4x4 club members

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 at 21:23
ThreadID: 20545 Views:4141 Replies:7 FollowUps:28
This Thread has been Archived
a lot of you people are members of 4x4 clubs what has happened to the master voices over this problem ,all of the vafwdc and aafwdc officials seem to have gone to ground???????
i,d be lost without my question mark button!!!!
steve
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Vinnie - Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 at 22:26

Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 at 22:26
NSW & ACT meeting will be held at Ferndale (near Dungog) this Saturday 19th.

I believe the latest round of 4by bashing will be in the agenda.

Vinnie
AnswerID: 98880

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 at 22:50

Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 at 22:50
I fired off an email to David Koch(head) at channel seven yesterday, in my capacity of president of the YP 4WD Club of SA. Don't think it would carry much weight though. It really does need the state governing bodies to get a wriggle on.

Of course, the other BIG issue is that there are so many 4by's being used as shopping trolleys by people who would not even know that 4 wheel drive clubs existed. (I'm not critiscing those people; good luck to them....all I'm saying is that the vast majority of 4wd owners would be unlikely to belong to any "movement").

The other issue is that, as with so many things in life, it is a few ratbags that give us a bad name. You only need a few nongs with old, souped-up FJ45's or Datsun G60's (being fair) to do a bit of hooning around the 'burbs" and all of a sudden you hear the do-gooders crying that ALL 4 WHEEL DRIVES should be banned from our roads....etc etc etc. It was the same thing with motor-bikes when i was a young bloke.....you own a big, powerful bike and leather jacket? then you just MUST be a bikie & a rapist etc.

All that does not mean that I do not think the various associations should be pushing the point much harder.....this is a legitimate hobby/sport/recreational passtime; call it what you will. We already pay more for the privelige of owning our 4bys if what they say is true (ie: that we drive gas-guzzlers etc) because we buy more fuel....ergo we pay more fuel excise etc = more TAX.

Sorry, I've prattled on too much and probably should go and have a BEX and good lie down!!!!

Cya

Cheers,

Roachie
AnswerID: 98887

Follow Up By: TheUndertaker - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:16

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:16
Should that not be BECKS [beer] and a little lay down ?? lol.
0
FollowupID: 357783

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 00:23

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 00:23
Steve
Who Say's that 4wd Victoria as not been doing anything about it.

I have been advised via our club delegates at TLC Vic that 4wdvic has advised them that they have spoken to the minister, and the state government has no interest in the media hype.
They continue to monitor the situation and will do whatever is required at the appropriate time and in the appropriate manner.
This does not include starting a stupid argument with the media over their attempt to ignite the argument for the resultant sensationalist press that would result.

Bottom line is that no government will do anything to negatively impact an already volatile local car market.
Just imagine what sort of impact it would have on Ford or Holden if you banned the All wheel drive Territory or Adventura.

Think about it any law affecting 4wd's or Bull bars for that matter would have to be done at the Federal level.
Otherwise how would you be able to police it, if you could own a 4wd or bull bar in the country and not drive it in the city or from one state to another what a ridiculous situation and completely unrealistic.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

AnswerID: 98906

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 00:57

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 00:57
Further to my above post please find listed below a copy of an Email I just received from the Toyota landcruiser Club from Michael Coldham.
I think it is self explanatry.

Subject: FW: 4X4
______________________________________________
From: Michael Coldham
Sent: Thursday, 17 February 2005 11:45 AM
To: 'bolta@heraldsun.com.au'
Subject: 4X4

Bolta excuse the familiarity please

My name is Michael Coldham and I am President of Four Wheel Drive Victoria. I hope you heard Ms Jenny Farrar on Neil Mitchell this morning and despair with me at the arrogance of the Greens and their single minded social engineering policies that have the background of controlling the fundamental nature of our lives.

Statements made with bad science and self serving facts are appalling. Consider the following facts:

Length of Vehicle
Commodore wagon 5033
Ford Falcon 4916mm
Landcruiser 4890
Commodore sedan 4876
Territory 4856
Kluger 4690

Issues are

Bad science: All four wheel drive vehicles comply with Australian design guidelines and emission controls.
Tax not fee: separating one group and charging more is a Tax and maybe outside Councils power
Discriminatory: Creating by regulation differing classes of people and their rights and creating social engineering etc etc

Arrogance of control. Like Labour in Victoria such arrogance: my way is right you are wrong you will do as we say. In Victoria you will be fined for 3 k's over speed etc

Public education is the real issue and I addressed this in the Age.

I happen to agree with Neil Mitchell about the group in the community who as four wheel drivers have an aggressive bullish driving behaviour.

As President of the State Association I have been suggesting to Government that we should have a four wheel drive levy of $50.00, just like a fishing license, and that the money is applied to:

1. Driver training. Driving a 4 x 4 is a leant skill both in the urban environment and in the bush. Our Association runs a very good driver training unit and we will be a registered training organisation next moth for that purpose.

2. Drive awareness. To run media campaigns just like the Motor Bike "see me" campaign to educate all people about driving in the urban environment, and lastly

3. An environmental fund to apply to rehabilitation and maintenance of Forests and Parks within Victoria.

Perhaps with this momentum I can ask for your support in that we actually do something about bad driving in four wheelers and you support me to the Government to have the levy imposed and a fund created and managed by our Association and Parks Victoria. I do have the support of Mark Stone CEO Parks for this scheme.

So why do we have them

More space
More versatile interior packaging
Extra seats
Greater towing capacity
Better vision
Safer
More versatile for private and recreational use

On safety issue twice safer that two wheel drives for pedestrians 22% of pedestrian deaths are 2 wheel drive 11% four wheel drives

Have less accidents
Kill less people and why because we have better vision and perception.

Ford Territory is wheel car of the year and we now make up 20% of the market for all of the above reasons.

If you would like to say a few words on the matter I would be wrapped. If you would like a chat please call.

All the best and I love your work.

Michael Coldham
President

Four Wheel drive Victoria
p +61 3 9672 2601 direct
f +61 3 9642 0271
M 0419 500 223
e mrc@andrice.com.au
w <www.fwdvictoria.org.au

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

AnswerID: 98913

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 01:02

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 01:02
To add to Michael's list:

Commodore Sedan - 4876mm long
Commodore Wagon - 5033mm long.

Toyota Landcruiser Troop Carrier - 5060mm long.
Toyota Landcruiser Cab Chassis - 5075mm long.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357315

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 08:02

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 08:02
Oh right... so Michael just wants to force us to pay $50 so his club can "train" us all - would he like "training" to be compulsory too? A touch of arrogance I think.

He acknowledges there is "bad driving" by 4Wdrivers which requires his "training" to improve. Is he also intending to establish a training unit to deal with bad driving by Holden Barrina drivers?

With friends like this; who need enemies?

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 357323

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:03

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:03
I think Mike that as we have seen from you before the label that you attempt to apply to others is more fittingly applied to yourself.

If you actually read what Mr Coldham is suggesting, and if you were to place yourself in the category of a responsible 4 wheel driver then you would see that he is attempting to quietly placate the media by showing them that not all of us are complete idiots who appear to go out of their way to behave as such.

His quote.
"I happen to agree with Neil Mitchell about the group in the community who as four wheel drivers have an aggressive bullish driving behavior."

Are you perhaps suggesting that this group type does not exist ?

Weather his idea has complete Merritt, I personally would reserve my judgment until I saw the full concept.

By the way it's not "His" club. He is representing the Victorian 4 Wheel Drive Association and I posted these details in response to Steve's post asking what the 4 wd Association is doing.
As can be seen they are as I first stated being proactive in a quiet determined way.

And no doubt you will reply with negative comments in regards to the VFWDA, but you should consider as one example that you are only able to continue accessing the majority of High Country Tracks due to the proactive relationship that this Association has with government bodies such as Parks Victoria.
And I guess you are not a member of a club so you are getting a free ride from this association, so I don't see where you have the right to be critical.

So your reply post also begs the question "What do you suggest?" as being so outspoken in a critical way with no offer of alternative ways and means is pretty arrogantly stupid in my book.
Put up or shut up.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357340

Follow Up By: Wombat - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 11:34

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 11:34
Memo to yourself Paul - Delete Landcruiser Club of Victoria from the list of potential clubs to join. I don't want Michael Coldham, President of Four Wheel Drive Victoria, representing me with that sort of arrogance. Mike Harding is spot on with his comments!
0
FollowupID: 357351

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:05

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:05
So pay $50 to get trained how to drive or just sell your 4wd and drive like an idiot in your dunnydore. Nice problem solver than one....

Who need's enemies eh....
0
FollowupID: 357379

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:09

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:09
Mike. The $50 you seem so dead set against has worked very well in the past in Victoria. When it was last introduced the money was mainly directed towards track repair & led directly to many tracks remaining open. The Association even succesfully worked to open a few that had been closed for years. I bet many drivers in NSW would love to pay $50 if they could get all those tracks closed in the 80's opened again. In the scale of owning a 4x4 $50 is a drop in the ocean. (Not even half a tank of fuel).
Cheers Craig..........
0
FollowupID: 357380

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:16

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 17:16
>I think Mike that as we have seen from you before

I didn’t realise you spoke on behalf of the whole forum? Or is that the Royal “We”?

>the label that you attempt to apply to others is more
>fittingly applied to yourself.

Now John you know full well you took a raging dislike to me when I contested your silly figure for the number of Amateur Radio Operators in Oz. You don’t take well to being challenged. That’s fine with me – when people with attitudes like yours start liking me is the time I’ll worry.

>If you actually read what Mr Coldham is suggesting

He said:
“I happen to agree with Neil Mitchell about the group in the community who as four wheel drivers have an aggressive bullish driving behaviour.”

I don’t know what Neil Mitchell said and Andrew Bolt probably doesn’t either but Coldham has just confirmed that [many?] 4WD drivers exhibit “aggressive bullish driving behaviour”. And this man is president of 4WD Vic!?

>Are you perhaps suggesting that this group type does not exist ?

Jesus wept! Of course they do – and there is a similar group of people who exhibit “aggressive bullish driving behaviour” and drive Holden Barrinas – but you don’t get Holden writing e-mails confirming it to major newspaper columnists and suggesting only a Holden training course (paid for by other car owners) can redress this terrible situation, do you?

>As can be seen they [4WD Vic] are as I first stated being proactive in a
>quiet determined way.

The e-mail lacked structure. It was barely coherent in parts. It was confused. The English was poor, the spelling was incorrect and the punctuation was atrocious. Additionally it painted us as a bunch of louts who only “proper training” could save. If you call that “proactive” I’d prefer they were passive. Other than that? I quite liked it :)

>And no doubt you will reply with negative comments in regards to the VFWDA

I don’t think they need any help from me in being negative.

>but you should consider as one example that you are only able to
>continue accessing the majority of High Country Tracks due to the
>proactive relationship that this Association has with government
>bodies such as Parks Victoria.

I say that’s rubbish and challenge you to show that “the majority of High Country Tracks” would have been closed were it not for 4WD Vic.

>And I guess you are not a member of a club so you are getting a
>free ride from this association

A free stuff-up more like.

And please excuse me but when I bought my 4WD I didn’t realise there was some sort of moral obligation on me to join a club, I just bought it because I wanted to be free to go places – not to have to conform to other people’s ideas of what I should do.

>So your reply post also begs the question "What do you suggest?"

About what? How to make people love 4WDs? That’s an impossible task as we discovered in 1996 with firearms (who were you supporting then John? When it may not have affected you?) when a stereotype has been established (and confirmed by 4WD Vic!). The only other option is to gain political clout and scare the f*** out of some politicians and that is not going to be done by a state body who can barely write an e-mail.

>Put up or shut up

As much as you may seek to control others; I don’t need your permission to speak.

So far I’ve written to 7 Members of Parliament – federal and state (and I’ve telephoned two others), how many have you written to John?

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm
0
FollowupID: 357382

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:17

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:17
Memo to yourself Paul - Delete Landcrusier Club of Victoria from the list of potential clubs to join.

Second memo to yourself Paul - I had better find a club that is not a member of 4 WD Vic.

Good Luck with this second memo.

Third memo to yourself Paul - Make sure brain is engaged before making such comments.

I wish you would join a club then you may realize what's actually being done to ensure access for all.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357616

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:16

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:16
John,

The disjointed, incoherent, incomprehensible list of non-factual comments which you describe as a "self explanatry" email are exactly the reason why I won't be joining any club which is a member of 4WD Vic.

"Third memo to yourself Paul - Make sure brain is engaged before making such comments." - I would suggest people who live in glass house should not throw stones. I'm not the sheep following blindly behind the leader - A leader who expouses the virtues of "a four wheel drive levy of $50.00, just like a fishing license" which he would happily take off your hands, as "Our Association runs a very good driver training unit and we will be a registered training organisation next moth for that purpose." Alternatively this levy could be spent by on "Drive awareness. To run media campaigns just like the Motor Bike "see me" campaign to educate all people about driving in the urban environment". Is this man a fool or can he only see as far as the end of his own nose. For most 4WDs the only trip off the bitumen is onto the nature strip for a weekly wash and polish. Although I am in favour of more taxes being spent on advertising as it sort of completes the cycle, returning the funds to their original owners. His third magnificent suggestion is "An environmental fund to apply to rehabilitation and maintenance of Forests and Parks within Victoria. Hang on, don't you and I pay taxes which should have a component directed for this purpose. I am assuming you pay taxes (probably shouldn't).
No, I think he can stick his levy in the same place you can stick your wishes and opinions!

With regard to his references to "the group in the community who as four wheel drivers have an aggressive bullish driving behaviour", he may be speaking on your behalf (and it wouldn't suprise me), but he isn't speaking for me. I'm sure Mike and Jeff have responded on behalf of the majority on this point.

But, I think the highlight of your friend's email is his comment that 4WDs cause less deaths "because we have better vision and perception". The mind boggles as to how simply dring a 4WD improves ones perception, or is that one the components that only real 4WDs like Toyota troop carriers have?

To quote Mike, because it sums up my feelings on the subject ". . . please excuse me but when I bought my 4WD I didn’t realise there was some sort of moral obligation on me to join a club, I just bought it because I wanted to be free to go places – not to have to conform to other people’s ideas of what I should do".

Memo to yourself Paul - John (Vic) is a poor, insecure fool.
0
FollowupID: 357627

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:27

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:27
Mr Harding
I clearly pointed out you were wrong on the HF issue with my own personal situation as an example.
You are the one who took a dislike to me (Not that I give a $hit) and for that fact towards anyone else who calls you to task and shows that you are wrong with your arrogantly over the top criticism of people who don't happen to agree with you.

(You would not believe the member messages I received about your arrogant attitude, So I know that it really is a WE.)

In regards to Mr Coldhams email, the only reason I posted the copy was to just show that things are going on that others are not aware of.
I did not offer any comment for or against what he is suggesting, in fact I stated that I would reserve my judgment.
Unlike you who is quick to pass judgment without understanding the full picture.
If you have an issue with what Mr Coldham has written then I would suggest you write to him and not address your disagreement towards myself or 4wd clubs.

On a personal note, I would comment that the quickest way to stop an argument is to agree with the person instigating the argument and then work towards a workable agreement.

As for High Country access, I think that you should ask yourself the question "Why do I still have access to the tracks that I do?" and "Why do so many from NSW come over the border to travel Victorian tracks?"

Just because 4wd Vic does not tell the world in general what is achieved does not mean it did not happen.
Almost all Victorian 4 wheel drive clubs assist with track clearing and condition monitoring / reporting as part of a program set up between 4 wd Vic and the various State Departments.
This in turn ensures continued dialog and good relation's about a variety of issues between the state government and 4wd Vic as well as continued access.
One other small point, as I write this I am looking at a bumper sticker released by 4wd Vic that says "Public Land - Your land! ACCESS FOR ALL." Maybe you have seen it?.
Pretty clear to me that it does not label clubs only and so is representing your interests as well.
I wonder did you offer a donation towards the cost of producing these.

I also never suggested you "Had a moral obligation" to join any sort of a club, you do what you please but don't criticize those who do work for the best end result. And if you as a non club member reap a benefit then bully for you, you should be pleased that you have obtained the free ride you obviously enjoy taking and you have been able to satisfy your ego by claiming that your way is the right way to boot.

"As much as you may seek to control others; I don’t need your permission to speak."
I had to laugh about this inane comment, leveled in your attempt to belittle me when it is clear who is attempting to control who.

You are a very self centred person and clearly you don't see or attempt to see the issues from others perspective.
I hope you enjoy your 4wd next time you are on a High Country track and see that a fallen tree has recently been cleared, just for one instance please consider that, that tree may have been cleared by a member of a Victorian 4wd club during it's ongoing track program and enjoy the end result.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357629

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:48

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 13:48
Paul it is also clear that you fit the same category of Mr Harding with your attitude.

So can I suggest you apply your name to my above reply to Mr Harding.

It also shows your level of intelligence when you seek to belittle others with such inane and stupid comments such as...
"Memo to yourself Paul - John (Vic) is a poor, insecure fool."

Your assumptions towards my character and behavior and even the type of vehicle that I drive shows that you have the same mentality as the anti 4wd forum.

Does this make you feel good ? I certainly hope so.

Cheers
From a poor insecure fool.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357636

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:13

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:13
Yes, Mike and I apparently do agree that Mr Coldhams email is one of the most unintelligible, ill-informed, treacherous pieces of diatribe that we have witnessed, and that you, in praising the efforts of his establishment, are little more than a sad, little lemming intent on following him over the cliff and into the sea.
0
FollowupID: 357641

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:26

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:26
Paul is that the best you can come back with?.

Disappointed is not a strong enough word.

You make assumptions not in evidence, Which again shows your flawed thought process. not very intelligent I must say.

Cheers again
From a poor insecure, sad little foolish Lemming
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357645

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:38

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 14:38
Sorry, I'll try harder next time. Actually I though my response was a fairly accurate summation of this entire argument.

BTW if disappointed isn't a strong enough word - what is?
0
FollowupID: 357648

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 19:22

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 19:22
Ah John…

I was going to reply properly to your post but… hell… it’s a beautiful evening so I’ve poured a glass of wine and I’m going to sit on the veranda and watch the sun set over the bay instead.

Very briefly:

If you could reduce the personal abuse of me (and others) I think we would all appreciate it. I may disagree strongly with you John but I don’t believe I abuse you.

----------------------------------
>but you should consider as one example that you are only able to
>continue accessing the majority of High Country Tracks due to the
>proactive relationship that this Association has with government
>bodies such as Parks Victoria.

I say that’s rubbish and challenge you to show that “the majority of High Country Tracks” would have been closed were it not for 4WD Vic.
----------------------------------

I thought you’d duck out of that one :)

>You would not believe the member messages I received about your arrogant attitude, So I >know that it really is a WE.

Hey! I’m delighted I annoy some of your friends as much as I annoy you. It’s a shame these masses don’t have the courage to post their dislike to me or to the threads though.

That’s it John – time for that wine (a nice unwooded Chardonnay- yum :)

Mike Harding

PS. Me and my Stihl chainsaw have probably cleared more trees from HC tracks than you have had warm breakfasts.

PPS. Stay cool John – blood pressure at your age, you know – and remember, it’s only the internet – it’s not important :)
0
FollowupID: 357678

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 00:20

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 00:20
"I say that’s rubbish and challenge you to show that “the majority of High Country Tracks” would have been closed were it not for 4WD Vic."
During the 80's when the Great Alpine National Park was put forward, one of the key proposals was to follow a similar model as for the Kosciusko Nat Park. ie: Sealed roads leading to pine post car parks & camp sites. The area for the park was also conciderably larger. Alternative proposals from locals, high country cattlemen etc etc & including the 4x4 Assoc all contributed to the access to tracks & free camp sites that many now take for granted. Today the Assoc has currently about 200KM of high country tracks under immediate threat of closure & are the key group negotiating with Parks to keep them open. The successfull mass rally to save Dingo crk track was a turning point where the Assoc put Parks on notice that you can't just close any track without consultation. Any track up for closure is now put to the Assoc 1st. No other organisation has that state wide committment.

"And please excuse me but when I bought my 4WD I didn’t realise there was some sort of moral obligation on me to join a club"
You certainly don't need to join any club or assoc but please don't belittle the huge contribution they have made. Some of the reasons you are "free to go places"
Adopt a hut program
Adopt a track
Car body removal
Post Fires track clearing program
Mass protests
Regional representitives
Track surveys

And as of today it looks likely they've just saved the toilet block/picnic shelter at the junction of the Melbourne/Woods Point/Aberfeldy roads thanks to a club volunteering to rebuild it. Who else will do it? You??? I doubt it.................
Cheers Craig....... :-)

0
FollowupID: 357725

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 00:37

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 00:37
My contribution to this debate was never intended to belittle those who choose to join a 4WD club Craig. That is the prerogative of the individual. I also acknowledge that 4WD clubs may contribute to my ability to traverse remote parts of this great country. Mine was simply an attempt to highlight the foolhardiness of following an elected representative blindly without any thought given to the ramifications of their illogical, egotistical ramblings.

Unfortunately, John took offence to this proposition!
0
FollowupID: 357727

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 02:07

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 02:07
Paul what can I say.
What a hypocrite you are, you go out of your way to put down 4wd Vic and 4wd clubs in general based on one email without even considering or acknowledging the effort that this organization and it's member clubs and their respective volunteer executive's have done for many many years.

You then make the issue personal by labeling myself without any basis for same. You assumed facts not in evidence by assuming that I or for that matter anyone else follows an elected representative blindly.
This really shows that you should ensure that you always refer to memo number 3.

I ask where in any of my posts do I state that I supported or followed Mr Coldham in regards to his email contents.
My comment was in fact "I did not offer any comment for or against what he is suggesting, in fact I stated that I would reserve my judgment."
I also repeat that if you have issues with what Mr Coldham has written then you should direct those comments to him.

My comments in general are made with the knowledge that Mr Coldham and his executive have made a bigger contribution to the overall cause of 4 wheel driving than you or Mr Harding with his chainsaw will ever come close to.
And yes I support 4wd Vic and the contents of one email will not change my mind about that.

It's obvious that Crackles has been involved with his club and 4wd Vic for a lot longer than I have, And just maybe you and Mr Harding should be directing a note of thanks towards people like him who take an active interest in our hobby and are prepared to stand up and do the job when required.
It's painfully obvious that you and Mr Harding won't do it.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357729

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:05

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:05
Sorry to disappoint you again John, but I really don't want to play today.

Let's all just hope that, in your words, 4WD Vic "continue to monitor the situation and . . . do whatever is required at the appropriate time and in the appropriate manner."

You have a nice day!
0
FollowupID: 357780

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:31

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 11:31
The $50 was so well used last time?? Please dont be so blind.

Another $50 LEVY on 4wds? dont we pay rego and road tax and tolls and how much tax in fuel these days?

Why not just hand your pay over to the government and beg for food at the end of the week.

I have a driven trailers for over 8 yrs around aussie.. Please point out to me why I need to be taught how to drive a 800kg LJ50 Zook...
0
FollowupID: 357785

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 12:08

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 12:08
Ok boys, I made a very small comment on this right at the start and therfore have been following this debate/conversation/slagfest whatever in my emails as the followups have streamed through.

Now I am from WA and do not have a full understanding of what 4WD Vic. do and don't do. I do know however that a lot of these groups have volunteers that put in hard work that get's pretty well ignored by the community and even their own members. The work done by some of these groups is extremely important in the survival of our past times and hobbies and more of us should be out there doing volinteer work (including myself!).

BUT. (how does it go, "everything before the BUT is BullSht") :-)

The letter this half wit wrote was and absolute shot in the foot for anyone who drives a 4wd, be it for towing, be it for saftey, be it for 4wding, camping for ANY reason. His spelling and gramma were pathetic. (I'm no whiz when it comes to english, so I know to get someone else to proof read and important peice of writing before it goes public!). What the hell was he thinking??? Did he get anyone else to read it first before releasing it or is he just stupid?
I don't know the guy, maybe he's quite a decent bloke, maybe he's even quite smart, maybe he just screwed up, but for heavan's sake, THINK before you release documents like that....

My 2c.

Oh and for the record, would you guys all go and have a cold shower. Stop attacking each other, we are all fighting for the same cause and should not be squabling between ourselves.

Does that make it 4c?

Some of you guys do have off days and hit a bit below the belt, in fact some of you have done it to me in the past, I admit I probally have done it to other people in the past, but I think we are all useful people on this forum with different areas of expertese so let's leave it at that and get on with pointing the guns at the anti 4wd people instead of our selves.

6c, hey maybe now I'll be able to see dead people?? :-P

Have a great day everyone.

0
FollowupID: 357789

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 14:46

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 14:46
Don't stress about the emotions Jeff. I'll happily buy John a beer if our paths cross again somewhere.

I felt it necessary to vent my spleen and point out the anomaly when I read that Mr Coldham had written this email on my behalf (as a responsible 4WD owner) "to quietly placate the media by showing them that not all of us are complete idiots".
0
FollowupID: 357808

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 15:17

Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 at 15:17
Truckster you are so right. We pay way too much tax & yes some of it should go to keeping our tracks open but lets be realistic. While my butt points to the ground they aren't going to spend the required money & it will always be cheaper for Parks to close a track than keep it open.
If you travel to SA & want to go to the Desert Parks you need a permit. Head to NSW Parks & they have individual user fees. Cape York, pay at the ferry. But go to Vic high country. Free. Although it would be nice to have this remain, in the current days of "User pays" self funded Government departments have to get the money from somewhere.
Although I hate the thought of paying 1 more tax, if the choice came down to each paying $50 to keep them open I certainly wouldn't hesitate.
As you obviously have more reliable sources than I, where do you believe the 4x4 levey was spent so poorly last time??

Cheers Craig.............
0
FollowupID: 357811

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 09:45

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 09:45
Come on, you do not expect the 4wd association to do anything honestly do you? With those megre funds they take from EVERY new member each year, that would mean leaving the air conditioned offices..
AnswerID: 98937

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:10

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:10
Funding is an issue with almost every body of this nature.

You do what you can with the means available to you. Nobody is suggesting the system is perfect.

You and I are members of a club and so part of our fees do contribute to the cause, What about the hundreds of thousands who by there own choice elect not to join a club and fund their sport / hobby in some small way, but yet want all the benefits of such and are quick to criticize the association for doing nothing to protect there interests.

Why don't you offer to act as a media spokes person Truckster, That would be interesting.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357342

Reply By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:23

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 10:23
I'm considering removing my club sticker off the back window. There are plenty of people who hate 4WD's that look for anything to identify you by in traffic - all in an attempt to be able to complain about your fourby to someone....irrespective of whether or not you have wronged them. The last thing I want is for some idiot to go calling our club with an unfounded complaint - or worse still, complain about the club to the media just to add fuel to the fire.

Sad times.
AnswerID: 98944

Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 16:48

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 16:48
It is unfortunate but seems to be the way that those not willing to help clubs & Associations with time & effort to keep the tracks open & improve our image are always the ones most critical of the few hard workers doing their best. Anyone who get's involved in the 4x4 Association would know of the hundreds of hours dedicated to the task of keeping "Access for all" on the 4x4 network. Of course if you were to sit on your hands and let someone else do it all then I spose it would appear nothing was being said or done. NSW in the 80's was a classic example of everyone sitting around for someone else to do the work while the Parks closed off 1/2 the tracks in just a few years. So while some on this site drum up a bit of hysteria I know the dedicated few are still out there addressing the issues.
Cheers Craig...........
AnswerID: 98989

Follow Up By: GOB & denny vic member - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 21:16

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 21:16
i hope your not pointing the finger at me
0
FollowupID: 357401

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 21:49

Friday, Feb 18, 2005 at 21:49
No not you Steve. I'm sure as an active member of the VAFWDC you are well aware of much of the great work currently being done :-) Craig.....
0
FollowupID: 357404

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:06

Monday, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:06
Spot on Craig.
It's always those who sit back and do nothing that are first to criticize and demand "Whats in it for me"

Since becoming a member of a 4wd club, I have been amazed at the amount of work done by member clubs of 4wd Vic in regards to track issues and continued access.

As some don't seem to realize that the various government bodies would have closed many tracks due to lack of maintenance budget to keep them open. (Cheaper to close them than maintain them)
The proactive aspect of a system that divides area's of Victoria up to various clubs who then take over the condition monitoring and assist with basic maintenance and tree clearing is what keeps them open in the long run.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 357614

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)