Part 1 - Towball question.......... Part 2 follows later

MH, tell us what happened and how you handled it.

Hi Redbakk

Fortunately my husband was driving at the time (he does the majority of the towing driving). Being non technical, i don't know the correct terms. We have an AT35 hitch; a type that block goes into the square receival point on the tow bar. I won't mention the brand of tow bar because everyone has said it is a good brand and should never have broken. It was not a Hayman Reece (the brand chosen for replacement) nor a Nissan towbar. We had been travelling through dirt roads in Central SA; Arkaroola, Maree, south to Woomera and were for a short time on the Stuart Highway between Pimba and Glendambo from where we were to turn south again to Wirrulla and homewards on our return from Tasmania - we like taking the scenic route :)

As we were eating lunch whilst continuing, there was a sudden loud bang. Husband pulled the rig neatly to a halt onto the narrow gravel edge which was barely wide enough to get off the bitumen as there was a steep drop down on this built up section of road and we jumped out to investigate the problem. There were lots of heavy haulage units on the highway (day and night). The square bit had broken away from the tow bar, and the a-frame point was dragging on the crossed chains (he was glad i had won the argument about crossing the chains as it did help with stability). Fortunately a slight uphill gradient meant the caravan could not launch into the car. There was considerable wear on the chains from the short drag on the bitumen. To have the chains tight enough to have held the a frame up from the road as some suggest it should be would not have been possible to allow turning.

Getting help is a another story in itself, as it was Saturday afternoon and Roxby Race Weekend. Outback people are just wonderful.

Mh

Glad it had a happy ending with you two all OK.

Yes, all was well as were other road users. If it can happen - it has happened to us ~ Our stories can only be reminders to others that despite the best of preparations, things can and do go wrong out there - usually in the most remote locations. Be prepared an take it as it comes.

Mh

Mad Habits, I will take it that your reply was supposed to be somewhat humerous. Although as I type this I know you are going to say `no, I don't think its a funny situation', well I assure you, nor do I. I take this very seriously. By the way, I don't think of myself as stupid, so wouldn't commit a crime and announce it on a public forum.
I know what my answer would be to my own question. The reason I have put it in two parts is because I wish to see if others follow my line of reasoning. I also hoped that any answers or information gained, would help re: part 2.

Maybe you should have posted all your questions in one post rather than relying on others to 2nd guess your intentions.
Tow ball rating as I understand it is one that is applied vertically and which is approximately 10% of the gross towing mass.
So if you have a towball rated at 2000kgs you should be good for 20 tons

Or are you talking about towbar loads?

Is the 3000kgs the ATM or GTM?

I'm sure some people had a chuckle, as I'm also sure some people out there are actually doing what was asked in the question.
Hopefully my tongue in cheek comments will help to slap them around the face and look at what they are doing, and just maybe think about the misery they could cause to an unknown recipients family (recipient of a 3.5 ton van - "tow ball still attached" jamming its way into the cabin of their hatchback via the windscreen and snotting that ugly little poodle lying on the rear parcel shelf " I know poodles aren't ugly OK, so don't flame me)
Oops! - slap the back of your hand Mad Habits you're doing it again!

I've read many comments on this thread and one thing comes to me that no one seems to think about is, a tow bar can look very strong but they can be fitted to the vehicle by just 4 bolts, and that can have people thinking "How strong are those 4 little bolts?"
but think about it, surely the weakest point has to be the tow ball itself - I know they look chunky and strong enough to pull a Jumbo Jet, but what holds it to the tongue?
A) 1 bolt - (those 4 bolts are looking pretty strong to me now) so how strong is that 1 bolt & is that 1 little bolt part of the rating of a towbar?

One can only imagine the stresses being contained by that 1 little bolt as you pull 3,500kg up a steep mountain rd and for the driver following mmm 1 little bolt do I drive as close as I can to it to stop it rolling back at great speed or do I drive with a great distance and try to dodge it as it barrels towards me at 100kmh because no one charged the electric brake battery?

I pull a 5th wheeler (3490kg) and the hitch is rated to 5,800kg but when you look at it closely and find its weakest looking points it makes me wonder if it could possibly hold together under all the forces being created at its max rated capacity, one can only trust in the engineering, design, testing & certification before being sold.

Putting it in perspective (re original thread posted) is it OK for me to load up the 5th wheeler to 8700kg to see if it (the hitch) can handle a 50% over its 5,800kg rating, scary thought.
That's not a serious question guys, so don't all come back with what's the ATM etc... (even though a 5th wheeler works on the GCM) & my Nissan Navara would not even come close to tugging 8700kg anyway - and before someone says a Nissan Navara has a tow capacity of 3000kg and the 5th wheeler your towing is 3490kg, so your guilty of what your bagging out on - 5th wheelers are not governed by the ATM they are calculated by the GCM.

Cheers!

Nice post mad habbits.

Good one Craig

LOL ...................

That of course would be PHISHING ...............

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

exactly what i was wondering - but not the best idea, whatever.

correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that gung-ho Dave towing the van off the beach with a wdh still on? Different situation if I'm looking at the right section.

Yeah possibly Steve, Im not right up there with WDH's etc, Im just watching another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dwnryzrgdgtop end trip, geez he gives them vehicles a hard time, both the 100 series and the prados. I have their latest one with the new 150, glad there not my vehicles lol. I know its all about advertising the van etc but they still cop a flogging but entertaining to watch........But I know the prados on the 120's are not real good and I know a few people who tow nearly to the limits so change over the factory towbar which is still rated to 2.5t. I don't do that heavier towing but if I did I would certainly be changing over myself on my 120 to a hayman reese. Cheers Steve

""But I know the prados on the 120's"" sorry should be ""I know the towbars on the prado 120's"".......................Cheers Steve

[img][/img]

This is what is on mine, genuine toyota rated at 2.5t held on by 4 bolts, my old prado which had genuine also but was previous model/shape had the whole bar go right across the total rear end, to me looked like it was a lot stronger but then Im not an engineer ????

You're right about the 120 tow bar - I have one meself and would upgrade if I was doing the rough stuff. At the moment our van is a soft-roader anyway so I don't tow much that's too adventurous - I just go off with the tent. It's a while since I've seen the Fraser episode but I think the issue was Dave leaving the wdh on, which didn't allow the hitch to flex over a ramp-over due to it's stiffening the rig. Easy to forget but they shouldn't've evn gone on the beach with it on. Goes a bit over the top, Dave - but the trips would be a bit too tame without him. Good entertainment, no ads and I like their honesty with warts n'all family disagreements for good measure.

This is what is on the new 150 prados which is very similiar to what I had on my 2 previous prados (90 series) Looks a lot stronger to me ??

[img][/img]

wait a minute....are you Steve as well or am I getting confused?? LOL

Anyway, that's the one in the first pic - just the standard rig. I've been reassured it's ok for towing as per spec but don't put a wdh on it. Funny that whenever I query the tow bar with Toyota they look all blank and confused as if I'm worrying about nothing - but they still decided to upgrade it on the 150. I haven't priced a full-width bar but would be interested to know.

This would scare the crap out of me if it happened to me ???
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

This is the 120, same as I have. We are doing a big trip hopefully next year but will be hiring a big van to do it (round 20 foot) so Im thinking Im going to update the rear bar to a hayman reese, dont see the point in taking chances and killing myself ,wife and 4 year old, let alone anybody else we are sharing the road with. To me this should have been a recall straight away from Toyota, dont know how they got away with it..........Cheers Steve

Yeah mate steve number 2 lol.....Glenmore Park Sydney........

Now Im looking at it, looks like cast shit to me ??? What happened to solid steel ?? Cheers Steve

there's a lot of em on the road and I've seen that pic of the broken hitch before (or similar) and it was down to the wdh putting too much strain on it. Think it was on Pradopoint.

I think the collective wisdom on Pradopoint decided that as a conventional ball hitch, the cup and ball would part company before it would rip the hitch off the car and it had only ever broken when used with a wdh after asking for other members' experiences.

here you go: a mob in Gladesville doing them fitted for $575



http://www.shop1auto.com.au/New%20towbar%20pages/Towbars_Toyota_Prado.html

Very well put Mountainman. I've seen quite a few posts where some of the correspondance is almost `venomous'.
We should be careful, as some people will not use the forum as designed, purely for the fact they may be ridiculed or taken to task.
It's probably better to keep quiet if you haven't got anything constructive or useful to add. What's the point otherwise??

I have noticed one thing. Most of the contributions that are of the negative and nasty nature are posted by people with no membership profile........

So as a registered user of the site and with no membership profile (I'm not a member) I apparently should say ..............

"Of course it is ok to tow 3000 kg on a 2000 kg system, Phill"

???????

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

Wayne and Sally, I wasn't refering to this posting. In the time I've been using this site I've read quite a lot of forum pieces. It is just something I've noticed. Some replies and exchanges aren't even relevant to the topic. They seem somewhat loaded toward having a dig at the person asking the question, or in other cases, someone adding a point of view.
I am always grateful from any help or feedback I get on this site. If there is a topic discussed that I know something about, I will not diss a person who may have a different point of view. My critiscism was of people posting who offer nothing, be it opinion nor expertise.
I was not asking for permission to tow on a 2000kg system. I was information gathering from the wealth of experienced people on here. As I said earlier, I know my own answer to my question. I was seeking verification that I am correct. With all the responses I have had, I see that my own answer is correct.
I do not like getting into an argument with people without being sure of my facts. From the feedback I've recieved today, said argument will now be pursued, and I am now more qualified to debate topic, without winging it on my own perceptions.
I do hope my view of negative postings isn't misunderstood.

Hi Phill,

Thank you for youe expanded explanation and indicated point of view, VERY good.

We agree that there are some questions asked on this forum, that ponder the question of WHY!! We asked the same in our first reply to your post .... and we were a little flippant in a follow up about "phishing", I digress.

With that in mind, our position as instructors dictate that that any information we hand out ..... in ANY form, must be absolute. This is to protect us and to protect the recipient of the information from using the information presented/given in an inappropriate situation.

As Mother Hen indicated in a follow up......... Bring on Part 2!!

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

P.S. What have you done with Axle??
... and when can we have him back?? .... LOL.
W&S.

Phew.......!!! Glad I cleared that up. Later in the week all will become clearer hopefullly. I should be better able to expand, and then the little bit of fog everyone is experiencing will be lifted. LOL
Also while I am here............can you explain about Axle?

Cheers

Phill

Hi Phill,

We are all good too!!

Axle??

Oh, from time to time he asks questions like yours .......................

normally on a quiet week ....................... lol

All good from here and from us.

Bring on Part 2!!

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

mountainman
Again well put mountainman I am an old bugger but if I knew nothing about setting up or towing a van and went onto a forum and received the crap going on here I would not ask the questions from my so called peers. just hook the van onto the tug and hope like hell I was doing the right thing
Terry

Sorry - part 2

Listen Boobook. You may think it was a stupid question. I explained earlier why it was phrased/put as so.
You don't need to chip in with sarcasm. Pointless.

Theres no need for denigrating replies

So what is the question to which you seek an answer? If it is the legality, then no it is not legal. The towing capacity of a vehicle is the lesser of the manufactures towing specification or the tow hitch, in this case the ball.

Hi Josh. I fully accept what you are saying and will store it in my memory as a lesson for future posts . To be honest I did not expect that people would think I would use this system to tow a van, even as a novice. It just goes to show that the written word can be interpreted several different ways. As I knew what I was talking about it seems simple enough. However, as you say in other people's minds it is not.
It does not however change my view on negative post comments. That view was not expressed purely on this thread. I have seen other postings that I have not been involved in where this kind of negative stuff goes on.
Anyway, I have taken on board everything people have said about the way I have composed this issue and will bare it in mind for the future.