Aboriginals guilty of assaulting fishermen

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:10
ThreadID: 85769 Views:5078 Replies:8 FollowUps:14
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In today’s issue of The West Australian it reported on a case where two aboriginals, from the Karajarri clan, were found guilty of assaulting fishermen on native title land – They were each fined $1200 each ordered to pay $70,000 costs.
I had a run in with this mob at Pt Smith, 2 months prior to the above assault, and posted an account of incident on Exporoz - Jul 5th 2010 – see below.

Pt Smith - Conflict with local aboriginals

The wife and I were fishing in Injudinah Creek a couple of days ago when we were confronted by a group of five aboriginals, an elder and four young blokes. Three of them were wearing a shirt with an official looking emblem on the pocket and the words Karajarri Ranger.

The old fellow walked over to me and sat down on the edge of the rock pool, that I was filleting a fish in, and told me that this was Karajarri land. He said that they were going to start putting up signs, sometime in the future; declaring these areas sacred and we would be limited to where we could go. He went on to tell me he was here to take my license plate number and to see that I didn’t break any fishing rules.

This mob didn’t look official - a bit amateurish and I did my best not to stir them but I asked the old fellow if he had any paperwork to show that he was authorised by The Fisheries Department or DEC. He backed off saying that no he hadn’t official authorisation, but he was helping them with their work.

After the incident when, I got back to the caravan park, I reported this event to the manager, who said that these aboriginals had recently been given native title rights around the area where they lived, which didn’t include the area we were fishing in. I described the elder with missing front teeth and a beard and the manager said he was an old stirrer who had no official ranger status, other than amongst his own people. He said he was just trying to establish authority in areas he wasn’t entitled to and the best way to handle him was to challenge him as we had done.

I was telling a fellow traveller about the incident who said that he recently returned from Cape Leveque where the local aboriginals charged him $5 to visit a nearby beach.

Others at Pt Smithpark also reported similar challenges around Pt Smith but were bluffed into leaving the area - best check with the park owner as to the extent of native title before you go fishing and then be prepared to stick up for yourself.

Regards Dennis
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Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:20

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:20
Thanks Dennis,

It goes to show there is good and bad in all races, I'm glad the courts sent a firm message.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 451911

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:46

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:46
Wilko you must live on a different planet.
A firm message! – Tell me how does the injured party recover their costs?
What punishment, in a practical sense, have the guilty suffered?
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Follow Up By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:59

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:59
Hi Dennis,

I live on Earth and 70k each hurts. If you can pay it and not suffer your a lot better off then me.
Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 21:50

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 21:50
I think what Dennis was referring to was in the vein that not being able to get blood from stones, they will never have to or be made to pay it.

Dave
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Follow Up By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 21:59

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 21:59
I understand now, but the good old judge handed down a good fine, If they default he may just give them an equally harsh sentence (or is that asking too much). It would be good to eliminate the scum of society from the general population.

Cheers Wilko
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Reply By: Old Dave - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:26

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:26
Hi Dennis

I just hope it is those guys who pay the fines and not taken out of the millions we

give them from our taxes

Regards Dave.
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Follow Up By: The Rambler( W.A.) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:55

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 19:55
Offer them a case of beer and you can fish wherever you like.
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:07

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 20:07
So where do you think they will get the $72,400 from?
From their bank accounts?
Whitey's pockets I'll bet.


Bill.
Bill


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AnswerID: 451919

Reply By: Muntoo - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 22:23

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 22:23
Hi Dennis, i think if i was you i would get all the facts straight before posting this.

The owners of Port Smith have known about this for ages, and continue to tell lies. I dont agree with the violence or anything like that, but i will respect another persons request to not visit an area that has some significance to it. Just like i wouldnt walk over someones grave or piss on a church. Obviously in no way was this man being abusive to you, and in no was he lying either. He was simply letting you know what the go was.

It seems this thread has shown up nothing but racist remarks, which is nothing suprising for this site.

Have read of what these Rangers groups do, and what they achieve. They do more for the conservation and preservation of this country then you ever have. Yet you think you can just show up and go where you like and do what you like. If it was a sign saying Keep off the dunes for rehabilitation, you would, but obviously you wouldnt keep out of an area that read, Protected Aboriginal Area, to protect an area that has been used for 1000s of years. Why is this?

Ranger Groups

Of course the owners of Port smith know everything.

Claim Map

If you look at the map you will find that Native Title exists over Port Smith, and also i think you will find that it has existed for many years, not just till recently as you stated. Port Smith management know all about these areas and the native title, yet continue to turn a blind eye to it for the sake of money.



1. Kimberley Ranger Initiative - Karajarri Indigenous positions Working on Country
The Karajarri lands lie 200 kms south of Broome and include 130kms of coastline. Stretching from Gordon Bay to Cape Missiessy this coastal strip also includes the northern 20kms of the Eighty Mile Beach, which is listed under the RAMSAR Convention because of the important habitat it provides for migratory shorebirds.

The rangers' environmental work will focus on coastal management issues to reduce the impacts on the region's natural and cultural values through the management of visitors.

By incorporating western survey techniques with traditional ecological knowledge, the rangers will undertake baseline biodiversity surveys with the assistance of specialists, and develop ongoing monitoring programs. This will allow rangers to gauge the results of their land management work to manage weeds, feral animals and wildfires.

Many Working on Country projects cover vast areas of land along with rivers, estuaries and coastlines. The integration of the Indigenous peoples' traditional knowledge of country is pivotal to the success of land management outcomes through Working on Country.

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 07:48

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 07:48
I think a point here Muntoo is that these areas have significance to more than one group of people and that what we have to do is be inclusive and try and make reasonable provision for all.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:55

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:55
Munto we must all obey Australian Law.
As far as I can see the Karajarri Rangers are self appointed and have no authority over the general public.
Where I go and what I do is controlled by Australian law. If the Karajarri Rangers consider me to be trespassing, their right is to call the police and have me charged with trespass. These fishermen from the Bidyadanga Community should have been reported to the police if they were doing something illegal. Beating them with clubs and spears may be legal under Karragarra law but not under Australian law, as the court decided.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 11:41

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 11:41
And yet, take a look at the Lake Eyre issue and the couple of threads appearing on here over the past week. Those accessing it via a boat without a permit are breaking the law, the traditional landowner’s have called for police intervention this Easter, and there is an uproar from many on this forum that this is a waste of police resources. And maybe it is...

Now, I’m not advocating they take the law into their own hands, but see how inconsistent and slanted the whole aboriginal issue in Australia becomes. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

But I’m assuming you would support the course of action the Lake Eyre traditional owners are taking this weekend in calling for police intervention? After all one law for all...


Cheers, The Landy
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:21

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:21
As far as I’m concerned there is no place in Australia for different laws being applied depending on your race, religion or colour.
It’s yours and their right to report any breaches of Australian Law to the authorities.
About 50 years ago I met an old fella in the Northwest who was jailed for taking a 14 year old bride.
This was legal by his law – but not by Australian Law
Also Sharia Law is advocated by some members of our community – many of their practices the majority of Australians would find abhorrent.
I agree one law for all - no exceptions
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 22:40

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 22:40
The article also stated (whether correctly or not) that the two men who were attacked were from the Bidyadanga Aborigonal Corporation who became lost while searching for a fishing spot in September 2008. Yep 2008. Apparently extensive hearings have been going on in Broome and Bidyadanga.

Pop
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Follow Up By: Muntoo - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:07

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:07
Correct, the 2 men who were beaten had been warned several times before and also knew very well what they were doing. Thats why they were beaten.

Not that i agree with it, but its better then a spear/s through the leg or chest which is the traditional punishment.
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Follow Up By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:31

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:31
Sorry guys, but if they,(the traditional owners), want the 'protection' of white mans law regarding their ownership of a piece of land, perhaps it should be 'protected' under the white mans law. I don't think that includes assault, regardless of prior warnings etc.

Ask people to leave, if they wont, (and assuming you are entitled to ask them to leave), get in touch with the local ranger. Same as I would do.. ask the local cops to remove someone from my property, its the only legal way in AUSTRALIA.

I realize different cultures have different ways of dealing with things, but you can't 'double dip', either use the white mans law,(as you used to get official ownership of the land), or forget about it, and wear the consequences.

Cheers, Dave

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Reply By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:14

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:14
The story in the West Australian explains the circumstances fairly clearly, if not in detail. That some on here have chosen to ignore them and put a racial slur on the court's ruling may not surprise many readers but I'm not afraid to say it appals me.
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Follow Up By: Member - TJ (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:17

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:17
hear hear.
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:04

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:04
Everyone is entitled to have and express a view, and one of the most common is that we are all Australians so we should all be treated equally. In principle, I have no difficultly with accepting that as a concept and I suspect I am no different from many others.

But for one moment step back and ask yourself what does ‘equality’ truly mean in the context of this debate that continually rages in Australia. Many seem to focus on the ‘vested’ self-interests, the ones that seemingly lead to complaints about (on this forum) being barred entry to certain areas, being asked to not climb Ayers Rock, not being able to fish in a certain area, or being denied access to Lake Eyre for sailing, and out goes the cry for equality for all.

If we had to walk in the shoes of our indigenous population we might form a view that there is no equality for the ‘black fella’ in Australian society, not yet anyway.

Perhaps walking in the shoes of an Aboriginal Australian may develop a greater respect and understanding for some of the issues they are faced with. Infant mortality rates far in excess of the ‘white fellas’, yes, children dying because they simply don’t have access to levels of medical care that most of us are accustomed to. Or the constant battle against prejudice simply based on the colour of your skin, regardless of what you have done. Seemingly you are tarred with the brush of the lowest common denominator, as people point towards the alcohol problems endemic in many of our aboriginal communities. And as though the same problems don’t exist in our broader community...

Of course, the counter-argument is they should get off their back-sides and do something about it. Sounds good in principle and I’m all for that, but just step back, but on their shoes, and test just how many barriers you will face in trying to do that. And to their credit, many in the face of challenges that would break many Australians', go on to achieve outcomes for the benefit of not just their own people, but all Australians

Equality, what does it really mean when it comes to this debate?

Rant over,

Cheers, The Landy
AnswerID: 451970

Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:49

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:49
Landy

Muted applause from the back row!

I don't expect a reply from the posters who are members of the "woe is me, I'm a white Australian male and it's not fair that I'm hard done by" clique though.

Be interesting to see if they could put together an articulate and well reasoned argument based on legal, social, political and economic evidence to support their beliefs and their utterances. It's easier to cut and paste.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 15:02

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 15:02
Nargun
Though I disagree with Muntoo on a few things – I don’t have a problem with his cutting and pasting some of his information – what’s the big deal?
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Reply By: ModSquad - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 15:14

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 15:14
At this point we will be locking this thread due to the many requests for such action.

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The ModSquad
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