The federal government is bringing out tougher laws for us

I have a 4wd & I don't have any lift at all!

I think its wrong to suggest "90%" of 4wd's have lift etc etc.

I would say 90% of the 4wd's I see on the streets including all the tradesmans 4wds etc are factory standard.

Maybe 90% of the people in your 4wd club have lift kits, but as a % of the 4wd's on the road that will be affected, I'd be surprised if it is 10% =- probably a LOT less.

I'd be a LOT happier sharing the roads with 4wds that were as the designed / manufacturer intended! (i.e. not lifted).

I can see that IF you add a LOT of weight to the rear of the vehicle in the way of long range fuel tanks, and LPG tanls etc - so maybe 300 or 400 kilos - that your suspension might sag and you might want lift springs to bring it back to normal tolerances.

Generally speaking tho - I am NOT a fan of lifted 4wd's.

Essentially the axel's diffs etc are still the same height from the road, so no real extra ground clearance is gained. (Only the body's jacked way up).

I'd like to know that the 4wders sharing the roads with me - have vehicles as engineered by the manufacturer and in accordance with the Aust design rules, when it comes to stability in cornering etc.

I just can't see the point in jacking the body way up.

IF there is huge ground clearance differences with giant mudders tyres etc - then generally those twits seem to drive down sandy 4wd tracks without lowering their tyre pressures and chew the tracks wheel ruts so deep that standard 4wd's with legal tyres then can't get thru.

I would have to say I am in favour of the new regs whatever they might beif it gets this element off our roads and tracks and leaves them to the "normal people" who don;t use ther vehicles as some kinda toy to destroy the tracks for others.

My personal opinion, is that your 4wd should be for the purpose of getting somewhere to do some activity (fishing camping exploring photography gold mining etc etc, NOT as a form of entertainment in and of itself (i.e.lets go drown the bastage in some mud hole for fun, cause many $1000's damage to the vehicle, put all and sundry at risk while it is recovered/winched out) and call it a weekends fun - when we just made that track impassable to everyone else who might actually have needed to get thru for some LEGITIMATE activity.

To me, those who use the 4wd for "competition / 4wding" and destroy our environment in doing so are the enemy - they are the ones who give 4wds a bad name with the rest of society.

I as a rule dont subscribe to magazines that promote such activities on their covers etc (listening 4wd Australia?).

Maybe I'm different from aLOT of 4wders - but I'd be surprised if a LOT of the members here aren't just your grey nomads tourers who want info on products for towing and touring and destination information etc for their travels.

I honestly reckon SOME (not all) 4wd clubs are more focused on using the 4wd as and in itself as a form of "entertainment" and not as a "means to an end" to get somewhere remote for some legitimate purpose.

I guess I am getting old and showing it.

My 2c
Cheers

There are some 4wd vehicles around that look like they are likely to be unroadworthy. They look really top heavy and even do not appear to handle very well when following them.
A tilt tray operator, out of Kununurra, was telling me of an almost new Landcruiser he picked up near Kalumburu. The owner had spent a lot of money on lifting it only to find it became very unstable with the result it overturned and was a write off.
Maybe the manufacturers know the limits of their vehicle when they build them better than some of the owners.
It is about time the Federal Government laws over ride the State laws as it seems some States do not put a priority on road worthy vehicles. Already we are all governed by the Australian Road Rules so it stands to reason that the Feds will ensure all vehicles comply to safety standards.

sounds like bollocks

there are many areas where making laws fderal would make sense and they dont so what makes you think they will do it for 4wd lift?

we dont have federal road laws, gun laws, vehicle liscensing laws etc

Hi kingkennas

This is not legal or regulatory advice, however I think that Vic Roads already uses vehicle standards that have been developed nationally, specifically Vehicle Standards Bulletin (VSB) 14, the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification. It is Vic Roads compliance with VSB 14 that allows us Victorians to have a maximum 2" suspension lift, and tyres no more than 2" greater diameter (or 15mm smaller, I think) than the largest standard tyre. Modifications outside these limits require an engineering certificate.

It will be very interesting to see if the national standards change as you've written.

George_M

kingkennas lead story on the lift rules mooted to be implemented are the same as we were given at a briefing in SA on the 21st May. That seems to be what our commie federal government wants. That will be what our mainly commie state governments will do. Remember the golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules!

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So if you have a current engineers certificate for lift and tyres, will it be void???

Don't think it is bollocks. Tonight's news announced ALL new vehicles must have Stability Control fitted and active by 2014. Victorian Govt. announced they will require such equipment 3 years earlier - 2011. With the high rate of single vehicle accidents (of all vehicles) it suggests drivers are not coping or exceeding their ability. Guess the govt. figures that the more controls fitted to vehicles the less likelyhood driver error will have in contributing to such accidents (collisions). All about road safety - for everyone.

There is something very simple we can all do to stop this ever happening.

Remember this and act accordingly when our "mate" from Qld goes to the polls.

I would imagine the reason behind whatever the Federal or any State Government is planing will have something to do with accidents. Drivers of any kind of cars see the occassional accident on the road or on TV but there are people in Government departments who see the police and/or accident investigation team reports on all accidents.

It would be interesting to see the exact causes of all those involving 4wds. Modifications like larger diameter wheels will increase the breaking distance. Raising the centre of gravity dosen't help either. Changes in the distance between the centre of gravity and the roll centre of a suspension can have an adverse effect on the roll angle of the car and the way it handles. Few 4b owners would have a clue what any changes they have made to their suspensions have done to its geometry and I don't mean its wheel alignment. Any detrimental effects may not be evident until the car gets into an emergency situation.

There is also overloading which is common with 4wds. It could be argued that this is encouraged by the huge number of aftermarket springs available to "correct" this problem.

If all of these things are showing up in national statistics as being a probelm of sufficient severity to warrant regulation changes, then they are going to be introduced sooner or later

The argument for needing "extra lift" when carrying addidtional fuel is false. 150 litres of fuel weighs less than a couple of lard arses, (like me 95 kilos) in the back seat and in addition the weight is generally lower. (Some of course insist on carrying the fuel in jerry cans on the roof rack).
Most problems appear to be caused by overloading combined with excess speed. Why do people who are "looking around our great country" need to travel so fast?. Why do they have to carry so much stuff. You can buy food every second day almost anywhere in Australia unless you are camping for a protracted time and then you do not need so much fuel.
I recall reading some words of wisdom here a while ago. "When travelling buy something from the little store on the side of the road. Next year they may have gone broke and closed down and you need help."
I no longer have my RR but still get about in the car. I make it a habit to follow those words of wisdom. I still top up with fuel and have a chat even now.
Happy travelling

The new laws will in fact be stricter than you state.
Hopefully this will help stop the rampant 4WD environmental vandalism that is so prevalent. We are campaigning for stiffer laws at Federal and State level and containment of 4WD because of the alarming 4WD vandalism in to the environment everywhere. About time 4WD rampant hooliganism is curtailed. Australian bush can no longer tolerate destruction of everything by much idiots behind the wheels of 4WD.

They would be better to bring in compulsory ABS and traction control for all new vehicles, these would be the best and safest options.

As for lift we replaced the springs and shocks and had 20mm lift put in and our vehicle is far safer and has less body roll than the manufactures standard suspension. I feel safer handling on the road with the mods done than in the vehicle as delivered.

I would much prefer the license to be harder .. lets say $4000 or so like in other countries or maybe even a special license for larger, stronger vehicles (like motorbikes) .. that takes a few idiots off the road ... and I would much prefer the police crack down on drivers with lights not working. The number of cars with lights not working (front, rear, brakes) is staggering ... and the number of posers with their fog lights on under normal conditions ... the few 4WD with d.ck extensions are not really the problem I guess ...
And yes .. any excuse to get rid of this government is good ..

have fun
gmd

I have 50mm suspension lift.

I have 50mm larger tyre diameter.

I enjoy challenging drives - on tracks, in this "free" land.

I am with patrol22 mostly....... I utilise my vehicle as he does plus a bit more, I like the more remote parts of the country where I can escape the wannabes and yahoos.

How about we just have a better enforcement of the current laws...... I resent the yobbos who drive obviously unsafe vehicles with huge lift and enormous tyres, tear up our tracks, leave the rubbish, earn us the bad reputation and bad press. I resent the yobbos whose cars are dropped lower and souped up so they can do burnouts, etc. I resent the "decent hard working" people who drive whilst on their mobiles - because their behaviour couldn't possibly cause an accident could it? (sorry - cynicism and sarcasm in one statement - I'm a little ticked off with these issues)

Blame our pollies - yeah why not - after all they are the government we deserve.

More importantly blame yourselves, yes me too, stop whining and send an email to your local MPs, State and Federal. Join the ANFWDC and have this say in a fashion that can influence policy.

Stop the vocal minority - "the squeaky hinge gets the oil" - over-ride them with your voices in the pollies ears....!!!!!!!!!

No-one else will do it for you - accept responsibility .... !!!!!!!!

Stay safe out there, be vigilant boys and girls, because all these rules and regs will NOT stop people speeding and drink driving and just plain old being too stupid to ever be permitted to be in charge of a motor vehicle.

For years people have been complaining about different laws in the different states. The same applies to 4X4 mods. What's legal in one state is illegal in the next. I've got a 50mm lift with slightly larger tyres (26570x17 as opposed to the original 27065x17) on my patrol.
AAMI knows and accepts this as a legal mod, but any higher and a larger tyre would make it unroadworthy (and not insured).
Qld (according to members on the Nissan Patrol Forum) have complained on being pulled over and given unroadworthy tickets. The same applied to 4X4s going through Marysville and Merrijig last year. Quite a few wre put off the roads.
It is about time the states had uniform road and traffic laws, especially when towing, travelling interstate.

A few years ago, I was driving a Honda Prelude (my wife’s car at the time) along a divided highway when a lifted Hilux with oversized muddies that was overtaking me decided to inhabit the same lane. He may have forgotten I was there, didn’t see me or had a momentary lapse in concentration; doesn’t really matter

Despite leaning on the horn, braking and heading onto the verge, the bottom edge of the bull bar managed to tap the Prelude’s driver’s side mirror.

I know the Prelude is a low car and the seating is also low, but it was terrifying to see a bull bar coming in at head height.

Interesting that not one person so far has stated a thing about the other 98% (10% of all 4WD’s lifted?) of other cars on the road that are not lifted and discuss the possible implications for them.

Gives a pretty good indication of what these people really think about others they share the road with

Personally, fit what ever lift you want to your car.

However, be prepared to wear the consequences either of your decision in the civil or criminal jurisdictions but don’t expect the 98% to support or finance your decisions

PS: give you a hint, the lawyers will get richer; the insurance companies won’t get poorer

Your club has only just heard about NCOP?? Your kidding arent you?? Its been coming for 10yrs.

Anyway NSW and Qld have started re-writing it, so it isnt coming anytime soon.

Flywest said in part:

"I honestly reckon SOME (not all) 4wd clubs are more focused on using the 4wd as and in itself as a form of "entertainment" and not as a "means to an end" to get somewhere remote for some legitimate purpose.

I guess I am getting old and showing it."
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Flywest, you got my vote. I would bet the farm there's more of "us" then there is of "them", ie., people just wanting to go about their lawful way, enjoying Australia within the law. The redneck brigade who care little about habitat destruction will be taken care of with the impending law changes.

If, and it's a -big- IF, the laws are policed and enforced. The down side will be that the Feral Guvmint may chuck a blanket over -all- 4wheelers and find ways to fatten its coffers - Polies gotta be paid hey!

Why do the "lifters" not lobby local guvmint to get themselves the use of a quarry. Transport your (unlicense-able) rigs by trailer and go knock yourself out. Enjoy - Don't Destroy. No Puss, No Pain! We have our tracks, you have your quarries.

As for driving lifted rigs on our suburban streets and highways - get real! I mean, get real!!

Yeah maybe I'm getting too old too, but I know what's sensible and safe.

wood4me