Medical Facilities in Country Towns

Submitted: Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 15:23

ThreadID: 81567 Views:3834 Replies:11 FollowUps:8

This Thread has been Archived

Gone Bush (WA)

I was watching Landline during lunch today and a story set in the NSW town of Gulgong came up. I pricked up my ears because Mrs Bush and I enjoyed our visit to Gulgong in late 2009 on our way back to WA with our new van.

Anyway, the story was about the town's hospital being closed.

Several things came out of this story that tells me it's a very complex issue.

Small country towns are easy for Govts to treat poorly.

Small country towns seem to attract doctors from overseas. The town doctor was an Iraqi. Another doctor in the story was either Indian or SriLankan.

Why can't these towns attract Aussie doctors. Don't mis-interpret my comments here.

What does this say about our immigration policy. Maybe target more overseas doctors. Spend less money dealing with illegal immigrants (I see recently that illegal immigrants in the detention camps received, on average, $100,000 compo for injuries received while in the detention centres).

Some State Govts have their priorities all arse about.

The NSW Sate Govt seems to be hated as much as QLD's.

The Fed Govt throws money around like crazy but not where it seems to be needed.

The 3 Independants all wanted attention given to the country. Let's hope it gets it.

Gulgong is going to get about 5000 mine workers in the next few years but the hospital is closed. I'm sure there are similar stories in many other parts of the country.

Maybe everyone involved should be working to stop Fly In/Fly Out mining and build up these country towns.

It's all very complex and the answers are not apparent but Australia needs to start thinking of itself. $80 million promised by Rudd to help the Pakistan flood would have built a new hospital in Gulgong.

If I need hospitilisation next time I'm passing through Gulgong, I guess I can feel all mushy inside knowing that some Pakistanis are dry.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator Share

Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 15:36

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 15:36

well said

cheers
Graeme

Life is a journey, it is not how we fall down, it is how we get up.
VKS 1341

Member
My Profile My Position Send Message

AnswerID: 431469

Reply By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:27

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:27

GB, there is a little rumour around now, that if you get sick in the bush, they put you on the back of a service truck and take you to a capital city to get diagnosed right next door to your vehicle Service Dept.

Cost cutting by the Govt. means that occasionally they will get two jobs for the price of one service truck.

Dave

'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

AnswerID: 431473

Reply By: Notso - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:32

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:32

Yes, i's pretty hard to get Drs out in the bush.

Perhaps if the Govt regionalised Medicare provider nos it would help. eg divide population by the number of Gps then allocate provider numbers on that ratio to the regional towns and cities. Hmmm I'm sounding like a Socialist.

AnswerID: 431474

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:46

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 16:46

What this country is sadly lacking is a politician capable of being a Statesman.

Here in WA, in my humble opinion, the last one we had was Sir Charles Court.

At the moment, none of them can see past the next election.

Let me give you another example. A couple of years ago Mrs Bush and I were standing at the public viewing point looking over the Moomba Gas Field. The big display said that these fields provide 3 cities, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney, with 3 different products, in 3 separate pipelines.

I said to Mrs Bush that, if you add up the total length of all 3 of those pipelines, I'm sure you would have the equivalent length of one pipeline stretching from Lake Argyle to Perth.

Unfortunately it would take longer than one term to build it so Govts aren't interested.

I guarantee that it would be impossible for Australia to build the equivalent of a Snowy Mountains Scheme these days.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

AnswerID: 431478

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:11

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:11

Im guessing that you are referring to water-Lake Argyle to Perth?

The thing many people dont grasp on this issue is that it takes energy to move water thru a pipe, and it would appear that it takes less energy to desalinate water in Perth than to pump it all the way down. Also, with gas pipelines, the product is the fuel source for remote pump stations.
But it doesnt work with water of course.

FollowupID: 702333

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:52

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:52

I sure am referring to water, Fisho.

Problems? In 1896 C Y O'Connor started the Perth to Kalgoorlie water pipeline. It was completed in 1903.

They overcame their problems over 100 years ago.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

FollowupID: 702342

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 04:03

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 04:03

Definitely a valid point, but (AFAIK) it doesnt change the fact that it takes less energy to desalinate in Perth than to pump it that far thru regions with no infrastructure.

And while we can be pretty sure its more to do with fiddling numbers, the desal plant can (???) use offset wind energy, a pumping station in woop woop cant reliably.

FollowupID: 702347

Reply By: balko - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 17:13

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 17:13

I love those Doctors they fill the positions that our aussie dr,s don't want if ain't for them well there would be no dr at those country towns. Its hard for a young dr to go bush where there chances of further study and to earn big $$$ is next to zero. Some will say there should be made to do a stint out bush. Some of these paki Dr,s get working visas on the basis that they work out back..

AnswerID: 431481

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 19:56

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 19:56

G/Day GB

Here on the Gold Coast the only doctors that do house calls after hours are Foreign Doctors, they are prepaired to do the hard yards, I remember some time back the Cook was feeling a bit off and I called the after hours surgery, they sent out a French Doctor and we could not understand what he was saying, re the wifes problem, the only thing we did understand was pay me $120, anyway what ever he gave her seemed to do the trick, but we made sure she saw her own GP the next day.

Cheers

AnswerID: 431507

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 20:24

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 20:24

Gday GB,
If I can be the devil's advocate and give another persective:

If you want to be on call 24/7, then become a country GP.
If you want the locals to talk/gossip/whisper about you........
If you want to be crucified and run out of town for the slightest complication, whether it was your fault or not.........
If you want to be paid less.......
If you want to send your kids to boarding school for an education.......
If you are a female doctor ( about 70% of our current intake of doctors are female), would you move to the country??
And I think country people expections are unrealistic they expect their country GP to be an expert at everything - simply impossible in this day and age of high-tech medicine.

In the past, Governments restricted medical school intakes as a way of keeping a lid on health costs (less doctors means less cost). Now there are doctor shortages in many fields of medicine, not just country areas. They had to increase intakes recently, but it takes many years for this to flow through (it takes 13 years of training to specialise, and general practice is considered a specialty these days).

Governments simply hire doctors from 3rd world countries as a band-aid solution (yep, I have a problem with wealthy countries like Australia doing this). These doctors are usually limited to practicing in "areas of need" which is why you find them in the country areas.

And finally, how many of "Generation Y" kids are willing to graduate from university with a $100,000 HECS bill and work as a country GP?

AnswerID: 431515

Follow Up By: OREJAP - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 09:38

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 09:38

You are spot on Phil. Not only Doctors but other services suffer too. Country Victoria (In some locations) suffer from lack of Police who are Not willing to stay on and live in a community for a long time. Dick Smith was on the money in his views of Doctors in remote areas & other specialist professions it is easy for the Govt to "import" people from overseas who are already "trained" rather than the problems aussies present. My brother is in a Victoria Country town & he said they are always getting new Police & doctors who do not stay either (probably due to what you state Phil) The last Doctor they had failed his Australian Exams for the third time & if anything happened slightly serious he would send them off to another town 120km's away. Our population is a huge problem with natural resources being used at an alarming rate with only 6% of this country suitable for farming we have to do something. Dick Smith for President of Australia.

FollowupID: 702368

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:30

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:30

Phil ,in Qld the Hecs bill is a point of negotiation for any young/new doctor willing to do remote /country service , Capt Bligh will payout the bill plus other incentives , but gen Y is just not interested ,

FollowupID: 702375

Reply By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:40

Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 23:40

Hi Gone Bush

Unfortunately this time I have to agree 100%. Although I live extremely remote by choice, to see a doctor I have to drive either 9 hours to Kununurra or 13 hours to Broome.
I drove to Kununurra not long back, and found out that the doctor was then fully booked for 3 days. I ended up taking my old (already expired) prescription to the chemist, who fortunately knows of my medical needs (I also have a medic alert card), and promptly resupplied me with my requirements.
The last time the community where I live saw a doctor in the clinic was well over a month ago. We used to have a regular from South Africa, and although he could be difficult to understand, he was keen to do his job.
There are many mines in this area, but they are not even provided for.

Cheers

Why travel overseas, you could travel Australia your entire life, and not see it all.

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

AnswerID: 431537

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 09:44

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 09:44

In QLD right now the govt offers very generous incentives for doctors to take up rural and remote service , some of which includes free housing [ok a lot is not exactly 5 star or even 2 star but it is liveable] ,extra cash incentives ,depending on area a waiving of HECS fees owing , vehicle supplied ,fuel paid for etc ,
And still no takers ,
Aramac hospital is now to close and become a PHC , the poo fight between Qld health and the townsfolk has been ongoing for years , NO doctor so how can you have a hospital , NO patients as no doctor , how can anyone justify the expense of running a hospital with ALL its associated staff [ gardener/ cleaner/ cook/ kitchen hand / admin officer / 24-7 nursing staff most of which is agency so nursing costs are tripple , ] TRY ,just try to justify the costs ,

AnswerID: 431554

Reply By: OzTroopy - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:47

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:47

Whilst there is generally a dismal range of medical facilities in most small country towns .... there does does seem to be a whole host of funded medical agencies .... that spend their time passing responsibility from one to the other ...... leaving a patient out on the bench until they decide to drive themselves to a major facility.

A good example of small country town medicals facilities ?????

hmmmmm

howzabout a youngun with broken legs ... a bunch of ambos standing about after doing the basics, a helicopter and crew waiting about and finally .... after about 4.5hrs ..... Into a hospital .... which then decided ... ohhh we might send you to sydney ....

Takes 2hrs to drive to the hospital .... past three shutdown hospitals .... pfffttttttt

If states cant provide decent rural medical services for basic injuries ... then the system has failed.

Too much emphasis on income rather patient care by the majority of doctors these days I reckon.

AnswerID: 431561

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:15

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:15

So by your reckoning it is fair for the Govt to waste $$$$$ on a Hospital that cannot attract a doctor , TRY Brisbane , Youngun with 2 broken legs waiting in the ambulance bay at the PAH after the Prince Charles and the RBH are both on bypass , TRY driving from Brighton on the Nthside to the PAH in peak hr [ 2hrs on some days ] ,
At least out west when a hospital is shut down it is replaced by a 24/7 PHC that can "do" and for a lot less cost/ wasteage .

FollowupID: 702380

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:08

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:08

Depends on what you call waste ..... and what your impressions of a hospital are.

If a hospital cant attract a doctor .... then theres obviously not enough individuals out there who want to be "doctors" ....

FollowupID: 702385

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 13:05

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 13:05

Define waste ? A "hospital'' that for the last 6+ years employs a DON , 4 RNS , 8 ENs , a fulltime Admin officer , a fulltime gardener , a fulltime cook + a casual for weekend work , a fulltime kitchen hand , a fulltime laundry operator , and 2 cleaners ,,, Anyone that actually requires hospitalisation is transported by ambulance or plane out of town , A PHC can do the exact same at less than 50% of the cost ,,

FollowupID: 702390

Reply By: Steve63 - Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 14:55

Monday, Sep 27, 2010 at 14:55

Building hospitals is only part of it. It may cost $2b to build a big hospital but it will cost $650m a year to run it. You have to be able to staff them and the staff need to be competent to provide the service. A lot of services get rationalised because there are just not enough trained staff to run them in a safe way. This is true in cities as well as the country. Would you want to be in an ICU with no ICU trained medical or nursing staff? What you are doing then is providing the country a sub standard service, which is inexcusable. So you could put all the ICU equipment in every hospital but no one would be able to use it safely. Medicine has changed a lot over the last 30 years. They don't know how to use all the kit that is available now. On to of that you need to use it all the time (at least once a week) to be any good with it. When you are using this type of equipment it is often an emergency situation. You don't have time to read the manual.

There is a general shortage of medical and nursing staff everywhere. A lot of them don't want to work in the country, even though many of them originally came from country towns. Strange but true. This is not just a matter of money. At some locations the pay offers for medical staff are huge and they still can not get staff. On top of that the average age of nurses in australia is over 50. So you can bet staff shortages will be getting worse over the next 10 years. It is likely that most cities will be looking at one of there smaller hospitals closing over the next 10 years, simply because they can not staffit.

Steve

AnswerID: 431582