How will a standard LC 200 go crossing the Simpson?

To those who have driven the Simpson in a Land Cruiser I am interested to understand how a relatively standard LC will handle the crossing please.

I am planning to do the trip in my diesel GXL Land Cruiser. I have added a bull bar, winch, lights, UHF but not yet lifted or upgraded the tyres. Do I need to do this to make the trip? I will travel fairly lightly.

Thanks Bluey
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 00:22

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 00:22
G'day Bluey,

Your Cruiser should see it as 'a walk in the park' literally.
Don't see a need to "lift" it. A standard Landcruiser should have plenty of clearance.

What tyres are you running? The most important thing is to lower the pressure to at least 18psi. Be prepared to go down to even 15psi if the sand is hot and dry.

The other essential accessory is a good dune-flag so oncoming vehicles will see you before you crest the dune. Be sure it is 4m high, at the front of the vehicle, and doesn't lay back far due to forward motion.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:23

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:23
Hi Allan

Many thanks for your fast reply and great to learn from your experience and I will ensure I get a quality flag and keep it pointing upwards!!

Re the tyres I am currently running the factory equipped Dunlop Grandtrek AT22's on 17 rims. Toyota are using them on the FJ's and LC and I think a similar version on the Parados. They appeared to be more of a road tyre so I checked the Dunlop website though found no real information. I have emailed Dunlop today to see how they stand up at low PSI though so far no answer. I will share if they respond.

Cheers
Bluey
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:45

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:45
Bluey, The AT22's should do fine at lowered pressure on sand. Perhaps not the most robust tyre for rough tracks with rocks but fine for highway and sand.

The whole objective of lowering tyre pressure for sand is to increase the tyre's footprint and aid flotation. When the tyre pressure is lowered to 20psi and below, the sidewalls are considerably flexing with each revolution so a more flexible sidewall will generate less heat. Of course, your speed would also be significantly less under those conditions which compensates to some degree. Tyres with stronger sidewalls are less likely to be staked but do generate more heat at low pressure due to flexing of the sidewalls.

I am currently running Cooper S/T. A reasonably wide tyre with flexible sidewalls. They perform well for my heavily laden Troopy on soft sand but they chip and wear rapidly on rocky roads. I have tyre pressure/temperature monitors fitted and have observed no more temperature increase at low pressure with low speed than at high pressure & high speed.

Of course, it is necessary to carry a reliable air compressor to reinflate your tyres. Get the largest you can afford or be prepared to wait long times to get the pressures back up.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 08:53

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 08:53
Thanks Allan for the advice and education, its interesting and makes good sense.Dunlop never came back to me, I hope their tyres as a lot better than there zero customer service. Either way I will post an update once I have made the trip.

Cheers
Bluey
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:36

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:36
Bluey

You are going to have a ball. Both in setting the car up and actually going on drives. You wont get it right the first time so be prepared to acknowledge "Hmm Maybe that was not a good buy".

Just a variation on Allans post. For tyre pressures, we ran 20 PSI front and 26 PSI rear all the way from Oodnadatta, up past Finke to Chambers then through Mt Dare and Andando, the Simpson to near Birdsville. That works for our heavy 100 series with Cooper ST Max's 285,/75/16 tyres on the rocky roads in the Victorian high country and gravelly roads, corrugations and sand. We have also never had trouble in water or mud either.

About the compressor. I wouldn't necessarily go the biggest. Time in the outback is nothing. Look at where it is goiung to be stored, what you are going to use it for (lockers etc) and how big or small your budget is.

We got just the ARB CKMA12 – High Output On-Board model and it is installed in a void beside the drawers in the back of the car with a bulkhead outlet mounted right near the tailgate.

Phil
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Follow Up By: rainbowprof - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 11:36

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 11:36
The sidewinder compressor came up as the best bang for your buck in 4wd action magazine (vol 31) comparison. 3rd best for 1/4 the price of the very expensive ones and only a fraction slower the the ones at the very top. Stand by their guarantee too. I'm a satisfied customer not a sales rep. Very worthwhile accessory IMHO. The online vendor offers exploroz discounts as I recall... My 10c.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 12:44

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 12:44
Phil,

Lowering tyre pressure is not just about "never having trouble". Its also about minimising track damage. You may well succeed in climbing dunes with 20/26 psi but you may also be leaving some track damage behind for following vehicles to cope with. There is no honour in managing with the highest pressure possible. Any more than those who proclaim that they can "do it in 2WD".

The Ranger at Dalhousie Springs told me that he runs at 15psi all round at all times....... and I would think he would know what he is doing.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 14:29

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 14:29
Phil,

We run 305/70/16 Cooper S/T and on our trip across the Simpson we ran 16 in the front and 17 psi in the back. We weigh in at 3170KG two up with a full fuel and water load. To get to that weight we carry only the bare essentials.

At those pressures and tyre width we get good flotation and do minimal damage to the dunes.

At your own admission you are running about 600kg overweight and at 20/26 psi on fairly narrow tyres there must be some dune damage.

Lyn
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Sep 03, 2012 at 23:01

Monday, Sep 03, 2012 at 23:01
Lyn

I would not call 285 tyres "fairly narrow tyres". That's a bit below the belt and not called for. They are the widest that the RTA will permit to be fitted to my car and two tyre sizes wider than fitted at sale. I would love to know what you drive?

One trick I learnt a few decades back was to look at your tyre marks to see if you are running a reasonable pressure. I do and I am.

Re our weight: One day I will weigh the car. It's all been a guess so far. You never know I may be legal and surprise even you!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 04:49

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 04:49
Lyn

I will apologise for having a go at you in my previous post. Also as one of your posts was removed I also think that I upset you and you responded in like manner.

As any other woman who read my posts would know, I have an incurrable cancer. It does not allow my blood to be fully oxygenised and thus I do not have much energy and can not climb or walk far. This series of trips are a real bucket list. We do not want to damage the environment and even carry our own toilet, wood and a large rubbish bin on the rear spare. No waste in the desert. No collecting wood that may be a home for the local fauna, nor leaving the beer can on the side of the camp ground etc etc.

The chemo also stuffed up some of the old brain waves and I get a little carried away. I tend to exagerate, as a lot of men do. Especially fishermen about their catch. Life at home must be a real pain for my wife, but she doesn't complain.

Thus I get "protective" and tend to missread posts.

Cheers

Phil

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 09:56

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 09:56
Hi

As has been discussed many times before the width of the tyre is irrelevant (past a certain point well below the width of available tyres for 4WDs) for sand driving...its the LENGTH of the tyre footprint that is important - reduced pressures increase the length of the tyre footprint which dramatically improves performance in sand..any increase in width (existing or caused as a result of reducing pressures) is inconsequential from a performance point of view - they may look better though :)

A “wide” tyre at the wrong pressure is just as bad a “narrow” tyre at the wrong pressure in sand. At a guess I would say "damage" to dunes is mainly caused by people with the wrong tyre pressures ...not by those with "narrow" tyres.

Nothing wrong with Phils tyre choice (with respect to width) IMHO. My tyres are even narrower (235, albeit a smaller car) – no problem on “sand” at the right pressure.

Cheers
Greg
Sandgroper
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:07

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 11:07
Hi Greg,

Tyre width can be discussed and postulated upon until the cows come home.
However you cannot refute the basic physics relating to the pressure resulting from a force supported by an area. Therefore the support offered by a tyre is directly proportional to its contact area which is length x width in contact with the ground.

Where the observations can fail is the apparent increase in width with deflation which is primarily the sidewall bulge offering little or no support in the contact area. However a wider tread area must give more support than a narrower one, deflated or not. It is fundamental. This is not to say that it provides better traction, that is a more complex subject.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 12:09

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 12:09
Hi

Sorry, that’s what I thought we are talking about ..."traction". Wasn’t refuting that a wider tyre may have more support when parked up – but things change when you apply drive to the tyre and this fact then becomes irrelevant. The theory behind it all is of no consequence - my opinion of the subject has been substantiated by extensive "field trials". I have never had any problems with vehicles using "narrow/skinny" (whatever these terms actually mean) tyres in sand (e.g. standard hilux road grippers are fine).

When driving on “soft sand” you are almost always obliged to reduce tyre pressures from standard road pressures irrespective of how wide your tyres are. If there is any advantage with "wide" tyres with respect to traction on sand it is too small to measure/notice. If there is an advantage how come you still need to let your tyres down? If you put ”wide” tyres on your car and they are better than the “skinny” tyres you had previously ..it is not because they are wider it is because of some other inherent characteristic of the tyre you are choosing to ignore (e.g. larger rolling diametre = longer footprint).

My understanding of the subject is that the length of footprint is most critical (for sand) as that is the direction of drive force - the more sand you are contact with in the forward back direction, the more friction exists between sand grains in this direction… this is how the increase traction is obtained...and less chance of tyre spinning. IMPORTANT FACT: This friction threshold is easily reached with “skinny” tyres by reduced air pressure. Any advantage a wider tyre may have in this respect (because it is wider) does not contribute enough (if any) to this requirement and therefore width makes so significant difference in capabilities with respect to traction on sand.

Anyway – again – bottom line – don’t forget to wave when you see me drive past you on the sand while you are letting your wide tyres down…just like we all have to :)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:02

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:02
No Greg, we were actually discussing track damage.

Your:...."The theory behind it all is of no consequence...." In other words, do not confuse me with facts, my mind is made up. Anyway, I was not spouting theory, I was expressing long-established physics.

Your dissertation makes several expressions but none are supported by established scientific facts. They are purely empirical opinion and may or may not be correct.

This "Length" of footprint is frequently touted as being the significant element whereas it is actually the significant result of lowering tyre pressure rather than any width increase. So the footprint area increases, but it would equally increase if you were able to widen the footprint by a similar amount.

Be quite clear, I am NOT saying that lowering tyre pressure increases the width of the footprint, but I am saying that if you CAN increase the width then you also increase the footprint and therefore the flotation which is essential to avoid terrain damage.

If width played little or no part in flotation then why do they manufacture tyres such as these?




Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:36

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:36
Hi

More traction = less wheel spin = less track damage...or have I got it wrong? Is this what they call semantics? Apologies if my experience in driving in sand doesn’t qualify as being worthy of mention - and yes my mind is made up. Wasnt try to pass off my comments as proven scientifc fact, just my attempt to explain why skinny tyres are fine..if I have the explantion bit wrong it doesnt change the fact that you can drive around on sand with skinny tyres. You will have trouble convincing me that "narrow" tyres don’t work as well as "wide" tyres in sand at reduced pressures (Ive done it - thats a scientific fact :) and are therefore are not suitable for driving in the Simpson or any other sandy place (because they may cause track damage or you’ll get bogged).

If the tyres are not spinning they are not spinning...i.e. no track damage..the threshold for adequate traction is easy reached with skinny tyres and wide tyres by reducing tyre pressure. (I am talking about currently available tyres generally used by the 4WD fraternity for currently available 4WD vehicles...not push bike tyres on a 200 series or moon buggie tyres on a Vitara)

No real idea why they make that tyre or for what application. Figure they are designed to reduce pressure at any one point to reduce damage e.g. golf green/lawn or prevent sinking e.g. swampy ground - they don’t appear to be a sand tyre. If it is for a 4WD to increase is ability in sand they would have been better off fitting a set of these:




:)

See you in the dunes with my skinny tyres while at the same time doing no extra track damage :)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:58

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 13:58
Hi again ..just a thought - what do you (or others) consider to be a "wide" tyre and what is a "skinny" tyre?

What minimium tyre width (again sticking to real world applications for existing vehicles/tyres) would result in "track damage" irrespective of tyre pressure?

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 14:37

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 14:37
........"yes my mind is made up."

OK, I won't waste any more of my time then.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 14:51

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 14:51
"........"yes my mind is made up."

Ive driven around in sand with skinny tyres including up dunes 5 x bigger than Big Red.. no problems - how can my mind not be made up - was I dreaming? If my attempt to expalin why I could do this (sand grain friction in direction of drive force/long tyre footprint blah blah) is incorrect I have happy to be corrected on this matter....but it doesnt change the fact that you can drive around on sand with "skinny" tyres by reducing pressure..and not cause any more track damage compared to someone with wider tyres (who still has to reduce tyre pressure as well ..and if they dont will cause "track damage".) Width of tyre doesnt matter (4WD sand driving application) - its the pressure...my mind is indeed made up on this matter and if you were in fact trying to alter it, good choice to bail out.

No harm done - happy travels.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 15:12

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 15:12
For once I am laughing. I usually get hung up in one of these, shall we say, "discussions. And this time it isn't me. I am not laughing at you guys just at the relief I feel that it isn't me.

Have a good day.

Phil
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 15:21

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 15:21
Good to see it had some value..

Enough of this ..back to work..got to save up for some wide tyres (and maybe some physics lessons).

Cheers
Greg.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 17:32

Tuesday, Sep 04, 2012 at 17:32
Hi Greg

I actually seen a show on tv many years ago that supports you experiences.

It was when wide tyres were just starting to get popular and they were measuring the actual contact area.
It was shown that when pressure is reduced your normal split rim type tyres had a larger contact area than wider tyres with reduced pressure.
If I remember correctly it was due to the side wall on the wider radials bulgied but the tread length did not increase, whereas the split rim tyres would lengthen the tread instead of bulging which gave a larger footprint.

Chris
AussieHF touring club. 1089
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 07:50

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 07:50
Hi Bluey

Just like Allan has replied, the Simpson is a good easy drive if you know how to drive a four wheel drive. There is no need to do the $50 million dollar vehicle trip upgrade. The only things that do should have is a sand flag, UHF radio on channel 10 and a valid Desert Parks Pass, and of course low tyre pressures and make sure that you engage four wheel drive.



Cheer


Stephen
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AnswerID: 493901

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:25

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:25
Thanks Stephen,

Its good to get some honest feedback and head out there prepared!!

Cheers
Bluey
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 08:58

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 08:58
Bluey

Piece of cake mate. We drove through the WAA line then the QAA line a wek ago. The sand is very soft and the eastern approaches to the dunes are quite rough with large hole to test out the flexibility of your suspension. No need to race up. Just use the right gears so that you gently crest the dunes to catch those coming the other way without warning. Yes!! Some don't care.

Add some jerry cans somewhere. Even if you borrow a roof rack try not to put them inside. Tyres. The boys above will be shocked by this but we did it with 26 rear and 20 front. But we have wide tyres. And with almost 4 ton all up (GVM hats that) we got 24 per 100 and used all the 90 litres. Our car is permanently set up with the lot for self sufficient long trips anywhere. So we are heavy. Also as you are not welcome collecting wood in the park we took our own from home. Four bags of the Bunnings stuff. That was another 80Kgs. Add the toilet, roof top etc etc etc and it is easy to be over.

But the standard 100 series will do it easily. We did not get over 20 kph until the few salt flats so its is a comfortable 4 day drive with three nights camping under a pristine sky. You should love it.

Please dont let me preach if you already know all this.

Have fun

Phil

AnswerID: 493903

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 09:26

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 09:26
I meant to ad we have the 4.2TD auto LC.

A few photos and panoramas here:
Trip photo Flinders NT, Simpson, Chambers and Lambert Center

Flowers:
Flowers of the desert

Camping:


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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:35

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:35
Hi Phil

Looks like you had a great, I checked out your photos!! Thanks for the tips and pointers above, they all make sense and I will use then as I get organised.

Cheers
Bluey
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 21:00

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 21:00
The best time was in the evening beside the fire after supper with a good cuppa and stars you would not believe. Enjoy!!

It's not hard just needs good preparation, some common sense and a respect for being remote.

Phil
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Follow Up By: rainbowprof - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:44

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:44
I agree with PJR but the speed can vary between 20 - 40 kms depending on your mood and the conditions. Each to their own. Keep that fishing rod and red flag hoisted high... The French Line can get pretty busy. Other routes are more of a personal experience.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 07:20

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 07:20
WE followed the WAA line then down to Lone Gum and up to the French and then of course the QAA out to Birdsville. Only because it is less travelled and was supposed to be the hardeset. We saw one car in the first two days and then after Lone Gum about 6 plus a dozen bikes until Big Red where the "crowds" were. Didn't bother with Big Red.

The only times we were over 20K were the few salt flats and a couple of inter dune spots. The road was smooth but up and down over heaps of "speed bump like" large undulations. ALL the way. I would consider that you may do what we did in three days.

Make sure your shock absorbers don't overheat and break down. It was a real roller coaster. Our Bilsteins were bloody hot and rested at least twice a day. Its hard work for them. Worse that corrugations with the big movement they have to endure.

If you wish to change then consider what a bloke who does a lot of recoveries in the Simpson uses. He has Old man Emu nitro shock sports. And completely satisfied with them. We are moving to them if the Bilsteins break. That's if they do.

Phil
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Reply By: wombat100 - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 14:59

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 14:59
I saw a near standard Suzuki 'Mighty Boy' cross the Simpson back in 2002 !!!

AnswerID: 493924

Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 15:04

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 15:04
PJR

What were you driving that weighed 4 ton ??
how does your insurance stand up in an accident???
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:32

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:32
Geoff

I said "almost". It could be around 3800Kg I have not weighed it as I prefer not to know and hope I do not get stubng. I would also guess that most self sufficient 4WD's (Patrols/LCs) that are not tied to a van or trailer etc are also ove. So I heard the other day when we were looking at yupping the GVM.

I also added the wood we took from home at 80KG. It all adds up Geoff.

It's a 100 series 4.2TD.

Whether it's a stock LC or mine it really doesn't change the message in this thread so I wonder why you asked?
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Follow Up By: Member - VickiW - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:51

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:51
You may want a compressor so you can pump up tyres later, an extra spare (in case) and if you want some creature comforts, a fridge (for cold water of course) which would then require a spare battery - or a good esky with solid ice blocks as we did on our first simpson trip 15 yrs ago (when you only saw 2 cars / day - those were the days).

Otherwsie LC will walk it in (don't forget a spade for my type of moments changing mind on direction mid dune).
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 21:07

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 21:07
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 08:59

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 08:59
Thanks Guys

I have a nice compressor based on 4WD Action review and it seems to work well for the size and price and will definitely take my shovel and the recovery gear.

Cheers
Bluey
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Follow Up By: rainbowprof - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 11:40

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 11:40
looks like you read it too. K1 line is definitely worth a look. Our favorite part.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 17:13

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 17:13
I reckon if you take the lights, winch and bull bar off, it will be even easier :-)

Cheers,
Peter
AnswerID: 493933

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:44

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:44
You might be right Peter

But with Murphy's Law around one corner somewhere in Australia I won't know till I have done it.

Cheers
Bluey
Ps I like you sense of humour, dryer than the Simo I expect
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Reply By: 2517 - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 17:50

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 17:50
Hi you will have plenty of fuel in your two tank,have done it 3 times in 80 series turbo and used around 115 to 120.
AnswerID: 493936

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:48

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:48
Many thanks.

Cheers Bluey
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Follow Up By: rainbowprof - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:40

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:40
Very true 2517. But 1 jerry can if you want to detour and follow the K1 and go up and down Big Red 10 times at speed. You can empty your jerry can into your tank on the 1 st day and stick it on your roof and have that extra peace of mind.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 07:12

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 07:12
Bluey

In the future you may find it worthwhile, maybe not a financial benefit though, but worthwhile to invest in a long range fuel tank. We have one that carries 125 litres of diesel and 55 litres of water. The water is pumped up as required to the rear of the drawers in the back. Of course to a nice chromed water faucet. Why not a bit of "bling"!!

No worries on any trip about fuel. We also take water from home and after the Simpson Desert we still had 5 litres of "home" water in it. No worries about "Bali belly" from "other" water. I have cancer for which the chemo stuffed my immune system. It is weak so I have to be careful. But it is a bonus drinking ones "normal" water. Good for our Canning trip soon. For the Simpson we filled up at My Dare and then could have made it to Marree via Birdsville and the desert if we wished. But we do top up occasionally. Then a top up in Broken Hill which got us comfortable home to Canberra.

Losing the spare tyre underneath is a concern. But touch wood the singlwe spare on the back will do. Last flat was 40 years ago so "touch wood" the single on the rear carrier will do.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:04

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:04
Sounds like a nice set up Phil, and one I will look into long term. All the best in beating your cancer mate, and enjoy your trip down the CSR!!

Cheers
Bluey
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Reply By: cookie1 - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:43

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:43
I have a 200 GX Landcruiser - it will be easy, the tyres are probably well suited, when I did the Canning I turned off the RSCA and the traction control as it proved to be a PITA. You should be OK in 4H reading what PJR has put up but agree with Stephen, tyres pressures rule.

I would suggest every now and again (not every dune) when you get to the top stop for a moment, take in the scenery put a call out over the radio and have a look in the direction you're going for any vehicles ahead - this saves any suprises.

If it is the first time out there - you will love it and be hooked for evermore

Cheers

Colin
AnswerID: 493941

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:45

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:45
On another note, be wary of lifting your cruiser just now as there may be an issue with the CV's once lifted - I am following a thread on another forum with keen interest on this subject.
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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:53

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 19:53
G'Day Colin

Thanks for the reassurance and the tips, I have taken note and yes it will be my first time out there!

I will go cautiously on the lift, its not in the budget for now and I will do more research if that changes. Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers
Bluey
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FollowupID: 769588

Follow Up By: rainbowprof - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 05:32

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 05:32
I believe a 2 " lift is only around $500 fitted (eg Terrain Tamer) new heavy duty springs and trouble -free running. Still comfortable carrying a load or not. Never bottom out.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 13:31

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 13:31
Bluey

You won't need a lift for the Simpson.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:11

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:11
Thanks Gents
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Reply By: RobAck - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:44

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:44
Some pretty solid advice all round but a few things to add

Tyres. If you are going to change them I suggest LT rating rather than standard load rating to cope with any additional weight and to reduce the risk of punctures to some degree. Weight of the vehicle whist in the Simpson is not that relevant to tyre pressures. Stick to around 16 front and 18 rear and you should be pretty much OK but over and above anything else if you have not done a sand driving course then consider completing one prior to the trip. You will learn a lot

If travelling along then hire a satphone at Birdsville and hand it back at Mt Dare or Ooodnadatta.

I think you will find that once you begin to calcluate the amount of gear you need to carry it may come as a surprise. We normally carry around 4-600kg including water, food and spares and that is as a tour leader so we are a bit heavy. Visit a weigh bridge with what you think you will carry then check your GVM

We've taken plenty of stock 4WD across over the years without too many issues. It's all about the drivers attitude, correct tyre pressures and being prepared to back down a dune to add a bit more momentum rather then flooring it and ripping up the track

Enjoy the trip

Regards

RobA
AnswerID: 493946

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:14

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:14
Thanks RobA. Stock it will be.

Cheers
Bluey
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Reply By: muffin man - Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:46

Thursday, Aug 30, 2012 at 20:46
It will cruise.
This year we went across the simo and it was very easy. We commented in another post about a Toyota Kluger which did an east-west qaa/french line this year and they made it easy.
Go for it.
MM
AnswerID: 493947

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:17

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:17
Good to know MM. I shall go for it.
Cheers
Bluey
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FollowupID: 769703

Reply By: rainbowprof - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:35

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 04:35
I just crossed Simpson twice in August in 80 series GXL Cruiser. It's turbo and auto. It was surprisingly easy. I used the fuel that fit in my tanks (135 l) from east to west on the French Line and used 1 extra jerry can of 20 l coming back on a more extended route along the much more interesting and less travelled K1. I had 2" raised suspension and new shockies that made the trip very comfortable. I don't think the lift was imperative but made us feel more confident. We had seven people in the vehicle and a well-loaded roof rack. The car was jam-packed. We ran about 18 psi all round and the vehicle is full time 4wd. I used low range (which locks the diffs ) maybe 3 times. It was rarely necessary as going a little faster with more impetus was more helpful on the few very sandy steeper dunes. I am not an experienced sand driver but the trip was easy. Our driveway on our property is more difficult when it rains than our Simpson crossings (our driveway is poorly maintained with virtually no other traffic). The 2 inch lift was more for my driveway than the Simpson. I do recommend Bilstein shockies if you ever have some spare cash for extra comfort and control . Your cruiser will find the trip a breeze. It was great fun and Dalhousie Springs are excellent. There is a lot of wildlife, birds and flora abounds. Enjoy. Take lots of water and a few packs of wet wipes are a pleasing luxury. And a tool kit with sockets , open enders, cheater bar, etc. Crossing it twice is better than once.
AnswerID: 493960

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:21

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:21
Thanks Rainbowprof, it sounds like you have quite a driveway!! I will definitely take the wipes, nothing like a simple shower while camping.

Cheers
Bluey
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FollowupID: 769704

Reply By: Paul and Mel - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:04

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:04
put it this way, if a stock subaru forester with a quality a/t tyre only did it with ease the 200 will walk it in....
AnswerID: 493977

Reply By: DaveO*ST-R - Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 21:39

Friday, Aug 31, 2012 at 21:39
Bluey,

I have a TTD 200 series as well. Power wise - easy, very easy. Tyres - through the desert you will probably be fine. When I did the Simpson, albeit in my old Navara, I ruined a factory fitted non LT tyre on a gibber section of the Birdsville track, about 80 k's out of Birdsville. With the standard tyres on the 200 not being of LT construction, the sidewalls maybe pretty ordinary, so be careful. I was driving like Miss Daisy, but with lowered tyre pressures for gravel road driving, still slashed a sidewall. Those gibber rocks are as sharp as !! I have just got back from Cape York and changed the tyres before I went as I don't think they would have managed up there too well, but for the Simpson, a different story I think.

I have OME suspension on mine, but I would have thought standard suspension would do the Simpson without any dramas. As stated, there are some reports of some 200's doing mainly LHF CV joints - appears only with after market "lift" causing increased CV joint angles and with traction control activating and abruptly stopping the spinning wheel, so I am now somewhat paranoid in not attacking anything too hard.

With a bull bar - approach angles should not be a problem. Departure angle is not great on the 200, especially with the underslung spare tyre etc, but you should be fine. I scrape my tow hitch every now and then, but no damage etc.

Fuel wise, even with the 138 litre tank/s you will probably use that and more, so I assume you will be taking a jerry or 2? My 200 loves drinking diesel in the sand !!

As for performance, as stated in another reply, I would also suggest turning ATC off (hold the button for 3 seconds) because if you get wheel spin, the ATC will kick in and there goes your momentum and forward motion !! Also as stated, I turn off RSCA when it gets a bit rough, just in case !!! I'd hate a side airbag to go off half way up a dune !!

A brief overview, but have a great trip.

Dave
AnswerID: 494044

Follow Up By: Bluey C - Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:30

Saturday, Sep 01, 2012 at 09:30
Many thanks Dave,

Yes I was planning on playing it safe with a couple of jerry cans and I hope the tyres will make it through!!

Cheers
Michael
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FollowupID: 769705

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