Stockton Beach-NPWS and rules enforcement??????????

Submitted: Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 21:31

ThreadID: 64623 Views:11679 Replies:11 FollowUps:14

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Ozboc

Just returned from a great day on stockton beach ( Anna bay end) Was such a fantastic day that everyone with a 4x4 was there , and anyone that wasn't there ... where were you ??

enough of the pleasantries....

NPWS was out in force and i am well for it... BUT i have observed a few things that worry me.... rule enforcement.

i had seen NPWS checking all the people doing the right things, checking passes and so forth - fair enough .....

Me and my partner seen NPWS watch a line of 4x4's FLY past ( was bloody obvious there we doing well in excess of 40 KMh) weaving in and out of beach goers INC kids and coming within a few meters and NOT slowing down at all -- what did they do ? Just stopped and watched them drive past ( presuming they watched) did not go after them NOR try to stop them or slow them down - they just let them fly past.... Maybe they radioed ahead? , would love to hear from NPWS on this forum as i know they frequent this site

Trail bike riders on unregistered bikes flying up and down the sand at what i estimate 80 KMH+ on there back wheels and once again in and out of people - back and forwards - so people had enough and actually tried to throw stuff at some of these idiots that didnt give a bleep that kids were around. I almost got cleaned up and had to run to stop the kids going onto the path of speeding unregistered bike that was not stopping for nothing...

Whats it going to take ? a fatality of a child? i sure as hell hope its not my kids that have to prove a point. Do i need to start to take video myself and take to police?

what is the role of NPWS on stockton beach? - to pick on the people that are trying to do the right thing issue fines to those who may not have a dog on a lead, Then some idiots doing double to speed limit get away? Is a Dog of a lead an easier target than a dangerous reckless driver ?

Please tell me ..... I would like to know that there is some law on stockton beach that covers everyone , not just the day goers that try to do the right thing ....

Boc

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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 21:42

Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 21:42

"Is a Dog of a lead an easier target than a dangerous reckless driver ?"

Sure is!

It's no consolation for those of us that do the right thing but things are tighter now the NPWS is in charge.

Back when Port Stephens Council was in charge it was total anarchy!

Geoff

Geoff,

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 09:13

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 09:13

the only thing we saw up there xmas eve was an ol' bloke with his daughter trying to fish..........LOL

seriuosly,we were on the dunes xmas eve and were stopped by the NPWS and he seemed more interested in a general chat than anything else.

...................and g'day Geoff :-))

FollowupID: 609357

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:17

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:17

Hi Mark,

And daughter was excited as she caught more fish than dad.

Even if it was one miserable Dart. I think you called it a Mother In Law fish.

I ended up having to explain to her what you meant!

Geoff

Geoff,

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Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 21:58

Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 21:58

Do the NSW NPWS have the power to pull over motorists? I know they should be able to prosecute unregistered motorcycles/cars but I'd hazard a guess and say that if their vehicles aren't recognised as an emergency vehicle they might not be allowed to chase and pull up cars. Probably got their rego numbers and would hand them over to the local wallopers. Do their vehicles didn't have any warning lights (blue and red) on the roof or just amber ones or none at all?

Mick

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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: 96 GXL 80 series - Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 22:26

Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 22:26

I doubt also if the NPWS would have speed cameras, so would be easy for the speedsters to beat the booking in court.

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Follow Up By: 96 GXL 80 series - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 02:18

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 02:18

or should be Radar units

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:19

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:19

The NPWS Rangers certainly do pull people over on Stockton Beach if they don't like the way they are behaving.

I've no idea if they can enforce anything though.

Geoff

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Reply By: Member - Paul C (WA) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 23:52

Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 at 23:52

Ozboc

I'm confused as to why NPWS would be there.

When I first went to Stockton it was under Port Stephens Council control.
The last time I was there, a little over a year ago, it was classed as Worimi Conservation Lands.
NPWS would have no juristiction on Stockton because it has nothing to do with it.

As for the other lunatics carrying on in peak periods, I'm guessing it would be up to the Worimi "Council" to enforce.
Either way it is bloody dangerous and inconsiderate for people to tear ass around a packed beach.

Cheers
Paul

AnswerID: 341669

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:15

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:15

Hi Paul,
The NPWS have been appointed by the Worimi Council to manage their Conservation Lands.

So yes, NPWS do most certainly have juristiction on Stockton Beach by virtue of being appointed the managers.

Geoff

Geoff,

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Follow Up By: Member - Paul C (WA) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:52

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 20:52

Thanks Geoff
I'm no longer confused...... about this matter anyway!

Cheers
Paul

FollowupID: 609430

Reply By: Dunco (NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 00:01

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 00:01

NPWS have NO authority to stop...or check speed of motor vehicle.

Even if the NSW Police were there, it would be extremely hard to enforce speed laws as it is not a public street, although many would argue different....as it is a road related area. It would be left up to the courts.

But in answer to your question, no, the NPWS have no authority. Only to check people have correct access entitlement.

AnswerID: 341670

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 01:12

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 01:12

The NSW General Transport Act covers scenarios that are not Public Roads.

The "Act" applies to "any area open to the public for the driving or parking of motor vehicles that is not a public road".

In esssence the act states that in such circumstances the appropriate road rules apply.

Example: Farmer Jones sticks up a sign at his property entrance inviting all and sundry to drive in and purchase pumpkins. The road rules then apply even thogh it is private property.

More and more shopping centre car parks are now being signposted so that the public are aware.

Yes you can be infringed for driving offences on private property.

No! It is not a requirement for it to be signposted. The next time a hoon is infringed for doing "wheelies" in a service station will not be the first.

Ian.

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Follow Up By: Dunco (NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:28

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:28

That is what I said...in essence Ian.

The old one is "It is a road whether it is open to the public by money or other means"

But you cannot give speeding tickets out if the area is not signposted with a speed limit....or as they used to say..."if it is NOT Gazetted"...as all roads are signposted with speed limits through a system previously known as Gazetting....or something like that :-)

If the cops were to book someone for "exceed Speed Limit"...what is the LIMIT ?

But they CAN charge for Driving in a manner dangerous, or Speed Dangerous

FollowupID: 609368

Follow Up By: Ozboc - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 16:56

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 16:56

Dunco , it actually is sign posted all over the beach as being 40 KMH - it is also stated in the beach permit pamphlet that accompanies the sticker

this also explains the speed limits when within a certain distance of people - sign posted speeds are at BOTH entrances to the beach and at various spot on the beach

Boc

FollowupID: 609396

Reply By: OzTroopy - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 00:12

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 00:12

I hardly think that some lunatic on a " registered " bike is going to be any less of a nuisance than one on a "unregistered " bike.

Forget rule enforcement ... Its about time for some ... correct attitude enforcement ... as the rest of your post highlights.

NPWS with police powers .... baaahaaahaaa ... they're carried away with their own self importance now .. let alone giving them that capability.

A responsible govt would have a police patrol with a suitable vehicle "showing the flag". Maybe a fatality is whats required ... to be able to ban vehicles from Stockton ... another successful NPWS lockup of land from the public..........

AnswerID: 341672

Reply By: Blaze - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 03:14

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 03:14

Having never been there I can’t comment on rules, laws etc. What I can comment on is the fact that most of the current 4X4 magazine's test vehicles regularly on the beach area, and very rarely use sand flags etc. So as I wrote in one of these magazines, with examples like this I'm not surprised with the circumstances you have described whilst there.

AnswerID: 341679

Reply By: Member - Geoff the chef (NSW) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 05:00

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 05:00

hi boc,
I was up on the beach yesterday, and it was a shame that a few yahoos on bikes and quads ruined the day for not only you but all the others who use the beach.
Its marginally better than when the council had control,but as always, it only takes a couple of idiots to spoil a good thing.
Geoff

AnswerID: 341680

Reply By: CLC50 (QLD ) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 07:38

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 07:38

Hi all.
Well I have never been on Stockton Beach,but soon day I will,
I camp on the Noosa to Double Island Point Point 15 km of Beach Camping 78kms of beach ,about 2900 camp sites, You will always have some people who have no respect for others or our children having a great day out,but you have them on the black stuff to ,The Noosa stretch is a gazetted Road & the police patrol it ever weekend ,as well as breath tests on all main Holidays. there is a 50klm Speed limit in camp beach areas & 80klm , the Police set up Radar guns all the time & book all who are breaking the road rules,which is great.
So my question is. Is the Stockton Beach a Gazetted Road,if so they will soon have Radar hand Guns,I am sure.

AnswerID: 341683

Follow Up By: Ozboc - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 17:04

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 17:04

you just bought up another point , Breath testing ...... a few weeks back a guy stumbled into my camp area to inform me that he has got his car stuck and can i help him

i drive a very short distance where his car is stuck in a really stupid spot - i told the guy he will need to do a little digging before i try to snatch him out - as he lent over to start to dig , he fell face first into the sand - it was then i realized how drunk he was. And it was about 10 AM

ended up a few of us got him out - this guy could not stand and was falling down drunk - then he says thanks in an almost unrecognizable slur " Im driving home to Sydney now" ( in hindsight - we would have left him there if we knew)

I am sure NPWS frequent this site , maybe even NC Police, would love to hear from either on this forum about what can be done!

NPWS were very quick to comment a few months back in regards to commercial licenses and toilet requirements , would have hoped they would have jumped on this topic just as quick

Boc

FollowupID: 609398

Follow Up By: CLC50 (QLD ) - Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 17:44

Monday, Dec 29, 2008 at 17:44

Hi Boc
It makes you wonder how his so call mates let him drive in the first place ,as he must of had a party some where,also you guys must of got a shock when he said he was driving back to Sydney.Lets hope he got booked when he hit the black stuff.Don,t get me wrong I love a Drink @ the right time.
I tell the story of 6 4x4 including myself where 180km from Birdsville & where stopped by the police & where breather tested, no won was booked ,but we had a big night in Windorah. & did not leave early as we all need to recover LOL

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Reply By: sfletch - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:00

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:00

Welcome to the world as we know it. There are going to be idiots everywhere you go these days,why do people need to be loud,drunk,play music,do all these things ....... i can camp out,drink beer , have the radio on but i dont need to be loud or annoying.
I just came back from camping and one bloke left the gennie running all nite,a kid was riding a mini bike around where a sign says no unreg vehicles,kids were driving cars ,blokes drunk and yelling out,beeping horns,racing around, i just try to block it out as it will never be elliminated from our society, i know if i acted like that when i was younger my old man would have kicked my ass for showing no respect to others.
I must say it is not always 100% the younger crowd.

AnswerID: 341847

Reply By: rourkster - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2008 at 00:04

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2008 at 00:04

Hi guys. First post here. NPWS officers are only "Authorised Officers" under certain Acts - one of which is NOT the Australian Road Rules and Regulations. "Authorised Officers" have certain powers under the Acts they are authorised for and can issue Infringement Notices for penalties under that Act.
Nor do they have the same powers of stop, search and detain as NSW Police. I work in the Newcastle Police radio room (VKG) and we regularly get calls from NPWS staff asking for Police to attend Stockton Beach to deal with these types.
Given that the definition of a public street or road related area has the words "open to or used by the public whether by payment of fare or otherwise" in it, then Stockton Beach is a road related area. By way of example is an accident that occurred there a couple of weeks ago where a teenage girl was seriously injured after a 4wd rollover. The teenage male driver was breath tested and charged with PCA, Drive Manner Dangerous and a number of other matters.

AnswerID: 341913

Reply By: Snowbunny - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 07:02

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 07:02

I'm surprised you didn''t get out and tell them yourself that they were all in the wrong? Then again,the computer screen offers a great safety net dosen't it.?

AnswerID: 345319

Follow Up By: Ozboc - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 19:19

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 19:19

wow , snow bunny has resurfaced , surprised you didn't go on about the same crap you did last time ( That was edited but i had the misfortune to read)

for the record - i have gone off at a few people INC an idiot that went off at a mate as he was going to wards the water with his Kite ( for kiteboarding ) guy stopped to say - this is a road - not somewhere to fly a kite ( clearly had no clue )

reply --- NO this is a beach where cars have access with no roads clearly defined and where ALL cars must give way to pedestrians ...

as for the the comment about the computer screen offering safety - guess what - your guilty of this ......

Boc

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Follow Up By: Snowbunny - Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 09:04

Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 09:04

Blah, blah blah blah, ya carrying on like a girl from Newcastle High. (matter of fact I think it was one that dobbed in my posting?) Anyway ya still didn't answer my question did ya! lol

FollowupID: 613454