Insurance Scheme

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 05:04
ThreadID: 5273 Views:1951 Replies:12 FollowUps:20
This Thread has been Archived
Sorry guys - just got my revewal notice in from TCIS so I'm somwhat hot under the collar.

In brief, agreed value dropped from $53k to $50k and the premiums gone up from $800 or so to $1209. That's 50% for Christs sake!
Additionally, I have to be a mamber of a 4WD club (another $80 or so) which effectively brings my premium to $1300

Having rung up three insurers last night, I found the following:
NRMA - Agreed value $50k - premium of $874
AAMI - Agreed value of $52.7k - premium of $779
CGU - Won't continue insuring directly because of my 2" lift kit

My car is not heavily modified. Only thing on the engineer report is a 2" liftkit and 285/75R16 tyres. Everything else is simply accessories.

Now, my question is:
If Ken and his folks at TCIS are brokers and have gathered this "panel" to bring "best value", why have the premiums gone up by 50% as a consequence and why aren't these companies included?
Not enough margins????

Today, I plan to call Allianz and see how much they want to give me the same insurance directly without TCIS being in the middle. I bet you they will underquote TCIS

Now, I have no problems with paying a fair price for my insurance but from where I stand, this is blatent ripoff.

Where is the value TCIS bring to the 4WD association if they are 40% - 50% higher than mainstream companies (as above).
(Don't forget, no more compulsory club memberships for another 100 bucks or so.)

I don't think I'll be calling TCIS again

Ari
(pretty cheesed off)
2001 Patrol 3.0TDI
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Reply By: tim - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 07:54

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 07:54
I have a 2002 guIII 3.0 & I am with tcis, currently no modefications and my invoice was $786 and they put me onto hotline insurance and that was in April.
A lot of the problems with other companies is that once you say you have this mod or that mod they don`t want to know you.
TIM
AnswerID: 21801

Follow Up By: howesy - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 19:06

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 19:06
As you probably know brokers broker a deal with the insurance company at corporate rate and add usually 10% for their fee. This is great for the first year but from experience they have many customers and dont bother to do much the second year except to glance at the renewal premium forwarded from the underwriter. The underwriter is who your insurer is not the broker. Insurance companies are greedy and prey on 4wd vehicles I found I had to ring and get up them and say your my broker you get paid a fee to broker me a good deal not to pass on whatever the insurer wants to deal out. tell them its not good enough they either get you a good deal or they can forget your custom and their fee.
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FollowupID: 14275

Reply By: Steve L - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:29

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:29
You also want to check the wording of the policies with the other companies in terms of what they cover off-road.

I'm with AAMI and they apparently cover all 'marked' roads, so if you're offroad and the road appears on a map you're supposedly covered. I'll be doing a lot of ringing around for my next renewal as well, as I'd prefer a bit more peace of mind when 4WDing.
AnswerID: 21802

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:50

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:50
But they don't cover you on 4WD club trips...

Check my entry #4877, big long entry 2/3 of the way down.
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FollowupID: 14225

Follow Up By: Member - Rohan K - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:14

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:14
I am with AAMI and pushed them re their definition of "off-raod" roads. The response I received was that "bush-bashing" is not covered but if you are on a track, clearly defined by wheel marks/ruts, even if it not a mapped tracked, you are covered.

I'm not with a club and don't yet have any "mechanical' mods so that isn't an issue for me (yet).Life just ain't that serious.
Rohan (Sydney)
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FollowupID: 14231

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:15

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:15
Just a thought, maybe we should alter the constitution of all our "4WD clubs" to become "Birdwatching clubs". That'll stuff the insurers right up!!! LOL
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FollowupID: 14235

Reply By: stillthinkinaboutit - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 09:19

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 09:19
Hi Ari,

I am going through the same exercise, my existing policy is underwritten by CGU and I have been advised that they will not cover me with my proposed 2" suspension lift. I also found out that I am not insured for use of 4WD in State forests or National Parks, Stockton Beach, fire trails, 4WD Club trips etc.

Have looked at policies that specifically state ( in writing ) that they cover 4WD for offroad use and found that all the premiums have jumped up quite a lot.

I have a 1998 GU Patrol ST4500 ( GU I ) I have rating one / 60% no claim, have had for 2 years, no accidents in last 3 years. Presently have no modifications, a few of the usual accessories, CB, Dual Batteries, Electric Brake Control etc.

TCIS quoted $ 1126 for 29K Agreed Value ( Underwriter Allianz ) and was advised that the premium would need to be reviewed if I go ahead with 2" lift. They used to use CGU as the main underwriter and CGU has pulled back, they will no longer cover modified vehicles, even 2" lift or less. Now each vehicle is assessed as an individual and the underwriter chosen will depend on the level of modifications etc. This also impacts on the time to get quotes from TCIS,mine took over a week, also took 2 days to get answers on any changes.

Australian 4WD Insurance quoted $ 1168 for Market value of approx. 33K ( Underwriter is NZI/CGU ) no problems with 2" lift being fitted. I was told to just advise them when I have 2" suspension lift fitted, premium will remain the same.
I don't know how long this will last as the underwriter NZI is owned by CGU, don't think it will be long before they also need to change underwriters, hence prmiums will change.

Bushtrack 4x4 Policy from OAMPS ( was Kenyon ) quoted $ 1096 for Market value of approx. 33.5K. Underwriter not specified. Will not except 2" lift, must be less than 2". Also advised that I will need engineers certificate and that a lane change test would need to be performed at my expense even for less than 2" lift. They are presently negotiating with other underwriters and that may change the requirement for lane change test and may also allow 2" lift or higher, but at present they will only quote for stock suspension, each modification must be agreed to and the premium will be adjusted accordingly, assuming they will allow the modifications.

Please keep me informed of your progress, greatly interested in your findings.
As others have mentioned, check the fine print about what sort of offroad coverage the other policies have, most have dodged the question when I have asked, certainly could not get anything in writing.

As my present policy expires at the end of the month I am still trying to find the best option.

Regards,
Mark
AnswerID: 21804

Reply By: simon - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 09:29

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 09:29
Ari

try allianze (spelling?) i have my 99 GU insured with them as i wont touch TCIS again for simular reasons.
Allianze insured it for 45k ( agreed) at a cost of $575 fixed no claim, TCIS would only go 35K and were $1050.
Beware if you ever need to claim though TCIS they are very Fu@$$n slow, to took 7 weeks for my claim to go through and i know one person that had too wait 6 mths.

PS i only have a 2" lift (wink wink)
AnswerID: 21806

Follow Up By: stillthinkinaboutit - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:17

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:17
Hi Simon and Ari,

Just got off the phone from Allianz. Quote for my 1998 GU ST4500 ( GU I ) as mentioned in my previous post is stock, no mods, I am rating 1 / 60% , no under 30 drivers, they quoted the following :

Agreed Value Policy $ 33,750, Premium $ 894
Market Value Policy, Premium $ 842

Add $ 72 for No claim bonus protection. (1 at fault claim per policy year )
Add $ 40 for deletion of windscreen Excess ( 1 claim per policy year )

Will cover vehicle anywhere in Australia as long as you are legally allowed to be there, must have permits or legal documents.

Certainly a bit cheaper than TCIS.

Regards,
Mark

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FollowupID: 14238

Follow Up By: stillthinkinaboutit - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:21

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:21
Should have mentioned that Allianz will only cover a maximum of 50mm vehicle height increase above standard.
This means total 50mm, so tyres and suspension are included in 50mm figure.

Regards,
Mark
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FollowupID: 14239

Follow Up By: Allyn (Pilbara) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 23:23

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 23:23
Allianz also have restrictions on percentage of vehicle mods. That was only from an online quote though and I haven't spoken to them personally. Once I listed all the after market accessories (mine is a STD Landcruiser) the site rejected the request for a quote.
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FollowupID: 14298

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:22

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:22
How about everyone bombard the 4wd association in their state with these queries.. EVERYONE on EVERY list is bitching about it, but nothing is being done to HELP US!!!!

The 4wd association are "supposed" to be lookin after us, and if this is looking after us, Hitler wasnt such a bad bloke compared really..

Im going to bring this up at our club meeting tonight with our insurance officer.

Other insurance companies, I would be VERY weary and read the fine print, or even seek lawyer to read the fine print to make sure your covered where you think you are..

Ari, you have always had to be in a 4wd club to use TCIS anyway..

YMMV
AnswerID: 21818

Follow Up By: Allyn (Pilbara) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 23:26

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 23:26
you picked my brains completely Truckster !!!
Surely there is something we can do about this. Absolutely EVERYONE is bitching about it yet there appears to be little that is happening in our favour. We have the power through our money/premiums and I believe all it will take is a little flex of some muscle.
My protest at the present time is to forgo insurance altogether but that can only be shortlived and is applicable only whilst I am living in such a remote area.
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FollowupID: 14299

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 07:15

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 07:15
Maybe organize a "pettition of disapproval" of sorts over the next 2-3 months at your club meetings (signed by all members) and get your state delegate to foward them all at ,say, the October meeting of your State council of 4WD clubs meeting. That should make them sit up and take notice, as there is nothing worse from an organizational point of view than having pieces of paper in front of you. They cannot be ignored and must be written into the minutes, giving us an "anchor" point for negotiation. Could be time for a new insurance brokerage firm to take over from TCIS. Surely we have a 4WDing Lawyer who could draft up an appropriate piece for us?
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FollowupID: 14305

Reply By: Member -BJ (Sydney) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 13:53

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 13:53
CGU now owned by NRMA. My gu11 is insured with NRMA agreed value 49,230 premium $1031 2in lift + ussual accessaries , take on any road or trackRegards Bob
3 Weeks till Gulf trip
AnswerID: 21829

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 14:39

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 14:39
BJ...

As Gary says, hit NRMA with the hard questions on whatthey consider offroad, eg parks etc...

And get everything in writing.... Cover your a$$ I say...
I just dont trust insurance companies.
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FollowupID: 14252

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:21

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:21
...and cover for 4WD club trips. (for now, or in the future if you are not already a member of a club)

There could be an argument put foward by the insurers that being on a list (this one, or any other list eg. Yahoo) constitutes being in a 4WD (oriented) club...
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FollowupID: 14261

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:24

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:24
perhaps we should all join the local birdwatching club as well and say "the accident happened on a birdwatching club outing, nothing to do with a 4WD club!!"
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FollowupID: 14262

Follow Up By: tim - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:03

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:03
Garyinoz
I am in a fishing club and they (the insurance company)will not insure us on a club trip either,unless we pay a massive increase in our premiums.
They are just all the same
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FollowupID: 14312

Reply By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 15:12

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 15:12
2001 100 series GXL 4.5 no lift, market value, Alloy bull, Mags, rear sun shade, (wifes taxi) Business Insurance Allianz; premium 31/12/02 - 31/12/03 $582.00 stamp duty $70.42, gst $58.20 = $710.62.

Richard
AnswerID: 21841

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:55

Wednesday, Jun 04, 2003 at 16:55
From Ken Bradley TCIS Director!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think his 5-15% is in dream land
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce,

Thanks for copying me in.

As I have not maintained my connection to the chat page - at least I can't find it, I would appreciate you inserting the following or giving me details on how to myself.

Majority of insurers will NOT cover vehicles with lift kits 2" or over.

If insuring without telling them, you have no cover.

90% of TCIS clients are seeing increases in the vicinity of 5 % - 15% per year, standard for private motor.

All are covered for agreed value.

Balance, depending on home base, age and a number of other factors are experiencing higher premiums.

We make no apology for requesting people be members of the 4WD Assoc and affiliated clubs - that's what the facility is all about.

Mr Palsson was invited to ring us to discuss options, invitation stands.
Regards

Ken Bradey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AnswerID: 21849

Follow Up By: apalsson - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:50

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:50
Hi all,

Without wanting to prolong this thread more than necessary, some
statements are made in this reply that aren't entirely correct.

I have had no problem finding insurers that will insure my car with a
2" lift kit. This seems to be the maximum height that can easily be
insured though. So far, only one company has declined because of the
lift.

No "invitation to call and discuss" has been made to me. I received a
call from TCIS some 3 weeks ago, asking about the height of my
suspension lift, which I explained to them that was the same as I
reported when I took up the insurance, or 2 inches (50mm). This has
not changed.

"Agreed value" was never agreed with me. The letter from TCIS
actually stated two figures, both $50,000 and $53,640, neither of
which were ever referred to me to agree on. I have no quarrels about
the value though, but it's a strange thing to call them "Agreed
value" when only one party has "agreed" them.

Nothing in the vehicle has changed since I modified it about 2 years
ago. All modificatiopns were engineered and reported to TCIS.

I have written to Ken directly, but yet to receive a reply.

Regards

Ari
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FollowupID: 14318

Follow Up By: Member - Doug - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 16:46

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 16:46
Ken,
If you can't be bothered finding out how to use these threads you don't deserve our business. It seems there may be some inaccuracies in your statement about 'no-cover for 2" lifts too.
Try a Customer Service Course..

respectfully yoursfrom:
The Welshmun & The Witch
setting off in 2004
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FollowupID: 14360

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 19:52

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 19:52
Hey Doug,

Read it again before you spray him...

He doesnt say No Cover for 2inch lifts at all, so there is no inaccuracy at all. The first 13 words in the quotes give it away.

He said "Majority of insurers will NOT cover vehicles with lift kits 2" or over."

If you think the director (Ken is the actual director of TCIS, so I'm impressed HE himself bothers to answer any of these questions...) of an insurance company has time to answer every Internet 4wd forum in Australia (~50ish? with each having 200+ members?) and each thread 50+ questions individually, theres somethin' wrong! Insurance would triple if that was the case.
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FollowupID: 14378

Follow Up By: Member - Doug - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 20:41

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 20:41
OK, Truckster(Vic),
maybe I was a little hasty. Apologies to Ken if I was.
However, we don't seem have got Ari's original gripe addressed yet . .
Doug
from:
The Welshmun & The Witch
setting off in 2004 for 2+ years
in '93 Series 80 & Dream Camper
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FollowupID: 14384

Follow Up By: Allyn (Pilbara) - Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 11:16

Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 11:16
apalsson

"I have had no problem finding insurers that will insure my car with a
2" lift kit. This seems to be the maximum height that can easily be
insured though. So far, only one company has declined because of the
lift"

You need to be aware that most 2" lift kits will actually raise the rear of your vehicle by 3" or more (mine was closer to 4") and that this could let them off the hook. Don't know what you can do about it but it's worth noting as you can't trust 'em at all.
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FollowupID: 14495

Reply By: gompy - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 15:04

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 15:04
Hi guys
My insurance is up for renewal, so this discussion is very relevant to me.
I am currently with AAMI but for peace of mind contacted TCIS to get "specialised" 4WD cover. They quoted approx $100 more than AAMI, but after reading the "terms and condition " brocure from Allianz I realised that they are the same as AAMI.
So, what is the deal here?? are we being played for suckers or what!!!
AnswerID: 21924

Follow Up By: flappan - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 15:41

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 15:41
Essentially, the whole reason for being insured by TCIS (and their underwriters) was to be covered by insurance . . . "Anywhere at Anytime". They also used to have a bit of leeway with mods.

Know . . . . if they are getting funny about mods, and they no longer insure "anywhere at anytime" there seems to be no point in going through TCIS.

I would suggest rechecking with them directly about it.

I'm assuming because you have or are looking at TCIS, then you are a member of a 4by club. Hence you NEED insurance exactly for that reason.
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FollowupID: 14347

Reply By: Member - Doug - Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 16:04

Thursday, Jun 05, 2003 at 16:04
Interesting stuff (after 15 posts); I was going to go with TCIS but can't abide paper so stuck with NRMA, did it over the phone in 5 minutes, and got a $300pa bill only for my $30k camper (car is separate, but also with NRMA so I got the 60% no-claims) WITH offroad cover (although in view of others's commenst, I will have to check what they mean about 'offroad') . . .
from:
The Welshmun & The Witch
setting off in 2004
AnswerID: 21927

Follow Up By: Kevin - Friday, Jun 06, 2003 at 11:36

Friday, Jun 06, 2003 at 11:36
I have just purchased a new 4.2 TDI Patrol and did the insurance excercise. I went with NRMA because they insure you Off Road determined by if you are legaly allowed to be there. I made a claim after an incident in Landcruiser park which they covered and was back in my dent free vehicle 7 days after the incident. They also had no problems with the mods, which include 2" OME Suspenion, Front and Rear Diff Locks, ARB Bullbar with 9000lb Winch, IPF Spotlights, UHF Radio and Console, 285/75 Cooper STT, Glind Shower, Tinted Windows, 2nd Battery and in car GPS. The replacement value of $72,000 at rating 2 as we had a car stolen last year for a premium of $864.00. I am a member of the Nissan Patrol Club in QLD and would not even consider TCIS due to being so over priced, which I am sure is due to the brokerage charge!
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FollowupID: 14414

Reply By: Hilly - Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 04:31

Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 04:31
Ari, sorry to change topic but I don't know how to find email addresses. How does your beast handle the 285's? Do you tow at all?

My email is hills1@iinet.net.au to save filling the post with irrelevant material.

Cheers.
AnswerID: 22061

Reply By: Member - Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 15:50

Sunday, Jun 08, 2003 at 15:50
Sorry to be daft but what is TCIS?So many places to go!
So much work to do :0(
AnswerID: 22067

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