Petrol v Diesel Four Wheel Drives

As do I, (go bush) but go the petty. 1500km+ range so who wants a gutless diesel?

(this is gonna hurt)

Cheers
Dave

Yes do go bush and usually with an off road van.
4.2td Patrol oiler of course however with the cost difference between the oil burners fuel and the petrol job the economy of the oiler is waning.

However personally I still prefer the oiler.
Have a mate who also tows with a 4.5ltr Patrol same model as mine and the cost of fill ups is almost the same when east of Broken Hill when inland mine wins easily. As his also runs on gas.

G/Day Stephen

There are Horses for Courses, as you know Diesel Vehicles are more expensive to buy and have Serviced or Repaired, I know they are more economical in most cases, but all us Diesel Owners remember when we were all paying a lot more for Diesel than Petrol owners, and that time will come in the future again, the costs will equal them selves out over several year if you hold on to the same vehicle.

Cheers

The main issue is that most of us also use our 4B as a daily driver. We spend most of our time on the blacktop where PETROL (and LPG) stations are plentiful :-) so we have no need of the extended range capability of a lower powered more expensive diesel. For the odd trip that needs it we use jerrycans.

I'd suggest the majority on this forum fall into this category.

G'day Stephen
No arguments that diesel goes further.
But I own a petrol - have had 3 petrol and 1 diesel (non turbo).
All have gone bush and I'm a 4WD club so plenty of dirt is travelled.
Being a one car family living in the burbs, the petrol is a much easier vehicle to live with (IMOOC)
When I was looking to upgrade the 80 (petrol) to 100 recently I ended up with a petrol mainly due to cost and availability. There were bugger all turbo diesels - and I wouldn't buy a non-turbo diesel again. And when I did spot one it had heaps of Kms and lots of $s on it. Easily saved $15K - and that buys me a lot of petrol.
Safety - never had a petrol vehicle explode on me!
So owning a petrol is not about being a hoon as you appear to imply. Other factors come into play.
You're happy with diesel and I'm happy with petrol. So be it.
It's a bit like arguments on Toyota v Nissan or Coopers v BFGs or Engel v Waeco etc etc. There is no right and no wrong. We all have to make choices.
Cheers from the Moose

I know it's only been 1/2 an hour at this point but the petrols are winning.....maybe the slow diesels are still getting to work to log on...lol

(I'm gunna cop it again)

Cheers
Dave

I own a diesel and it is my second one to date.As far as im concerned i dont give a rats behind who drives what,its personal preference is'nt it !!!

HaHaHa Petrol 4wd. Nope sorry, honestly forgive me but, no i cant say it. Its hurting too much, i just cant stop laughing.

I know, i know its each to there own. And with the amount of crap they are putting on each vehicle these days it makes Diesels just as prone to breakdowns as Petrols. And they say that they are getting high k's out of Petrols these days also. But, myself unless it has 8 cylinders i dont wanna know a petrol. When in the bush i love the sound of that Diesel rattle.

But there is a huge price difference i must admit, but with smaller cars now packing diesel engines, i know which way the world is turning.

Diesel and Manual for me, Maybe Petrol and Auto for you.

BUT, if my car was for serious playing and thrashing then it would be a Petrol 80 series, with a turbocharger. And boy would i have some fun.Just like this one

Hi all,

I try to get bush in my diesel rodeo as often as I can, But even for work I've got a Pajero diesel and I do most of my travelling on dirt roads thru Eastern Oz(60% dirt 40 % tar).

IMHO, I believe that diesels tend to want to make the wheels turn whilst petrols want to make the wheels spin.

The obvious advantage of this is a diesel will find grip whilst a petrol will spin the wheels

Acceleration doesn't come into the equation for me. My rodeo will do 0-100 in about 15 mins and that does me just fine. If I wanted a summernat car I certainly wouldn't be looking at a 4x4.

In fact I have to laugh when I see petrol 4x4's in Sydney with 19" mags and low profile tyres.

Hate to say it Stephen, but I think your comment is a bit stupid. I have a 200 Series GXL Cruiser & a T/D 60 series Sahara, but I have better things I would like to contribute to the Forum than talking rubbish & inciting a flame war. Obviously your first 4'by. Might surprise you also that on a lot of properties that I Hog Hunt on the cockies usually have Petrol Sahara Cruisers or Petrol 4.8 TI Patrols as their town runabout. The work utes being Dieso. It all comes down to choice in this society & that's why you have a Dieso Prado & I have a Petrol & Dieso Cruiser. As for going Bush with you I would love to, might be able to teach you a few tricks on how to operate your vehicle eh ! Over & Out VKS !

Now Stephen , apart from the fun factor, its not fair to argue the case with a pre-defined condition that favours one over the offer.
E.G. Playing on the fact that diesel delivers 1/3rd more range than petrol.

Otherwise the arguement is already over and Petrols win hands down because thats what the consumer buys.
I.E. I have redefined the condition to "what is most popular 4wd type".

Or if you like, lowest cost 4wd thru Victorian tracks , here gas will win.


You can only come to a conclusion based on the goods being fit for the purpose.

This pre-supposes the purpose.


If you define the purpose as long range touring in the outback, and it doesn't matter if you bypass the toughest stuff , then a diesel has an advantage upfront, but not necessarily a winning advantage.

If you define the objective as being the best 4wd through hard country like the tracks in my previous Hummer post then their is a different outcome.

So what is the discussion really about -> in your post, diesel wins in the outback !

If so please answer this question honestly.

If I have two similar vehicles side by side ready to tackle a 1000km track with
no fuel availability and no outside help.

Which would you take ?








Oh by the way the cars are, my 4800 petrol Patrol , and a similar age 3lt diesel Nissan Patrol.

In reality buying a new 4WD, if you buy a petrol today and go to trade it in a few years down the track you will not get a good deal. Resale for the diesel these days is heaps better, so you have to look at what it is doing to your back pocket.
Me well don't do much off roading as I use to, but we have 2 TDs nearly the same vehicles, but are pre CRDs and with 250Ks and 210Ks on both I am happy with performance and economy and running costs. Plus I can rebuild my motors for around $4K including labour.

G'day Stephen

Out of 102 vehicles over a 48 year span I have only had 2 diesels...both Nissan 4x4's. Both have given me exceptional service in the time I have used them. Still running my old 4.2 non turbo oiler now sitting at 392,000km now (just run in, someone said...lol)

In the early years I had a lot of strife with petrol cars and 4bies. Mainly when it came to tuning. This was in the era before fuel injection. But I managed to travel to lots of Out of the Way places such as Helena Spring in the Great Sandy Desert and the whole of the CSR and North/South, cross country across the Simpson Desert and other places in the Gibson Desert. Just had to make enough space to carry the required fuel.

My only concern with a diesel is, and especially in a remote situation, that if both the batteries go flat I have a problem ! With a petrol vehicle one can spin a wheel and get it started :-) Now I dunno if that is applicable to a fuel injected engine!

We do have a 'modern' petrol car in out stable namely a Nissan Xtrail 2003 which has performed faultlessly up to now. And does it have some grunt for such a little engine! :-)

My next bush vehicle, if I ever buy a nother one, will be bought on price and not wether its diesel or petrol. Diesel however is more readily available in remote locations but petrol availabilty is almost as good and can even be bought at KMart (Kunawarritji) on the CSR :-)

Cheers

I haven’t got any facts or figures to contribute to this discussion but heres my two cents worth.

I’ve grown up with diesel motors and my old man telling me just about everyday, ‘treat em right and they’ll go forever’ Seems that if this is applied, it certainly shows through. Now I don’t know much about these newer common rail diesels but the traditional were my favourite for example the 2.8D hilux. Yep as most of you know its bloody slow, but you appreciate it over time, and the vehicle itself sort of becomes part of the atmosphere of heading bush, chugging along, changing gears on the hill climb etc. For me the official start of my trip doesn’t begin until I put my finger down on the glow plug button. Sure it doesn’t get you from A to B in a rush, but for myself that part in-between in equally just as important as the rest. I do a lot of trips, in fact every weekend I am out on an expedition, and I wouldn’t be able to if my fuel consumption was in the higher teens. For me that fuel efficiency is where the diesel really pays off.

Also as mentioned above, in many places up north here, you wont find much petrol, most stations only supply diesel. I wouldn’t feel to comfortable transporting petrol with me.


Cheers all,
Tommo

Have a Petrol of my own and drive diesels as work vehicles. The only time i wish i owned a diesel is whilst towing. I love my petrol and use it for what it was meant for. My next car will be petrol once again.

Cheers
Dave

Ok I will bite and enter the argument
Having owned a 60 series and a 75 both diesel and 2 petrol 80 series I will take the petrol anytime
as far as longitivity of the motors the petrols have proven to be as good os the diesels with 400K+ out of both types of engines
the diesels were old tech and definitely cost heapsd more in service costs. hell on some of the trips the diesels would need a service before we actually got into 4wd country.
the 75 is a farm truck and at 20 years old has a whole 160k on the clock although most is low range work . truck has no guts shakes rattles and rolls on blacktop and wouldnt tow a box trailer full of firewood but it is afarm truck and therefore diesel.a big trip is 25 kmaround the paddocks and hills and it wouldnt do 1000 km per year on the blacktop.
the 60 series was a diesel because when i didnt know better i believed that places like the cape and kimberly and the gunbarrel were remote and petrol(ulp) was hard to get.over the years I have learnt much differently.
I have found there is ample unleaded fuel available and avgas is always a fall back. In fact the only time I found unleaded unavailable was at bamaga in 99 although it was availabe at Seisa and on the great central road pre opal but we just used avgas. The diesel only availabilty argument is a bit of a furphy from my experience.
after trips to the cape and the gulf I purchased an 80 series in petrol after doing the whole of life costings.(the premium on purchasing a diesel especially a turbo sees break even periods of over 10 years)
still fuel consumption was high and i needed to carry jerry cans for anything over 600km in the rough. a nuisence at times but you could still drive across the simpson on a std tank.

when I replaced that vehicle it was with another 80 series petrol
but this one had a long range tank fitted and I must admit have never been concerned about fuel availability since.I can bank on 1000 km towing off road .
and over 1200 not towing without the need to carry jerry cans which is no problem as the petrol vehicle easily tows the camper which has the space and capability to carry additional fuel if needed.

yes a naturally aspirated diesel will take you anywhere and a long way on a tank of fuel but the petrol will go the same places much easier and quicker and while the fuel bill will be a bit more the cost of ownership will most likely be less with the petrol.
regards
Howard

For me it has to be Diesel simple reason is the Fire Hazard from dry grass.
Prior to ULP and catalytic Hot Boxs petrol was usable with caution. Haven't heard of any safe options from todays petrols.

"Head bush and count how many station of farm vehicles are Petrol, less than 1%."
Stephen this has almost nothing to do with the mechanics of vehicles.
It is a direct result of the FEDERAL TAX SYSTEM.
The on farm diesel fuel rebate extended to 4 wheel drives used to travel for farm business anywhere.
You get no rebate for petrol.

Hi Stepen

I just noticed your reference to a WRX , but no one certainly not me has argued for a power machine , its all about adequate power for the job.

Even my 10 sec to 100kmh GU is pretty slow compared a commodore family sedan, and I have always used the figure of 16sec approx to 100kmh as being adequate.

The problem is that we have a whole range of hopelessly slow diesels that are a danger to themselves and others on the open road let alone when they put a van on the back.

These cars may trundle over an outback road , but do not have the ability to generate enough momentum to get up the more difficult hills , let alone react to an unusal situation as its presents.

Fortunatlely companies like toyota have realised this and no longer make such vehicles , and all there cars now have adequate performance.

What a change a decade has made !

This is a simple answer - Diesel

Anyone who says petrol just doesn't know their stuff... Or drives a 3L diesel Patrol

I just do beach camping, Teewah, Fraser, Moreton etc.

I had a 4 cyclinder petrol - woeful, got bogged all the time irrespective of tyre pressure.

Then I got a 6 cylinder petrol with 130KW and 300nm torque, still go bogged, but able to get out more easily than the last one. Sometimes spun sideways, fun bogan stuff.

Now i drive a 72kw diesel with about 200nm of torque, but you know what, I have never been able to bog it, the wheels just keep turning and moving, no spinning and digging. Admittedly the front and rear detroit tru tracs probably help a lot.

In the petrol if I flogged it the consumption went through the roof, with the diesel, not matter what i do it's always 9 - 10l/1000km.

Unless I tow, that'll do me.

Have 4 diesels 3, 4x4 if had petrol vehicles in my work would have to have CFS coming behind me to put out the fires in stubble paddocks
Cheers
Charlie

Diesel for me Stephen, the only thing I but Petrol in these days is Robyn's lawn mower :-)

Hi Stephen, It is all compromise and what the owner is happy with. There is no right or wrong, with the diesel/petrol argument in with the Nissan/toyota, fridge, tyre debate.

Cheers


Mark

Have had both, prefer the diesel.
A friend rolled a vehicle in the Kimberly, the hospital doctor said 'lucky it was a diesel'. It seems they have seen a number of burns victims as a result of fires following accidents. I dont have factual details so can not verify.

I have a Nissan Pathfinder 3.3litre V6 petrol and a Freelander 2 TD4 2.2 litre diesel. The diesel is a better car in every way. The Freelander 2 replaced a Subaru Outback 3 litre V6 180Kw and again the FL2 is streets ahead which I didn't believe would be possible. It uses way less fuel and has 400nm of really smooth torque. It feels like it could tow the Queen Mary. I reckon the Japs have given diesels a bad name. Even now the new Suzuki's and Xtrail diesels can only come up with around 300nm torque from a 2 litre motor. Are they doing this on purpose? The new Sorento from Korea manages 430nm from 2.2 litres.
Its environmentally irresponsible to require 15+ litres/100km to get enough power to budge the bigger forbies. The new Pajero gets good numbers. I believe that those with a bias against diesels have been bitten by poorly performing machines. I've driven a V6 diesel Disco 3 and it gets near 10l/100 km's. You couldn't want for much better performance and its a heavy car.

Mike

sorry flat 6 for the Subaru

The whole thread a waste of cyberspace.

Phew !!!! is that the END of the discussions :)

Thanks for the entertainment of this post, I look forward to your posts Stephen & past help so as an owner of a petrol Soft Roader I won't comment lol.

Does that mean that diesels 1 petrols 0.


lol sorry had to do that.

Cheers Wilko

I've been around this forum for about six years and this old chestnut pops up from time to time. The debate rarely varies and of course both sides always present some valid and some outrageous arguments.

The truth of the matter is that both types of engine have their place. If you sit down and logically assess which serves your location, budget, driving needs, economy (in $ per km, not L per km) etc you will make the right choice.

But as long as my Bum points at the ground I'll never understand why some people seem to become emotionally attached to either. When all is said and done it's a matter of propulsion.

Jim.

I have to add a Final, well lets hope its a final to this at times laughable Post.

Stephen only asked about EO doing a Poll, so hopefully I have solved it all, here is my next vehicle. And Dam it had to be a Toyota LMAO

New Rig

I always thought diesels were more reliable than petrol, until CRD came along.
All it takes now is a bit of water in the tank to get to the injectors and you are in big (expensive ) trouble.
So where does that leave us? (at $1500 a pop for injectors)

Hi Stephen, firstly merry xmas to you and your family and hope you travel safe, well you will be safe your in a diesel, (sorry lol). Well I can comment here. I have had diesel, petrol, LPG, and turbo diesel. Firstly would never buy another non turbo diesel again, (had old 2.8D hilux) while great off road, no reliability issues, it was painfully slow especially when towing camper, next was the 3.4L V6 prado, while a good vehicle, it drank like a goldfish, around 16/17L per 100 round town, best freeway driving was 12.2L per 100, while it didnt bother me at first as we sold the wifes commodore and bought her a new Toyota Yaris sedan to buzz about in when petrol hit $1.75/1.80 it started to really bite the hip pocket so enter LPG conversion, biggest mistake I made, drank 22/23L per 100 (round town) with only 59L useable was around 250k and it was empty, put it in low range or on Stockton beach and you were lucky to get 100k out of the tank (28/30L per 100), that then left you with a 90L main of petrol, so take this scenario through the middle of aus some where and I was going to be running out of juice really quick, Now have exact same vehicle but T/D, while not as economical as I thought it would be, still happy with it. Around 13L per 100 round town, best freeway driving 10.2L per 100 and this is punching it along at 120/130, towing around 12/13. Heaps more talk then the petrol, 303 verus 343 nm, while not a huge diff on paper certainly is noticable when towing and pottering around the tracks. No it wont take off like Robins patrol, and probably still not as cheap to run as his patrol (LPG) If I had the $$ to spare I wouldnt hesitate buying a new 200 series cruiser in T/D form less then 10L per 100 open road, brilliant for the size of vehicle and the power they have. So my choice is diesel, but thats for me, everyone to there own. I think if you do a lot of heavy towing then td is the only way to go. My uncle use to have 80 petrol 4.5L series towing 22 foot van, anything up to 28L per 100, now has 100 series TD and uses around the 15L per 100 towing. Each to their own and I know if I was to sell my prado I will have no prblems selling it, See how many T/D 01 prado grande's compared to petrols !!! Im happy with my decision. Regards Steve M

Well Stephen, what can I say....

I've never been a fisherman.

But, if I ever decide to take up the sport, I know who I'll be going to see to learn how to cast a good line!!!

Brilliant....you've brought all the wally's out of the cupboard.

FWIW, I'm with you...diesel is the only vehicle type to take on a remote trip (IMHO). I don't feel disposed to explaining myself more than that...I think the diesel brigade (above) have said it all as well as I could.

Cheers mate

Roachie

Hi All
Well this has well and truly been a lot more that I thought it would be. Thanks for all your great responses and taking the time to read the replies, it is such a big and time consuming job.

All the Best to all who watch and view the Best site in Australia. Hope to see you in the bush one day with what ever vehicle you drive. We have the best country and deserts in the world, so start planning your next Bush Adventure.

Regards to All.

Stephen

Other benefit of diesel is lower fire risk. Petrol vehicles have a higher exhaust gas temperature hence a higher temperature around the exhaust pipe etc. They have a greater risk of causing fires when driven through long grass, or from picking up spinifex.

For example there has been problems over the last few years where DPI's in various states have tried to issue petrol 4x4's to there staff to cut costs. This has resulted in a number of fires being started in farmers fields where the DPI staff where working, resulting in farmers banning petrol vehicles from the fields.

Of course the final advantage is that diesel is also safer to carry than petrol.

I havent bothered owning a diesel 4wd for personal use since the day they started NEEDING a battery to operate .... The whole benefit of the engine for me was never needing to worry about solo travelling and battery / electrical issues.

A fairly static fuel usuage (mpg) whether empty or loaded .... and back in the day - availability of fuel from property owners were other good points.

Today, with the stupidity of making a dependable clunker oiler engine into a race engine for round town yuppies means ... in my mind ... that one may as well buy a petrol engine and stress out daily, wondering what electronic component is going to leave you stranded in the boonies next month ..... without the added, initial purchase cost of a diesel engine in a new vehicle or overpriced diesel fuel.

But its Horses for Courses - People ..... Look at your ACTUAL vehicle requirements and buy what suits your needs ...... Fuel economy / petrol or diesel is a two edged sword.