Who still uses hardcopy maps

Submitted: Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:32
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Afternoon all, I am in the process of sorting out my navigation needs and will more than likely go with a netbook tied in with the Etrex I have or the Holux GPS mouse.. Anyway doing a search of past threads on the subject, it occured to me that not many people seem to be using the old paper maps and GPS as their main means of navigation with most now using the current technology. So the question is who is still using the old way and why?

Cheers

Mark
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Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:42

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:42
I still use paper maps cause I can't afford the GPS Nav system I want LOL

Have the basic Tom Tom for street Nav though.

Cheers Kev
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Reply By: Tenpounder (SA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:43

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:43
My view is that anyone who relies 100% on electronic navigation is a danger to themselves and the others who may have to rescue them one day. Any single failure in the GPS or the laptop or whatever, and you've got nothing: sweet nothing!!
Of course you always carry relevant maps of the area you are travelling, and a compass.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:11

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:11
It all comes down to the situation, location, skill level, data reliability etc.

Anyone who relies soley on paper maps of an area is a danger to themselves and others :)

Many printed maps are becoming out of date, eg quite a few Qld maps are from 1972+ with selective updating. At least those using digital technology are supporting the updating of data to some degree.

The same agruement can be said of paper maps with the loss of a map (due to windy conditions etc) can render your navigation ability useless. Years ago, whilst doing a solo packwalk in Southern Tasmania my map was caught on thick scrub and lost.....fortunately i had the tracknotes book to back up my navigation skills.

It all comes down to the situation, location, skill level, data reliability etc.

For reference, we use paper printouts of maps (Google Earth, 1:25000 digital topo maps etc) combined with contour and cadastral data of our area of interest when conducting searches for lost persons. We also use GPSr's with specific mapsets developed for these searches. (using our own datasets).

No one technique should be relied upon solely, and we encourage people to adopt all technologies.

Andrew
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Reply By: Rip64 - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:50

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:50
As funny as it seems I have a lap-top case full of "paper Maps"
I love to pull out a map and instantly be there, I also must admit that I try to purchase maps of areas and travel where ever and when ever we go.
I reckon a GOOD map is hard to beat, both for info and memories
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Reply By: mikehzz - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:51

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 18:51
hello Mark,

I use a notebook, bluetooth gps, oziexplorer and hema maps and think they are all great, but I carry paper maps as well. There are so many things that can go wrong with all the electronic gizmos and they can stuff you up good.
The paper maps are good for years and don't require any complicated procedures, maintenance, power etc. In short they are my solid, reliable and almost foolproof back up.
Having said that, I reckon the gizmo's are so much more fun that I would never go back to the old way as my primary method. Also, at my age, I like being able to zoom in and magnify the words and roads so I can actually see where I am :-)
On my last trip to the centre, windows spat the dummy and the gps lost its fix so the paper maps really helped at a track intersection I was sitting at....they all came good again after I gave them a good reboot.

Cheers,
Mike
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Reply By: George_M - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:18

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:18
I still use hardcopy maps, some of which I print out from the internet on A3 paper. I also have a very, very, old 12ch GPS which I use for the occasional checking of Lat & Long.

When on the road I use a PDA for email, internet surfing and internet banking, so I can't see myself upgrading to more sophisticated GPS mapping technology any time soon - unless I can get hold of my son's notebook PC when he finishes school this year:-)

George
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:41

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:41
Gday George
I use paper maps , but havent a clue as how to read them..As you well know....
Murray
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Follow Up By: George_M - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:36

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:36
Ahh yes Murray - the trip to the Avon River.

Starting out in the wrong town didn't help, but it was a good trip and we probably gave the locals a good laugh!! I wonder how a GPS-based moving map display would have handled that one:-)

Let us know when you and Wes want to do it again..

George

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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:22

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:22
George
Wes and I have been to Huggets Crossing useing the Navman. It works pretty good.
I'll let you know next time as there is a new chap to Australia that wants to go for a night as well.
I think that he is very game to travel with little Wes and I.
Soon i hope.Possibly at christmas or there abouts.
Murray
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:35

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:35
I don't have an electronic navigator yet, but when I do, I'll still have some paper map references for sure - I can easily envisage that at times, having a look at a broad view of a region or even a state etc. will be handy, even thouh that relatively tiny screen on the dash will still have it's own application. Can't see me ever using a laptop for navigation in the car.
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Reply By: stevesub - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:51

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 19:51
In both the 4WD and boat, we use old fashioned maps/charts/compass BUT with a GPS with maping as a backup. When we are off road in the deserts, etc, we turn the GPS on a couple of times a day to make sure we are where we think we are. In the boat, it is used mainly in bad weather or limited visibility as there are heaps of sand banks and reefs where we go boating and we go away for up to a week at a time in the boat.

We also have a laptop with NextG so call up Google Maps from time to time and also have Tracks4Australia and Shonky maps that we download to the GPS.

No problems with faulty electronics, flat batteries or whatever.

Never had a problem with our way of navigating and maps are cheaper than buying some of the GPS software maps that are out there and no need to have an expensive laptop running all the time in a bumpy (4WD)/wet (BOAT) environment, neither is good for a laptop.

Just call me old fashioned, or just old.

Stevesub
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:13

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:13
This month, I spent 3 weeks out in the desert - Had the old Tosh laptop with a GPS mouse; had a Garmin 2+ GPS (for when I was on foot); and had a Tom Tom running Auslig 250K Mosaic via a freeware program called TTMaps. Oh, and I had paper Hema and Westprint Maps. This was all to do tracks that I knew off the top of my head, but it was good fun!

I've used Oziexplorer for about 7 years now. The electronic maps make you lazy. You don't bother looking for where the sun is, and you stop using the vehicle odometer, and you forget to pack the compass. At least with the paper maps, you use the odometer which tells you pretty reliably where the next turnoff will be.

The two are not mutually exclusive. The paper Westprint and Hema maps are great for trip planning and for laying over the bonnet at morning tea to work out a plan. The computer maps are brilliant for when there are no signposts or you are going offtrack or you awant to be sure where you are and where you are heading.

So I'll continue to take both.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:28

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:28
Yep agree with Phil 100 Percent.

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Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:18

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:18
Still using paper maps and have a compass mounted on the dash together with my urban Tom Tom set to indicate Lat & Long coordinates.

The compass reassures me that I am not going South when it should be North.

The sound is turned down on the Tom Tom so I don't have to put up with a voice telling me to "Turn around when possible" because he has even less idea where he is than I do!

Maybe one day I'll go for a Garmin Nuvi but I don't want a full laptop in the cabin.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:56

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:56
Allan,
You can run the Auslig maps on your Tom Tom. Just download a freeware program called ttMaps - Link to ttMaps here. Then drop the Auslig 250k Mosaic map into the maps folder on your TomTom and you're away. ttMaps simply comes up as an option in the TomTom menu. And it works like Oziexplorer's moving maps - arrow in the centre of the screen telling you where you are and where you're heading. I've given it a workout over 3 weeks of desert trip this month and it works well. Naturally you'll need some free memory in your TomTom - mine had 1 Gig free.
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:49

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:49
Thanks Phil, I'll take a look at that.
But I have retired from a lifetime of technology and am rather enjoying the Simple Life. For now anyway!

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:21

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:21
Still got my old State Forestry Commission paper maps of Northern NSW SE QLD
Their about 20 years old now and are still very accurate.
Been sticky taped along the fold lines and now they live in a piece of 90mm pvc pipe with caps on each end.
Can't afford a GPS atm. :(




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Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:56

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 20:56
I have PDA showing moving maps on OziexplorerCE, and for long trips I have a clear map case with a hard copy map for reference.
The map case lives at the side of my seat and for the Big view it is easier than the PDA

Alan
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Follow Up By: Troopy(SA) - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:13

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:13
I have been using the PDA with Oziexplorer CE for a while, but find I get an intermediate fault where the Ozi software stops working and I need to reinstall....

Bit of a problem when you are miles from home and need to reinstall the software and this is the only map you have.

I can't rely on the PDA because it could stop working at any time so I am going back to the paper maps..
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Reply By: Traveller - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:12

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:12
Yeah..... I use some form of paper maps in conjunction with a PDA running Oziex and 250K Mosaic. Paper maps are usually the commercially printed ones. Started about 7 years ago with a Magellan and a Laptop. Magellan still lives on but Laptop has passed away. I also have Ozie and 250K Mosaic on an mini notebook but not connected to GPS.

Most outback tracks are marked these days. Mapping is only essential when doing Extreme Stuff in Remote places or cross country. In the 1970's we used to use the 50/100/250 Topo maps and they were good (but cumbersome) when looking for isolated places, but the electronic stuff works just as well.

As for the comment 'what if the electronic stuff breaks down?'
Well....just use your nouse and intuition. If you can't use that then you shouldn't be out there :-)

Oh! and I have a Boy Scout Compass as well....just in case.
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Reply By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:31

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:31
Paper charts & compass.

Chartplotter as backup!

In fact - the GPS comes with a written warning - almost the first thing you read after opening the package.

Usually it says words to the effect:-

"this unit should NEVER be used as your primary source of navigation, and should only EVER be used as a backup.

Anyone that advocates GPS & Electronic maps over the old technology - is a danger to themselves and others - avoid travelling with then whether it be by vehicle boat or aircraft.

Nuthing wrong with using the new technology to make life easier - nothing at all - but the fact is - you should already have plotted your course on a paper chart long before you switched the Chartplotter / laptop on.

When the power fails or worse the GPS system itself - all you wil have left is your paper chart and compass.

What good are they if you never learned to navigate by them?.

When the time comes that the latest gadget fails - just how will you get back home again?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:07

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:07
"When the time comes that the latest gadget fails - just how will you get back home again? "

Possibly the same way you would use if that other gadget you use (commonly called a 4WD) failed :) People relay on lots of gadgets. As you mention, prior preparation is the key. Having the right gear, knowing how to use it and its limitations, and being prepared for an emergency is what should be conveyed, not some hoodoo about how, if you’re out in the scrub with a GPS and it happens to stop working, you’re in big trouble – e.g. Just get out the spare GPS you bought along for just this occasion - what’s wrong with that solution?

The disclaimer you mention is a statement against liability - not a warning against using a gps for its intended purpose because they think it’s likely to fail. They just don’t want you ringing them if it does. You will find disclaimers on paper maps as well, typically relating to the currency of the data (as mentioned by Andrew).

More people have got into strife using paper maps and/or compass than have ever got into trouble using a GPS :) Just having a “paper” map and/or a compass is not the total solution to the hypothetical circumstance.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 18:05

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 18:05
[quote]not some hoodoo about how, if you’re out in the scrub with a GPS and it happens to stop working, youre in big trouble e.g. Just get out the spare GPS you bought along for just this occasion - what’s wrong with that solution?[/quote]

Whats wrong with that solution?

God forbid should I ever be unfortunate enough to go anywhere off the beaten track with you - that I have the smarts not to go in the first place.

I can tell you from experience, why your backup plan is one day doomed to fail.

Yet I too carry spare GPS - in case one goes on the fritz. But I also carry the paper chart and compass. You have no business being out there without them.

Do you have the requisite intelligence to learn from the answer to your own question or am I waisting my time explaining it too you?.

This is a lesson I learned from experience about this fancy new technology.

It doesn't always work.

You contend no need for backup chart and compass & that the manufacturers statement about NOT using it for primary navigation is merely a statement against liability.

Facts are - no it isn't, its advice meant to save your life from navigational mistakes in the GPS system.

They are rare, but they do occur - I can recall 3 of them so far in my experience so far.

In order to be a professional skipper licensed to take plebs like you out to sea and return, as a paying fare I had to pass navigation.

One of the things they teach you - is why that statement on the equipment isn't just some manufacturers liability statement and why it is put there to stop people exactly like yourself from making serious mistakes of judgment.

GPS relies on several things, including your handset or receiver.

If one goes on the fritz sure grab another spare, but what about when it isn;t the hand set that's faulty?

What about when you can't get a signal?

Say under temperate rain forest canopy with more than 90% canopy cover?..what good is that spare GPS then?

A compass will still work tho - and a map n compass might save your sorry butt!

What if your in a cave - same thing, map of the cave and a compass and a flashlight and hard hat and caving gear and your good to go - or in your case stand there with two perfectly useless GPS handsets and hope someone with more knowledge that you comes saves your sorry hairy butt!

What if, one of the NASA technicians, who looks after satellites has to "re boot" the computer aboard a satellite, after updating its software?

What if when he does he makes a human error and - forgets to re set the clock - or sets it to his local time rather than UTC time etc.
People are human people make mistakes it has happened before today!

It's called a simple clock time error.
What effect does it have?

Well on a satellite, the satellite has to know were it is in space in relation to points on earth but ALSO, WHEN it is, in space, in order to know WHERE.

With a simple clock time error a satellite incorrectly reports its position in space - and that incorrect data when it is calculated by your handset, can triangulate your position, depending on the number of satellites in view at any given time, anything up to 200 nautical miles out - as happened to Australian aviation some years back - where commercial passenger jets were displaying their position as 200 Nmiles off the east coast over the pacific ocean - while the pilots could clearly see the coast as they made their approaches to Sydney Airport.

Why weren't they off track and out over the ocean due to the clock time error on a satellite?

Because like me, - as a qualified navigator - they file a flight plan and plot it manually on the charts and maintain a check with bearings and compass etc as their PRIMARY source of navigation - while their GPS is only a backup to confirm what they already know.

Thats why they don't let YOU fly those jumbo's, its safer for all concerned if someone who actually knows how to navigate is at the controls.

Using your logic any idiot with 2 GPS can navigate a plane!

When else doesn't the GPS system work.

1. When the mainland USA is under attack (9/11).

2. When the USA is going to War against another nation (Gulf War 1).

It so happens I was studying navigation as part of my skippers course in 2001, and it started in late August and went thru too about the 3rd week in Sept.

I happened to have bought a Garmin etrex summit waterproof mountaineering GPS, with altimeter, barometer and the works in it.

It was neat - I could check my manual paper chart routes, against GPS route data, to confirm I'd got it right with my position plots bearings etc and I had a backup.

No one else at the course had one including the instructor, we all got to have a play with it.

I knew from past experience with a GPS during Gulf War 1 and ol Stormin' Normin Swartzkopf, that the Yanks play with their satellite data when they are going to war, a story I'll relate next.

I lived and worked as a charter fishing guide in the southwest and used the GPS on the rivers down south and had my own farm down there marked as a way point.

I was staying in Perth at my mothers place while undergoing the course in Sept 2001. I had her place marked as a way point.

I had been away before hand up north to shark bay and dirk hartog island etc with a group of guys fishing & had way points on Dirk Hartog Island marked also.

The GPS had an electronic flux gate compass in it also.

While at the course we could do fun things with the GPS like - fix our position and plot a course to say Dirk Hartog Island, press the menu "Go To" and it would point the directional arrow north and give the distance left to go to get there.

Likewise I could plot a course to Nannup - where we lived or the Donnelly river for some of my fishing spots, press "go to" - and that directional arrow would point south (from our position in Perth) and give the remaining distance.

You realize how fantastic that is when you've been in class all day poring over charts with compass and parallel rule, dividers etc and plotting courses on charts manually taking magnetic bearings and converting the to true readings to plot on the chart etc..

A GPS really is appreciated when you do all that manually with chart and compass - because it does it in only seconds, what takes perhaps 20 minutes manually.

So..

That night of 9/11 (Sept 11 2001) I've been up late finishing my charting homework for tomorrows course and the plane fly's into the WTC tower on the late TV news! Mum comes and gets me and says - you have to see this, it's unbelievable - there's been some terrible accident and a planes flown into a skyscraper in New York - its on the telly!

So I am watching the reports and replay of the footage etc - when lo and behold a 2nd plane flys into the 2nd WTC tower.

Well - I'm no ones fool - and start thinking - "this is no accident - I wonder what the Yanks are doing in response now - will they loose a nuke at someone?"

The I remember the Etrex summit GPS in my pocket!

I think back to my experience during Gulf War 1, (next story) and how when I mentioned it to people after the fact, they laughed and said I musta imagined it - & wouldn't believe me!

So I go outside and turn on the GPS!

No problem - I can find where I am. I'm at the waypoint for mums place in Perth OK!

Like during the day, I picked a way point up north on Dirk Hartog Island and press "go to"!

The direction needle is pointing due SOUTH (like to Nannup where I live) and giving me about the right distance for Dirk Hartog Island, but 180 degrees the wrong direction.

I figure that's mighty weird - but it's what I suspected because it reflected my experience offshore during the Gulf War 1 invasion.

To check it out - I did another go to - only this time the way point was my farm 300 kms south of us! I press "go to" and NOW the needles pointing due NORTH (to Dirk Hartog Island - not SOUTH to Nannup where I lived), BUT the distance displayed is about right for the Farm in Nannup at about 300 km's!

So I "proved to myself" that the Yanks can reverse readings from their GPS satellites by 180 degrees when they consider themselves under attack. It stops any other power from using GPS guided munitions against them.

Their own military have a built in correction factor for their ships planes and munitions that automatically "corrects for the deliberately altered GPS signals".

The 180 degree reversal - would send GPS guided munitions in the opposite direction from that intended by the attacker while US launched guided munitions planes and ships etc - would automatically correct for it.

Now back to Gulf War 1 where the first occasion of me seeing this phenomena at work occurred.

I forget what year it was, but it was well before 9/11 and before Gulf War 2 with Colin Powell, it was Gulf War 1 under Stormin Normal Swartzkopf.

Mate a mine had a 19 ft glass boat with a GPS on board and invited me out fishing off the south west coast at Hamelin bay!

GPS was only new back then I'd never seen one much less one on a boat with moving charts etc

No problem away we go.

He sets up the GPS and all is well - we get out Westward past Hamelin island and head south - towards Augusta keeping the south west cape on our left (to our east).

The GPS shows us doing just that!

We get to a fishing spot, found on the sounder and drift for a few hours catching the odd fish and listening to the music on the radio.

That's when the news broadcast that the Yanks had invaded Iraq for the first time, kicking Saddams troops outta kuwait eventually!

Yeah so? I'm fishing off the southwest of WA - like I could care less what the yanks are doing half a world away!

It's now after lunch sea breeze building - time to go home.

Bit trickier getting home, the sun glare off the water and a few reefs we threaded our way out thru, near Hamelin island on the way out, make it a bit harder getting back, than getting out there in the morning with the sun behind us and water clear so we can easily see those reefs etc.

No problem says the skip - we will just follow our mornings trail/ route on the GPS back to the boat ramp!

So - turn it on and yes it finds our position but there was a much longer time delay getting a fix than on the way out!

We now have the SW Cape visible still on our Right this time (i.e still to our east by the compass) and away we go - headed back north towards HAMELIN ISLAND - where we launched from the Hamelin Bay ramp that morning.

Mate says to me - hey look at this?

I look at his chart plotter GPS, and there's our route from this morning - only we aren't following it at all. According to the chart - we are headed due south towards Antarctica - according to the GPS and the breadcrumb trail we are leaving on the chart!

That's weird I say - the compass shows us headed north, we know the land is on our right or by the compass to the east of us as it should be & I can see Hamelin island ahead of us where it should be to our north - why is the GPS chart plotter showing us headed to Antarctica?.

Skipper is scratching his head and admits he doesn't know why. he's never seen it do that before.

So I steer north towards the island we came from that morning, while the mate fiddles with his GPS chart plotter. He tried everything - turning it off - turning it on again, to get a new fix - then call up the mornings route that he saved and sure enough according to the chart and GPS we are headed south past Augusta towards Antarctica - if the GPS and electronic chart are to be believed - while I am steering north via the compass and my land bearings on the Island & the land is where it should be to the east of us.

Then he posed me the question.

"I was planning to run 30 miles off the coast this morning out of sight of land - I only took us here in sight of land because it was less fuel and shorter trip home if the sea breeze kicked up early which it did!"

"What would we have done IF we were out of sight of land - and the GPS had told us to turn around and go the other way?"

He reckoned he would have followed the GPS coz that's what he always does. Had we done so, we'd have run out of fuel somewhere in the southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica!

I on the other hand rationalized that I'd have steered North east by the compass (opposite to our southwesterly track in the morning) - until we saw land (Australia) and a land mark we recognized to get our correct bearings.

We agreed my plan was the better one - because anything (including the yanks messing with their satellites) could have put the GPS chart plotter on the fritz, while it would have taken a global pole reversal to mess with the compass by 180 degrees!

We got home - but it was my first lesson never to fully trust GPS!

The warnings are on the box about only ever using your GPS as a "backup" for very sound reason. If you have ANY reason for ANY moment not to trust your GPS by what your eyes are telling you - then for goodness sakes - take a moment and check it with the compass - the sun or stars if you have too.

Facts are you can't always trust a GPS.

I've given 3 real world examples of why not.

I have a similar real life tale about when our 2 satellite phones stopped working for 4 days over easter one year we were offshore at the Houtman Abrolhos Islands - if anyone's interested. (It wasn't the handsets AND it wasn't the satellites either).

Just like you can't rely on your GPS for your primary navigation tool, - you also can't rely on satellite phones as your ONLY emergency rescue tool - maybe carry a personal locator beacon and a HF radio as well.

As for keeping maps and charts up to date that's the mariners (navigators) responsibility, in the case of marine charts there are notices to mariners issued as alterations occur and it's the chart owners responsibility to note these and keep the chart up to date.

The same onus rests on Map users.

Now - do i need to go into the differences between northern and southern hemisphere compensated compasses for anyone?

Did anyone learn anything?

Was it just a waste of my time and effort - as I suspect?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:42

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:42
Sorry - maybe I should have clarified - didn’t say carrying a compass and a map was not a good forward or back up plan. Just wondered why if a GPS was Ok in the first instance ...and then it broke...why a substitute wouldn’t be an adequate back up. I think you may have read a bit too much into what I said. Again sorry for wasting your time.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: mowing - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:57

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:57
I will say one thing for you Flywest, your replies are always comprehensive!!
Thanks for relying to my thread, much appreciated.

Cheers

Mark
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Follow Up By: mowing - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:59

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 19:59
that should be replying not relying (where is a "p" when you want one)
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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:07

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:07
Mark

I don't as I'm the drive, but Robyn the navigator still uses them ever sheet or book, we have the NavNet to show us where we are. But the hard copy is a must for her to give out the info I demand.. LOL.

She can see things, plain things, give eta's We always try to use the same maps, as in the some hard copy as software.

Cheers

Richard
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Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:19

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:19
I use paper maps for trip planning and use them for navigating in conjunction with the GPS. Paper map is main one. I don't use GPS for 'telling me where to go', but for telling me where i am.

Motherhen
Motherhen

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AnswerID: 381368

Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 08:43

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 08:43
MH
I dont have a map or gps, but even I know your near Longreach looking for someone to fit your brake magnets. Call it ESP, LOL
Colin.
0
FollowupID: 648847

Reply By: Buggerlux - Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:22

Monday, Aug 31, 2009 at 22:22
[i]There are so many things that can go wrong with all the electronic gizmos and they can stuff you up good. [/i]

This is the irony though. No one considers what happens when the hard copy map is damaged. The universe born us with 2 of many things for more reason than one.

If you are heading into an area that is difficult to navigate with just a compass then obviously a couple of options are a wise thing.
AnswerID: 381369

Reply By: stevesub - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 07:44

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 07:44
Several boats have hit a new rock wall at the entrance to Brisbane River recently (at night) because they were using the GPS as their only form of navigation - only problem was, I mentioned NEW rock wall that was not on their GPS. The last boat was a $100K+ sports cruiser that ended up on top of the wall a couple of weeks a go, totally written off.

(paper charts would not have been updated as well)

Now if they used their old fashioned eyeballs that God gave them, they would not have put themselves in that situation - idiots for relying 100% on technology.

Stevesub
AnswerID: 381386

Reply By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:24

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:24
Mowing
I don't need any of that stuff, no way, everyone tells me where to go, too easy.
Colin.
AnswerID: 381396

Reply By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 12:01

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 12:01
Hardcopy map to be able to see where you started / where you are / and where you are going / terrain style and other points of interest - at a glance.

Tiny little digital screen only shows where you - at a glance ... but is good for confirming that with a hardcopy.
AnswerID: 381418

Reply By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 16:25

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 16:25
I love maps, paper and electronic. I can sit and study them for hours it is amazing what you can learn by spending some time looking at a good map.

I finally got the opportunity to travel along Googs Track at Easter. Obviously we took a bit of a scenic route to get there and back and I had the GPS plugged in all the way. I don't have any maps, other than the streets it came with, loaded on it but it does show the main roads and my position.

I bought up to date paper maps for the SA part of the trip and returned home with them still in the plastic bag. I just drove and went the way I knew from having spent so much time on trip planning before I left home. Obviously that would be harder to do on a longer trip.

One of my favourite maps is an early 60's map of the Burragorang Valley, before it was flooded by the building of Waragamba Dam. It's hard to get that sort of thing on digital maps.

Duncs
AnswerID: 381455

Reply By: mowing - Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 20:02

Tuesday, Sep 01, 2009 at 20:02
Thanks everyone for the response, it was really interesting to see what people are using as their main means of navigation.

Safe travels

Mark
AnswerID: 381506

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