Part 1 - Towball question.......... Part 2 follows later

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 10:42
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What are the problems, consequences or issues of towing a near 3 tonne van, on a tow ball rated at 2000kg? Should somebody chose to do this, is it illegal?
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Reply By: landseka - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 10:56

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 10:56
It should be illegal for someone to drive that is stoopid enough to do that.
AnswerID: 490384

Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 10:58

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 10:58
Hi Phil

Bound to be illegal. I hope the safety chains are good, and that no damage gets done that warrants trying to make an insurance claim :O

Tow balls do break, and as a farmer i have seen this a number of times (including incidents out on the road). On the open road it is all the more important to ensure tow ball is in good order. Even fitting a new one every couple of years may be warranted - some travellers do go to this extent. It is also of course important to make sure that chains are in good order, proper correctly rated chains, correctly attached (and crossed), and that breakaway cable is in a position to activate in the unlikely event that the chain attachment comes away too (which although rare has happened to caravanners).

Our caravan hitch does not have a tow ball, but we have had a tow hitch breakage so were reliant on good safety chains which did their job well. Due to some damage, the chains were changed as soon as possible after this incident.

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:01

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:01
MH, tell us what happened and how you handled it.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40
Hi Redbakk

Fortunately my husband was driving at the time (he does the majority of the towing driving). Being non technical, i don't know the correct terms. We have an AT35 hitch; a type that block goes into the square receival point on the tow bar. I won't mention the brand of tow bar because everyone has said it is a good brand and should never have broken. It was not a Hayman Reece (the brand chosen for replacement) nor a Nissan towbar. We had been travelling through dirt roads in Central SA; Arkaroola, Maree, south to Woomera and were for a short time on the Stuart Highway between Pimba and Glendambo from where we were to turn south again to Wirrulla and homewards on our return from Tasmania - we like taking the scenic route :)

As we were eating lunch whilst continuing, there was a sudden loud bang. Husband pulled the rig neatly to a halt onto the narrow gravel edge which was barely wide enough to get off the bitumen as there was a steep drop down on this built up section of road and we jumped out to investigate the problem. There were lots of heavy haulage units on the highway (day and night). The square bit had broken away from the tow bar, and the a-frame point was dragging on the crossed chains (he was glad i had won the argument about crossing the chains as it did help with stability). Fortunately a slight uphill gradient meant the caravan could not launch into the car. There was considerable wear on the chains from the short drag on the bitumen. To have the chains tight enough to have held the a frame up from the road as some suggest it should be would not have been possible to allow turning.

Getting help is a another story in itself, as it was Saturday afternoon and Roxby Race Weekend. Outback people are just wonderful.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:59

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:59
Glad it had a happy ending with you two all OK.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:17

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:17
Yes, all was well as were other road users. If it can happen - it has happened to us ~ Our stories can only be reminders to others that despite the best of preparations, things can and do go wrong out there - usually in the most remote locations. Be prepared an take it as it comes.

Mh
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Reply By: Mad Habits - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 11:53

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 11:53
50% over the design rating! Why are you even asking the question? Maybe the question you should be asking is - Do you think I could kill an entire family and their pet poodle travelling the other way if I do this????

Consequences?? How about a manslaughter charge if the above happens and the coroners investigators realise you have asked the question on a public forum before you did it.

Please post your every trip so I can make sure I'm no where near you!

R.I.P.
AnswerID: 490390

Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:05

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:05
Mad Habits, I will take it that your reply was supposed to be somewhat humerous. Although as I type this I know you are going to say `no, I don't think its a funny situation', well I assure you, nor do I. I take this very seriously. By the way, I don't think of myself as stupid, so wouldn't commit a crime and announce it on a public forum.
I know what my answer would be to my own question. The reason I have put it in two parts is because I wish to see if others follow my line of reasoning. I also hoped that any answers or information gained, would help re: part 2.
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:15

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:15
Maybe you should have posted all your questions in one post rather than relying on others to 2nd guess your intentions.
Tow ball rating as I understand it is one that is applied vertically and which is approximately 10% of the gross towing mass.
So if you have a towball rated at 2000kgs you should be good for 20 tons

Or are you talking about towbar loads?

Is the 3000kgs the ATM or GTM?
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Follow Up By: Mad Habits - Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:14

Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:14
I'm sure some people had a chuckle, as I'm also sure some people out there are actually doing what was asked in the question.
Hopefully my tongue in cheek comments will help to slap them around the face and look at what they are doing, and just maybe think about the misery they could cause to an unknown recipients family (recipient of a 3.5 ton van - "tow ball still attached" jamming its way into the cabin of their hatchback via the windscreen and snotting that ugly little poodle lying on the rear parcel shelf " I know poodles aren't ugly OK, so don't flame me)
Oops! - slap the back of your hand Mad Habits you're doing it again!

I've read many comments on this thread and one thing comes to me that no one seems to think about is, a tow bar can look very strong but they can be fitted to the vehicle by just 4 bolts, and that can have people thinking "How strong are those 4 little bolts?"
but think about it, surely the weakest point has to be the tow ball itself - I know they look chunky and strong enough to pull a Jumbo Jet, but what holds it to the tongue?
A) 1 bolt - (those 4 bolts are looking pretty strong to me now) so how strong is that 1 bolt & is that 1 little bolt part of the rating of a towbar?

One can only imagine the stresses being contained by that 1 little bolt as you pull 3,500kg up a steep mountain rd and for the driver following mmm 1 little bolt do I drive as close as I can to it to stop it rolling back at great speed or do I drive with a great distance and try to dodge it as it barrels towards me at 100kmh because no one charged the electric brake battery?

I pull a 5th wheeler (3490kg) and the hitch is rated to 5,800kg but when you look at it closely and find its weakest looking points it makes me wonder if it could possibly hold together under all the forces being created at its max rated capacity, one can only trust in the engineering, design, testing & certification before being sold.

Putting it in perspective (re original thread posted) is it OK for me to load up the 5th wheeler to 8700kg to see if it (the hitch) can handle a 50% over its 5,800kg rating, scary thought.
That's not a serious question guys, so don't all come back with what's the ATM etc... (even though a 5th wheeler works on the GCM) & my Nissan Navara would not even come close to tugging 8700kg anyway - and before someone says a Nissan Navara has a tow capacity of 3000kg and the 5th wheeler your towing is 3490kg, so your guilty of what your bagging out on - 5th wheelers are not governed by the ATM they are calculated by the GCM.

Cheers!
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Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:44

Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:44
Nice post mad habbits.
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Reply By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 11:56

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 11:56
It should be a rated tow ball, but I have towed and used a lesser rated outfit and had no troubles.
My current set up is rated for 3500kgs.
AnswerID: 490391

Reply By: Aussi Traveller - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:10

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:10
Get your 3 ton van and lift it up on a 2 ton hoist.

To answer your question ask yourself this, would you stand underneath it.

I know I wouldn't.
AnswerID: 490392

Reply By: member - mazcan - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40
hi arsenal phil
imho no one should ever consider towing that sort of weight on a 2000kg rated towbar it would be just -super stupid -
even with my long term farming background and experiences would i even contemplate doing that not even in a farm paddock
i had a large heavy duty tractor drawbar snap off when towing the old style header with large grain boxes full of wheat across rough ground caused by the whipping action multiplied by the down forces and its pretty scareystuff when it happens
for someone to want to go out on a public rd and do what your suggesting needs to be locked up
i dont believe its you that is involved and i think your setting us all up
because you said wait for part 2 coming soon ????
cheers
AnswerID: 490393

Reply By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40
Hi Phil,

My first question is WHY are you asking?

The second question is when is Part 2 going to follow.

BTW

What are the problems,
A1 - Overloaded, LOTS.

consequences or issues of towing a near 3 tonne van
A2 - Death to innocent people

on a tow ball rated at 2000kg?
A3 - The tail is definitely waving the dog.

Should somebody chose to do this, is it illegal?
A4 - NO, they shouldn't choose to...or be advised to. NO.

BTW What location is this going to happen in ....... so we will not be anywhere near.

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.
AnswerID: 490394

Reply By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:42

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:42
Part two will be..

Is it possible to go fishing whilst sitting infront of a computer..

By the answers to-date I would say "Yes" he has had several bites...
AnswerID: 490395

Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:44

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:44
Good one Craig
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Follow Up By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:45

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:45
LOL ...................

That of course would be PHISHING ...............

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.
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Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:47

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 12:47
Are you asking about just the actual ball or the complete towbar plus ball?
AnswerID: 490396

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:57

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:57
exactly what i was wondering - but not the best idea, whatever.
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Reply By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:56

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 13:56
Jump forward to 3 minutes 40 seconds, if it can happen to these blokes it can happen to anyone, and there is no way these blokes would be towing with some thing underated (towbar/ball)....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2rfd_fEyxc
AnswerID: 490401

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:02

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:02
correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that gung-ho Dave towing the van off the beach with a wdh still on? Different situation if I'm looking at the right section.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:08

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:08
Yeah possibly Steve, Im not right up there with WDH's etc, Im just watching another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dwnryzrgdgtop end trip, geez he gives them vehicles a hard time, both the 100 series and the prados. I have their latest one with the new 150, glad there not my vehicles lol. I know its all about advertising the van etc but they still cop a flogging but entertaining to watch........But I know the prados on the 120's are not real good and I know a few people who tow nearly to the limits so change over the factory towbar which is still rated to 2.5t. I don't do that heavier towing but if I did I would certainly be changing over myself on my 120 to a hayman reese. Cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:10

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:10
""But I know the prados on the 120's"" sorry should be ""I know the towbars on the prado 120's"".......................Cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:22

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:22
[img]
[/img]

This is what is on mine, genuine toyota rated at 2.5t held on by 4 bolts, my old prado which had genuine also but was previous model/shape had the whole bar go right across the total rear end, to me looked like it was a lot stronger but then Im not an engineer ????
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:23

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:23
You're right about the 120 tow bar - I have one meself and would upgrade if I was doing the rough stuff. At the moment our van is a soft-roader anyway so I don't tow much that's too adventurous - I just go off with the tent. It's a while since I've seen the Fraser episode but I think the issue was Dave leaving the wdh on, which didn't allow the hitch to flex over a ramp-over due to it's stiffening the rig. Easy to forget but they shouldn't've evn gone on the beach with it on. Goes a bit over the top, Dave - but the trips would be a bit too tame without him. Good entertainment, no ads and I like their honesty with warts n'all family disagreements for good measure.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:29

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:29
This is what is on the new 150 prados which is very similiar to what I had on my 2 previous prados (90 series) Looks a lot stronger to me ??

[img]
[/img]
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:44

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:44
wait a minute....are you Steve as well or am I getting confused?? LOL

Anyway, that's the one in the first pic - just the standard rig. I've been reassured it's ok for towing as per spec but don't put a wdh on it. Funny that whenever I query the tow bar with Toyota they look all blank and confused as if I'm worrying about nothing - but they still decided to upgrade it on the 150. I haven't priced a full-width bar but would be interested to know.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:45

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:45
This would scare the crap out of me if it happened to me ???
[img]
[/img]
[img]
[/img]

This is the 120, same as I have. We are doing a big trip hopefully next year but will be hiring a big van to do it (round 20 foot) so Im thinking Im going to update the rear bar to a hayman reese, dont see the point in taking chances and killing myself ,wife and 4 year old, let alone anybody else we are sharing the road with. To me this should have been a recall straight away from Toyota, dont know how they got away with it..........Cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:46

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:46
Yeah mate steve number 2 lol.....Glenmore Park Sydney........
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:49

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:49
Now Im looking at it, looks like cast shit to me ??? What happened to solid steel ?? Cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:55

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 14:55
there's a lot of em on the road and I've seen that pic of the broken hitch before (or similar) and it was down to the wdh putting too much strain on it. Think it was on Pradopoint.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:00

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:00
I think the collective wisdom on Pradopoint decided that as a conventional ball hitch, the cup and ball would part company before it would rip the hitch off the car and it had only ever broken when used with a wdh after asking for other members' experiences.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:14

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:14
here you go: a mob in Gladesville doing them fitted for $575



http://www.shop1auto.com.au/New%20towbar%20pages/Towbars_Toyota_Prado.html

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Reply By: mountainman - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:16

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 15:16
some of you old guys carry on abit.

if someone had a genuine question, came to a forum like this, silly as some questions are, lots on here.

the replies his getting would make anyone not ask, no need for the carry on like some people post.

for god sake not everyone has towed a van before, or know it all like some.

KEEP it friendly otherwise this is going down the lcool forum, bunch of old blokes just waiting to pounce on anyone. miserable website.
what are we comming too......

upgrade the towball buddy, make sure the towbar is rated for the load, 3t.

simple reply folks, no harsh comments needed.
otherwise no one else will ask... about other stuff!!!

we live in the greatest country known to man, keep it that way. be happy.
AnswerID: 490408

Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:42

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:42
Very well put Mountainman. I've seen quite a few posts where some of the correspondance is almost `venomous'.
We should be careful, as some people will not use the forum as designed, purely for the fact they may be ridiculed or taken to task.
It's probably better to keep quiet if you haven't got anything constructive or useful to add. What's the point otherwise??
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Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:43

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:43
I have noticed one thing. Most of the contributions that are of the negative and nasty nature are posted by people with no membership profile........
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Follow Up By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:53

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 16:53
So as a registered user of the site and with no membership profile (I'm not a member) I apparently should say ..............

"Of course it is ok to tow 3000 kg on a 2000 kg system, Phill"

???????

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.


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Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:41

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:41
Wayne and Sally, I wasn't refering to this posting. In the time I've been using this site I've read quite a lot of forum pieces. It is just something I've noticed. Some replies and exchanges aren't even relevant to the topic. They seem somewhat loaded toward having a dig at the person asking the question, or in other cases, someone adding a point of view.
I am always grateful from any help or feedback I get on this site. If there is a topic discussed that I know something about, I will not diss a person who may have a different point of view. My critiscism was of people posting who offer nothing, be it opinion nor expertise.
I was not asking for permission to tow on a 2000kg system. I was information gathering from the wealth of experienced people on here. As I said earlier, I know my own answer to my question. I was seeking verification that I am correct. With all the responses I have had, I see that my own answer is correct.
I do not like getting into an argument with people without being sure of my facts. From the feedback I've recieved today, said argument will now be pursued, and I am now more qualified to debate topic, without winging it on my own perceptions.
I do hope my view of negative postings isn't misunderstood.
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Follow Up By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:37

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:37
Hi Phill,

Thank you for youe expanded explanation and indicated point of view, VERY good.

We agree that there are some questions asked on this forum, that ponder the question of WHY!! We asked the same in our first reply to your post .... and we were a little flippant in a follow up about "phishing", I digress.

With that in mind, our position as instructors dictate that that any information we hand out ..... in ANY form, must be absolute. This is to protect us and to protect the recipient of the information from using the information presented/given in an inappropriate situation.

As Mother Hen indicated in a follow up......... Bring on Part 2!!

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

P.S. What have you done with Axle??
... and when can we have him back?? .... LOL.
W&S.
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Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 21:12

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 21:12
Phew.......!!! Glad I cleared that up. Later in the week all will become clearer hopefullly. I should be better able to expand, and then the little bit of fog everyone is experiencing will be lifted. LOL
Also while I am here............can you explain about Axle?

Cheers

Phill
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Follow Up By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:34

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:34
Hi Phill,

We are all good too!!

Axle??

Oh, from time to time he asks questions like yours .......................

normally on a quiet week ....................... lol

All good from here and from us.

Bring on Part 2!!

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.
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Follow Up By: Member - Terry. G (TAS) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:50

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:50
mountainman
Again well put mountainman I am an old bugger but if I knew nothing about setting up or towing a van and went onto a forum and received the crap going on here I would not ask the questions from my so called peers. just hook the van onto the tug and hope like hell I was doing the right thing
Terry
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Reply By: Member - blackbird1937 - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:35

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:35
Hello PHill , I can tell you from past experience in Vic . My son driving his Falcon ute V8 auto towing my tandem trailer with my Suzuki Sierra on when he crashed . Police turned up made phone calls to discover if it was legal for the Falcon to tow that weight . He was ok as it was just under the weight for being illegal . Otherwise he was going to be booked also no insurance as well . Vern
AnswerID: 490417

Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:39

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:39
We await Phill's part @ explanation ~
Motherhen

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:40

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 17:40
Sorry - part 2
Motherhen

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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:01

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:01
Hopefully Part 2 won't be a stupid question too.
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Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:27

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 19:27
Listen Boobook. You may think it was a stupid question. I explained earlier why it was phrased/put as so.
You don't need to chip in with sarcasm. Pointless.
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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:04

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 22:04
Theres no need for denigrating replies
Moderation is just rules

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Reply By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:06

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:06
I'd just liike to say, in an effort to clear up a little grey area with this post, that even if I had read posts saying it was ok to use a 2000Kg ball, I WOULD NOT. I believe things are rated for a reason and are there for our safety, what ever walk of life said rating is appertaining to. I have no interst of putting my life, my better half's life, or innocent passers by lives in danger.
If I was to put myself in this situation of using the 2000kg ball, that would be, what I would consider myself to be doing.
So please, don't let this question put me in the wrong light. I apologise to anyone who thinks I was just being dumb and therefore found my question offensive to their intelligence.
Cheers all

Phill
AnswerID: 490428

Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:24

Sunday, Jul 08, 2012 at 20:24
So what is the question to which you seek an answer? If it is the legality, then no it is not legal. The towing capacity of a vehicle is the lesser of the manufactures towing specification or the tow hitch, in this case the ball.
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Reply By: Member - Josh- Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 09:28

Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 09:28
Maybe in future it might be better to explain yourself more in the original post. I was going to reply but didn't cause it would've been quite rude. Anyone thinking of doing what your suggesting should not be allowd to drive. The way you posted left it so open for interpretation. That may have been deliberate to get a response but you then have tobe willing to take the negative with the positive. If you want genuine responses then maybe word the original question better.
Maybe ask like this...

I need to clarify the following. What could be the problems, consequences or issues of towing a near 3 tonne van, on a tow ball rated at 2000kg? I know you should not but need the facts on the possible issues of doing so. Also what would be the legal issues if someone did this and had an accident.
I am not going to do this nor would I condone anyone else doing it. I need evidense to back up my case of not doing this so I can present it to someone else.

Asking like this would have removed you from being in the "idiot and should be removed from society" catergory. Your post left people geussing what was really happening (deliberate I geuss) which is why you got negative answers. If I know of someone planning on doing this I would call Vicroads/police who ever and have them removed from the road. It is an accident waiting to happen.
I think you need to post part two asap to clarify your thoughts.
Sometimes a little more if in the original post can prevent issues with replies.
Were the negative replies out of line, personally I don't think so. With the information you gave you got the replies you did which shows the people on here care more about their own safety, their families safety and other road users safety than someone who is about to break the law and do something very dangerous. As you have further explained you wouldn't do it but no one knew that from your original post.
Hope you get it sorted what ever it is your trying to acheive from this.

Josh
AnswerID: 490455

Follow Up By: Member - Arsenal Phill - Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:00

Monday, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:00
Hi Josh. I fully accept what you are saying and will store it in my memory as a lesson for future posts . To be honest I did not expect that people would think I would use this system to tow a van, even as a novice. It just goes to show that the written word can be interpreted several different ways. As I knew what I was talking about it seems simple enough. However, as you say in other people's minds it is not.
It does not however change my view on negative post comments. That view was not expressed purely on this thread. I have seen other postings that I have not been involved in where this kind of negative stuff goes on.
Anyway, I have taken on board everything people have said about the way I have composed this issue and will bare it in mind for the future.
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