Snake Bite.?

Axle

Have a look at the St John's Ambulance site, here.

I think that the trick is to have good quality compression bandages.

George

yes the compression bandage Ive heard no has died after being bitten with that technique used in a timely fashion.


on another note Im pretty sure noone has died from a RBB

these are the fellas to look out for

no 1 australias deadliest snake - the brown

Death Adder



and the tiger snake



but really the best way not to get bitten is to waer boots and long pants and gloves and long sleeves if collecting firewood.

that said I do plenty of bushwalking with not so much as a close call.

our snakes really are very timid and retiring and are very much well down the list of any worlds deadliest snake list

Contrary to what the old westerns (and some modern ones show you, the venom form a snake bite does not flow through your bloodstream unless the snake gets a direct hit which is unlikely.

The poison, which is a neurotoxin, works on your neurological system and is distributed via your lymphatic system. The best way to slow it down is to apply compression bandages asap and make them as tight as possible without cutting off blood circulation. Compression slows down the lymphodaemic process .

The best comparison I can come up with is the Epipen. If you have an anaphylactic reaction then the dose of epinephrine that you put into your thigh via the pen also works through the lymphatic system and it is distributed very quickly. Compression would slow up this process.

Your Lucky Axle that the red belly is not classed as aggressive,I nearly stood on one a few months back,saw it out of the corner off my eye and originally thought maybe a bicycle had ridden over it and killed it,stepped back quietly,it took a small stick on the noggin for it to finaly slither away...

I have been led to believe that if ya have (the rather timid) Red Bellied Black snakes in your locality, then you are far less likeky to encounter the more dangerous species (such as browns, etc.), in which case the RBB can be considered your friend....
On that basis alone, I hope ya let him go on his way.....

:)

According to William Henry (Hairy Harry) Butler who I was associated with some 55 years ago, if you get bitten bleep on the bite and wash the venom away if you do not have plenty of water nearby. Then rest. No running about or getting excited. Easy to say hard to put in practice.
Most Australian snakes have rear fangs and there is little chance of venom being injected directly into the blood steam.
The best cure is, of course, take care not to be bitten. Look before you plunge in.

Something else to wet the whistle.
Also known as the Western Taipan.


The Fierce Snake (Oxyuranus microlepidotus) from Australia has, drop for drop, the most poisonous venom of any snake in the world.

The first live specimen was not captured until 1975 and not much is known about its habits. The Fierce snake's venom is extremely toxic and a small animal would die within seconds, its nervous system and heart instantly paralysed. The Fierce Snake's venom is more than fifty times as potent as the Indian Cobra's. The maximum yield recorded for one bite is 110mg. That would be enough to kill over one hundred people or quarter of a million mice.

The Fierce Snake only lives in an isolated area around where the South Australian, New South Wales and Queensland borders meet. It is usually most active in the early half of the morning when it basks. In cooler weather, it is also active in the afternoon; in hot weather it becomes nocturnal.

The Taipan (Oxyuranus scutellatus) was thought to be the world's most venemous snake until the discovery of the Fierce Snake, its cousin. The Taipan lives in the far North of Australia and down the Queensland coast, and has been found in Western New South Wales as far South as the Murray River.

The Taipan is an agressive hunter, moving at high speed through grasslands with ease. On finding its prey by scent, it flings itself at the victim and inflicts several rapid bites. Like most other venomous snakes, the Taipan uses its venom sparingly. As they don't regard man as prey, they have been know to strike and bite without releasing any venom at all.

We've also got the world's most poisonous spiders in Australia.

good topic guys, to add a little,if you are unsure what to do in the case of snake bite, what would you do if someone collapsed from the same, how would you manage someone throwing blood all over your best carpet or choking on that barbie que steak???? if you don't know spend a few dollars with St Johns and find the answers...have a good week
Brian

DO NOT WASH THE BITE AREA EVER! The venom on your skin is used to confirm the type of snake and to chose the correct antivenin.

Compression bandage as firm as possible and the more the better, splint if possible. seek medical assistance as quickly as possible. Do not remove bandages untill you are at a hospital, doctors or care facility. Bandage and use any material or cloth torn into strips to make compression bandages,Torn up Tee shirts make good bandages ( hopefully they were being worn by attractive young women :)

I have known cases not to show any symptoms for 24 hours while bandages were applied, as soon as the bandages were removed he went flat and needed resuscitation and antivenins.

Working in isolated areas in NW Australia we were told that if bitten by a snake to drop to the ground, lay completely still and be prepared to stay there for up to 24hrs if need be, until our colleagues would transfer you to hospital [5-6hrs away by car]. Our guide had been bitten twice before by king brown, dropped still on the spot and is living proof that immobilisation works. Food for thought.

Love this business of rear fangs and front fangs :) Do a lot of scuba diving and see sea snakes sometimes in the tropics - now *there* is a poisonous animal. Was told several times that they have small rear fangs and a small mouth, so to bite you they have to do that, say, on the bit of webbed flesh between thumb and forefinger.

Was diving under the pier at Exmouth in '93 and had an olive brown sea snake follow us around the dive (one of Oz's best dive sites, BTW). Dive guide grabbed the snake behind the head and handed it to me - more fool me took it...

And for the next 5 minutes or so I held this quite docile animal while we cruised around the dive site... My thought that he wanted to keep the animal in sight - apparently he was demonstrating how docile it was... (some sea snakes are a bit snarky - not this model though)

In sign language I asked the dive guide what he wanted me to do with the snake - he said let it go. I said you think me stupid - he said no no, let it go. So I did, expecting a retaliatory strike. No such thing - the animal just resumed what he/she was doing before - cruising, following us and looking for food - which we had in the form of some pilchards to feed some large fish in the area (snake not dumb - had divers well trained).

Come feed time, we fed the locals keeping an eye on the snake. He (it was "he" I think - too docile ;) cruised over to me to look over the half pilly I had in my hand. I thought - why not - and let him lick the fish - and then surprise surprise he opened his mouth, well and truly wide enough to grab the pilly (SMALL JAWS??!?!?). Hey hey I said, not so greedy - and pulled back. Nope he said, MINE and hung on - that fish wasn't coming out (SMALL TEETH???!!?? REAR-SET???!?!). I let the pilly go - ungloved hands beats venomous teeth any day...

I watched fascinated as inches in front of my face said small jawed, small toothed sea snake unhinged his lower jaw and GAPED over the fish - with the obvious intention of swallowing it whole... He certainly was not going to nibble at it!

Big snake, small snake, venomous or unvenomous. I respect 'em. I have done some dumb things with them (see above), and have been bitten by a python (another myth - no venom? That bite hurt - for a whole month - don't ask what happened - it was in a place it should not have been).I have pulled a gwarder out from under the tent (whats that? Oh a snake - sorry mate. Thing hissed at me, lots, as I put it outside of the campsite). Had a 2 metre western taipan come through the campsite (discovered by a 3 year old with us - that sent a shiver up me back) - totally without fear (the snake that is). Had a brown snake go under me mum's camp chair (that was a big worm, she said...). Had a death adder whip between me legs walking down a customer's driveway. Short fat thing, with a wedge shaped head - and travelling quite quickly too thank you. Did not even have time to get out of the road as it went into the swimming pool.

Quite often wherever I go I am with overseas travellers - and sometimes a snake comes into the campsite. If the snake is hanging around quite often it might be a python. In that case I take the opportunity to identify the snake and get close for the benefit of the tourists (female English backpackers are best for this - their horrified fascination can be entertaining) and point out that not ALL of Australia wants to eat you or kill you... There is a beauty to snakes that fascinate me.

Best rule of thumb, leave them alone. Second - carry a snake bite kit, with three wide sports bandages. Third - know how to use them (in fact do a 1st Aid course while you are at it)

I am not in favour of thumping them with the nearest shovel - apart from the fact the snake is generally quite innocent of instigating any crimes, an agro snake can cause you lots more problems than a snake who is but passing through.

viz

Ok Everyone!, I started this Topic and really everyone should take serious notice of the valuable information so far . A snake bite is something a everyday bushwalker, camper, caravaner, 4wd.er, could encounter at any given place or time, So this is where knowledge on a forum can be put to life saving use.

Thanks for all the info so far.

Axle.

Recent research seems to show that "Non venomous" species do in fact have a residual venom system. This may also includes some larger lizards like Goannas.

Regardless of the venom in these species they eat meat or carrion and don't brush or floss, if bitten seek medical assistance as soon as possible. Infections can be as damaging as other poisons .

Hi everyone!
I have a phobia about snakes but love bushwalking so my husband for my birthday purchased a pair of snake gatters from the US lightweight made of kevlar put them on under jeans dont know you have them on I know it is a bit of overkill but I dont worry anymore when out bushwalking makes it more enjoyable
Barb

Saw quite a few snakes on the trip this year. I suppose it's really the ones you don't see that are the worry though. I never walk away from a vehicle or camp in the bush without having a constrictive bandage either with me or handy. Relieable study shows that a properly applied bandage will up the hours of survivability from a serious snake bite from 2 hours up to 36 depending on venom load, activity etc. Still for my remote travelling..I'm screwed anyway lol.

Cheers Mick.


Heres a blog on the wriggle sticks I posted the other day.Western Desert Wriggle Sticks!

Best way is to make sure some else is walking in front off you lol. Seriously most people who die from a snake bite either panic or administer no first aid. As we have travelled the bandage is to only first aid recommended. We have 1 in the car we take with us when we go walking ect. Most people don't bother but only has to happen once to make it worth while.

Josh

Axle

After giving due consideration to the above posts I can only add this.

Keep your fingers away from where they are not wanted and you won't get bitten,,,,,,simple really!

Inland taipan doesnt make it on many "worst" lists, its relatively new, but it is most toxic by a huge margin. Cant be classed in deadliest because no one has died but have the lowest LD50 by a factor of 10 I think, Eastern brown isnt that far behind
Areas they live is very sparsely populated
I used to live out where the Fierce snake was "refound", we saw a few, they just look like a small brown. One of the few snakes which changes colour, brown to nearly black.
They would come towards you not move away once they knew you were there, not really agressive just didnt seem to care about you
We just thought they were crazy young brown snakes, glad no one ever got bitten

Snake guy does the round of shows locallly reckons it highly unlikely australian snakes can bit through normal heavy cotton trousers.
Most bites to people are on the HANDS when they try to catch them !!!!!!
JR

Some good advice here, couple of other things you could do are:
Don't try to catch the snake for id, most people are bitten trying to catch or kill snakes and most bites are on legs, then arms.
Don't wash bite site.
Apply compression bandage
Restrict movement - especially in affected limb - lymph system is like a pump and will slowly pump poison around - bandage restricts this flow as does no movement, low heartrate etc.
Put an X and write the time on the bandage where the bite is, that saves the ambos removing the whole bandage to get to the bite - to check venom etc
Call help ASAP

Safe travels

I think a snake expert will explain it better, but I believe Aust snakes and American snakes have different venom delivery systems.
American snakes have longer hollow fangs and inject poison through the fangs into a wound.
Aust snakes have solid fangs which 'rip' a hole into which venom is squirted from a gland in their head.
Yank bites tend to be deeper with deeper venom injection and that's why the compression bandage isn't as popular over there.
Our bites generally end up with most poison being delivered superficially or fairly shallow, so the compression bandage is ideal for us.
That's pretty much what we were taught during training anyway.
Hopefully an expert will polish the explanation....or completely debunk it.

Read this to get some idea on how clueless the yanks are

http://www.campingsurvival.com/snakebitekit1.html

variations of this type of thing are common over there

there you go....