Stuck in the Simpson!

BOM was advising about this recent rain event, even before the previous event was finished.

I’m a bit confused, yeah, I know what you’re thinking, why, after spending many thousands of $$$$ on that camper, they didn’t buy, or at least hire, a satphone? PLB had the desired effect, but at what cost?

Bob

Also here in South Australia we were advised days in advance of the server weather condition that we’re going to hit the northern parts of our state, that included the Simpson Desert area.

If they had brains, they would have taken the advice from police and not leave Birdsville 2 days before they were hopelessly bogged,

.
Yes Stephen,
Either arrogant or foolish behaviour. It seems they have had the vehicle for 12 months and have been continually touring for that time. So they have has the opportunity to learn safe behaviour.
Of course, anybody can get bogged but prudence did not prevail in this instance.

"Who pays for the plane?" The rate-paying public of course. This is Australia, where even outright fools are supported no matter what! I just hope 'they' remember to collect the satphone at the conclusion but it would not surprise me if it were forgotten. Nice memento :(

Seriously? They're a family that is stuck in the outback. They may have had no or patchy reception to get up to date weather forecasts - who knows? I know you and I don't!
As for AMSA and the flight costs - that's what they are there for.

Crikies people seem really fit on this forum to 'throw the book' at people as if they'd never done something wrong, never made a mistake, never needed help from someone else (even just a winch).

They did everything right. Bought a rig suitable for the terrain (except for this significant/ severe weather event), had a PLB, and have supplies. Good on them.

I hope everyone who's all-mighty and thinks this is their fault never, ever needs help. Indeed - do any of these "it's their fault" people carry a PLB? If so, WHY? Surely you'd never, ever need it? I hope you don't carry a SAT phone either - you won't need it because you'll never get anything wrong.

What a pack of Ivory-towered armchair experts.

By what I've seen of news footage he left the main track that would have had some sort of vehicle compaction to it.

Lachlan

Birdsville has full reception, and was advised by the police not to enter the desert……what is there not to understand about that.

Anyone that has not been in that country and went against sound advise in my books is a fool, and seeing his age, think they know everything.

Any experienced driver knows that you never leave a defined track and drive across virgin country, that will collapse under your vehicle. By driving off track the way they did, you can bet National Parks people will want their pound of flesh.

As for my experience in. Four wheel driving, I carry PLB’s, yes two, a SPOT, HF Radio and Satellite phone, so yes I know what I am talking about.

Great Stephen L,

Perhaps he wasn't as experienced? Hark back to your days at the beginning - did you know everything then? Or is the family expected to undertake Bachelors of Outback Travel prior to stepping off in future?

Shit happens. Unfortunately it happened to them. Guess what - there are probably a dozen or more that it nearly happened to, and they now all have the experience behind them.

Why carry PLBs and a SPOT if you're so experienced that you won't make a mistake? Bloody hell, get over the mantra of suggesting everyone needs to hold this fictitious BA(OT) qualification.

Hi Lachlan,

Whilst I can see your point, I am inclined to agree more with Stephen & Allan, this family has been on the road for over twelve months, so should have picked up some experience in that time. Perhaps they were a bit overconfident in their own abilities. It would appear that they had enough food and water to sustain them for a few days, but if emergency supplies were dropped to them, that may indicate they were underprepared. Although, the emergency pack that was dropped to them may have been a “standard” pack. As Stephen stated, Birdsville has full coverage with radio, TV, telephone Internet etc. if they did know the weather event was coming, and chose to travel into the desert, they were either very overconfident, or very foolish. As for not having a Sat. Phone for remote travel, this is just plain foolish. There is enough information out there for people planning long term remote travel to know that a Sat. Phone is something that is a must.

Macca.

Too many assuming too much. Never realised we had so many perfect people on this forum.

Also they are obviously not in a life threatening situation at this point in time, setting off the beacon puts others lives at risks, the search aircraft could go down then how do they get to them?

If they where low on food, water or hurt or in danger then that's another thing but in this case it sounds like they are just scared or want someone to recover their vehicle.

The other aspect is why didn't find a safe spot and sit tight when the rain came along, probably the typical attitude I not going spoil my holiday by having to stop somewhere till it dries up so I'll press on and not worry about the damage I'm doing to the roads etc.

Yes we all make mistakes but some very basic errors have been made here and putting others lives at risks when yours currently isn't is another one.

Keyboard warriors.
Previous stories had replies that ppl were stupid for not carrying PLB’s.
For not making a backup plan.
Then the same people call this family fwits but wait, they have full supplies, and the have a PLB! And they used it correctly!
Stephen if you are able to call them fwits on this forum then you are a bigger one.
Come down from your high horse you F wit!

Sounds like you are one CSeaJay

They disregarded the advise of Police not to enter the desert….this is fact.

Are they going to pay the Hundreds of thousands of dollars for the emergency plane from Victoria and then the final recovery.

I stand by my words and anyone that ignores the advice given by locals on a weather front that we all knew was coming in, if a fool and should not get public sympathy.

Stephen...Can you show me advise from the police that they ignored the police,s advise not to enter the desert.?..everything seems to be hearsay at the moment. Plus I haven't seen any media accounts of them wilfully ignoring the police advice.

Have been in contact with Mount Dare, who will be organising their recovery and they advised the facts, who are the go betweens with emergency services and the police

Again hearsay. Surely the media would be all over it if the family said up yours we will do what we want and not listen to police advise......I dont take too much notice of pub chatter. Facts are a bit more reliable.

Couldn't agree more Bigfish and Lachlan. Don't know what advice was given or how strongly worded that advice was - could have been something as benign as 'there's a storm coming, probably not a good idea to travel on' - but apart from that they're victims of circumstances and probably some inexperience. There would have been no malicious intent. They clearly made a judgement call which turned out to be poor.

Without knowing the full story I'd say the parents have done exactly the right thing by activating the PLB. AMSA's service exists for such circumstances, irrespective of how they occurred. In this country we don't refuse medical help to those who inflict damage on themselves through lifestyle, accident or stupid behaviour, nor do we berate people who live on flood plains or in fire prone areas when the inevitable occurs. And perhaps more locally we don't pass judgement on people with existing medical conditions travelling out back should they need assistance while on the road.

Talk about adding salt to the wound. In more shocking news apparently another flight today will drop them supplies, and even some choccie for the kids.

Let's hope it doesn't blow the budget out, although compared to Howard's $90B largesse to gas producers, Morrison's $75M to AFL and NRL footy clubs, and tens of millions of Jobkeeper subsidies to companies whose profits actually increased during covid it does appear to be a drop in the ocean - or in this case the desert. Surely Scottie won't mind a few more $Ks being added to the deficit. Perspective's an interesting thing eh?

Probably liberal voters just getting another grant....free chockies and a couple of meals. Pork barrelling in the Simpson...lol.

You ever been on Q&A Bazooka ? :)
Dave.

Perhaps they were scouting the desert for a place to put a car park or a new gun club facility Bigfish? Unlikely though because Grey's not a marginal electorate.

I reckon car park. Obviously they are doing compaction tests on the soil. Should easily qualify for a $450,000 grant from Scummo.

Why is it some people always have to bring politics into a subject when it is totally irrelevant. Is it something in their DNA , they don't seem to be able to help themselves.

You should chill out a bit Rowdy. We are just having a bit of fun....maybe we have hit a nerve in you and your political persuasion. I,m not a political type person. I loathe all sides of politics, from local to federal.

It was a bit cheeky eh Rowdy, but the 'who pays for rescues thing' has had many airings on this site so some eye-watering examples of real wastage were long overdue. The truth can be unpalatable at times, particularly when it undermines previously rock solid notions of our self-professed great economic managers.

It seems like a lot of the suggestions here recommend charging stupid people in emergency situations. Perhaps they should have dropped an IQ test instead of chocolates? Stupid people with a satphone could take the test on the phone and fail, then the emergency services plane doesn't even have to take off. What a money saver.

Activating the Emergency Beacon is the correct thing to do if you become stuck with no chance of self recovery. The subsequent response from the authorities is standard practice.

Macca.

In light of your many previous eminently reasonable posts on a range of topics I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm Michael?

No matter the circumstances of how you find yourself in difficulties, if you believe the you should activate a PLB then that is precisely what you should do.

And we are extremely fortunate in Australia that we have an emergency response that is world class that will swing into action with whatever resources are required to assist you.

Fortunately we have sensible people in charge of providing this service that have resisted any attempt to charge for this service; we don't want people weighing up the pro's and con's of having to pay the cost of a rescue versus their personal safety.

And worth repeating again, regardless of how someone has found themselves in the predicament.

Those who seek to ridicule people for taking the action to activate a PLB are simply wrong and present a real danger to others. The sole arbiter's of the decision to activate a PLB lies with those seeking help, and the authorities providing it...

Baz (The Landy)

Baz (The Landy)

Good to hear from you again.

Regards

LeighW,

As an ex-EMS pilot, please don't ever ever spruik that nonsense about putting others lives at risk. To anyone who on here berates someone for activating their PLB - you're exactly why people choose not to and then leave it too late. They activated theirs upon realising they'd need assistance which is the best time to do it. It has provided the emergency crews time to plan, with a window in which the EM crews can pick a safe moment for them to conduct the flight/ road trip. No, Leigh, they won't put themselves at risk to undertake the operation. However, if the PLB was activated once they ran out of water and/ or food - then the crews need to mount a more urgent operation, with less mitigations to make the operation as safe as reasonably practicable.

The irony appears lost on people here who are calling these people fools. Ironic, that you all seem to carry PLBs and/ or SatPhones. Why do you do that? Surely your planning and preparation and experience will mean they'll never be needed? OH - that's right, because shit happens sometimes - and we all like to be prepared for it.

But here we are, taking the piss out of someone because a keyboard warrior thinks they'd have done it differently. No shit. I bet you've never been stuck and thought "there's probably a better line I could have taken there" or perhaps gone near-empty (or run out of) fuel and thought "ah, knew I should've taken another jerry".

Please do not ever hesitate to set off the PLB. You know what - those crews are all on standby and being paid regardless. Those Police and pilots are all at work and being paid regardless of whether they are flying/ driving or doing whatever. Those aircraft and cars remain on call and hired or owned by the EMS crews. Even if the Army sent in a Chinook to lift the thing, in net costs it wouldn't amount to much more than $80,000 over what would otherwise have been spend by the ADF. People seem to have a privateer approach to thinking when it comes to rescue... but if it's performed by Govt (AMSA and SA Pol are Govt) then it's only fuel and overtime you're really paying for.

Could we not just look at the benefits the story brings? How many people have read this (on this site or the numerous others) and thought... 'you know what, carrying a SatPhone was off my list because I thought it so expensive, but I think I might fork out to hire one now'?

Two Voices of Reason. Thank you Baz and Lachlan.

Voices of reason, common sense, and in Lachlan's case direct experience Frank.

Some criticism of their decision to drive on MIGHT turn out to be warranted but the decision to activate the PLB shouldn't be debated for the compelling reasons already provided by Lachlan above. Without communication with the outside world they could only guess what the weather might do and hence how long they'd be stuck. That uncertainty, and having young kids with them would very likely have influenced the decision to activate the PLB, and the timing of same.

As the AMSA website says:
"If two-way communications are not available, then a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when you feel you are facing a life threatening situation. THIS IS A PERSONAL DECISION THAT IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE (my emphasis).

--------------------------------------------

Welcome back Baz, and Ron N

Maybe I have missed something but I think the criticism is about entering the Simpson with the approaching weather forcast and the lack of a Sat phone. Also there is some allegation that it was done against Police advice and they left the track. There is also the cost of the operation which may have been avoidable if the relevant precautions had been taken.

Can't see that there is criticism of setting of the PLB under the circumstances. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

The reason they left the track can be seen in the original ABC link (AMSA drop video) Rowdy. He seemed to have made pretty good progress for a while. It's usually better to stick to the made track, but who knows in this case. I noted some wheel tracks off to his left, maybe they influenced him.

Lachlan's last post explains why cost of "rescue" (which results directly from activating the PLB) shouldn't be a factor, or the subject of speculative commentary.

.
I agree Bazooka.
The AMSA website also says.......... plan ahead and ENSURE THAT THE WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE SAFE for the activities you plan on doing. CHECK THE WEATHER WITH THE BOM. You can also CONTACT TOURIST INFORMATION CENTRES to get relevant information on the area including weather conditions.....LOCAL OR EXPERT KNOWLEDGE AND ADVICE IS INVALUABLE....."
With all the media coverage over the past weeks warning of impending heavy rain, I should think every person in Oz would have been alert. A little care and there would be no need to press the button! Maybe if a snake bit you?

The AMSA site also has....."A means of verbal telecommunications such as A TWO-WAY RADIO OR SATELLITE PHONE. This is the most effective way of communicating your emergency."..... And, in my opinion, may save an expensive rescue flight all the way from Essendon, particularly as the police said the family has "sufficient essential supplies".

And yes, despite Lachlan's denial, such flights and services do come at a cost even if they were readily available. Furthermore, needless attendance reduces aircraft availability for possible other needs. It is impotent to assert that "crews are on paid standby anyway".

It can be interesting to gain more understanding of AMSA's function by reading their recounts of Past searches and rescues.

Allan,

1. No denial of a cost from me. Where did I deny it cost anything? I said fuel and overtime. But hey, that's only from 16 years ADF (pilot) and 9 years EMS (pilot) experience so perhaps I'm wrong. Oh, and 8 years NSW Police prior to that.

2. I note the AMSA quote you has indicates "two way radio OR Sat phone". Looks from antennae on the vehicle he had two-way. Tick. Good on them.

3. Weather conditions. No idea on what they knew/ didn't know - but I also know you have no idea what they knew, what they could have known, or what information they went into. Sitting in your abode you knew about it, for sure. As did I. But throwing stones at this family helps no-one. It does nothing but have people stuck in trouble fearful of some Keyboard Warrior throwing rocks at them because they, apparently, have had a perfect run of luck over their touring time.

4. "Needless attendance reduces aircraft availability..." What crap. How many aircraft do we have in support of SAR, and how many are airborne at any one time - take a guess? Or is that a thought that seems to make sense but isn't actually based on any form of reality? Tell me, when was the last time you heard of aerial EMS systems stretched beyond saturation levels? I'll tell you my (personal) viewpoint - 1998 Sydney to Hobart.

And again, the comment is disconcerting as it advocates people to activate something like a PLB only when half-dead. You mention "impotence"? Trust me (or call your local EMS dudes) - they're hankering for a job to help someone. My comment referred to the costs involved - which is the same if they're flying or sitting around. If we were paid more for flying, then we'd have done extensive taxi/brake checks all shift.

Have to disagree Allan. How they came to be there, whether they made mistakes in not having a sat phone/communicator and/or ignored advice, and whether their situation was a priority (or might compromise other emergencies) is, and always should be for reasons succinctly explained by Lachlan above and confirmed by AMSA, irrelevant to the decision to activate. Had AMSA been overloaded they may well have requested local resources to provide assistance. That decision should be left to them. If you think you are, or may quickly be in dire straits out back then you should NEVER be afraid of activating your PLB.

Crikey, I got cramp in my scrolling finger! And I nearly ran out of popcorn! FWIW, I'm on the side of those who aren't rushing to judgement. I don't care how experienced you are or what you carry, if things went pear shaped for you I'm sure I could nitpick and find flaws in your preparation as well. Ease up tigers, and let's just be happy they're not at any real risk of something terrible.

Nit pick and find flaws, that's how we hopefully learn and don't get caught in the same situation. Just don't crucify me while doing it. Just like a debrief so we learn from our mistakes.
eg keeping an eye on the weather is camping 101, a UHF radio in the Simpson is virtually useless unless travelling in company.

I'm sure there are many more that I may not be aware of while travelling in those conditions.

Yes, in the learnings column after this one it will be a ‘what not to do exercise’.
Surely a SAR pilot with so much knowledge would know that the AMSA jets aren’t owned by the government at all, rather contracted to a private company (cobham) on a retainer and paid on flight hours on callout ? And they are rubbing their hands together after this gronk has gone and ignored legitimate advice and done this to his family. This is costing real money.
The SAR exercise started 2 days before he got bogged when he drove out of town and experts on both sides of the desert already forecast the outcome. That is something quite different to people saying he should/shouldn’t use the epirb, of which I can see no evidence above. No matter how stupid you’ve been, at least he had the presence of mind to know when the situation was untenable and used the epirb in a timely manner especially since there are kids involved. The one and only tick on the positive side of the learnings ledger at this point.

Out of interest how do you know precisely what advice he was given Gbc?

What's your take on people living in flood and fire-prone areas and the REAL costs and RISKS for rescuers and fire-fighters in those cases? Should we only provide assistance/medical care to people who live perfect, healthy lives and don't make "stupid" mistakes? Any idea of the costs associated with every day car accidents where people constantly ignore advice? If you're concerned about the relatively tiny amount of money involved I'd be happy to provide you with a long list of far more-egregious use of taxpayer funds to add to the few mentioned above. Preventable farm accidents alone cost millions every year.

Think of it as good training and learning if it helps ease the pain you're feeling in your pocket.

I think maybe you should start reading what other people write and stop trying to put words in their mouths. If this bloke was employed, like on a farm, and was out there on business, this would become a ‘notifiable incident’ under the act, to be investigated by the regulator - I’ve been there, it isn’t fun. I guarantee the level of fines the company would be looking at would be eye watering. They call that ‘punitive measures’ - to stop your dumb arse from doing it again. I couldn’t personally care about the cost from a government perspective, just that the reporting by members shows a bit of accuracy - you are guessing. As for your other parallels, they are so far off the reservation they do not bear repeating. Read again what I said was the most positive thing to occur.

Hang on Gbc,

With respect to setting off/ not setting off the PLB, my comments relating to "don't think about it, just do it" was in response to the comment... "Also they are obviously not in a life threatening situation at this point in time, setting off the beacon puts others lives at risks, the search aircraft could go down then how do they get to them?"

You mention putting words in peoples mouths - this, I hope, shows that I was not when asking those not to criticise the family for setting off the PLB.

With respect to whether or not I know they AMSA owns aircraft or not, I clearly said "Those aircraft and cars remain on call and hired or owned by the EMS crews." Some agencies own them and charge a flat rate to Govt, some are on an on-call basis.

You mention putting words in peoples mouths - but you put words in mine by suggesting I stated all aircraft are owned by emergency agencies?

Reference your incident on the Farm - I am guessing this is a business? In that case you are operating under the WHS Act 2011 (I presume is the one you refer to).

You mention parallels - but a business/ Farm alignment with the touring family holiday is false.

Anyway, I'm off. Sounds like the family is safe. Heat is coming but they have solar, batteries, supplies and air conditioning.

I read it GBC. You were berating a bloke for making a mistake which costs REAL money, calling him names, and guessing what advice he may have been given.

I'm happy to explain how my examples relate if you need elaboration - and I'm not talking about the egregious "parallels" of govt largesse which for some reason you think have no relevance despite your comment about "real money". Daresay MOST of AMSA's and other search and rescue incidents involve error, poor judgement and inexperience.

I look forward to many more threads on people rescued from seas, floods, fires and roads, and the associated "real" costs.

It gladdens my heart to know that on this special forum we have so many knowledgable people who have never made a mistake in their lives, can actually make statements that are true (but have not been verified by the parties involved) and whose moral judgement is beyond reproach. Hopefully you will be inundating the media with your views on car accident rescues and associated costs. Farming accidents that could have been avoided (vast majority) and the need for the RFDS to attend, the boaters caught out by mechanical failure and needing Coastguard assistance....list is endless you can send your words of wisdom too.


Just dont let the facts ruin a good story..


Good time to leave this thread alone and move on to another topic. I,m sure someone else very soon will need our words of wisdom....lol

Bloody Hell there's no sitting on the fence on this one, Good points have been made on both sides, from my point of view ( I only know what the media and people on this forum have said and from personal experience)In remote areas if it looks like rain in the Desert/ Channel country, Black soil etc, then you always error on the side of caution, I think the PLB was set off prematurely if they left Birdsville 2days b4 getting bogged and all are healthy, they should have had plenty of food & water, when it started to rain they would have been able to find sandy areas to camp and sit it out, they were on apparently a 12mth trip to remote places around OZ, you would have thought a sat phone would have been high on the list of gear to take especially with 2 young kids to look out for, from what I have seen from TV footage I don't think he has much experience ,you do not take a heavy truck into water pooled flat areas between the sand ridges and from his tracks that you could see behind him he should have stopped long b4 he did. About the costs involved, the Gov wastes heaps of coin on crap why not on this? as for personnel involved they love it, to do what they have been trained to do. Jeff

Hi Jeff

A few more points that have since come to light, that shows just how inexperienced and unprepared they were for so called seasoned travellers.

Today they were air lifted by helicopter with medic on board and flown to Coober Pedy tonight and now they will have to find a way to extract their vehicle which will cost them big dollars.

The Police Helicopter left Adelaide this morning, first fuel stop Port Augusta, then refuelled again at Olympic Dam, and a final refuel at Cadney Park. From there the police helicopter flew direct to the bogged vehicle, picking up the family of 4 and then to Oodnadatta, and from there to be flown to Coober Pedy.

You might ask why?

When they left Birdsville they never had full food and water supplies, only allowing enough for 4 days….yes that’s right only 4 days.

With warmer weather expected within the next few days of high 30’s and low 40’s and dwindling water supplies, they were evacuated for their safety.

Any person that travels remote should never rely on only 4 days food and water at this time of the year which in my books from many years of remote travel, shows their total lack of remote area travel.

Enough of my rants.

''Enough of my rants.'' ...yes!!

Hi Bigfish, Seems you don't like facts, perhaps doesn't support your views on this. Jeff

This is becoming a lot like a Monty Python sketch;

Arguer 1 "Rah rah rah rah!"
Arguer 2 "Rah rah rah RAH!!"
Bored bystander "Umm guys.."
Arguer 1 "Rah rah rah rah RAH RAH!!!"
Arguer 2 "Rah rah rah RAH BLAH BLAH DEE DAH!!"
Bored bystander "Guys.."
Arguer 1 & 2 "WHAT???"
Bored bystander "They've been rescued"
Arguer 1 & 2 "......yes....BUT...."
Bored bystander (sits back down, refills popcorn cup....)

Hi Jeff s7...if you read my post I actually haven't posted a view on the event. I,ve posted about the huge amount of assumptions that have been made and I have also asked for the fact concerning the travellers ignoring the police warning they were give,,,not supplied yet! I prefer to get facts from mainstream media ./..not the forums resident news cadets.

More than al ittle speculation in your comment Jeff. In fact it is contrary to some of what has been reported about their "comfort" - esp one of the kids. I take issue with your comment regarding the "waste" of resources on rescues - irrrespective of the carelessness/stupidity/fault involved. Perhaps it wasn't meant as it read but it is NEVER in my view a waste of money to act to assist people in distress - moreso given the service exists exactly for that purpose.

Why some people focus on this one case when there are hundreds every year out back, in cities, off shore bewilders me.

Irrespective, can you enlighten us as to why you think AMSA's advice regarding activation is wrong/poor? Might be worth reading Lachlan's posts above before replying.

A reminder if you missed the extract from their website regarding activation (they also mention comms):
AMSA: If two-way communications are not available, then a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when you feel you are facing a life threatening situation. THIS IS A PERSONAL DECISION THAT IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE (my emphasis).

Hi Bigfish/Bazooka, The info wayback in this thread from Stephen L ,he received facts from Mt Dare who are go betweens for Emergency services and Police and completes many recoveries from the desert and surrounding areas, not hearsay and pub chatter as you suggest, mainstream media distort facts to suit themselves,do you believe every thing they say on TV/radio etc ,if you don't realize that you must be on an different planet. The reference to cost was in response to Bazooka/ bigfishes (your posts )about Gov spending,that I enjoyed .I think the advice you gave to Rowdy you should take your self. I do agree it is a personal decision re: activation of PLB, but if no health problems exist then with better preparation (food/water etc) you could sit it out much longer, (being uncomfortable is not an emergency IMO) and as things dry out maybe self recover?if not for the kids involved a good baking might help him respect the desert/ remote areas.Jeff

In an interview with the husband this morning in Cooper Pedy - he said he activated the PLB because of the forecast high temps and was concerned for his children - seems OK to me.

Some people on here need to get off their high horse. It is better to activate a PLB for a false reason or early rather than leaving it too late or not activating it, particularly if a life is lost.

If people have to pay for these rescue services, many will tend to not use them and DIE.

No problem with him activating the PLB. It appears he had the means to access weather forecasts.

Hi OzzieCruiser, CAN'T YOU READ, I said if not for the kids involved. What bullshit (it's better to activate for a false reason) it's better to be properly prepared in the first place. I agree that if life is in danger then it is an EMERGENCY and that's why you carry one(PLB). He chose to take note of the forecast re: high temps but it seems not the approaching rain event coming his way. I don't think any ones on their high horse, as you put it,just stating their opinion, every ones entitled to an option here in OZ.I hope people reading this thread might take something from it and RESPECT the remote areas of Aust . not go in under prepared and have to rely on others to recover them. I did not say that people should pay for Gov rescue services , perhaps( if not a mechanical/medical prob )and a false activation they should contribute. If people as you have said will not use them(rescue services) if they have to pay and die, that's their choice. Jeff

New information - no matter what police said or did not say (not clear) - all roads were open so authorities were not concerned enough to close them.

So they left with all roads open and they were closed after they left.

Experts (those interviewed on ABC) are saying they were well prepared and did everything correct - however having a sat phone may have been wise but would not have made a difference as they would still have been stuck and needing help.

Well Jeff you have now stated that as someone heard it from someone in a pub it is definitely true that the family chose to ignore the police warnings. Thank you for the concrete evidence that I was after. Hopefully the police will charge him for every cent they spent and also publicly humiliate the family by announcing that they deliberately ignored the police warning given to them. Still got me beat why mainstream media wont mention a headline like that!!

They still had Icy Poles. :-)

@ Jeff S7 "Hi OzzieCruiser, CAN'T YOU READ, I said if not for the kids involved."

Not sure what has died up your bum - but was not addressing anything you said - was a general comment on the thread overall and some updates.

Anyway I was not even aware of your followups - mine were posted only minutes after yours so when I was typing your then new posts were not even visible to me

I cannot help if this forum has an extremely poor layout so my comments just happened to follow yours - Followups are supposed to be a followup to the original post not necessarily followups to followups. :-)

Time to take a chill pill.

A choice of icy poles AND a chopper ride Michael !

Some really great points made here, on both sides.

Hey guys, while we're at it....I want to go back and do the CSR with half a tank of fuel, 2 bottles of lemonade (full, of course) a pack of Weetbix, no spare tyres and a box of matches and a blanket. Trying to travel light, know what I mean? The missus will have to walk behind, but she's pretty fit anyway.

I will of course carry a satphone, PLB, HF radio, UHF radio, a really big torch and a mobile phone. And some stamps and envelopes. Hmmm....now I have to carry a pen as well. No! What if the ink runs out. Make that a pencil instead. Wait...now I have to carry a sharpener also. More weight! Dammit.
Also considering strapping a Tiger Moth to the roofrack as well, just in case. (although, that would involve carrying petrol. That could be jolly dangerous...)

D'ya reckon I'll be ok with all that?

The CSR is a 3 bottles of lemonade trip if your missus is walking.

"Mr Atkinson said the family followed the right protocols such as bringing plenty of water and staying with their vehicle, but despite the best planning issues can still arise.

"The roads weren't closed at the stage that they went through and then after they'd gone in there, the roads then closed behind them that meant no other travellers could find them on the way through," he said.

"So they were unlucky and you really do need to plan for the worst and hope for the best in these situations and their planning seemed to have helped them out."

And yet we have had people categorically state from factual information obtained at the pub that they were told not to enter the desert.....

Yes..they walk amongst us..

If you're a clone of Len Beadell you might be okay Rusty. Not sure about the missus though. You haven't mentioned your rig. With better planning you could do without the fuel and rely on solar. Might mean you have to carry a tad more food and water of course. What capacity backpack are you giving the missus to carry?

PS Whatever you do, just don't activate the PLB without getting the okay from this forum (and the missus).

PPS Vita Brits are better, even if they are pointedly nationalistic.

Bazooka, you raise a very good point! And that's why we all come here. I could give the Missus a bigger backpack, get some weight out of the car, and then carry both types of cereal.

Thanks man. I was about to give up. Too many doubts, ya know? But now - I'm gorn!!

Also, excellent point re the solar. I could throw an 80 watt panel on the roof, wire it straight to the starter motor, and jam the starter button with Blue tak! Yeah, that'll work sweet. Without the fuel weight, I can run a hydroponic setup in the back, to grow cabbages. Trouble is, I hate cabbage. Might have to rethink that part...

Cheers, big ears! (Disclaimer; I do not intend to make any firm representation regarding the actual or perceived size of your hearing appendages. I am using a publicly licensed generic term only)

You're both wrong: Uncle Tobys Plus Iron is the best cereal. :)

I gather you and the missus have separate computers that you use for posting Gazz. Either that or your a very brave man. :)
Dave.

No issues posting this in my house David.

She knows what I'm like !

Cheers
Gazz

Hi Gazz, At least you wouldn't have any other campers intruding. Jeff

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At least that's indisputable Jeff.

Peter.
Thanks for the update, correct and accurate perspective is what has been missing. Some intolerant folk immediately jumped down the throat of the driver without knowing the true situation.

The ground does get mushy but not easily seen as such. Even hard to walk without sinking in some areas.

Duncan, your link to the ABC page does not work as published because of its length. I suggest you use the 'Link' tab for it to work as you intended.

Corrected link:

Link to ABC Article.

I was talking about this part of your comment Jeff: "I think the PLB was set off prematurely if they left Birdsville 2days b4 getting bogged and all are healthy, they should have had plenty of food & water"

Clearly speculating that they had plenty of food and water to sit it out - for as much as 10 days according to one comment, and the kids especially were and would continue to be, mentally and physically okay. Quite clearly the adults on the spot were in best position to judge that, and even more clearly they did exactly as AMSA suggests. Others may have waited longer but people under stress make poor decisions so waiting until you're desperate is generally not a great idea.

Appears you hadn't digested the thread before posting - including Lachlan's advice about not waiting until the last minute to send for help. It's not directly related but if you've watched any of Bear Grylls programs he constantly talks about pro-active decision making.

A question for those who have been in that area when wet - If it's bellied out it will probably require assistance, but if it isn't and the weather stays dry and seasonal heat resumes, how long do you think before that vehicle (presumably 4WD) will be able to self recover, ie drive out - if at all?

In the article I just read someone from Mt Dare suggested it could be 10 days before the vehicle can be extracted.

Frank,
Depending on a few things, the truck could be driven out of its current spot by the end of this week? But it looks to be sitting on the diffs, and if it rained for a day or two after they were bogged then the wheel tracks would have absorbed a lot of runoff. The photos aren’t clear, but he looks to have duals on the rear axle, so that’s a further impediment to extricating itself. And what tyres does he have on the Canter? If they are Highway pattern, they’re as useful as an ash tray on a motorbike!

I’ve seen a Landcruiser ute in a similar predicament, where the mud dried around the bogged ute, and it required some digging before 2 other LC utes were able to tow it out of the bog.

Bob

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Nah Bob, not duals. But they do have a bit of tread on them.
The rego is heavy-duty too!

Yeah, they’ll pass, Allan. And the super singles too!

Bob

I've had mud in my wheel arches that has dried and stopped the wheels from turning. I've taken the wheel nuts off and not been able to remove the wheel because they're virtually glued on. All this on a car that's still sitting on top of the ground. If you're stuck to the floor pan and it dries it might be like it's set in concrete. It will depend on the type of mud.

Both the wife and husband have admitted they made some small mistakes or bad decisions. Probably an understatement. A moot point now and thankfully everyone is ok.

I'm going to wait for the Movie before I make a final decision on their guilt or otherwise.
Dave.

After speaking to him via AMSA's sat phone a few days ago his mum Theo apparently said they had enough food and water to last 4 days AFTER becoming bogged, not 4 days total supplies when they set out from Birdsville as reported here. Guess we won't know until 60 Minutes does the exclusive :-). Strange that local police haven't said anything about a warning being issued. Suggests either it might have been low key advice or possibly didn't happen. Alternatively they didn't want to add insult to injury.

Well Bazooka...talking to a mate whose friend drank at the pub and overheard a discussion between 2 tourists, who also overheard a conversation it is fact that the road was clsoed AFTER the tourists had left. Also I,m still waiting, like others, on the fact that the police advised the couple not to venture out..if this was true the media would be all over it....

AS has been said...I,ll wait for the movie..

If they left from Birdsville, they'd be driving into the weather as it normally comes from the west. Therefore the roads would be open at their end and possibly shut at the other end while they were in transit. The warnings would be from people who knew what was happening in the west. We were at Cameron Corner a few years ago and it was fine in the evening when we pulled in, but the publican said that they were going to get severely dumped on and better leave ASAP if we didn't want to get stuck there. Sure enough they got dumped on and he saved us from being stuck. Maybe they were just unlucky to be caught in limbo as far as the weather was concerned because it was still fine at Birdsville?

There's a lesson to be learned or reinforced if it has already been learnt. When you're heading remote, keep an eagle eye on the weather 500 or so kms in front of you if you're driving in to it.

Crap can happen, we were travelling into the the pink road house and it started to drizzle off and on, weather report before we started out from BOM was for clear weather. We checked with the people in the pub, still clear weather no rain forecast and they didn't expect any rain but it was still lightly drizzling on and off! A check with VKS 737 indicated no one had reported any rain and BOM still were saying clear weather for the region. We discussed what we would do, checked our supplies we had around 6 weeks of food and water on board so after lunch we decided to continue on towards Dalhousie. Couple of hours later we where looking for a place to camp as the road was rapidly becoming impassible and dangerous. Was another 3 days before we could proceed, many others got caught out along with us.

Reality is they were venturing out into a remote area with young children which puts even more responsibility on them to make good decisions and err on the side of caution. The police shouldn't have had to advise them of anything, typical nanny world in that it is everyone else's fault other than your own. If they did ask the police for advice and then ignored it what can you say?

If they didn't ask the locals for advice again what can you say?

One of the first things they should have done was to check the weather forecast, the weather forecast for the area which was pretty bleak. If they read it and still ventured out then that what can you say?

If they didn't get a weather report before venturing out again what can you say?

Lots of speculative IFs there Leigh, the reverse could be equally true. And that's why we shouldn't be accepting internet rumour and hearsay before piling on. Haven't heard the family or anyone else "blame" shifting so why even mention it?

Not sure what's speculative, reality is they were intending to travel a remote area, you can continue to make excuses for them but the bottom line is they either didn't bother to get a weather report or they did and still travelled on.

If they did ask the police for advice and then ignored it what can you say?

If they didn't ask the locals for advice again what can you say?

One of the first things they should have done was to check the weather forecast, the weather forecast for the area which was pretty bleak. If they read it and still ventured out then that what can you say?

If they didn't get a weather report before venturing out again what can you say?
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That's ALL speculative Leigh, what can I say?

Obviously they didn't expect to end up how they did.

Bottom line is that everyone was safe, systems worked as they should, and lessons have been learned. A bonus is that finger waving experts on various forums have been able to demonstrate their own superior wisdom.

Lessons have been learned, yeah right, and pigs might fly.

Not enough room for that Rowdy. The sky is already filled with the kites flown on this thread. Can't see any reason to be pessimistic or cynical in this case but who knows.

There appears to be a reluctance to even discuss the issue in case someone gets offended. There must be a gold mine of information out there from experieced people that could be shared to help the novice. It doesn't bode well for the future IMO. Superior wisdom to some to be ignored.

Interesting. 100+ comments doesn't suggest any reluctance to me whatsoever. Most have acknowledged some misjudgements were made, some accepted still unconfirmed talk that the family ignored weather advice and stuck the boot in, some complained about costs, some seemed to think they were in a better position to judge whether PLB activation was necessary, some even surmised without a scintilla of evidence that lessons would be ignored.

And some realized 50 posts ago that the thread was going nowhere and stopped reading. :)
Dave.

True David M...just not you or I...lol.

Please my comments above:

"If they did ask the police for advice and then ignored it what can you say?"

Wasn't speculative just a statement if they did ask advice and didn't listen to it they would be a fools, as to whether they did or not who knows, time may tell .

"If they didn't ask the locals for advice again what can you say?"

Again not speculative, they either did or didn't ask locals for advice had to be one or they other, in either case they were fools or are you implying the locals said you"ll be right mate?

"If they didn't get a weather report before venturing out again what can you say?"

Again they either did get a weather report from BOM etc or they didn't, in either case they were fools or are you saying in wasn't clear upto a couple of weeks before they ventured out what was predicted to happen?

Another rescue was performed in the area recently. 70yos on bikes in the outback enjoying a birthday run. They don't appear to have had a sat phone but did have an EPIRB.

As Allan said so prophetically: 'without further comment.' :-)

Motorbike rescue

Crikey Bazooka! You should have started a new thread so we could go through all this again :)

Cheers
Greg