Camping on pastoralist's land

If I’m reading your post correctly (and tell me so if I’m wrong), what right do you have to enter a man’s land without permission?

To me that’s the height of disrespect.

It doesn’t matter if it’s freehold or lease. It’s no wonder that cattle stations are closing down access to their properties when these attitudes prevail.

Nobody has a god given right to do whatever they please.

If you want to camp on a property, do the right thing and ask permission. All it takes is a knock on the door.

I know a few hard nosed blokes up in that area, and your damn lucky you did'nt get a shot gun stuffed up the rear passage.

Hi Rick

I cannot answer your question, but make the comment that in WA although the pastoral land is lease hold, it is still required to seek the lessee's permission to camp (no different to if you rent a house - you are in control). In practice however, it is not always easy to find the managers or in a lot of cases even to know which station you are passing through. I think road reserve is to 30 metres and it is acceptable to camp within this, however we have gone further away from the road for a quiet night when passing through stations. Apart from tyre marks, no evidence is left. Some stations are signed on entry 'no camping' and we do not stop on these.

The only time a landowner has ever approached us was in Queensland somewhere to the south of Emerald. We were looking for somewhere to stop, and followed a well used wide track through open double gates into a gravel pit. It appeared to be just that - a gravel pit, although we had gone through gates; something we do not normally do. Within minutes, a man with a ute load of dogs came and said we were on his land. I explained why we had made the error and said we would move if he wanted us to but we would be very pleased if he let us stay the night and that our caravan was self contained. What about your campfire? he asked. I explained that we were farmers from WA and did not use a campfire (i was at the time putting the kettle on the gas stove to make a cup of tea). He still looked edgy, so i repeated my request again, and he said he would like us to move. We moved on, and wondered what would we have done if we'd apprehended interstate farmers camped on our land - ask them to dinner of course. I don't believe he was typical of Queenslanders.

Motherhen

"In remoter parts of SA, NT & WA, it is a long established custom to select a campsite & use firewood at one's own discretion. Permission is not sought from the leaseholder(noting that land managers in these regions are not freehold title owners). "
"Custom" does not reflect the legality, certainly in SA IIRC permission is legally required for camping on pastoral land away from designated roads or public access roads. See http://www.saafwdc.asn.au/pastoral/pastoral.htm
Those who "push the envelope" screw it up for the rest of us, its not difficult to get permission.

Rick,
I don't know where you got the "custom" from, but there a many a land holder / lease holder in the NT that would take exception to that, and I don't blame them. The law does not give you the right to camp on anothers property without permission, no matter what state you are in... it is called "trespassing" ...
regards,

At the risk of appearing a bitr polemical, I hold a completely different view (from a WA perspective) to some of the above.

Vast swathes (and I mean really vast) of WA are alienated from the public by agrarian leasehold. Quite often, on huge dodgy leases with marginal economic value and to the ultimate steady degradation of the environment. Check out the sorry history of the Murchison region, or Ord River Station for instance.

Not all lesses are irresponsible, but the state of some WA rangelands over the years has been a disgrace. Leasehold tenure falls under the public's pleasure and it's high time a great stack of it is revoked in the interests of the greater public good.

In any case in many parts of WA it is difficult or impossible to know where you're going to finish up at late afternoon after day's travel. And then, even if you do know what lease you are on, you have no way of contacting the lessees in most cases, even if you knew where the homestead was, which in many cases may be 50 clicks or more from where you are.

There is no way we'll be camping along roadside reservations within clear sight of traffic; too dangerous.

If we can sensibly contact the lessees, for instance when we have a clear itinerary, we do, but if we can't then it's down the station tracks until we're at least out of lines of sight at a minimum.

Cheers.

FYI, the Q'ld govt (DERM) publishes a folded sheet map of >>

Queensland stock routes and water points

one of these lives lives permanently in each of our 2 vehicles ;-)

Here's a PDF showing the Q'ld stock route network >> Site Link
(might take a coupla minutes to load)..

I offer no comment re 'legality' (or otherwise)....

:)

Gday Rick,

The eastern states certainly have more restrictions and it appears to me the cooperation between user groups is not as good.

As far as SA goes, the following document prepared by the FWDSA in 2002 and I believe is still current:
"Public access to pastoral lands in South Australia - facts and responsibilities"

The following DEH document covers the protected areas:
"Recreational Vehicles and Protected Areas in South Australia"

Cheers
Phil

Rick, (& everyone else)
I would like to offer the following to think about:
I am travelling interstate, I am looking to set up camp for the night. I drive past your place... I notice you have a large back yard with access. I drive in and set up camp. I see your BBQ and use it to cook my meal... I use your tap for water and dump my rubbish in your bin.... or worse... I just dig a hole and bury it.. or just dump it... And I haven't even mentioned the word "toilet"... yet..!

How would you feel? What would you do?
Now think about the pastoralist/farmer who has tens or hundreds of campers do this to his land every year. Put yourself in their shoes..
How would you feel?

If you think about it, my example of rocking up to your place is no different than you rocking up to his property.
regards

Hey Rick.
How big is your back yard.
I guess you won't mind too much if I camp there as I pass through, I can assure you I will bury the faeces just out of sight. and might burn the paper, I will carry some of the rubbish out (just enough to make me feel good) the cans and other incombustibles left in the fire that was far bigger than needed to swing a billy and camp oven.we will just leave there along with the smouldering coals.
OK.
Why need to ask for permission??!

As a landholder, albeit in a closer settled area ,I would have no problem allowing campers...if they seek approval first. But it is annoying to find folk have entered your property..lit fires, usually left burning, left their crap & toilet paper, along with all their rubbish...& then left the bloody gate open. I now lock gates to
avoid these pests......oldbaz.

I can appreciate the problem for land owners/lessees. Especially when people camp near waterholes/troughs, leave rubbish, don't leave gates how they found them, leave fires burning, churn up tracks and, unbelievably, shoot holes in tanks and/or kill/maim animals. Far out, is it any wonder we are no longer "welcome" in the bush like we were a few decades ago!

I agree that it is difficult at times to know where you will be at the end of the day and who to contact. And even if I have some idea of what property I am on, I may be some distance from the HS. I also feel as if I am intruding to knock on someone's door whereas I am a lot more comfortable getting on the UHF.

When using PARs, I have found that generally landowners/lessees are v appreciative of a call (on the UHF) and have thanked me for contacting them and readily given their OK after a few searching questions. I also let them know when I am leaving the following morning.

Of course the issue is to know what channel they use - usually a repeater channel - but it would help if these were known more widely. While some lists of repeaters do have station names/channels, there are many who aren't, perhaps understandably, listed.

Regards
Andrew

This thread seems to have drifted way off topic.

"As far as Queensland goes, can anyone state with authority what the situation is?" As I understand the post that is the question you wanted answered the rest was preamble.

Despite all the responses I can not see any light has been shed on this. Perhaps I missed something. I can not help either as to the Queensland situation.

In NSW travellers may rest on public land in "road related areas". They can be given a move on order if they overstay. They cannot camp contrary to signs. The convoluted legalities of this was researched exhaustively as a result of a free camping area issue at Bendemeer north of Tamworth. In finalising the matter the Council indicated people may camp overnight but may be moved on if still there after a few days. The legal position was summarised on the Council business paper. I posted extracts some time ago.

On private land the issue is pretty clear, if it is fenced. But if it is not fenced I wonder where does the road easement end and the private property start?


Flynnie

Just remember that property owners in Queensland have a whole heap of things to deal with such as an over zealous Government forcing things down our necks.

PMAV's and Vegetation Assessments have become a huge burden on farmers and graziers, with red and pink zones highly regulated.

Start collecting firewood in a red zone and see what happens when the Land Police find out.

So please visitors to Queensland stick to designated camping areas and don't camp on private property without permission.

Oh and by the way we now have to carry $20,000,000 in Liability Insurance now on each farm.

If you're going to camp on someones property please make sure you have similar insurance.

Bruce

Rick
Gotta go and ask mate !
It's just common curteousy


Cheers
Bucky

I would hope that most people owning or running thee stations really don't mind if a responsible camper pulls off the unfenced road just enough to get out of view for an overnight stay.

As stated above how in the heck would you know where the House is located.

I do not agree with the comparison between a town or rural block to a vast pastroal lease/owning with gazetted roads running through it.

Lets face it most of the gazetted public roads on these leases/owned properties are more than likely fenced for no access and if not fenced not a made road and used by the property.

I will ask if I know that I will stay on a property for an extended camp, but as others state above at the end of a days trip I will look for a spot just off the beaten track. We will always only leave a set of Tyre marks.

To date after years of travel this has never been an issue. Then I suppose the world is changing and not everyone will do the right thing.

Regards Tony