Anti-4WD campaign we started on Monday

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 14:55
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I like Reader Joe Hubbard at the bottom!!!! LMAO

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This is a clipping straight out of the herald...

honestly, i think they are just over doing this, specially the one in the last paragraph...he needs to be shot.

Quote:

Sydney or the bush

"I can no longer remain one of the silent majority in relation to the ill-informed persecution of 4WD owners," writes Tim.

Sorry, Tim, but it seems the overwhelming majority of Spike readers support the anti-4WD campaign we started on Monday.

As of yesterday afternoon, 83 per cent of emails were against these beastly incarnations of selfishness, with only 17 per cent in favour. And to clarify: it's to reduce the number of oversized cars - 4WD and 2WD - on Sydney's streets. Cars such as the Toyota LandCruiser, Nissan Patrol, Porsche Cayenne and so on.

They are dangerous: more prone to roll over than, say, sedans or hatchbacks; and, in a crash with smaller vehicles, they are more deadly. Here's a stat from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau: between 1996 and 1998, 36 young children died in low-speed driveway accidents; more than half of those killed by passenger vehicles were killed by large 4WDs.

Reader Dave Bredeson sent the egg and brick image on the left: "This is what I visualise when I'm out on the road with those big, bad vehicles of mass destruction."

And reader Joe Hubbard had a sensible suggestion: "Clearly the 4WD has no function in cities, towns and suburbs and the constant use of these vehicles in these areas must raise suspicion. Our duty is to report every sighting of a 4WD in a city to ASIO as a terrorist suspect, a possible bomb-carrying vehicle or even carriers of dreaded illegal immigrants or refugees. Be alert not afraid. These drivers belong in Baxter detention centre until their motives are clarified."
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Reply By: Member - Geoff M (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:00

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:00
Scary thing is someone gave him some air time and took his rantings as a valuable contribution!!
Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Reply By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:05

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:05
Uhhmmm... guys..... I sense a sense of humour in Mr Hubbard's response. He's taking the mickey.............
AnswerID: 97659

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:08

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:08
Yea you know that, I know that, but They printed it as a serious response! The morons will believe this chit one day.
the more chit they throw, some will eventually stick.
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff M (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:11

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:11
I agree with Truckster. Scary part is there are some soft shell prawns who'd believe this stuff.
Wonder if Mr Hubbard has a Toyota or a Nissan??

Geoff.
Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:11

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:11
All a bit rich huh. Got to love the media. They forgot to mention that all of us offroaders carry 20 pounds of C4 in our roller drawers too..... but only for blowing up gates and fishing.
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Follow Up By: Vince NSW - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:36

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:36
Chrispy you should not carry the C4 in the roller draws (well not with the dets as well) as the static may set it off before you get to the good fishing spots.
I live in the Blue Mountains, most people think of that as part of Sydney, but I have had 2 hits with roos over the last 10 years and in a small hatchback they would have been in the front seat with Me. Thank god for bull bars & big 4WDs.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:18

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:18
Vince - Nah.... I've got it all wrapped up in an old sock. The detonators are in another. She'll be roight.........
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Reply By: slyonnet - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:24

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:24
What a joke!
How much do you guys bet the director of this newspaper actually own one of the Porshe, BMW or Lexus 4wd but never use it offroad?
More seriously I reckon we should all send them an e-mail to change their statistics and change that figure of 17%. Have you got their e-mail adress Truckster?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:29

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:29
http://www.smh.com.au/spike/ is the site addy..
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Follow Up By: slyonnet - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:30

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:30
I just sent him the following, hope he likes it:

Spike,

You wrote "You overcompensate for a rampant inferiority complex by surrounding yourself with two tonnes of metal". First of all majority of 4wds actually weight less than 2 tonnes and are not only made of metal so the weight of metal would be even less. Secondly, there are a lot of people around Australia driving fully loaded utes, vans and trucks that weight far more than 2 tonnes. So are you going to call a ban on those vehicles as well?

You also wrote "These cars can be very dangerous". Yes, just like any other vehicle. A bus, a motorbike, a people mover or a sport car are dangerous too in their own way. So are you going to call a ban on those vehicles as well?

People buy 4wds for all sorts of reasons: Because they need it everyday where they live or work, because they go off-road from time to time, because they need the towing capacity for their boat or caravan, ... As far as I know Australia is still a free country where 4wds can be bought and driven legally by any person who can afford one and hold a valid driving license. So stop overcompensating your rampant inferiority complex by taking it on 4wd when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. By the way have you tried anger management to deal with your issues?

Kind Regards,

Sly.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:01

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:01
I would send them a very polite letter inviting them to come along on a trip and see how many CRV's RAV4's, Porsches, V Dubs, BMW's, and Lexuses (Lexii??) on the day out in the bush. Most of them are only a couple of pounds (and a low ratio) short of proper 4WD. They have all the compromises of a high C ofG 4WD without the abilities. These are the vehicles that should be this target. Basically pointless marketing excercises (remember Holden Cruze, "you sit up high in a Holden Cruze", was their only marketing hook)....

I would also ask that they bring a tape measure and measure their Commodore/Falcon wagons against a Patrol/LC. This will illustrate the larger vehicle (lenght) as being the 2wds....height does not count as it does not occupy roadspace.

----------------

The main cause of traffic is the lack of accelleration of trucks from a standing start, particularly when they ocuupy all the available lanes. The solution is to restrict them to the left hand two lanes only, unless indicating to do a right hand turn within the next 1 km (where other road users are obliged to let them in, similar to regulations for busses).

The research (documentary on Discovery Channel a while ago) suggests that there has to be a mainained speed of 60 km/h in order to prevent the "mexican wave" effect of stop-start traffic snarls (those without a perceptable reason). Trucks coming to a dead stop and taking to the next red light to reach 50 km/h before slowing to a stop again repeatedly in peak hour can quite easily cause this effect.
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Follow Up By: BenSpoon - Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 02:09

Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 02:09
Gary mate- how foolish!
you dont get CRV's RAV4's, V Dubs, BMW's, and Lexuses in the bush. It clearly states its only Toyota Cruisers, Nissan patrols and Porsche Cayennes!

but hell- so long as they are distracted by looking at the rolling death-traps cayennes are, they'll never spot the afghan imports I've got stashed in my roller drawers. They're great for setting up camp when you just cant be stuffed. If anyone wants a couple I can get them cheap....
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:39

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 15:39
"between 1996 and 1998, 36 young children died in low-speed driveway accidents; more than half of those killed by passenger vehicles were killed by large 4WDs"

How many camry or falcon wagon's have reverse beepers fitted? I know I can't see a damn thing out the back of my missus work falcon when reversing. And it's got bleep y little wing mirrors that she'd barley be able to tidy her hair with.

How many 4wd's with impared vision have reverse beepers fitted? How many 4wd's have nice large wing mirrors?

There is no logic in most of these people's arguments.
AnswerID: 97668

Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:19

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:19
"in a crash with smaller vehicles, they are more deadly."

But much safer for the occupants of the 4wd...??? It's all in the spin, isn't it?
AnswerID: 97671

Reply By: Rob! - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:31

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 16:31
Is that TRUTH or
is that NEWS LIMITED.
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Reply By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:04

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:04
Here's my reply, thought you might like a read:

Spike,

Thank you for your well thought out, balanced and positive contibution yesterday regarding 4wd's on city roads. You print some dribble from time to time, but take a bow I think you've reached new highs, or is that plumbed new depths.

Have you heard the saying lies, damn lies and statistics? Just listen to the next polition speak and he'll give you a demonstration.

The increase in fatalities can be quite easily explained by the increase in 4wd activity over the past 10 years. Combine this with the fact that many of the fatalities involving 4wd's occur in higher speed zones (100km/h) due to their nature of use and you will see that they are no more dangerous than a passenger car.

The saddest part of this whole debate is that the hipocrites, scaremongers and those of you whom benefit from the debate keep looking past the cause and continue to cry about the symptom. We have been living with "large" vehicles since they had 4 horses insead of 2 pulling the cart. If 4wd's are evil, why have they become so popular? Because they provide so much enjoyment to the families that have them. Look to the normal problems of alcohol, fatigue, road condition and driver training to find your problems. These are problems with drivers of ALL vehicles.

Having read yesterday's paper with interest, I'll feel much better about the safety of my children now when I see that P plate, twin turbo, WRX flying down my street at 140km/hr.

Jason - Sydney

And if anyone's interested in the article, it's here although it's a bit old.
AnswerID: 97688

Follow Up By: iMusty - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:32

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:32
OK You all know I have a Coaster bus but my two bob's worth well... two bob.

I cant see why the clowns would ban 4by's when they are such big dollars to them. The 4by market is in the Billions. Porche, Lexus, BMW and the like have got their ears to the ground here and would'nt have bothered if the Govt was gonna close it all down.

The traditional market holders Toyota, Nisson and the like arn't gonna take it lying down either.

Not to mention the actual users of the machines.

A storm in a tea-cup?

It takes flippin years to get this stuff through parliment. BUT don't take our freedom of choice for granted.

Stranger things have happened.

iMusty

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Reply By: cokeaddict - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:18

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:18
Maybe ...just maybe the reason why they got 83% negative feedback was becasue most sensible owners of 4wd's were out enjoying the beauty this great country has to offer and missed reading the stupid story in the first place.....I could be wrong though but id like to use that as an excuse.
Ange
AnswerID: 97690

Follow Up By: Member - Geoff M (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:32

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 18:32
Hello cokeaddict, that pretty much sums up what I was thinking at the time.
Geoff.
Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Follow Up By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:30

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:30
Hi Ange,

There's another good reason they got that response. The same reason they always get that type of response to any questions like that:

If you ask people to voluntarily reply if they are happy or unhappy, you will get a disproportianate % responding. Anger is a huge motivational force and so 1 in 2 people that are unhappy will respond, yet 1 in 10 people whom are happy will respond.

Everyone in marketing knows these sorts of things, that's why customer service is so important. 1 unhappy customer will tell 10 other people whilst 1 happy customer MAY tell 1 other person. It usually takes something extraordinary to get someone to tell everyone how GOOD they got it.

Statistics are grossly misleading and it makes me angry (see, that's why I'm responding) to see the papers referring to these sorts of numbers as some sort of fact. It's BS! 83% of THOSE WHO COULD BE MOTIVATED TO RESPOND said they were unhappy. Big deal!

Thank you Ange, finished my rant now if you'd like to borrow my soapbox.

Cheers,

Jason.
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 00:11

Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 00:11
Nah Jason,
You said the last word using the soap box mate. This can go on forever and a day.
Reality is this, they can say whatever they want, these things are already registered and legal according to our laws, they cant stop them being on roads. (i'm refering to 4b's already registered) can you imagine a "payback" scheem for 4b's like the disasterous one they tried on guns....its almost funny to think of such a scheme.
These people must be bored and because they have to write something, them look for anything at all. I must point out here that i have not bought a newspaper in over 4 years now, I have everything i need online so why pay money to keep them employed.
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Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 19:43

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 19:43
I just sent them one . Here it is :

Hi Spikes ,

I was amused to read your article on 4WDs and their dangers . Your rhetoric reminds me of the media beat up during the gun debate . You talk up a subject , take the high moral ground and declare anyone not agreeing with you , a redneck with anti social sentiments .

Your readers seem to like brainless ideas regarding 4WDs , so these suggestions are for the cars they drive :

Ban high powered V8 and turbo cars from our roads – maybe we put a ban on any car with a powerful engine . They are responsible for many deaths of under twenty five year olds .

Create a national road speed limit of 60 klm per hour to stop the fatalities on country roads .

Enforce zero tolerance of alcohol for any driver . That would cut the fatalities .

Regards ,

( on my sixth 4WD and I have yet to back over anyone or have an accident )
AnswerID: 97713

Follow Up By: Ray Bates - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:04

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:04
Hi Everyone. The time is near when Channel Seven has a go at 4WDs. It is an annual event with them.
Things have been mentioned about the lack of vision in 4WDs They are no worse and even alot better than trucks.
People say to me why do I have a bull bar. I tell them that if I hid ANYTHING it or they would be thrown under the vehicle instead of coming through the windscreen and causing a worse accident. I was forced and not through choice to travel down from Pt Hedland to Carnarvon at night. Although I drove steady (80kph) I hit eight large roos. If I hadn't had the bullbar I would not have made it.
Talking of vision, we in WA have road trains up to 56mtrs long. Many of these trucks we refer to as wobless mainly due to unmatched trailers or underpowered prime movers. The drivers of these vehicle most certainly cannot see adequatly through their wing mirrors
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:47

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:47
Annual?? What planet are you on, its more like Monthly!

but wait till all the media gang up at once, we will bebleepED.
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Follow Up By: rickwagupatrol - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:59

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 21:59
my dear mr bates........this is a very one eyed cynical view of trucks,,,and i would say that unless YOU drive one every day,,,,day in and day out,,,,,shutup.
these sort of statements from small, naorrwminded people like yourself,,,are of the same ilk that the anti-4wd movement use.
get your facts straight mate.

rick.
a truck driver,,,and a 4by owner.
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Reply By: Baz (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:19

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:19
GAWD, ban everything bigger than a Diahatsui Charade and there will be no more deaths on the roads and we can all go to sleep at night knowing that all will be right with the world !!! yeah right !!!!!!!!!!!

Baz.
AnswerID: 97754

Follow Up By: Ray Bates - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:54

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:54
Hi Rick,
You must well set up rig. Come and look at some of the rigs the boys drive round the Eastern Goldfields that are carting ore and you will see exactly what I mean. The cops have to turn ablind eye to alot of things or mine production would stop dead in their tracks
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:57

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 22:57
God hes back.. with another new name.
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Reply By: Brad and His Disco - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:37

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:37
First there was a gun amnesty, now there will have to a 4wd amnesty.

Take your vehicle to the local tip and have a bull dozer run over and you will be released from your sins.

Seriously, people like this guy should be kid napped by aliens and proded and poked and attached to a weapon of mass destruction and launched to a far far away galaxy.

Although I laughed when a 'well respected' 4wd magazine replied to the great 4wd debate by bagging out truck drivers......

I fall into 2 of the categories....truck driver and 4wd owner.....what hope do i have....I must be waiting for a special sign to unleash my fury.

People like this Joe Hubbard character should be sued for defarmation or slander.

Ah.....!!!!!!!!!! I just feel off my soap box.

AnswerID: 97776

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:39

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:39
They will go bike riders next, havin been a truck driver 8 yrs, 4b owner, and a bike owner for 20+ yrs..

what other sport where people enjoy themselves can they attack next?

Cricket "LAND RIGHTS FOR GHEY LEATHERBALLS"....
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Reply By: Brad and His Disco - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:52

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:52
I cant live with myself anymore, I think I will go down to the tip tomorrow and turn myself in......only if this clown shows me how....hehehehe
AnswerID: 97780

Follow Up By: Brad and His Disco - Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:55

Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 at 23:55
oh sh.t ..... I just realised i have the hat trick.......i own a discovery.

Im going to break into the tip right now...... i cant stand it anymore
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Reply By: Utemad - Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 08:51

Friday, Feb 11, 2005 at 08:51
I remember one of those 'tests' done by one of the current affairs shows about which passenger vehicle had the worst rear vision. They included passenger cars as well as passenger type fourbies (no utes).
Funnily enough even the current affairs guys discovered that the worst rear vision of any passenger vehicle was the current Holden Commodore sedan. I thnk it was the VY but VT-current would be almost identical I imagine. The worst passenger 4x4 was the Prado (last shape). Funnily enough we never saw them call for a ban on Commodores???

I had to laugh as my FIL has been known to be anti 4wd when it suits him due to 'safety' but you should have seen the look on his face when they proclaimed the worst rear vision vehicle to be not only not a 4x4 but it was the vehicle he owns ROFLMAO.
AnswerID: 97810

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