Simpson - Toilet Paper!!!

Hi all,
I've just gotten back from another recovery in the Simpson Desert, the third one in three weeks, & from the first one to todays the increased amount of toilet paper left lying around, beside & even on the tracks is disgusting!

I know that no self respecting ExOzer would do such a thing, but if we all do the right thing & burn (Safely) or properly dispose of our left overs & educate others to also "Do the right thing" then we'll get the message across.

I know that it's always someone else that does it but a gentle nudge to the offenders might have the desired effect, this also goes for all of our tracks Nation wide, but the Simpson Desert is my back yard, so it's pretty close to my heart & upsets me to see it being left in such a state!

Rant over!

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Reply By: Isuzumu - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 17:30

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 17:30
Good onya Jeff, nothing more ugly, a shovel and a match all gone.
Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - Judy and Laurie - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:03

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:03
Hi Jeff, we were up at Cape York last year and stopped off at Gunshot to have lunch and watch . Just behind us in the camping area was exactly that behind a tree the ground was just covered in toilet paper , it made us feel quite ill. It's not hard to be clean most people carry a shovel , but I've never seen anything like this. I'ts such a shame to see this happen.
Cheers Judy and Laurie
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:23

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:23
Judy & Laurie,

Yep! Found the same thing the last time that we were up there (2007) Chilli Beach was the worse, the toilets were full & signposted as such & people were still using them! "it"was above the level of the seats!

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Reply By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:01

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:01
Jeff, Just returned from the Simpson(6th trip) and always use the matches for the toilet paper. When I see paper floating around I hope its from animals digging up for a looksee and not from thoughtless people not digging holes.
On another subject, I have noted there appears to be a lot more under prepared folks travelling. Do you remember the fellow in the Mitsubishi Starwagon who came to Mt Dare and ask you if he needed to have a radio or Satphone and did you think that his vehicle would do the crossing did he need a Desert Parks Pass??, you said Yes "you do and have you prepared the vehicle for the crossing what about extra fuel etc etc" He just looked at you as if you had two heads and walked off. I saw him a few hours later driving out and noted that he turned north to Alice thankfully, otherwise you would have been doing a fourth recovery.

See ya next year before my 2nd Madigan Line crossing

Jeff
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 19:16

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 19:16
I'm glad that he made the right decision, I actually knocked back three other recoveries that I simply could not get out to! They made it out on there own okay.

Out of all the toilet paper "litter" that I saw today, there was one feeble attempt to cover it up by kicking a bit of dirt over the mess!

All of the rest, & I'm talking about a clump every couple of hundred meters between the Colson Junction & Wonga junction on the French line, was simply dropped on the ground, I used to make toilet paper for a living & it was all fresh!

Not much on the Colson Track, but a bit on the WAA line & Rig Road, most of the toilet paper litter seemed to be right beside the tracks, & I'll step out on a limb here & say that it was mostly from the girls having a pat dry after having a wee!

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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 19:22

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 19:22
Interesting that you say that Jeff, I came to the same conclusion after seeing lots of toilet paper at a great camp and no other toilet doings - conclusion is girls. I don't mean to offend the majority of girls who do the right thing but it does seem this way from the evidence.




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Follow Up By: Grumblebum and the Dragon - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 08:43

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 08:43
I agree, some ladies do the right thing and take a little plastic bag with them to store the "tinklle tissues" in and bring them back to the car for later disposal with the other rubbish. They are not a health hazard - urine is sterile!

John
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Follow Up By: Member - Duke (TAS) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 19:49

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 19:49
Fanny flowers are in full bloom on all our Highways and Byways. Have just driven from Darwin to Mareeba and it makes no difference if a toilet is provided they still sprout up over nite. Aaarrrrgh!!!
Duke
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Reply By: Member - Ross N (NSW) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:01

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:01
I'm sure a lot of people bury their paper not realising that dingos & other wild
dogs will dig it up. Answer burn it
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Reply By: Member - Vern (North Haven SA) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:07

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:07
Good onya Jeff.

If people took time to read the information in the Parks Desert pass pack it also mentioned in there that your should burn your paper afterwards.

Surely its not to much to ask.
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Reply By: PJR (NSW) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:22

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 18:22
And then you get the "strange" looks when you say that you carry a portable loo. This is why we carry one.

See you soon Jeff. Three weeks to departure.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 18:00

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 18:00
I think everyone should carry a Porta Loo. If you buy a decent unit, around $150, you can travel with a partially full unit without any problems. There are more and more dump points available as time goes on and if not, it better to dig one hole in the ground than multiple holes along the way for one family. The simple convenience should be enough to convert everyone. Its the best decision we made some years ago.. Michael
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:08

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:08
G'day Jeff

You're having way too much fun up there !


All the best

Gazz
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:19

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:19
Always Gazz, the giggles never stop, wouldn't do anything else!

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Reply By: Member - Tony Z (NSW) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:41

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:41
Hey seen people at a camp (no names) go off with shovel and paper in hand down a walking track, thinking they may do the right thing. Later on they returned, we went for a walk later in the day AND low and behold they sh** on the track in a little hole they had dug but did not cover. On our return I went over to let them no what I had seen and was told to F*** off and leave the site as they will do something ! They were not young (30-40) and the woman was worst, all I wanted was to let them know that they took a shovel so why not cover it, all said in a convivial manner. We did not leave and I stayed up till the early hours just waiting for trouble, I also thought of getting their S*** and returning it to their camp fire which also they left burning but thought better of it. Got up early and played music ( 60's) loud they got the hint and left. Don't mind a punch up ! in my later years.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:52

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 20:52
Fully support your actions Tony and if I had been camping nearby I would have supported you in the cause even if it cost me a blood nose. Our environment and camping pleasure is worth a bit of personal effort.

Cheers


Serendipity


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Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 21:43

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 21:43
Hi Jeff,

Agree its disgusting but it wasn't me or my bride. I dont take any toilet paper, nothing better then roughing it ; ).
I remember seeing a couple of loo papers on my 1st simo trip in the early 90's but I guess with the increased number of people going bush that its gonna increase.

It hard to take when its one place that I feel at home.
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Reply By: Member - nick b - Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 23:09

Friday, Jul 20, 2012 at 23:09
Good day all : 1st up , as more and more people are getting out camping this is going to get worse .....and most might be from the cities they may need some educating into the art of bush camping . This will be especially bad when every ones camping in the same place .

The other thing is the paper its self , its said to last for a long time before braking down . so maybe need a quick brake down type paper ....." soluble "

we went to a station stay camp on the coast of W.A recently where they insist on porta a loo !!! but interesting when you go to there dump ( of all unwanted ) , a big hole in the ground .....what a bloody mess ...paper etc going everywhere and only a sort distances to the sea .... I think we all need to start thinking about these things .....

cheers nick
Cheers Nick b
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 09:07

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 09:07
Agree with you Nick that education is needed. This sign at a big free camp in northern WA is on the right track although the bit about burying paper needs attention.Image Could Not Be Found

The bit about burning paper is problematic too as at least some TP is quite hard to burn unless you add a bit of dry grass - and then unless you are careful you could risk the fire getting out of control.

A ziplock plastic bag that is properly disposed of is the easy answer, and its an idea that needs to be spread far and wide. Since toilet paper is often called "white butterflies" I like the idea of calling the plastic bag a "butterfly cage".

Never go into the bushes without a butterfly cage!

Perhaps Jeff could sell butterfly cages at the Mt Dare Pub (along with instructions for use and disposal). That might reach those folk who just need a bit of an educational nudge?

Cheers,

Val
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Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 01:17

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 01:17
So easy to pack the used paper into a small freezer bag, flatten and seal it - next to no weight to carry and no odour. That goes for the ladies too - if you can't take the tissue back with you, don't use one! Simple isn't it?

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Reply By: Pebble - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:45

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:45
Those Nappy Sacks you buy when you have kids to dispose of dirty nappies are very good for camping, disposing of toilet paper and other waste and they're even not bad as mini rubbish bags for the car!

I can't imagine it would be always easy to burn wet toilet paper....remember ladies use it for no1's too.

Ha ha maybe at entry points they should provide plastic bags like the ones they do in public places where you're to pick up dog poo after your pet.....the dog bags are very similar to the Nappy Sacks I'm talking about actually.
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Reply By: River Swaggie - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 16:55

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 16:55
One word: "Filthy Pigs" and it covers all ages too...
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 18:59

Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 18:59
That's 2 words? :-) but true anyway
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Reply By: Rockape - Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 19:15

Saturday, Jul 21, 2012 at 19:15
Jeff,
I think you may have missed the survival side of this.

They leave the paper so it can be used like the breadcrumbs on a GPS.

What you do when you are lost, you stop and sniff each piece of paper. When you smell your scent you know which way to go.

Mate! I lived rough for many years but some of the grubs out there even open my eyes.


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Reply By: Life Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 07:22

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 07:22
Ozrover

I too don't agree with with the way people leave rubbish around, it's not just in the deserts but in rest areas and truck parking bays, it sure don't look good, but in an enviromental way I don't mind the paper, it comes from trees and in a short time will be shredded and with a bit of rain on it it'll go back to the ground from where it came. As for the crap in the heat is dries and crumbles and also returns to the ground, the only problem is ...there seems to be a never ending supply...lol. What I do not like to see left is the plastics and bottles, I have picked up Beer bottles dated 1942/3/4/5 around Mt Bundy and they are still in perfect condition, so to me these bottles will still be there in a 1000 years or more... great for collectors.
On my travels recently I stopped at a parking bay and see a disposable nappy left on the side about 20m from a bin, there's no need for that.


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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 09:00

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 09:00
Doug,

I agree up ta o a point about the "decomposables" dissapearing in a relatively short time, my problem is with the irresponsibility of people who claim to love the great outdoors & then proceed to leave rubbish all over it!

It is such a simple matter to dig a small trench, deposit your buisness in it, wipe up, burn the paper then fill it back in, someone mentioned that some toilet paper is hard to burn & I agree that wet wipes are even harder, so whats wrong with having a small bottle of lighter fluid in your toilet bag (I have one) as well as a disposable lighter, & giving it all a squirt before lighting it?

As far as plastic/glass/aluminium/tin artifacts being left behind, it's just not on, they need to take these things away with them when they leave, after all they brought them in!

I mentioned to Dave a couple of years ago about some of the rubbish being left behing in the desert & we stopped & had a look at one clump that was beng exposed by the wind, & guess what, it mostly consisted of old steel beer cans, bottles & some paper! I don't know how long ago it had been buried but I havn't seen steel beer cans since the mid 70's.

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Reply By: Sigmund - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:29

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:29
There are some busy walking routes in US parks where you're required to take in and use a PVC poo tube. And carry your own waste out.

Will happen here too eg. on the High Plains where in winter some ski tourers can't be bothered to dig down beside a tree, and where some replacement huts have been built without a dunny. The spring thaw reveals fluttering brown stips of paper; can be near creeks or aqueducts. Stupid.
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Reply By: Wayne's 60 - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 13:20

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 13:20
Hi Jeff,

We have to agree that it is pretty disgusting the way people leave their personal dump sites and it is done with no regard to the people who follow.
Thursday Rock was one experience we had with lazy people, the mushroom and warning flag were in the middle of the car park with no attempt to even dig a token hole or to cover it.

With the greatest respect to yourself and all the other posters on this thread, we still can't believe that there is the "burn it" view on toilet paper.

Sorry to say that common sense does NOT prevail and some people don't understand the "Safely" aspect either.

There are a number of stories where people have been charged with lighting fires to dispose of their toilet paper, that have caused damage, both in Australia and the USA.

It is being reported that there are more and more places where it is a condition of entry to carry a port-a-loo, although that too has its limitations and short falls.

We agree with Motherhen's comments about bagging it, at the end of the day it is a very very simple way to stop litter. If people are a little queasy about doing this - maybe they should stay at home with their flushing toilet.

FWIW the Nation Council (ANFWDC) and 4WD Victoria do NOT promote the burning of toilet paper, where other high profile 4WDing people do and possibly it is time for the Parks Desert pass pack to change its information too.

Regards,
Wayne & Sally.
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 13:59

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 13:59
Hi Wayne and Sally,

Agree with you about burning TP - it can be difficult and at times of fire bans simple illegal.

Bagging TP and wet wipes in a ziplock plastic bag is the way to go - providing that people then dispose of the bags, preferably by burning. But again, there will be times when they will have to go in a bin, but as they are sealed up there should be no problem.

A few years ago we acted as camp hosts for a scientific expedition that camped out on aboriginal land for a few days. We had to dig a big hole for a communal toilet, but at the owners request all paper was to be bagged. That arrangement worked very well, and when the camp was packed up one of the final jobs was to burn a bag of used paper. Final result - a few ashes, happy owners and campers knowing that they had left virtually no trace of their presence. It can be done.

But I do agree that a consistent message and method is definitely needed. Maybe EO could run a poll on the preferred method of disposal and help to spread the message.

Cheers,

Val.
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 14:33

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 14:33
Hi Guys,

Your right there are other ways to dispose of toilet waste & as I said in my original post "burn (safely) or properly dispose of".

If a personal hole/trench is dug & the area cleared of any combustable material, then I don't see the problem with burning it!

Common sense being quite rare at times, I don't see this issue going away no matter how much legislation is put in place to try & prevent it.

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Follow Up By: Wayne's 60 - Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 01:52

Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 01:52
Hi Jeff,

An interesting thread you have started and a passionate debate at that, coupled with the fact that there has been little "nastiness" in replies.

Yes, you did indicate
"Your (sic) right there are other ways to dispose of toilet waste & as I said in my original post "burn (safely) or properly dispose of". End quote.

It is a pity that "safely" and "common sense" are too little on the ground these days.

There is little that people will take ownership of these days and we would suggest that yourself, Doug T and Wayne David (to name a few) would agree.

It appears that the "I'm ok" group, the "you can't tell me what to do" group and the "someone else will come and get me" groups, override the "Common Sense", "Basic Safety" and "Well prepared" groups of traveller.

It appears that this small group of narrow minded selfish people will have an overbearing effect on all travellers, in much the same way that few (Perth) drivers take responsibility for their actions.

Hence the necessity for more speed cameras (all of us speed) and for more "Red light cameras (all of us drive through red lights).

It may be interesting to hold a poll on the question of "To burn" or "Not to burn" (forgive me Shakespear)!!

We look forward to seeing you on a (Clean) track, very soon!!

Regards,
Wayne & Sally.



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Reply By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:36

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:36
Hi Jeff.

Just completed another Hay river trip.
I was disappointed at the state of the QAA line. Worst I have seen it.
For the first time on the Hay the toilet paper and general rubbish was everywhere.
That part of the desert "was" my favourite place to travel.

regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:42

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:42
Oh!
For those that not the camper in my profile.
The camper stays home on the Hay river trips.

Safe travels.
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Reply By: Nigel Migraine - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:39

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 16:39
I see this behaviour far too frequently in the bush.

There are a lot of human pigs around (apologies to real pigs) and, no doubt, many of them will be reading this forum and thread - do you crap on your lawn? When you go to a friends BBQ do you crap in their lounge room? I suspect you do not.

In which case bury your waste and burn or take home your toilet paper because the majority of us who have respect for ourselves and others despise your habits and probably you too.

You are a disgrace.
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Reply By: guy007 - Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 18:16

Sunday, Jul 22, 2012 at 18:16
Hi all,
Dont you just love it!
Just back from 9540k of out back travel.
Not only did we see mass evidence of toilet paper but a worrying new trend.
The new toilet paper is "WET ONES" with a half life of 10000 years.
Guy
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Reply By: Mudguard - Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:39

Monday, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:39
Yes well said all, just back from the CSR that to has a LOO problem with the added threat of SPINIFEX fires started from flying toilet paper!(which was upwind of a tour group in swags!) They have designed rubbish bags to fit over your 4wd's spare tyre recon they should add a smaller 1 on the bottom for the loo bits. cheers
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2012 at 09:05

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2012 at 09:05
Mudguard,

Good idea about the extra smaller pouch on the spare wheel garbage bag! Maybe one or more of the manufacturers could look into it.

I has been said before common sense is quite a rare commodity, anyone who would burn anything in spinifex country in a wind needs a slap!

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Reply By: ann40 - Sunday, Jul 29, 2012 at 20:28

Sunday, Jul 29, 2012 at 20:28
Hi,Jeff,can only agree with you on toilet paper as 6 of us in 3 vehicles all commented on the same thing while crossing the simpson couple weeks ago,also much thanks to staff for very informative info before our crossing(we was there to get fuel the only time you ran out but it was friday the 13 haha),made the trip with no problems and enjoyed it lots,thanks again,peter.
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