Future shock is already here?

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 17:35
ThreadID: 59707 Views:5646 Replies:11 FollowUps:52
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Grey Nomads sitting in the middle of nowhere waiting for the next cheque, station owners who can't afford to move stock to better grassed properties, 4wd owners not being able to afford to use their vehicles. Fewer people travelling the bush, country towns doing it tough, tourism down so those businesses not too flash either. Fishing fleets unable to go out as often as before, etc.. etc. etc..
The rise in fuel prices has hit so suddenly that we haven't had time to work out how we're going to adjust.
Heaven help those who retired and bought a huge motorhome and now can't afford to move it.

However, alternative energy sources are availiable. Just what they are and how effective they will be in the long term remains to be seen.
There's lots of LNG around...could that be the answer in siome form or another I wonder?
Obviously swapping resources to make bio diesel has already been found to be a no no; because the price of food rises.

But I won't be taking my Landcruiser to the dump just yet.
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Reply By: GerryP - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 17:47

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 17:47
A while back there was some talk about growing algae as the amount of bio-fuel from this source was many times that of other sources such as canola or corn (as in the USA where it's causing food shortages). It was apparently easy to grow, harvest and process, but have not not heard much since. Maybe the drought and resultant lack of H2O has an effect, but I would have thought up in the tropics would be OK.

Interesting how these ideas spring up then seem to disappear just as quickly without trace.

Cheers
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:23

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:23
There's a process that uses a by product of coal stations to make bio and cattle feed. Great. But is it economically viable ? Can I get it at the Caltex down the road ? Why not ?
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Reply By: Member - Kim M (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 17:55

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 17:55
Gidday Footy

Seen it all before, whole lot of bloody hysterical carry on. Things go up and things go down. Drought and prosperity. Enjoy the good times, then buckle down when things go bad.

Have to say them brewers are getting their fair share out of a man's pocket!

LOL

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:25

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:25
Fair enough Kim. I would argue that all this should have been sorted back in the 70's. I just hope its just another bump in history...but I'm not so sure...
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred G (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:57

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:57
Good comment Footy. All of a sudden all these experts and pollies are flapping their gums and are telling us that the worlds oil reserve is about to run out, and we have a massive problem on our hands, hence the huge price hike. They didn't know that 12 months ago??? Some d-ckhead professor or pollie, was saying today that petrol would be $8.00 p/l in ten years time. Maybe by then workers wages will also increase by 400 + %. Don't ya just love those we vote in to run our country. ROTFLMAO
I just hope they don't keep moving the goalposts for my pension.
I hope it's just a bump in history!!

Fred.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:31

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:31
Fred, if it's a Govt pension I wouldn't hold my breath. Lots will drop before qualifying for that one. (Oh lookee..we saved 10 billion because they all dropped dead...now about my bonus...)

If its largely self funded, good luck mate. We all know that the market has its ups and downs, but in this case its downs and downs. I couldn't live on the returns that we've had this year...I wionder how those poor buggars who've had to are fareing ?

Happy days ?
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Follow Up By: GU5STS06 - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:38

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:38
Wasnt it Y2K , back 8 years Ago when all of a sudden everyting was supposed to crash over nite unless we all forked out for upgrades on many many things ........, this is the next thing to sap some dollars out of us , i dont believe it at all , more like a Red herring .......oh and FYI , IRAQ just re-opened ist Oil wells last week
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:45

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:45
"i dont believe it at all " and perhaps you're right. But that doesn't alter the price we're paying at the pump :))
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:01

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:01
Things didn't fall over with Y2K because we all forked out Y2K compliant upgrades to prevent any possible thing occurring.
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Follow Up By: GU5STS06 - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:15

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:15
I think K Rudd, Should be back here in our backyard and fixing things, but then again he cant really do anything , thats why we had to have the 20/20 summitt to giver the poor bloke some Ideas, but what did he say pre-election ? "We have a Plan for this Great Nation" im sure not too many liked J Howard in the end , but Mr howard had ideas !

As for Diseal prices ? not much we can do unless we start havesting our own Oil but thats not gonna happen Bcoz Mr B Brown wouldnt have a bar of it ,....... So thanks to some Miss Guided Pollie's with absolutley no business accumen tells me that if he keeps going then before the next Fed Election we will be stumped, and the Coalition will take what another 16 years to repair yet again what a Labour Govt has done, take a look way back when Libs won from Keating/hawke Australia was 97 Billion in Debt , 16 years later and it was 23 Billion in Surplus ...... will take Rudd 1 year to waste that ....... oh and lets not forget KYOTO ..... if Australia Fails to meet its targets , we face as a Nation a National Debt of approx 480Billion Dollars.......and who will pay ? us hardworking tax payers........

I love my Country i love the fellow 4x4 people i meet around the Traps , but i'm sorry to say that Multiculuralism and other Government policies just havent worked because most of them Imports just wanna take and leave or bring the rest here and join the Dole Line at Centerlink......and not contribute.

But alas we are just happy 4x4ers looking forward to that next long stretch of Dust and Greenery and cant really make much difference due to the Boffins in Canberra, who really dont give a toss bcoz at the end of the day they will still get there massive Super, Security Lifelong Health , Life Plane tickets and whatever else they have scammed........along the way...... We have a great Example in NSW its called " Iguanagate "

Cheers and Beerz


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Follow Up By: DOOG - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:42

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:42
You notice that when the Pollies give themselves a pay increase it is a big one.
But when the normal worker goes for 10 cents an hour its a national tragedy.
Doog
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Reply By: Member - Madfisher - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:11

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:11
Similar thing happened in the 70s, although not as bad as at the moment. Had a beautiful 3o2 fairmont that halved in value overnight.
Mate was telling me of a book written 10 years ago that said this would happen and the impact on the economy. Happening much faster though.I have cut my fishing trips back. Stayed home today and caught up with some jobs instead of going fishing. To cold anyway.
Cheers Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:26

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:26
Pretty scary stuff. What about all those long range tanks, could anyone afford to actually "fill her up" ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:34

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:34
Filled my 150litre long range tank as well as the 75litre main tank...................... $689..... wasn't quite empty.......


Still. I've got a business. I can claw back the GST and make it tax deductable.

They reallys should make the fuel used to go to and from work a tax deduction. It is a cost of employment after all.
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Follow Up By: Redeye - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:41

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:41
Filled the Nissan today.

It doubled the value of the vehicle. Might trade it in.

Redeye
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Follow Up By: Louie the fly - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:16

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:16
Royce, at that rate, you're paying over $3.00 a litre. My V8 wagon now costs Over $120 to fill for just under 600 km. A trip to Adelaide & back tonight will cost us about $20.
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Follow Up By: Member - Madfisher - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:47

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:47
SCARY, to right Footy, $200.00 to fill the Jack and the boat, and our wages have gone up a pittance.
Cheers Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:51

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:51
Madfisher, yes. But as Brian said further down the page
"when has it ever been different?" :((
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 00:11

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 00:11
Ha! My fingers must have hit the wrong keys.... my fill was $236...not sure how I typed those crazy figures.... still, may pay that in the future.
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Reply By: Michael A (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:45

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:45
I reckon go as hard as possible. Travel in the outback now while you can afford too, that is our philosophy. Fuel will always rise so travel as much as possible as soon as possible.

Seize the day, 98% of the population don't, so make your travel time count !!!. No matter how big or little it is....just get out there !.

Michael A
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:01

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:01
That is of course assuming that you can currently afford to :)
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Follow Up By: Michael A (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:17

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:17
Agree Footloose..it is bloody expensive. I say seize the day and see as much of the country s you can afford. Better than seeing nothing !

In 1999 I remember the most expensive fule in OZ being 62.5c per half litre for unleaded at Rabbit Flat..oh how the world has changed. I even drive Diesel Toyota now ! Never thought that would happen.

The maiden voyage for the Troopy starts at the end of this week. I blame Wayne (NSW) for that, my girlfriend parked his Troopy at the CSR Well 23 Fuel Dump in June 2005 and since then she was happy to move from the Patrol to the Troopy.

It is all an adventure !!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:24

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:24
Crikey, not even my wife determines which vehicle I drive. LOL
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Reply By: Brian Purdue - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:57

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:57
Get over it. If you want to see the best country in the world look at this!
Take a joyride back to 1991: There's no doubt Australia’s changed since the last time inflation was this high. But how did the cost of living compare to back then? Interest rates were higher, and we were earning less than half of what we take home today. According to ABS data, total full-time weekly earnings in May 1991 stood at $595.60. In November 2007 it was $1162.20.
But as they say, it’s all relative -- the average retail price of household goods looks dramatically different to some of the numbers we’re used to seeing in the supermarket aisles today.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, a pot of full-strength beer (285ml) in a pub cost between $1.47 in Sydney and Hobart ranging to $1.99 in Darwin. A case of full-strength beer averaged around $20. Today it is nearly double that.
The average price of a kilo of spuds was around 75 cents. Today a kilo of loose potatoes at Coles goes for $3.76.
A loaf of sliced white bread averaged at about $1.44. Today the average loaf of white bread costs around the $4 mark. A litre of milk bought from the supermarket would set you back around 90c a litre in 1991. You can now expect to pay around $2.30.
A dozen eggs went for around $2. Today you can expect to pay anywhere from about $5 for a dozen caged eggs, and more for a dozen free-range organic ones.
The difference is startling at the petrol pump. Rising world oil prices have pushed today’s petrol prices to around $1.50. In 1991, super petrol, traditionally pricier than unleaded, went for around 70 cents a litre.
A look at the financials
In May 1991, the Australian dollar would get you US76.09 cents. Nowadays it hovers around US91-93 cents, nearing parity.
Interest rates were higher. The Reserve Bank official cash rate was 11.5 per cent in April 1991, but had dropped to 8.5 per cent by December of that year. The official cash rate now sits at 7.25 per cent.
Standard variable home loan rates were 14.5 per cent in April 1991 dropping to 12 per cent by that December. Standard variable rates are now 9.35 per cent.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:08

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:08
All very well and good. HOWEVER, in 1991 the cost of utilities were lower, few people today pay the official interest rate on their mortgage. Most of the population hadn't seen their future income disappear by 25% on the market. Some present taxes didn't even exist. House prices were low enough so that your kids could dream of owning their own home.

I suspect that the great divide in Australia ie poor and relatively well off, will become more transparent. And that can't be a good thing for law and order for a start.
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Follow Up By: Hairs (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:14

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:14
Hi Brian,
All valid points, each one of them.
But people are hurting, and through now fault of their own. I guess that's the bit that hurts the most. Just when you get your S@#$ sorted out and you think ' I'm doing alright' something comes along and gives you a great big kick up the bum.
I know life was not meant to be easy, But It also wasn't meant to be this difficult for some.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred G (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:15

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:15
Footy, just when my poor old grey matter was trying to post a response to Brian, you said it for me...Ta mate
Fred.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:21

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:21
Fred, I think the previous poster said it better than I.
I guess it depends on whether you're the one being ripped off or the one doing the ripping off. My personal view is that Australia has been the happy hunting ground for too many shady characters and corporations in the past. As my customer today said, "we've been raped far too often." Strong words I know but...I said hey yes but we don't pay as much in taxes as many countries etc... ...and he hit the roof. Reckoned that if that was the case then how come we have so many expats ?
I have to admit that much of what he said made sense.
Oh well, it's still the best country in the world....for some :))
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Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:44

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:44
You are all right. All of you. But when have things been different? Some take care of themselves, their family and their money. Some are neglectful.
If you choose to travel when you are unable to afford it you will be caught.
Regretably, at 76 years of age, and, due to failing health, I am unable to camp out. Sold the Range Rover and now drive a car instead.
But I believe that the situation is not as bad as some say it to be. Drive out to Perth airport some time and see if you can find a parking spot!
There will be, forever, the haves and the have nots! It is all relevant.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:48

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:48
Brian, well spoken.
In the stage show "JC Superstar" I believe that one line says , "the poor will always be with us".
It's sort of comforting to know that I'll always be around :)))
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 09:33

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 09:33
Brian, you have made some good points but I've always had a problem with the idea of the 'average income'. A simple example to illustrate: 99 people earn $100 and 1 person earns $1,000,000. The average wage is therefore $10,099. This means that 99% of the population earns much less than the average wage

I am only guessing but I think there are more and more people on ridiculously huge salaries which drag the 'average' up. Yet probably more than 50% of people are on award wages (or close to it) therefore the MAJORITY of people earn less than the 'average income' and a minority earn much more. Probably only a small percentage actually earn close to the average figure. So the term 'average income' is is a bit meaningless unless you are a politician using statistics trying to validate government decisions....like the way they fudge employment figures by including people who only work a couple of hours a week...

regards

Brian
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Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 17:37

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 17:37
I am not a politician or a public servant. I have no idea what the basis for "Average" is. I just know what is quoted.
Like the average price of fuel is say $1.50 based on $1.25 in the capital cities and $2.50 at Wiluna. Capital cities sell more fuel and Wiluna and Capricorn Roadhouse sell much less.
I just know that when I had to retire I paid my staff somewhere around $120 a week - and was able to get very good people at that wage. My son in the same business strugges to find competant workers at $700 a week.
I understand when WA was first settled 30 pounds a year was a very good wage.
So really it isall relevant.
By the way, I was running a Range Rover and camper on just under $20,000 a year until March this year.
I never stopped in the Wentworth Hotel either!!!!
I camped in the bush!
Have a good week
regards
Brian
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Reply By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:42

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:42
Frankly I find the whole thing quite depressing. Not so much for me as for many many others. I'll still be able to drive to the shops once a week, they aren't that far for us. But if I lived somewhere remote I couldn't.
Yesterday I was asked if I minded picking something up that I had bought, from Brisbane. Yes I mind. It's around 150K round trip.
I would have happily have done so in the past but not any more.
It looks like the only time I'll be able to see my kids is on a teleconference on the net.
And I rekkkon that compared to many I'm relatively well off.
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Follow Up By: Hairs (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:57

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 19:57
I know exactly what you mean Footy.
I had an argument with a bloke who lives in Sydney about public transport. I was telling him how our public transport is doing a ring around to see who is going to town or who wants something picked up from town. We've got three kids under ten, and they are just now starting to get involved in sport.
Can't remember the last time we said 'bugger it a ripper of a day lets go for a drive'.
Every trip, no matter what for has to be justified.

So the Minister for War & Finance tells me. ;-))
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Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:05

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:05
Footloose, I often read your postings and agree with what you say. You are most erudite in your postings.
It only costs more to travel whilst the motor is running. It still costs the same to eat and drink.
There is no reason the keep moving. In the short time I was travelling in WA I found a lot of "aged nomads" who only moved on or about Pension days.
I really envy them but it shows it can be done. I only stopped in caravan parks to shower and do my laundry but apart from that, like many nomads, I camped in the bush.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:42

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:42
Brian, a quick question if I may ?
You don't happen to be a retired farmer from Yass do you?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:49

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:49
Sorry to mention it, but I don't think we have seen the worst of it as yet.
Lots of people spent their hard won from week to week for many years with the view that their personal net worth was still increasing because of rising property values.
Most will start to realise that its not only the stock market going through a downer and once the perception of diminished net worth becomes apparent spending patterns will continue to change accordingly. Just look at the States to see the effect.

This country is heading for some very hard times and Mr Rudd is sticking nails in the coffin as fast as he can.
I honestly don't think he is in touch with reality as he is more intent on removing nuclear weapons from the world and being seen rubbing shoulders overseas with the big boys whilst the house burns down.

Just think about the prospect of carbon trading and the effect on the remaining Australian manufacturing if Rudd pushes us into it with out China and India signing up.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:56

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:56
John, the pollies have always been keen to "punch above their weight" on the world stage, ever since the Treaty of Versailles.
Carbon Trading etc will make no difference to the world's climate. AFAIK Australia only emits around 1.5% of the world's pollutants. Without similar reductions and schemes from the USA, China and India, what's the point ?
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Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:58

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 20:58
No Footloose. I was a farm labouer in the late 1940's and still have friends with some farimg properties.
I retired from the workforce in 1987 with a health problem but still enjoy life as much as I can.
Kind regards
Brian
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:02

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:02
Brian my apologies, I wasn't trying to pry. I knew a chap around your age who went west in an old Rangie he'd done up. I thought we might have known each other...sorry mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:08

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:08
Thats my point Footy, 1.5% compared to what the big boys are supposedly spewing forth and Rudd will tax our remaining manufacturing out of this country to the likes of China and India because he thinks its a good idea to "lead the world" in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
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Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:25

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:25
No problems Footloose. I have a fairly thick hide.
I enjoy your contributions and, hopefully, will continue to do so.
I love this country and have not seen as much of it as I would have liked to. That is why I read these forums.
As the man said: "carpe diem" - live the day - more correctly "reap the day".
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:39

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:39
Brian, I appear to have have wandered off course a bit, my original intention was to elicit some ideas as to future directions in energy supplies, especially for travellers.
But I seem to have stoked the campfire well tonight :))
There have been some interesting contributions, not all of which I've fully agreed with but I'd be a "Ruddite" if I tried, I guess. Each one is valuable, if only to report what I've thought for some time...that despite us having "never been so well off", middle Australia is either hurting or is going to be very shortly.
What was the old saying about misery loving company ? LOL
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Follow Up By: Hairs (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:52

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:52
Hey Footy,
A good mate thinks he knows why we sit here having a few ales and a whinge.
He blames the Booze bus for it.
Cause we can't go to the pub and have a few beers and whine about the sad state of affairs, take the mickey out of each other and then drive home.
I think he might have a point.

Any way, I'll be off now, until next time.
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Reply By: troopyman - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:08

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:08
At $8 per litre it would cost $40 to fill a 5 litre mower can LOL .
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Follow Up By: Hairs (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:26

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:26
Geez,
Thanks, I've got 2 acres to mow. The mower has a 5litre tank.
Forgot about putting fuel in that bugger, haven't had to use it for the past 6 weeks.
I guess it ain't going to be cheap to do anything.

And John, the only reason Rudd thinks its good is because he is bowing to his Chinese overlords. When was the last time a An Australian Prime Minister spoke in the native tongue of a visiting head of state on our soil to greet them?
There is more to him. Hmm
I can't put my finger on it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:30

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 21:30
I've got the same problem...I wish someone would find oil under my property :)
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Follow Up By: GU5STS06 - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 22:03

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 22:03
I think K Rudd, Should be back here in our backyard and fixing things, but then again he cant really do anything , thats why we had to have the 20/20 summitt to giver the poor bloke some Ideas, but what did he say pre-election ? "We have a Plan for this Great Nation" im sure not too many liked J Howard in the end , but Mr howard had ideas !

As for Diseal prices ? not much we can do unless we start havesting our own Oil but thats not gonna happen Bcoz Mr B Brown wouldnt have a bar of it ,....... So thanks to some Miss Guided Pollie's with absolutley no business accumen tells me that if he keeps going then before the next Fed Election we will be stumped, and the Coalition will take what another 16 years to repair yet again what a Labour Govt has done, take a look way back when Libs won from Keating/hawke Australia was 97 Billion in Debt , 16 years later and it was 23 Billion in Surplus ...... will take Rudd 1 year to waste that ....... oh and lets not forget KYOTO ..... if Australia Fails to meet its targets , we face as a Nation a National Debt of approx 480Billion Dollars.......and who will pay ? us hardworking tax payers........

I love my Country i love the fellow 4x4 people i meet around the Traps , but i'm sorry to say that Multiculuralism and other Government policies just havent worked because most of them Imports just wanna take and leave or bring the rest here and join the Dole Line at Centerlink......and not contribute.

But alas we are just happy 4x4ers looking forward to that next long stretch of Dust and Greenery and cant really make much difference due to the Boffins in Canberra, who really dont give a toss bcoz at the end of the day they will still get there massive Super, Security Lifelong Health , Life Plane tickets and whatever else they have scammed........along the way...... We have a great Example in NSW its called " Iguanagate "

Cheers and Beerz
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Reply By: Member - John G- Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 18:07

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 18:07
G'day Footloose, good thread.

It's not easy to make an informed decision.

We are self-funded retirees. Super capital has 'lost' approx 12% since Jan 08; no CPI adjustment and no inflation adjustment to come, and probably a minimum of 2 yrs before returns climb back into the black, and then another 2 yrs before the loss is recovered - and that's being optimistic.

We can certainly change the travelling habits by staying closer to home, and staying longer in places, but I'm tipping fewer retirees will venture into the 4WD and caravan / campertrailer market, and the value of our rigs will drop significantly as another respondent has noted in relation to the 70s scene. That changes the overall scene significantly

As good as the travelling / camping lifestyle is, it does not come cheaply, and we are having to try to look seriously at our medium to long term financial situation. We can't pretend things will return to whatever normal was.

Cheers
John

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Follow Up By: Member - Madfisher - Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 20:39

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 20:39
John unfortunaltly the market slump in 4wds is already happening. When I brought the Jack 18 months ago i really wanted a prado, but good ones where very scarce and overpriced. Had a look on carsales the other day and was shocked to see doz of prados for sale. Nl pajs have dropped 50% in value in 12 months. Heard of a very good 01 jack with low ks, bull bar going for $9000.00.
Cheers Pete
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FollowupID: 581296

Follow Up By: Angler - Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 21:28

Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 at 21:28
John,

We are also self funded and as the future looks pretty grim I have begun working a few days a week to try and cover costs a bit. I find it takes five hours of work to pay about the weeks fuel bill. As you say the super is down quite dramatically and will take some years to recover and yet the average worker is still trying for huge wage increases. They should stop and have a think about how much they will need in the future and realise every increase in wages increases the cost of living. When you are self funding there is no wage increase and when the time comes they will realise increased wages may have just made self funded retirement a little harder to reach.

Question to the CEO's of our country, how much is enough???
Is $100,000 or more a week sufficient to retire?


Pooley
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FollowupID: 581305

Reply By: Best Off Road - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:56

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:56
My God, how depressing. All doom and gloom.

The economy is booming, unemployment is low, we all just got a tax cut.

Things are cheap to buy eg 26" Colour TV in 1975 $860 (a month's wages), 2008 $200 (a days wages).

You're all looking at this on a PC that cost $6000 in 1986, now can be had for $400.

Get off the grass. Times are great. I spent last weekend with my 96 yo Nanna and she was telling me that she took in house guests over the entire summer of 1953 to save enough money to buy a 12 inch B&W TV (in England).

Back then Nanna and Grandad couldn't even afford to buy a car, let alone worry about the cost of fuel.

Life is great in 2008.

Jim.



AnswerID: 315201

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:28

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:28
Hate to burst your bubble but let's take a closer look at some of this life is great in 08 business.
The economy is booming.
Stock market has lost 25% of it's value. More houses for sale than at any other time in the past 5 years, many due to mortgage stress.
Employment is booming in certain sectors, wonderful if you work in a mine or are a plumber. Asl those in part time employment what's booming..
Average full time wage is around $550 pw, which is around twice what your fridge mech now charges PER HOUR.
Tax cuts...if the tax threshold had been indexed then middle income earners would be paying far less tax than the "give it to em and then stick it to em" Govt taxation policies.
There was no GST in 1986.
The cost of utilities is far higher than at any other tme, and due to sky-rocket with the cost of fuel and carbon trading.
Some things are cheap to buy...there's a lot of cheap Chinese junk around, but sadly you can't eat it. Grocery prices are up by around 30% over the past two years.
In 1986 we bought cheap Apple computers and made do. There was no internet or word processors.
Your Nanna could easily get by with PUBLIC TRANSPORT in the UK...many people there still can. For many people in Australia a car is an absolute necessity, not an option.
Gotta love a succession of Govts long term planning !
One thing that higher fuel prices could do is to kill the 4wd industry.
This isn't something that you can bluff your way through by having "business confidence".
But no not all doom and gloom. In the long term there will be opportunities. But major societal and structural reforms will have to be undertaken before that can happen.

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FollowupID: 581352

Follow Up By: AdlelaideGeorge - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:57

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:57
IRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You're right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Happy days

George
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FollowupID: 581354

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:20

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:20
Footy,

You'll always be a "glass half empty" man, and I'll always see the glass as half full. Neither one is right or wrong. Different outlooks on life and that is what helps achieve balance.

Regards,

Jim.


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FollowupID: 581374

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:29

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:29
Jim, life would be so boring if we didn't have different opinions.
Sadly in this case I rekkon the glass is far emptier than full :)))
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FollowupID: 581375

Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 23:30

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 at 23:30
Hi Jim,

I just love the way all of the money being discussed & spent to invest in things like public transport is being spent in cities.

What's the plan for people who live in the country?

I drove back from Dartmouth via the Omeo Hwy last week.

The government in Vic is closing a school in a little place called Mitta. The kid from Dartmouth already have a 20km trip to school. If the school closes it will be 30km.

A 60km round trip that would cost about $12-15 per day for the average vehicle in the area.

I was pondering this further when I came through Glen Wills and past the famous Blue Duck Inn at Anglers Rest. It's 56km from Glen Wills to Omeo, and 106km to Tallangatta. Those are the two closest centres - neither of which are particularly large.

On roads which require a 4wd Patrols & Cruisers are common. They are windy & narrow so consumption of 15-18ltrs/100km is common too. Diesel is $2 a litre.

That's $42 a round trip to Omeo or $72 a round trip to Tallangatta. These people produce the beef we eat.

It's not going to be long before living in these places will be unsustainable. I certainly wouldn't be paying the asking price for the Blue Duck Inn at the moment. I don't think it will be much of a tourist destination for much longer.

As for the off road camper.... well you can't tow it behind a Prius.

Unless they discover some radical new power plant for larger vehicles soon we're buggered. I don't know that the oil situation is as bad as the media would have us believe, but we'll never know, we'll just pay whatever the hype and spin pushes the price to.

But the tourism industry will pay the price, and rural areas will just feel a bit more pain.

But those in the city might get a couple of extra train lines, and the government will subsidise Toyota to produce vehicles that you can plug into the wall and charge with power produced by burning coal....

With logic like that we are truly screwed.

Dave
AnswerID: 315347

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 07:00

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 07:00
Hi Dave, totally agree. Unless we can come up with some form of alternative and cost effective fuels, the future of the country areas appear somewhat tenuous to say the least.
Which is what this post was originally about :)))
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FollowupID: 581510

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:01

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:01
Hi Footy

I know we don't always see eye to eye on fuel matters, however I think one of the biggest issues in the future won't just be the price of fuel, but continuity and security of supply.

We take it for granted that when we need it, assuming we can pay, we just turn up and purchase whatever quantity we want. This may not always be the case in the future.

Another issue we face as a group of 4WD enthusiasts will be the loss of outback tourism services; less travellers will likely see a reduction in committment to the industry by those supplying services.

Having read through most of the posts here many acknowledge that Australia is indeed a lucky country, however the redistribution of the mining wealth is limited mostly to those directly involved.

Maybe this will lead to more employment opportunities for those willing to relocate, however in the meantime household budgets are no doubt hurting and are being readjusted to take account of rising fuel, food, and housing costs.

Luxuries which are at the margin will be affected the most and I suspect 4WD and travel will no doubt suffer as a consequence.

You touched on alternative fuel and clearly this will need to be the direction we start heading, but it is no short term panacea. Many point to Brazil and how they have come to use ethanol successfully. However, it wasn't without a lot of problems and drama over a number of decades before they have got to the point they are at today. Mind you I don't see crop substituition for fuel as being desireable because of the consequences on food prices and impact on third world nations.

All food for thought......

AnswerID: 315404

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:11

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:11
Hi Landy. You don't see eye to eye with me from time to time..true, BUt you do argue from knowledge and facts and figures, and logically. I can't be right about everything (anything?:), and appreciate a good rhobust discussion without the personal sniping so common from another forum person.
I appreciate your input as usual.
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FollowupID: 581532

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:58

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:58
Hi Footy...I like your style.......even if we can't agree who can't agree!

It will be interesting to see reports on how outback services change over the months ahead, especially as we are in the peak outback touring season.

Mind you when I think about the loss of services in outback centres, Innamincka and the Corner Country spring to mind as an area that may well see an increase in services as the oil exploration industry ramps up activity in the region. There is evidence of this already. I'm sure there will be other regions that are benefiting from increase mining and oil company involvement. Mind you that will also come at a cost....

Other areas such as the Kimberlies and Cape York, given the large distance from most Australian centres, may see a reduction in visitors and services.

I also suspect that the caravan and camping trailer industry will suffer and this may lead to a reduction in suppliers and see some of the marginal manufacturers pull out or amalgamate.

There is no doubt that second hand vehicle prices are suffering and this is often a hidden cost that is overlooked....

But back on the alternative fuels, LPG/CNG are viable, but from a 4WD touring perspective we need to see a committment to remote areas providing refuelling capacity before it becomes worthwhile to upgrade vehicles. Unless your travel is mostly in the more populated outback regions where availability is assured.


Cheers







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FollowupID: 581535

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 13:13

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 13:13
This is going to be a first ! Spot on, I couldn't agree with you more.
It's a pity that I don't know more about alt fuels that could possibly be used in 4wds, but my customer from Qatar tells me that some are already using some form of diesel/LNG mix there just to highlight the technology. Apparently they realize that their oil reserves won't last forever.
The downside is that we might need different engines....as long as the engines and fuel is cheap enough to keep us mobile then our future might not be as grim as we think.
Sadly we need to start soon...very soon. And our Govts are not noted for moving terribly quickly except when they see something in it for themselves :((
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FollowupID: 581540

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 18:24

Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 at 18:24
Hi Footy

Great Thread mate, so far 1553 have viewed it, I believe you are
right about the Grey Nomad situation, we also are double checking
our Retirement plans, mainly the length of time away, on various trips,
I have decided to do the semi retirement thing, take a Month off
every Quarter, and still keep the business going, but reduce the
work load, we will sub a bit out, and see how it goes, also I will be
taking a wide berth around the Share Market, I will be taking the
high 8's and 9 percents from the Banks.

Cheers
Daza
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FollowupID: 581598

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