping I could still use it .

I may just use it to practise plugging tyres for awhile and get a new one later.

Richard
AnswerID: 602661

Reply By: Griff61 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:41

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 15:41
I had a sidewall repaired by a place called Seaton Tyres here in Adelaide and they plug and volcanize the inside and out and just like new. They even guarantee the repair. They are the only mob in Adelaide that I know of that does it.
AnswerID: 602662

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 16:04

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 16:04
Bit far to come from where I am ??

But I will keep looking before I go using it for practise

Richard
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Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 17:28

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 17:28
There are some well researched and backed articles on the net about this issue.
Remember most of the tyre stores don't employ clever people.
They intentionally limit what they will repair to only the very simplest repairs and they have very crude and simplistic rules about what can be repaired.

My understanding is that this CAN be legally and safely repaired ..... just that most tyre stores have neither the skill nor the knoweledge to do this.

check this
http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_rules.html

cheers
AnswerID: 602668

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 17:54

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 17:54
The caveat is that it needs to meet the Australian Standard for repair and Mick Hutton acknowledges that.

Generally, sidewall repairs do not meet the standard...



Cheers, Baz - The Landy



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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 11:41

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 11:41
the problem is generality ....... not specific situations.

You can generalise all you like ...... it is the specifics that matter.
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Reply By: lancie49 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 18:32

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 18:32
Fair enough p'raps that YOU will use it only as an emergency spare, but further down the track if and when you sell the vehicle, you will be sure to remove that 'repaired' tyre from the vehicle so no unsuspecting driver can use it unaware of the repair.
On another tack, if you do fit that tyre after another puncture on the vehicle, what happens if that repair does let go or it is punctured again ?
Do you carry 2 spares ?

Lance
AnswerID: 602670

Reply By: Sigmund - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 18:47

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 18:47
I had a small hole in the shoulder of an AT tyre. Same response from a tyre place. The noodle that I then glued in worked fine.

It's dead easy to do.
AnswerID: 602672

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:53

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:53
Do yOu mean a plug?

Richard
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 01:34

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 01:34
Yes.
........
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Reply By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:02

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:02
"I know you shouldn't but..."

...then why do it?

Cheers

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AnswerID: 602674

Reply By: Michael H9 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:26

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:26
I wouldn't plug a sidewall, I'd patch it on the inside. I had one done by Adam at the Pink Roadhouse when he was still alive. It seemed to work fine as an emergency fix.
AnswerID: 602676

Reply By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:43

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 19:43
Not sure if I mentioned it but if I keep it then it will be my second spare.

Re passing onto some one else. Not likely. I will be going through a number of tyres before selling it.

From comments above it does sound it could be repaired to a point. That is what I would be looking for and why I would do it.

I know the general rule is in side wall then trash it but this really is a very small hole and seems a shame to trash it BUT I will if I have to.

Many thanks for replies

Ruchard
AnswerID: 602678

Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 20:46

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 20:46
Hi Rich
I go along with Ron N . I was a tyre dealer in a country area . We major repaired tyres of all sorts. That is buffing out and cooking/ vulcanising in new rubber. Tyre repair supply companies such as Rema TipTop (German company) supply materials and all the technical info including the limitations,to the repairers. If a 4x4 tyre has heaps of tread life left it would be worth doing. There would be businesses all over the country that do this , maybe mostly involved agricultural areas. Try good ole Google.
Another comment, plugs are only designed to be temporary repairs, and something to consider is , you can do more damage to the tyre by putting a plug in. Maybe then making it unrepairable. I have used them myself , but with tyre industry repair knowledge, I know when and where to use them, or stick em in and don't intend using the tyre again.
I've seen farmers keep jamming plugs in holes until the leak stops, one bloke had a dozen in one hole . that's on non road going machinery of course.
Straight thru the tread is pretty good, but I have seen where people have stuck a plug thru at a nail hole on the out side and actually driven in on a new angle and done more damage.
Then there are a lot of dodgy repairs that last for ages too.
Good luck
Sounds like you are on the right track anyway
Cheer
Robbo
AnswerID: 602682

Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 20:47

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 20:47
Forgot
By your photo it's only a pinhole so no real structural damage.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:33

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:33
Yep I think I will check out a few more before I go play with tyre

I live in the ACT which is a big nanny state so reckon I will have to a bit further a field to see if it is fixable


Richard

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Reply By: Member - Laurie K (WA) - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:15

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:15
You don't say which TPMS you have, but they are usually programmed to sound after a set decrease (or increase) in pressure or temperature. I had a slow leak that was indicated by the TPMS on my caravan. I was between towns, so pumped it up, and as the pressure dropped, the TPMS alarmed again, alerting me that it was time to pump up the tyres again. My TPMS works on 20% below the set pressure programming. If I set it at 40 lb, it would sound if the tyre reached 32 lb. The secret is to remember to reset it back after dropping tyre pressures for sand or off road work (having reset the pressure setting for the reduced pressure)
AnswerID: 602683

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:27

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:27
My tpms has the same thing

However in this case I had noticed that there was a 4 psi difference in the back tyres 38 on one an 34 on the other.

I pumped it up and then noticed another drop do suspected something wrong and checked more thoroughly.

Richard
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Reply By: Member - 8111COLIN - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:32

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:32
I had a nail in my tyre 3 weeks ago that i picked up on the Oodnadatta track nail went in right where your nail went in .
My tyres are BF Goodridge MT s i plugged it and did another 4000 kms on it, it's still on the car now .
my tyres were at 27 lbs at the rear towing camper .

Colin
AnswerID: 602684

Reply By: splits - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:32

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:32
Rich
A small hole like that in that location should be an easy and legal repair in accordance with the Australian Standards. Rema Tip Top will have the correct size reinforced patch. The hole is then cleaned and filled with uncured rubber and the whole lot vulcanised together.

Try ringing Rema Tip Top. They don't have a sales outlet listed in the ACT on their web siteRema Tip Top so ring their Sydney depot. They have mobile reps covering the whole country or they did when I bought a few things from them a couple of years ago. They will tell you who their rep is in your area and he will be able to tell you who does major repairs because chances are he will be supplying them with all the equipment they need.


If that does not work, and you can wait until mid October, then ring Mick Hutton from Beadells. He and his wife, Connie Sue Beadell, live on a rural property about 5 ks out of Canowindra in central NSW. He is licenced to do major repairs and runs his own business doing it during the off season for their desert 4wd touring company. phone number
AnswerID: 602685

Reply By: desray (WA - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:33

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:33
try another tyre shop,, they can vulcanize it to repair . I have had several done in Perth.
AnswerID: 602686

Reply By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:39

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 21:39
Many thanks
I am starting to feel more hopeful.

It is worth checking further

I will get in touch with REMA next week as am heading towards Sydney next weekend .

Richard
AnswerID: 602688

Reply By: TomH - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:20

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:20
Read here
http://www.gotyres.com.au/mobile-puncture-repairs-tyre-repair.php
And here
Vic roads rulings
And here
http://journal.mtansw.com.au/12/april/div_nb_april12.php
And here
https://www.beaurepaires.com.au/advice/tips-and-advice/repairing-tyres
AnswerID: 602690

Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:24

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:24
Quick read of these links, and I see they are referring to "minor repair"
Which is all most tyre places are capable of .
" major repair" is when the tyre is hot vulcanised as I referred to in my earlier reply, just the problem of finding the businesses that do them.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: splits - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:34

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:34
TomH

I noticed some of those links say you can only repair small thread punctures.

Have a look through this list of repair equipment and where it is used on the tyre.

patches etc.

No wonder the last Rema Tip Top rep that I saw was driving a 6 ton pantech and its shelves were packed to the roof
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:27

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:27
Buy a tyre plug kit, get shown how to use it, repair it yourself, & shoulder the responsibility!

AnswerID: 602691

Reply By: 508 - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:42

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:42
Hi Rich,
Most are trying to save their backsides for your safety, which is fair enough.
You yourself knows the tyre more than anyone else. Judging from the photo it looks like the nail entered the shoulder, not the side wall, and you mentioned staking the sidewall, which is not the case.
Did the tyre delaminate?
Did the tyre run underinflated and overloaded for some time?
Did the tyre blokes take the tyre of the rim to thoroughly assess the condition of the carcass?
Have you damaged the sidewalls on a kerb or sharp object?
Have you had an ugly piece of metal bolt or stick go through it and damage the construction of the tyre?
Have you only got a small nail hole that lets air out? So maybe you have a good tyre that leaks air. As a number of reply's have mentioned tyres can be repaired, just goggle tyre repair kits, they don't make them for nothing.
Tyres blow out if under inflated, over inflated, over loaded, high speed, high temperatures, damaged sidewalls, hitting hard sharp objects or a combination of a number of these conditions.
If your tyre man tells you it can't be repaired without removing it and thoroughly
inspecting it, his probably not a qualified tyre repairer, just a salesman.
good luck

AnswerID: 602693

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:55

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 22:55
Tyre never went below 34psi

I think it was one of those staples they use in cardboard boxes

The tyre was never inspected other than a casual look.

Richard
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Terry 80FTE - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:36

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 23:36
Rema do a really good glue (color blue) use it with a plug if you're confident of getting it through the same hole, run it on the rear and monitor it as you do.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: 508 - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 08:57

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 08:57
Well there you have it, if you say the tyre hasn't suffered any of those catastrophe's, and on the proviso the tyre repairer upon removal and inspection, confirms the tyre is structurally sound , all the tyre may need is a good buff up and a suitable Rema patch placed on the inside of the tyre to seal the small air hole.
As you mentioned you have a tyre pressure monitoring system, the worst that can happen if the seal fails you'll pick up a loss of air pressure again.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 09:18

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 09:18
Thank for the replies

I am trying to find a place who will actually examine the tyre other than see where it is and then reckon I need a new tyre.

I have only tried two so far but will try some others before I have a go myself.

The tyre will become my second spare.





Richard
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:41

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 00:41
Hi again all
A story about repairing tyres.
I had a customer come in (country area) and he had some obscure tyre size with damage that shouldn't have been repaired.I had nothing to put on New or secondhand to even suffice as a spare. I used to keep all sorts of usable secondhand tyres just for these occasions.
Since he lived 100 k away, I offered to repair it just so he had a spare, but wouldn't balance it, so as to discourage it being used long term .I fixed the leak. Then the guy proceeded to try to get me to balance it , even offering to pay me extra.
That's certainly why some tyre people won't repair some stuff because there are some idiots out there.
If he had persisted to much I think I would have sliced a bl..dy big hole in it, and sent him 100 k home with no spare at all!
I thought after I should have taken his money and did a dummy balance and put a heap on opposite so it would shake his teeth out. Ha ha.
Cheers
AnswerID: 602695

Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 16:29

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 16:29
tyre repair,a cheap trick i saw in india years ago,a piece of old tyre bolted to the outside of the wall with coach bolts the round heads were inside .plus whatever else to not damadge the tube.was being driven on the usual heavy over loaded truck.bye barry
AnswerID: 602713

Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 22:06

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 22:06
Let's get things into perspective here. The OP says he got a VERY SMALL HOLE in a sidewall, from a NAIL.
The tyre has not been run flat, it does not have a bruised carcass, it wouldn't have broken plies, the nail would merely have speared between the plies and perforated the rubber.

The people advocating the tyre be scrapped obviously have little understanding of just how bloody tough, tyres are.
These people happily sit in big jets, where the tyres are smacked into concrete pavement at 250+ kmh - from a static position.
The tyres get dragged, smoking and screeching for hundreds of metres, while they spool up to the full 250kmh speed - at the same time as dozens of tonnes of aircraft weight, is thumped down onto them!
On top of this - those tyres are often likely to be RETREADS!!

I guess all those pussies who say the OP's tyre needs to be scrapped, should stop flying and landing and taking off, on those lousy crap retreads!

These same people happily punch their way along old tracks littered with gibbers, in their 4WD's, at speed - where their tyres are getting the crap pounded out of them by sharp rocks, hundreds of times a minute!!
They then reckon a blokes tyre with a miniscule NAIL HOLE in it - through the rubber - means the tyre needs to be immediately scrapped!!

I'd be more worried about the bloke from the city coming towards you in his $200 Magna or his $300 Commonore - who has never checked his tyre pressures in 5 years - has run every second tyre on his heap, flat - and then pumped them up again and kept going!

This same bloke has got half-cut, and smacked and bashed his Magna/Commonore/BogMobile into kerbs, steel projections, gateposts, or any one of a thousand other tyre-damaging items - all of which have fractured cords, bruised his tyre carcasses, until they bulge - and he's happily driving towards you at 100kmh on those things, that are definitely blowouts just waiting to let go!!

Tyres will take an enormous beating. They will function happily for years with major repairs - provided they are done properly.
A nail hole is not a major repair. It is a simple repair, which done properly by a professional tyre repairer, will provide the same level of safety and security and tyre performance, as a new tyre.

Believe me, I have had major, major repairs carried out on hundreds and hundreds of tyres, worn them out, and had them retreaded afterwards, as well.
The only time I have actually blown a tyre is during the days of crossply tyres.
I blew a front (crossply) tyre on a truck once, because the carcass had been seriously damaged by a rock, and I was unaware of it.

I have bought new Dunlop tyres for one ute in the late 1970's - and every one of those tyres fell apart in the carcass, due to manufacturing faults - while I was driving the ute!
They developed huge bulges in the carcass as the plies separated - until the unbalanced tyres virtually made the ute undriveable!

Despite all that - not one of those lousy, crappy Dunlops, ever blew out - even with the major manufacturing flaws!!
I merely whipped them off when it was obvious they had major problems - and I was amazed that tyres so faulty, and out of round in the carcass, could still perform their job!

The OP doesn't have to scrap his near new expensive tyre - all he needs is a professional minor repair, and there is no reason why it could not be guaranteed to perform as a new one, afterwards.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 602730

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 22:23

Saturday, Jul 23, 2016 at 22:23
Ron,
What can say ??

I will certainly be trying to find some one to fix it.

I have emailed REMA tip top to see if I can get help but reckon a phone call would be better. I will do that next week.

I am heading towards the blue mountains/Sydney next week so if any one knows of tyre repair people with a more open mind in that area please let me know as I may be able to drop in on my way if the REMA people can't help. If they say to trash the tyre I will reconsider my options.

To all I have appreciated the many replies.

Richard


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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:34

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 12:34
Rich, your potential tyre fix will probably be governed by three main problems we have in Australia today ...

1. The numbers of people with the skills to do repairs such as this, is declining rapidly. No-one wants to get their hands dirty any more, and tyre repairs are hard, dirty work. The tyre industry isn't alone with this angle.

2. With the current cost of everything done locally, it's entirely likely a proper repair of the nail hole will equal the value of the tyre.
On that basis, it may be simply declared an uneconomic repair, by a tyre business that has high overheads.

3. The lawyer-driven abject fear of being sued until you have nothing left, if your repair fails - for any reason whatsoever.
I could write pages on why this lawyer-driven part of our society is such a burden on the nations productivity and inventiveness - but I won't.
Suffice to say, it will probably feature in many repairers decision-making processes as to whether they even consider doing the repair.

To expand on the damage and the repair process, let's look at what tyre repair is designed to achieve.

1. A patch or plug repair is designed to just simply stop air leaking from the tyre. A patch or plug does nothing as regards re-bonding holed rubber. The small hole in the rubber stays there, because it's deemed not to be a problem, and it will not progress to something larger and more dangerous.

2. A vulcanised tyre repair is designed to not only stop the air leaking from the tyre - it is also designed to rebond torn rubber that has exposed rayon plies or belts, and to give full, original conformity to the tyre.
This repair is also designed to prevent the ingress of moisture, salt, chemicals and abrasives from the road surface, into the tyre piles and steel belts - where the said contaminants can cause damage and corrosion to the rayon, nylon or kevlar plies - or corrosion to the steel wires in the tread belts.

A professional tyre repairer examines tyre damage carefully. He examines how the damage has penetrated the casing - whether the damaging object has just simply gone straight through at right angles, or whether the object has gone through at a steep angle and damaged more of the casing than is immediately visible.

Numerous times, a cut or tear in a tyre will have to be buffed back to find the limits of the cut or tear.
If the cut or tear reaches to the section where the tread meets the wall, or nearly to the bead - the tyre is deemed unrepairable.

A professional tyre repairer will examine the inside and the outside of the tyre casing carefully - looking for visible wrinkling lines, that indicates the tyre has been run flat for a substantial distance, which has caused major casing damage, and made the tyre unrepairable.

He will also look for bruising of the casing, where a tyre has received a major blow from a rock or other hard item such as concrete kerbs or other projections, that has seriously damaged the casing, and broken plies or de-laminated them.
In the case of finding serious and damaging bruises (usually indicated by a slight bubble), the tyre will be deemed unrepairable.

The repairer will also examine whether there are broken plies in the wall, or fractured wires in the belts, and how many of them.
A couple of broken plies in the wall is still deemed as repairable, multiple broken plies is not. Fractured wires in steel belts, deem the tyre unrepairable.

As to the major worry of blowouts - let's examine them.
Blowouts are pretty rare in todays world. Blowouts are almost never caused by faulty repairs or dodgy patches on big holes.

Blowouts are caused by ...

1. Overloading the tyre
2. Impact damage from a solid large object (either immediate or delayed, depending on severity of the impact)
3. A massive cut that causes rapid air loss
4. An unnoticed small puncture that allows the tyre to slowly lose air over time, until it fails due to major heat build up and casing delamination.

I have had numerous blowouts, and most at high speed. I can tell you from personal experience, the single greatest chance of getting a blowout is from driving at speed on dirt roads that have recently been maintenance graded.

Maintenance grading brings trash, rocks and sharp sticks from the edges of the road formation, back into the centre and in the main tyre track ruts of the road - and buries them there.

A good maintenance grader driver will attempt to minimise this problem by carrying out multiple passes with the grader moldboard set on a steep angle to ensure the damaging trash, rocks and sticks is sieved out of the gravel and relocated to the road edges.

However, many maintenance grader drivers are careless, in a hurry to cover ground, and care little about the amount of trash they leave in the formation when doing road maintenance.

As a result, if you come across very recent dirt road maintenance, it pays to reduce speed substantially, and be very aware that there is likely to be tyre-damaging trash, rocks and sticks buried in the fresh, smooth road surface.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 602749

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:04

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:04
Ron
You raise some good points.

There is no point me driving 300km to find some one to fix it.

If not local then may as well get a new one. Being in the ACT where they typically have restrictions and controls on everything I suspect my chances of finding some one is low.

Over the next few months I do plan a few trips to Sydney and Bridbane way. May even go to birdsville.
I may take the tyre with me and see as having a second spare on that trip would be good idea as they are 19". I would only require it if I had two punctures. This can happen I guess. So can three and if you had 3 you would plug the tyre no matter where the hole was to get you out.

In the mean time it is a chance for me to get some experience in putting in plugs so may just put one in and see how it holds up.

Richard

Richard
1
FollowupID: 872385

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:50

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:50
If you happen to pass through Winton, I'll give you a hand to repair it, Richard.

Done plenty of similar repairs, and in most cases(is that a pun?) the tyre has gone full distance.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
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2
FollowupID: 872386

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:59

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:59
Bob
Ya never know. Many thanks for the offer.

We were in Winton last year. Enjoyed our time.

We were going to go further north to Kakadu and Gulf Country but have left it to late as we can't go until mid October. May be next year.

But still could go your way as more to see. Chase a few more dinosaurs.

We are kicking around options now.

The annoying thing is when I to get new tyres early in the year I got six and an extra rim for trips like that. Having potentially destroyed one driving around my home is just a pain. If I did it on the road I would have at least felt better about it ??


Richard

2
FollowupID: 872388

Reply By: Batt's - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2016 at 16:03

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2016 at 16:03
I was a conveyor belt splicer for 20 yrs and we used Tip Top Rema products on conveyor belts you can use the same glue and patches on tyres lots of tyre outlets use them. I patched a sidewall stake back in the late 80's I glued a reinforced patch inside the tyre it has a layer of ply in it for strength and for extra piece of mind and safety I got a tube fitted it worked fine. They do sell tyre repairs kits these days.
AnswerID: 602826

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