What is remote and dangerous ?

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:25
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Recently I made a rather rash statement on this forum where I said the Simpson desert is not remote enough to be dangerous.
The statement was in reply to a chap looking to hook up with other travellers because his travelling partner had pulled out.
I said "go on your own, its not remote enough to be dangerous".
The context of this reply was meant to mean that you are not alone out there and there would be little chance of perishing in the event of a breakdown or becoming stranded.
I've been there several times in season and there are always other travellers on the tracks.Its not Parramatta Rd admittedly,but I couldn't see you going more than a day or two at the most before help arrived.Is that remote and dangerous?
I would have thought a compass bearing into the great sandy or Victoria deserts with little or no chance of a vehicle appearing would be remote and dangerous, perhaps the Anne Beadell or Canning trips fit the bill as well, but the French Line in season?????
Regards
Brian.
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Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:46

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:46
Brian I was out there 2 years ago and was on the french line and did not see a soul for 3 days . Fair enough you say its not remote or dangerous but if something did happen ie serios injury or a rolled truck I would like to be with someone . You say that some one would come but what if they didnt for three days or maybe only two . I understand what you are saying but it could give people the wrong idea what the desert is all about relying on some one else who is passing by to get you out of trouble.
All the best
Eric
www.capeyorkconnections.com.au
4wd Tag Along AdventuresCape York Connections
AnswerID: 26948

Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:55

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:55
Brian I just thought of some thing else what if you wandered of the main track and camped behind a dune and you had a problem ie hurt and couldnt get back to the main track I know I am thinking of worst case but it could happen
All the best
EricCape York Connections
AnswerID: 26951

Reply By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:57

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 15:57
I agree wholeheartedly with Eric. But just because you are in company doesn't mean that you necessarily have the right sort of help. Came across a motorcycle accident last time I was on the Cape - young fella had broken both collar bones and his right wrist. His mates - 10 others on motorbikes and 2 in the (yes the one) back up vehicle a battered old FJ40 - didn't have a clue. Not only didn't they have so much as a panadol (in fact no first aid box at all) their answer was to truck him back to Weipa in the 40 even though they were north of Fruit Bat Falls. Thankfully we arrived on the scene with some serious painkillers and someone else arrived with a satphone - as I understand it he was eventually medivaced to TI by air.
The moral of this story is that number in company can mean nothing if there is no common sense exercised in planning and packing.
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Reply By: Mixo - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:07

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:07
When it rains on one side of the Simpson (it often does) everyone stops crossing it from either direction.
If you were half way across and had an incident, illness or a breakdown AND you found that nobody was in the region due to the said rain, how would you feel ? It might be a busy area, but that is never constant. People do go there solo, but they take a higher risk than the groups do. A solo vehicle, solo VKS737 member up there this year had a dual battery failure - was lucky to get out with his HF comms. If I remember rightly, nobody came by for a couple of days and he was more than "concerned"..... rationing consumables and all. Another member detoured quite a ways to jump start him. Couple that with some rain in the wrong place, people can't get out there at all and ...... you wouldn't want to be crook.
AnswerID: 26956

Reply By: haze - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:22

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:22
G'day Brian. also totally agree with t'other replies. Some years ago set off to see the "outback"-- never really found it, was always just a bit "further out"!! These days we(wife & I) work in the W.Qld. opal fields, not quite the outback but it can be 2-5 days between seeing other miners and it is a 400km. round trip every 2/3 weeks for shopping. Like everything, danger is where you find it (or if your karma is outa wak) it finds you. So in our case we carry a serious first aid kit, have uhf radio, satphone with direct dial to RFDS, and GPS. A good tool kit and spares are always handy. For me, heading solo across any desert region would not deter; preparation, communication, fuel,water,the right gear for the job would expect to come out the other end no probs. But always with the acceptance there can be danger. Come to think of it I nearly got cleaned up in town by an old fellow on a "gopher" last week !!
cheers, haze
AnswerID: 26958

Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:44

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 17:44
Anywhere can be dangerous if people don't know what there doing.

Example :

A few years back a wheelchair bound tourist got his 2wd sedan bogged in sand near Darwin in summer by himself.
He was only 100 meters from the Hyway behind a sand hill.

I cant remember how they found him but he was lucky as he wouldn't of lasted a day or two.
AnswerID: 26965

Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 18:02

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 18:02
B.P
what is remote & dangerous
its anywhere that help takes longer than it takes you to die,so it is relitive to the problem you incur,verses the safe solution to the problem
eg.a heart attack in a hospital not to remote or dangerous
heart attack 20 min from ambulance definatly remote & dangerous
eg.flat tyre middle of simpson mild weather plenty of water food ect probably not to remote & dangerous
flat tyre in the middle of the simpson 45 in the water bag no water 0r food deadly remote & dangerous
Regarsd Bruce
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Follow Up By: Mick - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 22:57

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 22:57
Wherever did you get that definition of remote? Such rubbish said with such conviction!!
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Follow Up By: BurnieM - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:52

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:52
Actually it is a pretty good definition.

In a marine environment you can only call a MAYDAY if you are in 'grave and imminent danger'. The definition of imminent depends on were you are relative to the resources you require for assistance; it may be 2 minutes or 2 days. Note that this is a legal requirement and this definition has been tested in court.

In any case; be trained, be equipped and duplicate (vehicles, equipment and skills).
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Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 11:35

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 11:35
Mike
you are right about part of what you have said it is said with conviction based on experance,you are quick to slam it as rubbish yet you do not HAVE THE BALLS to put up a theory of your own & have it test in the public domain WHY IS THAT??????? I never expect anybody to agree with what i say but if you cant put forward your aguements as to why my definition is rubbish or a version that is more acurate maybe you are just a litte remote your self
Regards Bruce
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Follow Up By: Mick - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 23:30

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 23:30
You need some spelling lessons too.
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Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 14:51

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 14:51
Prick
get a life
sorry cant spell that should have been mick then again
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris (Wollongong) - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 19:06

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 19:06
Agree 100% with Bruce.

Still waiting for your contribution to the topic Mick. Lets see what wonderful words of advice you have for us all!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Fred - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 20:41

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 20:41
Ever heard of capital letters, apostrophes and full stops?
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Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 21:21

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 21:21
Actualy Fred
I failed english due to the fact that i suffer from cronic dislexia,so i stuggle badly when it comes to both spelling , english & typing hence some times my responses do not read that well . if it offends your sencabilties sorry
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Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 21:21

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 21:21
Actualy Fred
I failed english due to the fact that i suffer from cronic dislexia,so i stuggle badly when it comes to both spelling , english & typing hence some times my responses do not read that well . if it offends your sencabilties sorry
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Follow Up By: Mick - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 22:11

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 22:11
Try using word and the spell check first. Chronic dyslexia is a serious disability but there are many aids which can be of benefit to people with disabilities such as yours. It certainly doesn't offend me or my sensibilities.You can cut and paste a document that has been spell checked from Word into this forum. Hope this is of some help.
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Follow Up By: Mick - Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 22:59

Friday, Aug 08, 2003 at 22:59
And Fred ... show some compassion for the disabled in future!
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Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Saturday, Aug 09, 2003 at 16:42

Saturday, Aug 09, 2003 at 16:42
who said anything about being disabled, dislexia hasnt stoped me doing or achieving anything & we are still waiting for your version of remote mick????
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Follow Up By: Mick - Saturday, Aug 09, 2003 at 21:08

Saturday, Aug 09, 2003 at 21:08
Chronic dyslexia is quite a severe disability and of course it is not a reason for not achieving! There have been many high achievers who have risen above their disabilities. Have you heard of Helen Keller?
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Reply By: Member - Willem- Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 18:44

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 18:44
I think that if you have to walk more than 30km to get help then that can be classed as remote.

The essence of bush travel is to be prepared. Most of my travels are solo trips. I am well prepared, careful and don't take any unnecessary risks.

I have crossed the Simpson North/South and I have been to Helena Spring which lies 90km east of Well 41 off the Canning Stock Route. Now those trips were really remote.

Cheers, Willem
Never a dull moment
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Bob - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:01
Well prepared in an old Nissan? Somewhat of a contradiction I think .... Good luck Willem
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Follow Up By: Member - Willem- Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 14:14

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 14:14
Hi Bob,

You must remember to take your finger off the submit button and your other hand off your............

Hey, leave my Nissan out of it.

Don't be jealous because you don't have the nouse. Not all people are equal. You still have to appreciate that........and, get a life !

And yes this, is meant to offend. I am getting sick and tired of negative comments on this forum aimed at what I post.

Cheers, Willem
Never a dull moment
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 20:18

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 20:18
I think you have been told Bob!
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Follow Up By: Bob - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 23:32

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 23:32
Getting sick of negative comments? Maybe there's a message for you about your posts!
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Follow Up By: ThePublican - Sunday, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:53

Sunday, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:53
Remote can be anywhere one is alone and in need of help/asistance,eg; saturday night on the town and broke 20klm from home yet surrounded by people....happens every day/week/month/ year/ in our cities,,,true remoteness.
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Reply By: sean - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 20:14

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 20:14
Carry an EPIRB - everywhere.

Sean
AnswerID: 26981

Follow Up By: Slammin - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:59

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 23:59
good on ya Sean I was waiting for someone to point out the most important emergency comms device of all. Not everywhere can get satphone service, the battery won't last forever and it's a worse case for HF if the vehicle is rolled battery flat etc. etc.
EPIRB
EPIRB
EPIRB
And they are cheap as
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Reply By: Mark - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 21:38

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 21:38
We are also planning to cross the Simpson soon & will have the comfort that we will have at least 3 vehicles & all on board have recently undergone a remote area first aid course. While I would agree that it is more than likely that someone would come by sooner or later with the growing number that are crossing the Simpson these days, I would sooner put my faith in the immediate people around me after being pulled from a rolled vehicle as an example. Without early first aid your chances of survival can be reduced by 65% in other words early accessment & early cpr carried out by a first aider has been shown to increase chances of survival by 65%. Communication with the outside world is also as important, as First Aid is exactly that and many casualtys are going to require professional help sooner than later. For those of you serious about maximising your allotted time on the planet I would recommend the ST Johns remote area course it runs over 2 Saturdays & a Sunday & covers pretty much all you'll need to know to apply first aid while out bush.
AnswerID: 26987

Follow Up By: Member - Bernie. (Vic) - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 01:38

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 01:38
Well said Mark
Personally I think 1st Aid should be taught from kindergarten,
A 1st Aid course is probably the best investment one can make,
especially if going off road, and its no good saying someone else is qualified because they may be the injured party.

just my 2 cents worth

Cheers
Prado TD Auto
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FollowupID: 18533

Reply By: Member - Melissa - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 17:00

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 17:00
BP,

I read your comments the first time and I understood what it was you were trying to say. However, your comment probably should have been qualified to make it clearer for those who haven't done much, if any, remote area travel.

I agree with everyone's comments above, all very valid points. Having said that, my husband and I would do a solo crossing of the Simpson if we had too. Having travelled with others a few times now, sometimes successfully, other times we couldn't wait to wave goodbye. I'd rather go it alone than a tag along or hook up with others just for safety.

Few things we would do including 1) checking in with local authorities at both ends so if we don't arrive when due, there is someone to raise the alarm. 2) Communications...HF, satphone, RFDS radio etc 3) well stocked first aid kit and basic first aid knowledge and 4) only go during busiest months and stick with most popular routes.

Having said all of that, we would not travel solo in a remote, desert enviroment with our 2 yr old. Reason being, if we had an accident and both hubby and I were incapacitated, what happens to him??? An older child well versed in survival techniques might have some hope but a young child no! It's one thing for two well-informed adults aware of the risks to make a decision to travel alone, its entirely another to drag a child along.

Just my thoughts...

:o) Melissa
AnswerID: 27059

Reply By: B.P. - Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 19:46

Thursday, Aug 07, 2003 at 19:46
Gday all.
Very interesting discussion again.Lots of well thought out points.
Objective achieved in getting a chat going on the subject and hopefully lots more who just read it all.
I think some clear winners in the debate were the need for reliable communications and solid first aid knollege. They are indeed essential requirements . Dont forget a good first aid kit.
One other I feel necessary to mention, is good mechanical skills and a toolbox with the right spanners to do job.
Willem had a good reply saying that basicly your favorite fishing or camping spot is remote if you have to walk or crawl home.
So to sum up ,it was irresponsible of me to say to someone I dont know ,to just "go on your own".Sorry Bill?, I was just assuming you wern't A goose.
At least after this,some people who read this and find they're
not up to scratch will realise whats requird of them to undertake such a trip, esspecially if their planning to do it solo.
Cheers all
Brian.
AnswerID: 27079

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