The logistics of travelling with 4 kids, 2 dogs! F250?

Hi Leah, firstly congratulations on making the big decision re a big lap around Oz.
I havent any advice re vehicle choice, but you are wise to be very aware of weight legalities. You wont thank me for this, but my advice is..lose the dogs.
Yes I know all that, but you will not be welcome at most commercial camping
parks, barred from all National Parks & will not endear yourself to fellow
campers when your dogs invade their space, or, heaven forbid, bark. No ,I dont
hate dogs, quite the contrary, but I feel all the restrictions are not in their best interest either. You will be occupied enough with 4 young kids without the
added load of the hounds. Not sure of the legality of leaving animals in a locked
vehicle either, can be fatal in hot weather, & leaving them tied up outside may
result in them being pinched, or worse,legal liability if they cause damage or injury. Your choice, of course. Anyway, have a great trip......oldbaz.

Have just spent 8 weeks up north and the temp hasnt been under 30 any day.

Leave the car in a park for an hour and you cant touch the steering wheel when you get in Inside temp would be in the 50s and would kill the dogs very quickly.

Even in shade in Darwin it doesnt make much difference.
If found left in car would probably result in having a conversation with a cop as I believe its illegal to do so.
Would you leave one of the kids in the car????? think of the dogs as a kid treat it the same.

My mate has a f250 long bed ute with suicide doors and it is a 7 seater (yes 5 seatbelts in the back) with a massive tray. cheers marn

You should either not take your 1 year trip seriously or not take dogs. Get a list of national parks and strike the lot off your travel plans.

If you are that serious about the dogs stay home.

Leah,
Yes you can do it your way, we travelled with 4 kids and 2 dogs a Labrador and German shepherd in a short wheeled base daihatsu, trailer and tents for a couple of months, kids 11, 9, 7, 4, yes it was a bit of a hassle, but it was fun, regarding where you go the book "camps Australia wide" gives you lots of information on where you can go with and without dogs and also free camping if you are into that www.campsaustraliawide.com is the website. I cant help with the conversion about seat belts, but when we bought our little champ it was already fitted out in the back with additional belts and the dogs stayed in the back with sliding windows open and drooling everywhere ;o)), and we mostly travelled in the Kimberley summer and winter as we were based in Port Hedland at the time.
Hope this gives you some more encouragement and keeps your going
...... cheers

I cannot tell you what you should or should not do but I can tell you what I would do in your situation.

This is how we travel when we are not overseas and this is also what I would do in your situation except I'd leave the boat at home and hang up another caravan (max 18") to sleep 4 kids.

There are so many advantages over any other solution in my opinion but your mileage may vary.

Points to consider:
Vehicles like this are not readily available unless you pay a premium. We have imported the vehicle ourselves and had it converted. Takes a bit of time but is a lot cheaper.

Truck campers like this are rare in Australia. You get the smaller Northstar though.

I left the truck at it's original GVM (5.2t - not downgraded to 4.5) so one needs a truck license and an articulated one for that matter when you tow.

Separating a large van into two units has its pros and cons of course.

The 3 year old's may not be comfortable yet to sleep separate, ours were ok though at this age. It gives you a lot more peace and privacy.

You can buy a much cheaper van, have more payload and a much saver and comfortable vehicle when carrying loads and towing.

The truck is available with a front bench seat.

good luck with your decision.

gmd

Gidday Leah


I generally head off north each year and can tell you that plenty of people travel with their dogs. There’s a bit of an adjustment to be made, but it’s not that hard.

From what I’ve seen, most people leave their dog in the caravan with the air conditioning on, and a bowl of water if their sightseeing for a couple of hours.

The dog(s) will soon learn not to bark in a caravan park if you train them along the way.

The dogs should remain tethered in the park, and with a reasonable amount of rope to let them move around a bit. A good walk also keeps them active.

In the bush it’s a different story, particularly isolated areas where many dogs wonder off, never to be seen again. It all comes back to supervision and a bit of care.

In this situation (particularly with kelpies and Collies) never let the two run together. One of the dogs should always be chained, whilst the other runs around a bit.

Finally I'd stick to the Landcruiser. You can install air bags at the rear end, or even opt for a suspension upgrade which will be a lot cheaper. Have a great trip.

Regards

Kim

Hi Leah,

I wont go into the "dog" thing, but I'll pass on some info about F250's. Our family looked at this option recently to *maybe* replace the Prado. The 250's we were looking at were the 7.3L turbo diesels. What we found out was;

F250's have not been imported into Oz since late 2005. This because they dont meet our emission laws.

A F250 today secondhand, is getting the same money as when they were selling brand new! ~$65k - $ 70k.

Build quality is Ford Falcon-esque. Not as good as a Toyota or Nissian.

Depending on where you live, rego will be more expensive due to their GVM. More truck like than car like price wise.

Met a QLD bloke in Batemans Bay recently who used F250's on his working property, and had bought a Chev Silverado to tow his Bushtracker 3.5t van instead.

What a unit! Huge turbo diesel with a decent interior to boot. Price was $140k on road. :-(

We've decided to stick with the Prado a while longer, but still like the F250's!

Cheers, Matt

Leah





Had it just going on 3 years now and only done some 20,00 km's in that time.

Cost around $82 K when I bought it Xmas 2006 & I spent over $20K modifying it to tow long distances.

IF you find one of these, like the one listed above in Adelaide, you will need to do a bit too it to be suited to long distance travel (long range tanks etc).

They DO have the room in them you seek.

That said - I don't think modifying the seat belts in the rear would be legal, coz the outside pair are on self re tractors etc etc.

The biggest issue we have had was a common electrical short in the computerized system that controls the engine.

It was in WA's Pilbara region, the vehicle was still under Ford Extended care warranty BUT, at the time there was no Ford dealership anywhere within 1000 kms in either direction (Broome and Carnarvon were the two closest).

Very costly to truck the vehicle that far to get repairs effected - so - we went with the heavy duty diesel fitter repairs services available in the northwest mining service center of Karratha.

5 months later and over $10K worth of bills that Ford Warranty wouldn't cover later, we finally got it repaired properly.

I honestly would tell you as an owner of a F 250 to buy something else - maybe a nice 100 series TD Cruiser 100 series.

There are a lot of short commings not commonly known here in Australia about the F 250's.

In the states -- the same truck would bring 10 grand second hand they are that common.

The price here is due to the rarity - it doesn't reflect their sophistication or reliability.

They have some annoying short comings - like you cannot direct cold air conditioned air onto you feet while traveling - the controls just don't allow it.

The floor pan with its rubber mats gets REALLY hot from reflected heat off the road and the fact that with a RH conversion the giant 4 inch exhaust runs right under the drivers foot well.

The big 7.3liter turbo diesel exhaust gets damn hot too....on my Exhaust gas Temp gauge temps of 450 C to 550 C (4 to 5 times the heat of boiling water).

In America in winter in the snow - this would keep your feet toastie warm.

In Australia in Summer, the skin will peel off your feet! Pretty sad not to be able to cool those feet with air conditioned air!

You could wear shoes but your feet will squelch with pools of sweat!

These are just things from hard won practical experience long range towing with the F truck.

You will get 5 km / liter towiung that van - and diesel up north can cost almost 2 bucks a liter - work out your fuel bills based on those figures!

The only good thing is - the Big F 250 will pull that van on the highway at 100 kph all day with ease! Even big road trains going past won;t push you all over the road with their wind buffeting the F truck weighs nearly 4 tonnes without the van - so sits on the road like a brick.

Honestly If I were you I wouldn't embark on the trip your contemplating in a F truck...

Everywhere we went up north there was a Toyota dealer. Not so Ford!

The F trucks DO hold their price well, I reckon i could easily get today what I paid for mine almost 3 years ago - due to the rarity factor.

Best of luckwith whatever you choose to do.

Cheers

Hi Leah,

We have travelled many parts of Australia with 3 young kids (now teenagers)which was absolutely amazing and you will all love it, best wishes with working out the logistics, get the Camps Australia Wide book as suggested above it will be a great help.
Best suggestion I can make is it take your time, get to the campgrounds by mid afternoon so you have plenty of time to get sorted out before dark.

Cheers Tina

Anything is possible, just comes with some compromises. Sitting at home waiting for the perfect situation instead of going is a BIG compromise. Some people travel with $150k Winnebago, some with a XD falcon and Kmart tent. You do what you can. Good luck with the travels.

You could also consider the next step - a twin cab 4wd truck. Check the specs on the Canter and Isuzu:
Canter 4X4 specs
Izuzu 4X4 spces

Hi Leah

Sounds exciting!

Someone has posted on the Mitsubishi Canter, and maybe converting one of these might be the go. There is also the OKAs’ they might be worth a look.

I guess the big thing you need to consider is comfort, especially if you intend to be on the road for a year or so. Most four-wheel drives that we are all familiar with will struggle with the comfort aspect once you put two adults, three kids and two dogs in.

Thinking outside the square; have you considered two vehicles, one as a tow vehicle for the Caravan, the other you could pull a trailer if you wanted to. Whilst this will increase your travelling costs (by double I guess) at least it provides a much better level of comfort.

Good luck with it anyway….

Cheers

Hi Leah,

The base model F trucks (XL) are a 6 seater 3 across the front bench seat. Don't know about legalities but I would put my 7 yr old in the front if that was my situation and vehicle. XL F trucks are quite a bit cheaper too but still probably over your budget unless you get a really high mile one or the petrol v8. Either way it will be hard to find in the price range but good luck. They have great resale and this is why you will pay so much for one now.

Don't know about your dogs but all of mine have been fine either tied up under my vehicles or staying under the vehicle when I say stay (all have been well trained). I would not hesitate to take any well trained dog if travelling, they are part of the family and will protect you and your possessions whilst doing so.

I would think many later model Cruisers or Patrols (probably other makes too) would tug the van (Gross maybe 2700kg from your Tare estimates) without issue. I have dragged a van weighing 3T (at times) for many of hundereds of thousand km in all conditions with my Patrol and not the van or Patrol have any dramas getting back from anywhere I have been. The van has well over 250 thousand k's on it and the car pushing 400 thousand but still I don't hesitate taking either into remote country when I want. To me there is plenty of options for you and your family but only half the fun will be deciding which one works better for you all, the most fun will be in getting out there and doing it.

Good luck to you and the family. Enjoy!!
Trevor.

Hi Leah
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned since I have been following your threads, is using a camper trailer. At the Sydney caravan and camping show there were quite a few that have either a queen or king sized bed, another area where you could easily sleep 4 littlies, and a further huge living area.
We met up with a family a couple of weeks ago out of Boroloola who were travelling for a year in a mini bus pulling their camper trailer. Their kids were 7, 5, 3 and not quite 1.
Friends of our carry a collapsable dog enclosure which looks quite strong-also have a dog run with a length of rope tied down at each end and the dogs lead fitted over so it could run the full length of the rope, some in the sun and some out, and not get tangled up.
In your previous thread, you were talking about having an ensuite in your caravan. Using our caravan shower this morning I was thinking that you would have trouble showering three year olds without getting soaked yourself, and you also need to be careful that water doesn't get down the base of the window, and with kids showering, there will be water going everywhere! You could carry a porta potty, a shower tent which doesn't weigh much and a camp shower for you and hubby with one of those large rubber buckets for the kids to bathe in.
On another angle, we have a 200 series landcruiser and are pulling a 3 1/2 ton loaded off road caravan. The cruiser does it easily and our consumption rates are averaging out at 20ltrs/100 kms towing, and that includes roads like the Savannah Way (dirt, corrugations, bull dust, etc.), highway travel and city driving.
All these ideas are just that, ideas and options.
Good luck, and I hope you have a great time.

Hi Leah,
Just having a look through rvpoint and found this really good set up. Looks like they have 4 kids too.
Keep positive. Something will turn up. Sally
http://www.rvpoint.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?ItemID=2980228&TabID=204545

We are planning to something similar next year (once the business has sold) but with only 2 kids and no dogs. Despite not being in quite the same boat I have gone through most of the same questions you have been asking yourself. I have gone through the "Go Big, Comfy & Expensive" as well as the "Small, Simpler & Cheaper" options. We ended up somewhere in between, as we are likely to be in the van for a couple of years.

I decided to go for an Expanda 18ft with the bunks, towed by a petrol/LPG cruiser. You could consider an expanda, as the 18ft can have not just the two beds at the ends but a set of bunks inside as well, in place of the slide-out lounge. This has the benefits of being relatively light, so it may give you more options for a tow vehicle (probably not, though, a 2.5t limit is cutting it a bit fine).

Have you considered putting a double dog-box on the drawbar of the van? That way the dogs aren't taking up interior space, and they always have plenty of ventilation. You could even rig up some extra shade over them for when you go out and leave them locked up. Logically, it shouldn't be much different to a ute box. You may have to relocate the gas bottles inside the front boot.

Another option I looked at but binned was the light truck idea. A real pity, as it would have solved alot of problems with carting stuff. It came up on another caravanning forum a few months ago, and got a reply from someone who used to fix the vans belonging to a traveling circus that used to tow with trucks. He said that the stiff suspension in the trucks transmits and magnifies (due to the rear overhang) any bumps in the road to the van's drawbar, causing cracks in the bar and joinery problems inside. My parents have an Isuzu N-series based campervan, and I have first hand experience of the rear suspension so I had to agree with him.