Protection when Free (or Bush) Camping

Yer scary enough witrhout a firearm, Bob.......hahahahahahahaha!


Cheers

Willem, yer funny,you dont have a mirror do you.:)

Bob.

Please Note: A Starting Pistol JUST MAKES A BANG nothing comes out of the Barrel. I am just wary if it is used somebody could retaliate with a real weapon.

Peter

The person who your trying to scare the bejesus out of doesnt know that its only a starting pistol and if they return with their own firearm, where does that leave you.Probably up the proverbial creek. Personally, I'd send Willem out after them and then I'd know that they had been scared off properly.

Dash

Peter, Willem has it in a nutshell. Most of the loonies walk the streets of your local town/city at night. As far as loonies on the highways go,we did 10 mths fulltime travel, and never had a problem. Dont worry, the same thoughts of firearms crossed my mind before we left, but hey, I wasn't going to let that ruin our holiday worrying about confrontation all the time we were out there. There are numerous backpackers out there travelling in vans as well, but I bet most of them dont have a 45 under the front seat.
We actually had a young couple pull up one night on the roadside and ask if they could camp with us, so they felt safer, no prob we said.

Ive gotta admit to being a "loonie" as a young and dumb feller.

theres not much to do in a country town so one of the things for entertainment was to drive out to the rest stop 1/2 way between Kyancutta and Wudinna and give it a good seeing with circle work at 2.am.

And at least once we found a group parked out in the bush and gave them some simular treatment to wake them up.


Not saying its right but wont appolagise for it either - it was far from the dumbest things we did

So get outmore, if you'd startled a camper who had a gun and a quick reaction, you could have had a bullet through your ute, or even through you.

It wasn't you doing circles in Burra Gorge in 2006 was it? That was the ONLY time we have ever had any disturbance.

Motherhen

MMMM get outmore..."Not saying its right but wont appolagise for it either" . You may have thought what you were doing was pretty harmless fun, but have you ever considered that what you were actually doing was TERRORIZING innocent campers some probably with young kids!!! It doesn't sound like you have ever been the victim of prowlers, vandals, hoons and the like. If you had I don't think you would be very proud of yourself. When the boots on the other foot it is very different.

Kc

it wasover 25 years ago Im a different person these days Kcando and have been for many years what Im not applogising for is being young and dumb many years ago

Get outmore I think its pretty obvious you haven't changed much at all...

Willem is exactly right.I have travelled and camped in the outback
of northern Aus. in some very remote places for many years(sometimes on my own) and have never had a problem with my personal safety.I always carry a rifle for hunting purposes only on properties where I am allowed to shoot, but never would think of carrying one for self defence as it would probably be the most impractical method of security you could think of.As said use common sense when bush camping and if you are unlucky enough to be confronted by some idiot or idiots remember the same thing can happen back home wherever you live.

yes bat boy im sure you never did things you wouldnt do now

Hi Willem

Your words of wisdom were prefaced with your statement

"This idea is floated ever so often on this forum and the lunatic fringe will come out and have their say shortly."

As predicted, most people gave sensible reasons for NOT having a firearm for self defence. Then come the responses from people who have either not read, or not understood the message in the preceding replies.

Just in case i camp near these people and get shot answering the call of nature in the night, i will continue to try and camp in the bush alone - much safer.

Mh

there is no antidote to 1080. i use it to bait foxes here at home.the only reasonable chance of saving an animal may be to calm it down , give it sub cutaneous fluids as sonn as it has eaten the bait . once it gets the (runarounds) it is too late

Is that how he funded the holiday?.....LOL

He tried to argue that because it wasnt sawnoff at the stock it was legal . I said its a sawnoff shotgun you idiot .

Thanks Willem! Just about sprayed the screen in laughter at that one.

...however that just primed me for troopyman's response!

Troopyman, it could well be legal, just cos its sawn off doesn't mean its illegal.

Hi Pop
I know exactly what you mean. When I was a teenager, all I wanted was a 22 rifle. The only thing that I got very good at killing were old beer bottles and cans. My mates dad had a bad time up in the Pacific Island during WW11. He saw many things that he never wanted any other person to see or go through.
When he was drunk, he would always go off at us and said he would love to throw our rifles in his dam.

There would be countless stories like yours around.

Cheers

Stephen

Chookamamma you've hit the nail right on the head once more.

And the rest of you; I agree entirely that the danger of being killed by your own firearm is very real.

And that the danger of invasion of assault reduces exponentially with the distance away from large centres of population.

Realistically, why would a burglar venture out of town to knock off a caravan with very little saleable items, when he can stay in town and knock off a whole street of houses with easily taken and saleable electrical appliances or what ever of value.

Mh

Hey DIO - I actually agree with what you've said!

Mh

Like tying the wife up?

Mike, You'd still want to be quick, or be stronger than the aggressor or it would be snatched an used against you.

Mh

Try doing that with a wild boar you've just hit.
Krakka

The ex missus and I were camped up near the top of Mt Macedon in an open camping area just off the road. During the night a bunch of drunken hoons tried to flatten the tent while we were in it. The only thing that saved us was the threat to throw a tommyhawk through their windscreen.

On another occasion I had a fella walk unannounced into the camp fire at night with a rifle over his shoulder. At first, I wasn’t too concerned, because there were a lot of deer hunters in the Big River area back then.

After a short conversation, I started to realize this fella wasn’t quite well in the head and started to back away towards the dogs. I had a gun in the car but didn’t give any thought to it at the time. I think I was more reliant on the dogs than anything else.

We also had another bad situation in the back blocks of Tasmania.

So yes, it does happen.

I’d never encourage anyone to travel with a gun for self protection. Those that do so clearly have no understanding of the implications.

Regards

Kim

Get Out...I have had many times where my life was in danger when camping.

....Once disagreed with the wife when reversing the trailer into camp, once about where to site the camp and once I asked whether she really needed that second Tim Tam.

Times like that I was VERY glad I had never chosen to travel with a firearm.

Luckily...so Im still here!! (Happy Wife Happy Life)

Matt.

Spot on Steve

Peter Falconio rings a bell, Bradley Murdoch I believe has been convicted for that "attack".
Krakka

Krakka,

Did you actually read what I wrote?? To remind you...

"3. Australia is essentially a safe place to be, can anyone off the top of their head think of a situation that involved an attack on campers? If so could it have been prevented with a safely stored firearm? Not likely. "

Tell me how could a properly stored firearm have helped in this case? Firstly they were tourists who would not have been able to carry a firearm. Secondly from my limited knowledge of the case, I remember he stopped them on the side of the road and took them hostage. When would they have had time to unlock and load to firearm to use in self defense?

I still maintain you do not need to carry firearms for self defense.

Steve.

You asked two questions steve, I answered the first one. My answer to the second one is NO. But if I were carrying a weapon for self defense it would NOT be stored legally anyway, and it would be my choice to do that if I desired. Of course you would never have done anything illegal in your life, no of course not.
Krakka

I have worked for a major bank for the past 38+ years. When I first joined in 1970, every branch had at least 2 pistols/revolvers. The tellers had one each and the branch manager had one in his drawer.

We were always told that there was virtually no incident that you could envisage when the use of a firearm could be justified....

If a bandit entered the bank and had a gun pointed at you (the teller), then by the time you drew your weapon from under the counter, the bandit would have shot you.
If you waited until the bandit had his cash and was running out of the bank and then you shot him as he escaped, you'd be up on a manslaughter or murder charge.

Around the end of the 70's our union and the banks agreed that guns were more harm than good in our branches, so they were all removed. As far as I know, the incidence of bank hold-ups didn't increase as a result of this action.

I loved rifles and shotties when i was a teenager. Used to shoot rabbits and foxes etc, but I wouldn't even dream of owning one these days.

Roachie

Your in trouble now, I'm gunna tell her you said that. :-))

Lizard the whole point of reminding about those incidents is that they happened so many years ago and since that time many hundreds probably millions of people have traveled and camped all over the country without it happening again.

Compared to the murders and attacks that occur in our city's every year since I'd sooner be in the bush, its much safer.

Don't need a gun and good advice supplied by others in this thread.

I don't recall these incidents, but even if the victims had a gun hidden somewhere, would it have made any difference?

Mh

Probably not .... Our only case where we had cause for alarm was in 2003 on the Gulf Track - we were camped not far from Kangaroo creek , when at 01:20am my wife heard a vehicle coming - she woke us up (two couples in camper trailers) . We looked out & no lights coming up the track - thats strange .... as we kept looking a vehicle was driving along at about 20 km/hr with no lights (couldn't make out what it was ) , then it stopped adjacent to our camp (we were only 30 metres off the track) ...waited 30 seconds and then slowly moved off (we were all up now).He stopped approx a kilometre up the track - at a water crossing , then 20 minutes later he came slowly back and went past - still no lights - he kept going ....don't know what it was about (pig trapper maybe??)

Noel

The problem is for these type of people is, that it is easy "pulling the trigger" but they wont be able to handle the "consequence's,".

They think they know it all now.

So it's hard to tell anything they already think they know.

Richard

Noel.
I 'am the vietnam verteran from yesterday posts , As I said anyone who carries a rifle for protection is a bloody fool .. I was in combat in Vietnam and was trained to disarm someone within 4 seconds then the rest is history .. I cannot for the life of me understand why some one would carry a gun while travelling around oz..
The SSAA people are just pecker contestants and show who's got the bigger gun or belt buckle each weekend . while thier wifes man the bar b cues ..
Why don't they join the army and see what shooting is all about..

There are several things wrong with your argument.

1) If we assume that someone does feel threatened enough to get the rifle out, then it would be fair to say that they are in fear of their life. Yes, you will end up in court but In most States of Australia, if you are in fear of your life, then you may defend yourself in whatever manner is necessary. (Got that straight from the mouth of a serving Copper) The whole argument of excessive force etc goes out the window. It would be up to the Police to prove that you were not in fear of your life. Note that this is not the same thing as self-defense.

2) If you are being threatened, the very act of getting a rifle out would, more often than not, result in the the person concerned decamping from the scene at great pace. I know I would.

3) Even if you were forced to actually fire the rifle, why do you need to kill the person threatening you? Aiming below the waist should result in a non-lethal hit that would halt most people. Yes, I know all the theories about it being to easy to miss altogether etc but let's face it, the perpetrator would very likely p o o himself because you were dinkum enough to pull the trigger... and you should have more bullets in the magazine. It takes less than a second to reload.

4) Let's say you did kill them and as you suggested, you are way out in the boonies. What are the odds that the person you shot told anyone where he was going or that he was going to behave threateningly towards someone? Why wouldn't you just dispose of him thoughtfully? Eventually he may get reported missing but no-one would know where to start looking and you'd be long gone.

5) Martial arts require you to get "up close and personal" and unless you're very good at the "art" you could be very sorry indeed. I'd rather drill a hole in someone from 15 metres away.

6) Why would you put yourself in the situation where the perpetrator could take the gun from you? That's what guns are good at...defence at a distance. A verbal warning not to move closer, followed by popping them have it would stop that. Seriously, if you were in that situation and someone was making straight at you, you'd have to take a shot. Otherwise, what is the point. I can't recall a single, real life report where someone has been stripped of a gun and had it used against them. I can only assume because it happens on shows on the telly, then it must be true.

Now, how about a hypothetical? What if someone came into your campsite and threatened one of your family....say he tried to rape your daughter. Would you just stand there and watch? What are you going to do in that situation, throw the lid of your esky at him?

You insure your house, your car, your possessions but you don't insure yourself or your family by having some protection? It's becoming a big, bad world out there and Joanna Lees will tell you that there are people out there bent on doing you harm. Better to have the rifle and never need it than to end up as dead as Peter Falconio.

I do agree that travelling Australia is pretty safe and that if you choose your campsite carefully you can minimise risk. However, I have personally felt threatened on one occasion and took off quick-smart in my vehicle...wasn't armed in those days. If it happened again I'd still prefer to take the decamping option, but if it wasn't an option???

And I know you neither stated nor implied it but we have all heard the inference that those who have the guns may well end up using them aggressively rather than defensively at some time. I just don't get that. Owning a firearm does not automatically flick a switch in people's heads that turns them into some kind of monster.

I say that it should be a personal choice. Those that don't like guns or feel that they couldn't use one should take their chances, but they shouldn't object to those who believe that it is the right choice for them, unless of course you one day intend to be a perpetrator and might end up staring down the barrel.....

Cheers

(Better to have the rifle and never need it than to end up as dead as Peter Falconio.)

Think about it Rambo would a rifle have saved Peter.

That case was just a gung ho gun loving idiot who wanted to use the gun to get what he wanted ..

I have used rifles as well as machine guns to kill people . if you need to sate your appetite for killing and thats what guns are for Join the army or the foreign legion ..

Russ n sue
We also are travelling around , and with your attitude I hope I never cross your path . From your post I can see your one sick puppy..

With all due respect Ron, you don't know me and would not have a clue about me, or my state of mental health....and I would bet that you aren't qualified to make a judgement call like that anyway. Mate, for all you know you may have already met me and you ain't dead are you?

Just because your service in the army put you in a position where you have done things that you clearly find reprehensible does not make you the moral arbiter for the rest of us. Nor does your experience represent the views of other ex-servicemen. I personally know an ex-SAS soldier who "offed" more than his fair share of the enemy (not just the Viet Cong) and he has no lingering issues about firearms, sleeps well at night and has no regrets.

As for the Falconio case. Whether or not Bradley John Murdoch was " just a gung ho gun loving idiot who wanted to use the gun to get what he wanted .." matters not. Poor old Falconio came across what this thread is all about...a serious threat. And he had no means of protecting himself....and now he's dead. So what's your argument? Better to die than carry a gun and at least try and save yourself?

My follow-up post was addressing Richard's post by the way. Yours just happened to pop in front of mine while I was typing it. So don't think I was replying to you, you didn't really say anything that would have illicited a response from me.

Keep taking the meds Ron, you'll be OK

Cheers.

Russ.

Make sure you lock and load before you go to sleep, ya never know whats out there at night mate

Ron, judging by your post you must have been in some heavy contact's, whilst in Nam? did you do a full tour?

"They think they know it all now.

So it's hard to tell anything they already think they know."

You see what I mean ... LOL..


Richard

Tom.
I did 9 months and 4 days then I was wounded and sent to Vung Tau , then 3 months in 1 mil hospital in Sydney then 4mths repat in greenslopes Brisbane .. why do you ask

Is it Russ or Sue I am addressing here?
Firstly I am not arguing any thing,
1 It is NOT up to the Police to prove anything, they are there to uphold the law and GATHER the evidence. This will then be proven by a court of law ANY where in Australia.
2 If that were the case a less dramatic action is all that would be needed.
3 You have never shot at a person have you? HAVE YOU!? No I thought as much.
4 You are an idiot.
5 And a gun held at the back of YOUR head? What technique would you use? Don't know do you? I do, and YOU would POO yourself.
6 You are now the Judge and Jury and have three seconds left.... No I didn't think you could do it and now I have the gun.
A hypothetical you ask? No one would get near my daughter as she has earned her own Dan, fact.
ARR at last you make sense, the first rule of self defence is to, as you say, 'DECAMP"
Perpetrator? What the hell are you?


No we didn't know you, or anything about you ,Russ or Sue, but we do now, and for someone to write to a war veteran in the manner you have just done, I repeat my opinion of you as in point 4:- You are an idiot.

Noel.

Thank you Noel,

As you meander through the postings on this site you will notice that none of mine ever stoop to the low of making personal attacks on anyone. I have never called anyone an idiot, a Rambo, inferred that they are insane or anything else.

I have an opinion, just as you and Ron do. I'm entitled to that opinion, just as you and Ron are entitled to yours. If you read my reply to Ron you should have niticed that I acknowledge that Ron's service would have been difficult. However, if someone takes to me personally, then they should be ready to cop some back.

So what I said to Ron was entirely justified and the fact that he is a Vet does not earn him immunity. Let's face it if our Vets are "untouchables" then we are in a lot of trouble because they aren't all pictures of mental health.

As for your diatribe Noel.....whatever. And by the way, the Police have prosecutors and yes, they must gather the evidence required to "prove" a case. Semantics Noel, semantics. The end result is that it must be proven that uyou were not in fear of your life. Sheesh.

No I haven't shot a person Noel...and your point is? Forget it, I don't actually want to know.

Cheers.

Russ/sue,As you meander through the postings on this site you will notice that none of mine ever stoop to the low of making personal attacks on anyone. I have never called anyone an idiot, a Rambo, inferred that they are insane or anything else.


Keep taking the meds Ron, you'll be OK
What the hell, do you bloody well think this is then, ...you idiot!!!! To say that is suggesting every ex Vet in this country, that fought for you to have the rights to do what you do today is a mental nutcase? Absolute bloody shame on you pal.

You know something Snowbunny? I would actually be more scared if I bumped into you than I would if I bumped into someone like me. A tad self-righteous aren't you, not to mention contradictory?

So, I'm not allowed to say anything about anything or anyone, but you can chime in, not contibute to the actual thrust of the thread and make personal insults as you feel fit. I actually feel sorry for you.

Ron is a big boy and I suspect he's far less worried about anything said so far than you are. Let him fight his own battles and in the meantime, get over it!

BTW, you might want to re-read the rules of this forum.

Self -righteous, contradictory? in what way, please explain? Your the one that just insulted every Ex Vet in this country buddy, AND, I dare you to rock up to the next ANZAC Day Service in your local town and tell all the Ex Vet's there on the day " Keep taking your medication boys, you'll all be ok"!!
Then see what happens . End of story. Enjoy the rest of your travels.

Hi Russ n Sue any any other gun toters

Do you have a loaded firearm by your bed when at home? You are far more likely to have a burglary there than in out in the bush. What do you do - shoot and ask questions later?

Mh

Ron! Ron! Where are you Ron? Ron, if you're following this, could you lend some of your meds to Snowbunny? He/She has gone right off the deep end and could use some help.

Seriously Snowbunny, get a grip. Can't you see that you are bordering on delusional? You have taken one line from a response in this thread and escalated it from a throwaway line to an insult to every serviceman and woman in the country. Not my doing....yours.

As it happens I am squarely in the age bracket where I know heaps of Vets (Not ex-vets by the way. i assume that to become an ex-Vet you must first die.) Many of them joke openly about the "meds" that they are on. Like I said, let Ron fight his on battles and stop defending people whom have not asked you to. It's making you look a little weird.

As it also happens, I go to the ANZAC dawn service every year - do you? Last year Alice Springs, '07 and '06 Geraldton, ' 05 Jurien Bay etc etc. So stop wasting your time trying to make me look like some kind of anti-patriot. It has nothing to do with what I wrote in this thread, nor what I replied to Ron.

Motherhen...my van is my home. My home is always on the road. I am exposed to the likelihood of an ancounter more than the average traveller. That's all. I take precautions my way and you yours. As long as you don't come along threatening me, then you won't have a problem in the world will you? What I want to know is that if I choose to carry a firearm, why is that a threat to any of you who have responded? I'm not going to use it against you.

To those that say "watch out, the gun may get turned on you" think about this. For the gun to get turned on me, the threat has become a reality - everyone's worst nightmare. So what am I supposed to do? Just take it? Nah. Stuff you all. The only person likely to ever be hurt by me will be someone stupid enough to threaten my, or my family's safety. If it never happens - great!

Well I'm back,
paragraph no 1, you now sound paranoid youself, and you have just directly insulted our Vets again!
Paragraph 2, putting the blame of what you said now onto me, my friend , with a move like that, you should be great at playing chess.
Paragraph 3 ,I myself am in my late 40's so I also no many Vets, and most of them DONT like talking about Vietnam, or anything relating to it.
Paragraph 4, I have attended several dawn services over the years, not all though, I attend when work allows. Vietnam vets and ANZAC day sort of go together dont they? Quote "It has nothing to do with what I wrote in this thread, nor what I replied to Ron, (hello)
Ah well, some folk just cant sem to face the music sometimes......

Well I'm glad to see you're not calling them ex-Vets. I'd hate for people to think that I was speaking ill of the dead.

I have a feeling that you don't KNOW (spelling) many vets at all. Not one that I know has a problem with talking about their current health or state of mind. A couple won't talk about "over there" but in the main, most are OK with it. Actually, they are very happy that their efforts finally got some belated respect.

I think you might watch a bit too much TV.

Whatever you do, don't refer to me as "my friend", because I sense that you and I could never be friends. I prefer to associate with people who are analytical thinkers, who can look at both sides of an argument and then form an opinion of their own - without getting crappy with the people on the other side of the argument. I hang around with people who are witty and can tell when someone is taking the p**s. In short my friends don't need to stand in front of a mirror to double their IQ to a reasonable score.

In your analysis of paragraph 4, you state that ANZAC day and Vietnam Vets sort of go together don't they? Yep, couldn't agree more, but if your point is that I'm somehow being hypocritical for attending the Dawn Service and then insulting Vets on this forum, then I can only reiterate that you are the one who sees an insult, not me, and by the lack of response from actual Vets (including Ron), I think they all saw the interchange between Ron and myself as pretty tame and good natured. And besides, even Vets can be respected and disagreed with AT THE SAME TIME, something that you are incapable of grasping.

Snowbunny, it ends here. Whether or not you reply in your usual semi-literate manner or not does not bother me. I won't be responding to you again. Why? Because you haven't mounted a case yet and are unlikely to, you don't challenge me mentally, you are the Master of reading things between the lines that simply don't exist, you are most certainly prone to exaggeration and I've got better things to do with my time.

I have far better music to face than that that you seem to think you have dished out.

Bye.

Michael , Have you actually tried this at say 3.00am after immediately waking up and adjusting your body and eye's to the threat? How big is you're caravan/tent or what ever? Can you actually swing that golf club or whatever weapon you choose in that area? Remember YOU are still half asleep the aggressor is fully alert and full of adrenalin your body isn't yet.

Please people.... your weapon is not the end all to a confrontation. Forget how tough you think you are it will get you into trouble. A confrontation will only last a few seconds, that is all the time you have. Fear is your biggest enemy, but the aggressor has fear as well, with training you can control your fear and slow things down a bit.

Forget the 9 iron Michael and use what ya Mum gave you, your brain and a straight front kick to the abdomen.

Noel ! You assume a lot. I didn't say that's what i do or would do. I can look after myself and the assumption that all or any conflict would be while you are asleep is short sighted. What I was suggesting was something that would be a deterrent and better than a gun and the responsibilities of carrying one. Michael

Hi puttputt

I venture to add that burglaries in CPs are not uncommon, but burglaries well out of town in the bush are extremely rare. I know where i feel safer.

Mh

That's the only really sensible post amongst this dross...

I'd go further - reading this rubbish gives some insight into the minds of the pro 'gun toten' miniscule minority in our society...they have a right to say, think and I suppose arm themselves (if the relevant law still allows) however they please - but it always amazes me how measured the responses are!

OK, so don't camp where there are a heap of beer cans - add to that or in the middle of a marijuana plantation.

Mh

Perhaps you just need to spend more time in isolated places with a genuinely open mind to get over your fear of the improbable.
It's like the fear of flying syndrome where the person is quite comfortable with the ride to the airport yet in terror of the flight despite the statistics that show the relative danger falls heavily in the probability of getting killed or severely injured in a road traffic incident.

As for "Where do most criminals go when they are on the run, the bush of course, where do most drug dealers cultivate their maurijuna, in the bush.", I'd like you to offer some kind of supporting evidence for that.
My understanding is that most drug production, including cannabis growing, takes place within urban environments.
Likewise, the majority of criminals are apprehended within the more populated areas.
Those apprehensions that have occurred in remote areas have most usually been on or close to major highways where the miscreant has stopped only temporarily, or has been spotted in transit.

Please feel free to point out any misunderstandings that I may harbour.

An awfull lot of idiots in some c/van parks as well though ,

Axel,

I agree with you in saying there are a lot of idiots in CP's as well. I feel safer and its a lot quieter in most free camps.

Cheers
Caroline

well what did you expect going somwhere like "the bad lands" didnt the name give it away?

as fot getting bailed up by indians out west im getting images alot funnier than im sure it seemed to you at the time

(insert smiley icon)

Boy you have had some fun life experiences.

Glad it turned out well for you and using your brain is the key.

As an ex policeman who had been disabled by a gun shot once said on a televised gun debate

"I have yet to see a gun get up by itself and shoot someone"

Mh

Quite correct

In a previous incarnation, I spent about 20 years working in one particular area of the State’s Criminal justice system and due to a certain combination of events ended up being “expert” in murders.

Within the work environment we grouped murderers into 4 major sub-groups

The largest percentages of murders were “relational”; caused by arguments between a couple of people, (usually known to each other or in an already existing relationship) often over the quite miniscule of matters.

The next largest sub group of this were machismo contests (PC language) between a couple of men with an inflated impression of their own capabilities and deficiencies in their self esteem.

There was a significant step down to the next group; that of the “criminal” murder; most of these were simple business decisions…such as those glorified by “Underbelly”.

By far the smallest group was the crazed axe murderer type.

As it has been 9 years since I left this area I’ve forgotten the exact statistics but they’re not too hard to find if one can be bothered looking. From memory, it went something like 60%, 30%, 9% and 1%

After spending a bit of time working in this environment you realised that the greatest chance of being murdered was in your own bedroom by your partner

I always freak out when I hear someone boasting about their prowess with a gun and their opinion that they would shoot to defend and the belief they would be acquitted. When these people go into touchy situation with this attitude, there will only be one of two outcomes; either they are dead or injured or the other person is.

Strangely, most people working in this area were quite at ease with the results of the violence they saw. They were observant of the situation around themselves, used a bit of common sense and took simple precautions. Those that became paranoid soon left

I like your reply Holden 4th. Well done.

Noel.