Towing Speed in Western Australia

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 12:41
ThreadID: 139341 Views:3663 Replies:12 FollowUps:78
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Just returned from trip East covering 12,000Km through NSW and SA, towing 3 tonne plus van behind Lovells GVM upgraded 2013 Land Cruiser 200 Series.

The speed limit for towing anything in WA is 100kph.

My experience from this trip and having towed for many years is that stability is seriously compromised at anything above this speed. Can find plenty of evidence on internet to support this.
It is very concerning to hear of excessive towing speeds adopted and encouraged by some readers on this forum.

Western Australian towing speed limit of 100kph is prudent here in this state which I have found has far superior roads to those experienced in NSW and SA.

This link may save some grief.https://www.rvbooks.com.au/page/caravan-rollovers-why-they-happen/

My preferred towing speed is around 95kph so hope not to hold up the cowboys out there who have never had a scare.
Cheers and safe travels.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 13:12

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 13:12
Hi sastra

Our experience has shown that most people with caravans and campers usually sit between 90 to 95 on the open road, which is not a problem at all, and will have far more control than a van sitting on 110 and just asking for trouble. The whole idea of hitting the road, it to enjoy your trip and not rush it and at the end of the day, what have the fast travellers gained, a few minutes at the end of the day and bigger fuel bill.

Every now and then you will get a large van pass you at well over the speed limit and they guys are usually the one that and up on YouTube.


Cheers



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Reply By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 14:35

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 14:35
I never go over 100kph, usually 90-95.

No gps only google maps, no- electric brake controller, dash cam, aircon, power steering, UHF radio or any other gadgets.

We survive quite well, pull over when we can if a queue mounts up behind us. Override brakes are fine.

No concern with getting caught speeding. Less chance of sway.

Simplifying things is more relaxing
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 15:21

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 15:21
eaglefree
Sad you don't use a UHF so any large truck can be communicated with and both parties then able to manage a passing or overtaking with increased safety. If the front wheels lose traction/grip during a braking emergency, your override brakes are not going to operate and are then useless and you simply cruise into oblivion. Good luck with that, I had that happen on a railway crossing with a car on tandem trailer. Water, rubber and oil on road meant almost zero braking. I stopped with boom gates resting on the HQ ute wiper blades. I like electric brakes. Override brakes are not fine, how do you only apply them retard the trailer? It is obvious you have survived so far.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:38

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:38
Over ride brakes on a biggish van is like using no seat belts......OK while the goings good, but downright dangerous in an emergency....especially in the wet.
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:46

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:46
My homemade van weighs ATM 1000kg usually 850kg when towed. 16ftx7ft full van with full ensuite. Built lightweight by me. Override brakes are fine. Do you have override brakes on your loaded garden trailer when you go to the tip? Not much heavier. Personally I'll never understand the joy of towing 3 ton or even two ton on the road. Did that in 1985 with a 20ft Franklin- no thanks.

UHF? as you guys know it isnt compulsory. If it was such a needy safety item it would be law to use one. If a truckie doesnt see clearly I cant pull over for whatever reason then he'll just have to be patient until the opportunity arises then once I do pull over I always get a flash of thankyou. So what's the issue here?

As is the flash to indicate its safe for them to pass and if needed I'll slow so the overtaking is quicker. No issue there either. UHF just another unnecessary piece of distraction.
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 09:53

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 09:53
Couldn't agree more EagleF. We do have a CB and do talk to truck drivers but otherwise drive much the same as you do.
90 - 95 is good and allows any others to get past safely within the limits and to help we'll slow down where possible. If they find it hard to get past that's their hard luck for being incompetent.
Problem is many drivers haven't advanced their driving skills since passing the test......
AlanTH.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 15:34

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 15:34
"Problem is many drivers haven't advanced their driving skills since passing the test"

Alan, agree completely. What's worse, the test they did pass was in many case a loooong time ago. And as there is no test for towing anything, let alone a caravan, the problem of situational inexperience can be huge and a disaster-in-waiting.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 16:37

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 16:37
Eaglefree, here is a quote from what you posted.

" UHF? as you guys know it isnt compulsory. If it was such a needy safety item it would be law to use one. If a truckie doesnt see clearly I cant pull over for whatever reason then he'll just have to be patient until the opportunity arises then once I do pull over I always get a flash of thankyou. So what's the issue here?

As is the flash to indicate its safe for them to pass and if needed I'll slow so the overtaking is quicker. No issue there either. UHF just another unnecessary piece of distraction."

What the problem here is I and many other truck drivers wouldn't take on scrap of notice re the indicator being an indication of safe to pass. I have no idea what your intension are because all road users are different in their thinking. I don't know if you will ease for me when I am out there , I don't know if you will increase your speed while I am overtaking. You don't know if it is safe for me to overtake as you don't know where my limiter is set, many are set between 95 and 103K depending on the prime-mover.

But that all changes if I talk to on the radio, I know what your intensions are and you know what mine are.

Simple things like, caravan to north bound Star got a copy. [ Yep ]. When you wish to overtake I will ease for you when you are out there. Normal response is [ thanks mate ]. Then you may get a call from the truck, I'm on my way. I know what the vanners intensions are and he knows mine so there are no chances of a misunderstanding or double guessing someone, which can be very dangerous.

A decent fella will then thank you and wish you well.

For me a uhf is definitely not a distraction but a great safety tool. Yes you get the galahs around towns with their grubby talk, but once up the road this disappears.

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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:33

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:33
Thanks 9900eagle for your account from a truckers view. I should imagine that such a crucial piece of equipment has had all caravan and the trucking industry protesting on the steps of state parliaments “we want uhf for caravaners-when do we want it?-now!”

I haven’t seen such protests. Why? Because of one critical factor- that as you know the driver behind the caravan should not overtake unless safe, that is his responsibility not the van rig drivers. Not safe? Don’t pass. Accept that all travellers on the road are entitled to cruise under the limit within reason.

It was only 40 years ago that car drivers had to sit behind truckers in their 911Mercs and be patient, now its pedal to the metal mentality for powerful trucks and 90-95 is too slow for them..

So you are telling me I should invest in suggested uhf for $$$ for the truckers benefit? You might think it’s safe holding a uhf mike towing 60 tons.. I’d rather both hands on the wheel. My choice as is not buying non compulsory gadgets.

But I respect your views.

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Follow Up By: Zippo - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 20:33

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 20:33
"the driver behind the caravan should not overtake unless safe, that is his responsibility not the van rig drivers. "

Indeed, but a large part of the problem is than van-haulers often display "less than professional" skills, judgement and AWARENESS. While I have seen some dodgy performances by truckers, they are far outnumbered by the stupidities I have seen exhibited by 'vanners.
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:51

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:51
eaglefree, so you drive 100% of the time with both hands on the wheel, well done.........
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:29

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:29
So eaglefree you wont drive a modern vehicle towing a modern trailer because 35 years ago you couldn't handle towing a 2 tonne van. You also say you put your indicator as a sign for a truckie to pass. You dont have modern electric brakes..just ancient over ride brakes. You find a uhf radio to be dangerous because you have to take a hand off the wheel to operate. You constantly sit on 90-95.

Sorry mate...your the driver that needs a caravan licence and an education on modern vehicles and braking. Virtually every truck on the road has a uhf radio. As do many caravanners and vehicles that spend time traveling on our highways. Putting your indicator on for someone to overtake is a lesson in idiocy. An indicator is there for you to signal your intention to turn. Over ride brakes are not worth a piece of billy goat crap when it comes to towing in gravel, rain, snow or even everyday suburban use. Electric brakes are 10 times more efficient and a hell of a lot safer. Obviously you always have a passenger as well so they can adjust the radio, wind your window down, adjust your glasses or even change gear because you drive 100% of the time with two hands. Sorry mate...it sounds like your still living in the 80,s.

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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:03

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:03
Argh Bigfish, the master manipulator

So you’ve changed my statement of
“ Personally I'll never understand the joy of towing 3 ton or even two ton on the road. Did that in 1985 with a 20ft Franklin- no thanks” to saying I couldn’t handles 2 ton van! It would be because I didn’t see the “joy” in towing one would it Bigfish? Yes, the old exaggerator.

You think towing 850kg caravan demands electric brakes- laughable

You don’t like me cruising at 90-95kph? What ya gunna do about it ?

Same as having” 2 hands on the wheel” you turn it into a drama. Think you should get basic driving lessons Bigfish
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 14:35

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 14:35
eaglefree, anything over 750kg must have brakes. Now, in theory over ride brakes may be legal, but they sure are not as safe as electric brakes with a proportional controller, but you sound like an old fella who doesn't see the need to spend a few bucks to modernize your setup. So, in an emergency, in the wet, you found yourself at an intersection where you got caught out and couldn't stop and ploughed into another car and you killed a small kid.....would that sit well with you ? And I know you'll say it wouldn't happen to me because I'm such a careful driver...but there are lots of careful drivers in hospitals all around the country !!
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 15:55

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 15:55
Gronk posted:
eaglefree, anything over 750kg must have brakes. Now, in theory over ride brakes may be legal, but they sure are not as safe as electric brakes with a proportional controller, but you sound like an old fella who doesn't see the need to spend a few bucks to modernize your setup. So, in an emergency, in the wet, you found yourself at an intersection where you got caught out and couldn't stop and ploughed into another car and you killed a small kid.....would that sit well with you ? And I know you'll say it wouldn't happen to me because I'm such a careful driver...but there are lots of careful drivers in hospitals all around the country !!

Hi Gronks

How many caravans have you built? Me, 2. One with an atm of 748kg, no brakes I towed around Oz without drama and this one 998kg with overrides. You know nothing about me yet you don’t put your post in terms of questions like “are you aware of Regulations with caravan brakes” then I’d tell you nicely that I spent 45 years in studying regulations and law enforcement. So forgive me if I feel lectured by a step father figure not unlike those pushing for my use of a UHF both topics I’m legal on eg uhf not mandatory and override brake can go to 2000kg.. lecture those guys before me on my under 1000kg van.
Do you lecture every owner of any trailer on not using override brakes if you do and you are so concerned have you lobbied various authorities on changing those laws?

Then comes the assumptions- I’m old (in fact highly likely much younger than you and I don’t want to spend “a few dollars” well I just spent $15,000 on my beaut caravan (fully complete, diesel heater, solar etc) yet again had you asked I would have told you I have my reasons but you didn’t. One is the van loaded is little more than a box trailer with wet sand. So in you long life Have you ever towed a box trailer of sand fully loaded and no brakes at all? No? Plenty do. One other is my capacity to pay for all these items a few insist I should have. You don’t know if I’ve been disabled for many years, if I’ve had no inheritance or no super unlike some here I’m happy for. So your “few dollars” becomes a sore point after battling to build my van that I’m very proud to have done with so many restrictions.

Then finally comes the guilt trip, you put Greta climate girl to shame. I think you would find my low centre of gravity 1000kg van towed with a 1240kg low c of g car with ample power at 90lph is far safer than those tugs you need a step ladder to enter, driven at 110+ Kph swaying away with the driver focussing on his uhf channels, gps, electric controller, DVD,CD, radio, computer read outs, eating donuts that has more chance killing that child than I

You make assumptions (that are wrong), don’t ask questions are judgemental guilt trippers and frankly not a nice friendly person. But I’ll survive, dealt with much worse in my life than some with poison pens
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 16:43

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 16:43
You sound like you,d be a barrel of laughs sitting around a campfire...........
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 17:00

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 17:00
Geez, that was a long winded reply to try and justify why you don't feel the need to have a device that is safer for you and other road users.
I never said you have to do anything....I don't give a toss really, but it was you who has tried to say over ride brakes on a trailer over 750kg is just as safe as electric brakes.
I also don't care if you are disabled or you have no inheritance etc...if you're going to get on your high horse, be prepared to get pulled off the saddle a few times !!
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 18:30

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 18:30
Not with you big fish. If I wanted my MIL with me at a campfire I’d bring her along ;)

Gronk- you confirmed my thoughts. High horse, think you in the grumpy bossy stage about 20 years my senior .

Trouble with you blokes is you were the ones that picked on the wrong bloke, not knowing me at all and veteran members get a big head about new members. Gronks none of my questions did you answer.

Bigfish you toss in a comment you think will provoke, laughable. Opportunistic very poor campfire material know all..

Bye, onto happy subjects

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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 18:34

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 18:34
Let this be ghe end of it.
Thread locked, pending review.
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Reply By: Gbc.. - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 15:14

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 15:14
95 is a great speed - nobody is going to complain about that.

Have another link - https://www.rvbooks.com.au/page/caravan-rollover-reports-and-images/

The pics are mostly exactly what it sounds like you are towing. Long, high, heavy, easily affected by wind, long rear overhang........ I'd be extremely cautious too if I was towing one with a normal sized car that has had a GVM upgrade to cope - but I don't - as I said the first time - if you are towing something that cannot cope with driving up a road at the speed limit, then it is you who is the problem.
I never said you should tow faster, I said you should tow something that isn't going to get out of shape by driving at the speed limit and performing standard highway manouvres; for example - being able to overtake a truck without trying to set sail into the nearest paddock, or head down a hill and not get the death wobbles.
I tow a 1.5t no windage, low COG, hugely long draw, next to zero rear overhang, high ball weight trailer that both corners and stops better than the vehicle towing it - lets not get confused about who has the more stable rig - you at 95 or me at 110. It is all about what you choose to tow and that decision is made long before you are out there on the highway in something marginal. Have a great day and tow safe, no matter what it is.
AnswerID: 628733

Follow Up By: sastra - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:27

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:27
let us not get confused about my post please.

The post is about the towing max speed limit of 100 kph in Western Australia.

This the legal limit in WA whether you tow a 6x4 box trailer, semi trailer, camper trailer or a 3 tonne caravan.
100 kph applies to all drivers whether novice or otherwise.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:22

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:22
Tell me about it, Sastra. Many moons ago I asked the local Transport Dept guys about the limit (for a 6x4 box trailer) as I was heading Per-Mel and was told - incorrectly - that it was "whatever the road limit is". Got done by the boys-in-blue for 114kph at Mundrabilla, who knew what the rules were better than the office experts at H.O. (After that we made a point of enquiring at the first police presence on entering each state).

TBH I still reckon 110k with a box trailer should be legal. Having towed a caravan at 100k I think THAT is a reasonable limit, especially as there are people out there towing for the first time.
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Reply By: David I1 - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:01

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:01
I am one who drives at the speed limit IF the conditions and the law permit. I have a car with advanced towing computer controls as well as a van with anti sway etc. If the road says 130km (in NT) I will drive to that if the conditions are OK. One could argue just about any speed is not safe on our roads.... a kangaroo might jump out, or some fool pulls out from a side road. If you have a capable car with all the electronic wizardry and you are a competent driver why drive slower than the speed limit and give truck drivers grief as they have trouble lining up an overtaking manouver. Most of the trouble with towing is inferior tugs (ie a LC 200 is at its axle limit or above with +3T)towing at or beyond their capacity and an inexperienced driver behind the wheel. Not that the OP said he /she was inexperienced.
AnswerID: 628734

Follow Up By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:47

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:47
Just curious. How long does it take and what distance do you travel, from 130km to stop?
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Follow Up By: Member - Racey - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:49

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:49
Rowdy6032, I'd say a LOOONG way . You can just see the "Advanced Computer Contols" working overtime. Not something to brag about.

Cheers
Racey
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:51

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:51
What are the advanced towing computer controls?
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Follow Up By: axle - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 19:54

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 19:54
There the ones with the red flashing lights, just before the thing goes arse over head!


Cheers.Axle
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:31

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:31
Don't you just love peoples reliance and belief in computer controls of a vehicle. Almost an UBER autonomous caravanner. If anything goes wrong, the system will fix it. Any speed with a blow out is exciting, in the heat of NT, 130km cruising and a tyre blows will make the day very interesting, with or without computers acting for the driver. Some drivers are inherently less responsible than others.
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:38

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:38
re stopping distance - I'm guessing that at 130 a car/caravan would pull up quicker/faster than a fully laden road train at 100... but slower/longer than a car doing 130 or a car/caravan doing 100. Why is the increased stopping distance relevant? Is it somehow "ok" at 100 but "not ok" at 130?
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:53

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:53
David, I would like you to think very carefully about this.

Modern trucks have the same capabilities as modern light vehicles when it comes to electronic stability control and ebs for the trailers.

They are limited to 100 kph for a very good reason.

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Follow Up By: David I1 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:30

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:30
Obviously none of you that "follow" posted on read my comments of NT and 130. Did I not say IF the conditions are OK! So far I have not driven on any NT road where the conditions have allowed such a speed as i tend to travel on the roads less travelled. BUT as I said IF I was on a road and the conditions and the speed limit allowed me to travel at 130kmh I would.

And to comments about the computer aid controls. I dont rely on then as they are an extra aid, and usually they sense an issue before (or are designed to so I am told) a human can react. My whole cars handling, suspension, traction control ebs, gear changes etc all electronically change the moment i hook up a trailer. It is not a basic cheap car (no disrespect to car owners) and as such has these features which so far I have not read on any glossy brochure from other manufacturers.

BUT please note I do drive at a speed that is within what I consider the prevelant conditions, and speed limit.


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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:07

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:07
There’s a few moral policemen here atm David. Ready to pounce.
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Follow Up By: Tim - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:37

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:37
Have yo u intentionally omitted your vehicle type?
Tim
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Follow Up By: David I1 - Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 06:52

Sunday, Nov 24, 2019 at 06:52
Since you ask Tim,

A Range Rover Sport V8SV SVR, with a few extra off road mods ie tyres, rims, LR tank, .
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:41

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 16:41
I normally travel at 100km/h when towing my camper trailer. At that speed I am travelling at the same speed as the trucks and therefore do not cause situations where trucks need to overtake me. If you travel at less than 100km/h you should have a UHF so you can talk to truck drivers and assist them to overtake you.
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:52

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 21:52
Sorry Kumunara I dont go along with that. All drivers including truckies should share the road and be patient until the caravanner can pull over or indicates it is safe for him to overtake. No UHF distraction required.
It's a furphy
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 22:30

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 22:30
Like most caravanners.
They sometimes go in groups
And a loaded truck of any kind hasnt got a hope in hell of overtaking because they follow each other soo close the truck has to overtake all 2 or 3 vanners.
They are at their leisure.
Truck drivers have deadlines and regulations and delivery times to meet.

Unless youve driven a truck and got stuck behind a few vanners who leave little room to overtake.
Id really appreciate you look at it like your in their drivers seat.
The amount of vans on the road these days... poor trucky trying to make a living while the grey nomads hog the road.

Just a little respective from a truck driver..
Yes and drove in wa.
Nullabor was a prime example.

Much safer overtaking a 4 trailer road train than a pair of vanners!!
The road train knows your speed limited as well
Some vanners seem to forget thaf
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 22:41

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 22:41
If caravanners go in groups they should have at least 300 metres between them. Common sense though isn’t so common.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 07:21

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 07:21
Hi Kumunara,

Out of curiosity, how do you know you are travelling at the posted speed limit, do you rely on your cars’ speedo, or a GPS? Reason for the question, is that most cars/4x4s have an offset in their speedo of between 3 & 5%. So at 100 kph, you may actually only be at 95 kph. Most modern trucks are using more sophisticated speed indicators that are more accurate., so you may actually be holding them up and not realise it.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:25

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:25
Being held up by slower vehicles whether they be cars, buses, trucks or caravans is a fact of life on the roads - get over it - if I had to name a group of the most inconsiderate drivers it would have to be truckies - only care for themselves as a stereotype.

But of course there are inconsiderate car drivers, bus drivers, P platers and caravanners as well as some very considerate truckies.

Is all part of driving our highways which belong equally to those who use it for a living and those who use it for recreational purposes.

No one group has priority even though they think they might.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:31

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:31
Macca


I use a GPS. Like most speedo's, mine is not accurate.


Regards


Tjilpi
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:55

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:55
Not a lot of van drivers know how to pull over safely I haves een so many put on a blinker at the last second jam on the brakes and swerve off to the side nearly causing a pile up. But most van drivers seriously don't even know they have mirrors let alone know how to tow or reverse.
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:22

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:22
I am sure all the posters here actually let people pass but in my experience there are plenty who believe they own the road. In the outback I see caravans sitting on 80 refusing to let the roadtrain pass, with a resultant long row of irate drivers behind who want to and can sit on the speed limit not being able to overtake for hours. Not all people are retired or able to smell the roses every day; some of us (me included) have limited tome to reach a destination to enable me to smell the roses there for a week before returning.
Another unbelievable observation, especially on the Bruce highway, is that caravans sitting on 80 to 90 actually speed up when they reach overtaking lanes! then only one or two cars can pass before you have to wait for another opportunity.
I am not taking aim at anyone here or disagree with any post, but my experience is very different.
CJ
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Follow Up By: Notso - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 23:08

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 23:08
I don't think that wild generalisations such as this are helpful at all really, Some caravanners may do these things and they upset those of us who don't just as much as they upset the likes of you.

There are drivers of all types who perhaps could behave a bit better on the roads. Ive seen plenty of drivers in cars doing the wrong thing, but that doesn't say the majority of them do. The same applies to truck drivers, most of them do the right thing and we don't judge them by the actions of a few.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:11

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:11
I travel the Bruce quite regularly between Gladstone and Cairns. Without a doubt there are idiots in caravans that sit on 85-90 but increase to 100 as soon as they hit an overtaking lane. Seen it countless times...most infuriating to say the least. Also see single cars not towing do it. No radio and many have no bloody mirrors. Its no wonder people who travel highways a lot are pissed off with many in the caravan fraternity. I have no issues with truckies on this section of highway. All they want to do is sit on the legal speed limit and meet deadlines so they can feed their families...not be held up by dawdling pratt busy rubbernecking at the countryside...
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:19

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:19
I actually think it is quite relevant and with the most amount of likes on this entire thread so far others appear to think it is relevant as well.

I am not generalising in saying all caravanners and RV's do this. What I am saying though is that when I see instances of a vehicle sitting below the limit holding up traffic it is most often a caravanner or RV.
Almost never see this behavior with truck drivers as they sit on the posted speed wherever possible and allow you to overtake wherever they can.
I don't see how it is unhelpful but if I have offended you I apologise.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 13:18

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 13:18
It takes a bit more than that to offend me mate, I just reckon we should be specific in our comments about issues such as this rather than make general statements about any one group's behaviour.
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Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 14:46

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 14:46
I specifically see 2 or 3 bikkie dippers a day on the Bruce, with bloody great tails of vehicles stuck behind them as they dawdle along doing their utmost to not establish eye contact, and who regularly speed up at overtaking lanes for God only knows what reason. I cannot specifically remember the last time I had any issue at all with heavy transport in this manner on the Bruce. How'd I do?
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderer - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 23:53

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 23:53
For those of you who are wondering why those who do 90-95 on the roads and then speed up to 100 when a passing lane is sighted should've read a letter addressed to the Open Road magazine for NRMA members, 40 yrs ago.

The member in question told the Editor, that he sped up to the limit of 100 because that was the speed limit and he was holding back those who wanted to go faster, he was being a good citizen and stopping those irresponsible drivers from breaking the road rules or speed limit.

So, there you have it, they are stopping you from breaking the law, and you thought they were just bikkie dippers, they're law abiding road-users who like to think that no-one else is entitled to break the speed limit and dare I say it, overtake them.

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Reply By: ken triton - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:29

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 17:29
My plan is to arrive safely, so I drive to the conditions. Sometimes you have a road with a posted speed limit of 100 kph which would be fine in a car but due to the road surface, corners humps and bumps 80 kph would be a safe speed with the van on the back. I normally travel at 90 - 95 kph when the road conditions are good. I always communicate with the trucks behind me and never have a problem with them. All I know is if it all goes pair shaped you have a lot more chance of controlling the situation if doing less than 100 kph. To many people over estimate how safe it is towing at high speeds, when it all goes wrong you will find out. Travel safely and enjoy your trip.
AnswerID: 628737

Follow Up By: Gramps - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:05

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019 at 18:05
Even more over estimate their competency towing at high speeds.

Regards
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Reply By: Member - rocco2010 - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:11

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:11
I don’t tow and I don’t much care what speed caravanners travel at. Some are slower than others but Patience, they say, is a virtue.

But many times have wished they would not bunch up and leave decent gaps for faster traffic to leapfrog through their “convoy”.

And a decent gap is not one car length for each 10kmh.

And when speed limits come up for discussion I am always reminded of wise words from my dad when I was learning to drive: the speed limit is the maximum, it doesn’t mean all the time.

Travel safe.
AnswerID: 628742

Reply By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 13:10

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 13:10
There is no law that states a driver must sit on the speed limit. If someone wants to go faster than another simply overtake!
Possibly the drivers speeding up on overtaking lanes is because they have slowed on the windy or hilly sections and when a better section of road presents itself (could well be an overtaking lane) they simply go faster, just go faster than them if you want to pass them.
I thought the roads were there for everyone, young, old, experienced, not so experienced, holiday makers and workers.if so one particular person or group shouldn’t dictate to another what they should or should not do.
Another thing there is no law that states drivers must have a UHF radio.
AnswerID: 628743

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 15:01

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 15:01
cruiser

too true, but note there still exist common courtesy and the majority of threads above relate to that
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:38

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:38
By law you are required to drive with due consideration to other road users.
If I am driving slowly and see a truck driver trying to get past I talk to him on the UHF and when he pulls out of overtake I slow down to assist him in getting past. I have heard other drivers do this. I think it is the minority that either don't care about anyone but themselves, or are lacking in knowledge, that do not.
Life's great and it just keeps getting better

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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:15

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:15
Sorry cruiser3..there are heaps of overtaking lanes on long flat straights that caravanners use to quickly drive at 100kph. Even though for the last 10-20 kilometers of flat open hwy they sat on a maximum of 90kph. One word for these clowns...wankers!
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Reply By: friar - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 17:14

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 17:14
Having towed caravans for a living in the late 70/80 ,F100 Tow Vehicle,some makes & models were not safe at low speed where as others,you could sit way over the speed limit like you had nothing behind you.Did this for 10 years,few close calls over the years,never had an accident,only got 3 speeding tickets in that period.Still tow ,don’t speed,can not afford the fines.
AnswerID: 628744

Follow Up By: eaglefree - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:38

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 18:38
So speed cameras do work.

Proof they are not just revenue raising.
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Follow Up By: sastra - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:14

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:14
friar
Your post confirms why I was initially motivated to make my post regarding towing speeds.
I hope you continue to be lucky with your close calls.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:29

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 19:29
The speed cameras didn't work if he was speeding. Speed cameras in black spots that are advertised with signs slow people down in the dangerous areas. They're the ones that work. Put as many hidden cameras as you like randomly about the place, as long as the dangerous area cameras are advertised.
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Follow Up By: friar - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 20:08

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 20:08
Safe motoring everyone
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FollowupID: 903270

Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:06

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:06
I wonder how many drivers have “close calls “ at well below the speed limit as well?
Slower speed doesn’t automatically make everything safe does it?
You can still have inattention, mistakes etc.
Sometimes I get the feeling some people think because they are going slower, it automatically makes them “safe”
Which is not the case.
Drive to your conditions and capability and I guess the speed limits are there for a reason.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:13

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:13
If everyone did 20kph then it would be very safe. Speed is always the biggest factor. Any of the other factors can cause an accident but speed determines how bad it is. If the speed is lower then the damage is lower and it's not linear, a little increase in speed magnifies the damage greater than the proportional speed increase. Kinetic energy is 1/2 X Mass X Velocity squared so increasing your speed from 90 to 120 almost doubles your kinetic energy (8100 to 14400 on a 2T vehicle for simple maths). When you crash all the energy goes into destroying everything it contacts.
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FollowupID: 903293

Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:27

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:27
What he said :)
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FollowupID: 903295

Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 22:35

Thursday, Nov 21, 2019 at 22:35
It wasn’t really that long ago that the towing limit in WA was 80kmh!
Also some vehicle makes have manufacturer recommended towing speed limits of 89kmh, such as Subaru.
AnswerID: 628745

Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:36

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:36
Agree Shaker. Then the WA govt realised that with the distances travelled and the traffic hold ups 100kph was a sensible solution and followed the rest of Australia. Virtually all modern vehicles , if towing a correctly weighted and balanced rig, will do this easily. Its the clowns in twin cabs towing 3 tonnes and loaded to the roof that struggle at 85kph. I am aware of the Subaru,s recommended towing speed. Its a bit like the recommended towing weights (that are over guestimated and downright ridiculous) that manufacturers put on their vehicles. Naturally you wouldnt choose a subaru if you did a lot of highway towing. Around town..fine. If you have confidence, ability and a properly set up rig there is absolutely no reason not to travel on the posted maximum speed whenever possible
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:46

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:46
Hi bigfish,

There are a number of vehicle manufacturers that recommend slower speeds in their manuals when loaded above certain weights, not just Subaru.

Macca.
Macca.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:53

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:53
Didnt know that Macca, but not surprised. Having had landcruisers and patrols for the last 30 years I tend to follow the 4wd route of interest. My Pajero for instance has a towball limit of 180kg if towing over 2500kg. Under 2500kg the ball weight is 230kg (250?). It pays to thoroughly research any vehicle before buying...especially for towing. Cheers
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FollowupID: 903279

Follow Up By: David I1 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:02

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:02
And some even lower their towing weight when 4wding!
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:44

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 06:44
Don't forget that once the weight of any towing setup hits a combined weight of 4.5t then 100kph is the maximum speed for any rig despite what the actual limit on the road is.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:32

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 07:32
Hi Pete,

Are you sure about that? I thought it was the weight of the towing vehicle, and not the combined weight. Happy to be corrected.

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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:15

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:15
I don’t agree Ozhumvee

Not all states

http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/state-state-tow-vehicle-trailer-speed-limits/
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:46

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:46
NSW is definitely 100kph max for over 4.5t combined mass, Tassie and WA 100kph for towing anything.
That withouta hitch site is wrong!
Peter
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 11:10

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 11:10
Peter, if you put incorrect information on a forum it’s relevant to call it out.

The following link is 8 weeks old

https://abigpeacheyadventure.com.au/caravan-speed-limits/

States apart from WA (100kph limit) all other states are posted speed limits.

And this site

https://www.rvbooks.com.au/page/rv-road-rules-summaryaustralia/

Need any more proof?
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:42

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:42
cut and paste from the peachey site “In NSW, if your vehicle and caravan weigh up to 4.5 tonnes combined, you can drive at the prevailing speed limit (that is, up to 110km/h), but if the rig weighs more than 4.5 tonnes in total, the speed limit is capped at 100km/h.”
Peter
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:55

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:55
My combined car and van weight is 2100kg.
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 13:28

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 13:28
But the discussion in this post is not about your set up - it is about the speed limit if your setup is over 4.5t.
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 15:55

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 15:55
eaglefree, you stated your van is 1000kg, what are you towing it with, a Yaris?
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:24

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:24
I assume you are genuine and not sarcastic


JBA TOURER. We don’t all tow with 4x4
Van is atm 1000kg. We tow it at 850kg car weighs 1240wet
It isn’t a 4wd forum exclusively
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:34

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:34
Oz, it wasn’t about uhf nor my tug but sure has people chatting about it

But I take your point
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:56

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 17:56
I presume this is your car? No room for a UHF or anything else for that matter, reckon you would be flat out passing a B Double or Road Train when towing, but they might want to pass you and cursing as you have no UHF...........
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 19:03

Friday, Nov 22, 2019 at 19:03
You’re an expert. An what motor would I have in it to be such a turtle? Wanna drag? Obviously you didn’t grow out of the bully habit
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:21

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:21
Well just as I thought John has gone missing.

By now, being the good investigator you are you'll come across numerous internet articles about my old looking "slow" car and realised your comments are silly and premature stone throwing (all because I dont want to use a UHF for pete's sake..

The car normally has a 2 litre engine and 4 speed box, mine has a 3800 V6 Holden engine with 5 speed capable of around 230kph+. It weighs 1240kg wet, Commodores weigh around 1400kg. I tow in fourth at 2200rpm towing 850kg and if indeed I needed to overtake a road train I'd leave your 4x4 for dead.
oh and its a 4 seater, enough room for 20 UHF's if I wanted them.

End slam dunk
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Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:07

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:07
Nice car, what is it?
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Follow Up By: eaglefree - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:18

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:18
Thankyou GBC

It's called a JBA Falcon Tourer. It is a kitcar first manufactured in 1982 and still making them, now with BMW engines complete.

There were 3 engineers retrenched from Leyland that made the cars initially fully assembled, mostly fibreglass body and some aluminium. About 3000 made so far and say 300 in Oz, sold from Perth by two importers so most are in the west.

They require a Cortina suspension and therefore builders usually use those 4 cylinder engines and gearboxes, mine the owner chose the v6 one of two known in oz with that engine, some have Toyota, Nissan etc and in UK a few have the Triumph V8.

The chassis by JBA is strong but a sub chassis over the axle then starts so I had to strengthen the rear which was easy really then get engineer approval and custom towbar.

The caravan is a home build, my second van I've built. 16ft x 7ft with full ensuite at the rear. Extremely lightweight at 730 tare, 1000kg ATM. I have to return to my engineer to raise the towing capacity from 850kg to 1000kg of the car so until then I dont carry water, so a formality. The frame is steel tube, polystyrene walls 36mm with hardener paint (foamcoat), plastic cupboards (surprisingly good quality), PVC T&G boards in the shower walls and lots of gussetting.

https://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=78365

Again thanks for your interest.
Tony
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Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:36

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 13:36
That would be up at the sharp end of the ‘cool wall’ on top gear for sure. An awesome looking machine.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 18:33

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 18:33
I don't think I'm hijacking this thread as the discussion has well and truly drifted from the OPs question about WA to everyman's opinion and different state rules. Apologies if this upsets anyone.

Ozhumvee wrote

"cut and paste from the peachey site “In NSW, if your vehicle and caravan weigh up to 4.5 tonnes combined, you can drive at the prevailing speed limit (that is, up to 110km/h), but if the rig weighs more than 4.5 tonnes in total, the speed limit is capped at 100km/h.”

All the discussion in this topic prompted me to look up the NSW legislation, as that is where I live.

It appears to me that the peachy site is not entirely correct. Here is the NSW LAW, taken straight fromthe NSW Legislation:

"(2) However, if the number on the speed limit sign is over 100 and the driver is driving a vehicle with a GVM over 4.5 tonnes or a vehicle and trailer combination with a GCM over 4.5 tonnes, the speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road is 100 kilometres per hour.
Note 1. Combination and trailer are defined in the Dictionary, vehicle is defined in rule 15, and GCM and GVM are defined in the Act."

The peachy website is wrong on two counts. Firstly it talks about what the vehicle/combination weighs. The rule is not dependent on what the vehicle actually weighs. It is dependent on the vehicle's MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE WEIGHTS. Ie, GVM and GCM. Secondly, it has misinterpreted the rule.

The first part of the NSW rule is easy. If you're driving a vehicle (without a trailer) not over 4.5 tonnes GVM you can drive at the posted limit. Over 4.5 tonne GVM you are limited to 100kph. Eg, a 5 tonne truck with no trailer, and loaded to 4.3 tonne, is still limited to 100kph by virtue of its 5 tonne GVM.

The second part "or a vehicle and trailer combination with a GCM over 4.5 tonnes, the speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road is 100 kilometres per hour" is the tricky but relevant part.

That clearly says that if your tug has a GCM over 4.5 tonne AND you're towing a trailer of ANY weight, you're limited to 100 kph. The peachy website's second error is in dismissing that.

Take a Ford Ranger. GVM 3.2 tonne, GCM 6 tonne. Without a trailer, and having a GVM below 4.5 tonne, the speed limit in NSW is the posted limit - 110, 120 or whatever.

But add a trailer and the GCM provision cuts in. GCM of the Ranger is over 4.5 tonne so the limit is 100kph.

An extreme example according to the rule would be a nearly empty Ranger at say 2.4 tonne towing an empty box trailer that weighs, say 300kg. 2.7 tonnes all-up. But that doesn't count because the rule is based on the MAXIMUM possible combination mass, not the mass on the day.

Now, I'm not saying this is sensible or what we want, or want to believe, but it is the way the law is written.

A more realistic example would be the same Ranger loaded to GVM at 3.2 tonnes towing a loaded 2.5 tonne ATM van, total 5.7 tonnes on the day - quite a realistic scenario. Same rule based on GCM applies, even though the combination is actually under the Ranger's GCM. Again. the speed limit 100kph and, dare I say it, sensibly so. Capturing this sort of scenario is probably the intent of the rule.

The peachy website is not authoritative, it's just a private individual's travel blog. For that matter neither are the NSW Road Users Handbook nor the Towing page on the NSW RMS website authoritative . Both contain a disclaimer saying they are guides and refer readers to the legislation for complete and accurate info.

In particular, the peachy site has taken quotes from the RMS towing page out of context to support its erroneous conclusion.



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FollowupID: 903317

Follow Up By: eaglefree - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:17

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:17
Most welcomed info Frank.
Tony
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FollowupID: 903319

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:39

Saturday, Nov 23, 2019 at 20:39
Thanks Tony,

The NSW RMS Towing page says in the last dot point under the heading "The Driver"

- There is no specific speed restriction while towing a trailer.

Ironically, he peachey website did not pick that up - it would have been the most compelling argument in favour of his proposition but he missed it.

In any case it is contrary to the legislation, which supports the disclaimer that the page and the Drivers Handbook are only guides and users should refer to the legislation for up to date and correct info.

As if anyone's going to do that. Until I did it tonight just for interest I was not aware of the provision. Been speeding on and off (up to 110 on freeways and errr... occasionally more to overtake) with my trailer for 13 years since retirement. Oops!

Lol

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