Caravanners sitting on 80km/hr on main roads

Submitted: Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 21:40
ThreadID: 98665 Views:10061 Replies:42 FollowUps:129
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I really do not want to offend. I have read many posts where forumites explain their reasons for sitting on as low as 75km/hr on main roads. But I would like to share with the slower speeders my experiences.
We travelled from East coast of Qld to Broome and visited Kakadu and did the Gibb. And back. We mostly had an uneventful journey, actually the trip of a lifetime.
But the to the caravanners sitting on 80km/hr, please be aware of other motorists and trucks wanting to (as is their right) sit on the speed limit. On many occasions it is actually creating a dangerous situation, specially where the road hilly and without overtaking opportunities.
I have seen two road trains sitting behind a caravan. These guys have deadlines and it is really dangerous for them to overtake you. They take some time to speed up, and in the meantime create a queue of other travellers behind them.
On two occasions on our trip I was faced with oncoming trucks having to overtake slow caravans, and each occasion was dangerous (for them, me and the caravanners)
ALL but one of the near misses and dangerous situations on our trip involved in a material way the slow speed of travellers on highways.
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Reply By: dazren - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 21:57

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 21:57
Gidday CSeajay,
'' IF '' anyone is offended by your post ?? tough ti--ies as that is only stating fact !!
everyone has the right to drive at a speed they consider 'safe' HOWEVER they do not have a right to Impede the flow of traffic, If they wish to cruise along at 75 - 80 Kph that is fine, but they should be constantly checking what traffic is behind them. and allow those vehicles to overtake at Every opportunity, and pull over to allow them to pass if terrain is hilly or windy I am with your train of thought, the slow moving traffic is a lot more dangerous ?? Because it is them that creates the situation that has the potential to become dangerous
AnswerID: 497100

Follow Up By: Garth M1 - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 22:17

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 22:17
Funny you mention that Dazren. We were just discussing the same thing over dinner tonight. I agree with what you say.
Skip
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:22

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:22
We travel at 90 - 95 which is generally good for other vehicles to overtake without breaking the speed limit especially here in WA where the cops are not interested in safety, only revenue.
If I see any truck coming up behind I'm immediately looking for opportunities to pull over to assist them in passing. Quick chat on Ch 40 and off they go.
Yes it is ignorance and very poor driving to sit back enjoying the view while others grind their teeth in frustration behind you, and possibly make wrong decisions on how safe it is to get past.
Last long weekend 3 men were killed east of Southern Cross while attempting to go round a road train.
AlanH.
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Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 22:44

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 22:44
"These guys have deadlines and it is really dangerous for them to overtake you. They take some time to speed up, and in the meantime create a queue of other travellers behind them.
On two occasions on our trip I was faced with oncoming trucks HAVING TO OVERTAKE slow caravans, AND EACH OCCASION WAS DANGEROUS (for them, me and the caravanners)"

It is dangerous and foolish for ANYONE to overtake WHEN NOT PERFECTLY SAFE. Every driver has a responsibility to drive safely and according to the conditions, deadlines or not. Traffic travels at all different speeds for many reasons. Heavy haulage drivers must drive to the conditions and what they can see. Suddenly finding an obstacle in front of them, be it a caravanner travelling at 80 kph, a wide load travelling at 30 kph or a cow steeping onto the road. Having to pass because of the speed they were travelling indicates dangerous driving.

As part of courteous driving, anyone who has traffic building up behind them, and that includes heavy transport (who have a different speed limit to other traffic in WA), should allow traffic to pass when safe. However the caravanner who pulls off to allow the heavy haulage to pass must be sure not to impede the truck's travel speed.

We have an open road speed limit of 110 kph on most roads in WA, whereas those towing trailers and heavy haulage are limited to 100 kph. It is far easier for traffic to pass a caravanner travelling at 80 kph that at say somewhere between 90 and 100 kph.

Safety first please road users.

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: Top End Az - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:18

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:18
I respect people travelling at their own speed. Please bear in mind in the NT if you choose to do 75 kph then you are 55kph under what many other road users are doing at the 130 limit. Thats like walking pace in a 60 zone. But happy travels.
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:28

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:28
I believe 130kph is too fast for any vehicle legal or not and will not travel at that speed even if not towing 110kph is fast enough

each to there own but do it safely
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:46

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:46
Motherhen
Your reply is far too logical for those first few posters.
I can't recall being forced to overtake either, and as for anything but a road train, which I would pull over and let past, nearly ALL trucks,cars and buses can easily overtake a towed caravan travelling at 80kph.

Many Commodore drivers obviously get forced into overtaking by their attitude and that attitude must transfer to some others who have little patience.

I have driven interstate coaches and have easily rounded up an 80kmh vehicle "when forced to do so" but I look first so the danger is a well calculated risk and not a hairy ride as some appear to experience.

Vehicles don't cause accidents, people cause accidents.
If they have little patience or can't judge road situations pehaps they too should travel at 80kmh and force everyone to overtake them.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:15

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:15
Thanks again, wise Motherhen, for applying a little logic to this oft
raised subject. Folk seem to believe they have a right to travel at the posted limit, in fact what they have is a responsibility to not cause
injury to others by overtaking when unsafe. ....oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:13

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:13
Motherhen

You are right in that it is very easy to overtake a caravan. But when there is a truck or two behind the caravan, they can't overtake, it creates a bottleneck with many vehicles behind, unable to overtake.
Unfortunately threre are some who don't seem to check their rear view mirror and do not allow traffic to pass.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:39

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:39
Hi CSJ

What ever the cause, delays are part of long distance driving. As we all know, courteous driving involves considering those behind as well as approaching and most drivers do, but you will always meet a few who don't. However road trauma statistics occur far more in the passing in danger area than in going slow because there is an obstacle.

Maybe some caravanners are not thoughtful and courteous drivers - and they will be the same when driving a car or truck. Most trucks pull off when there are a dozen cars behind in places where they have to go very slowly, such as down a hill on a highway near me where a pull over section has been designed for that purpose. Some don't. Likewise some car drivers pull into the right hand overtaking lane, fail to pass and sit there, blocking the chance for all traffic behind to pass - how thoughtless.

Leaving adequate room between vehicles so there is room for someone to pass one vehicle at a time is also correct driving. Some caravanners in convoys stick together a little too close for comfort, when they could easily spread out and keep in touch by two-way and find the driving more relaxing than sticking nose-to-tail.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:09

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:09
Whoops! The Commodore slight was passed over!
That doesn't happen very often.

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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:20

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:20
But not for long Bill. As an ex Commodore driver I have always attributed that kind of behaviour to Toyota drivers most of whom seem to think that you get that "feeling" by going faster than anyone else.
There. That should do it!
Kevin
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Follow Up By: carnaby - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 00:29

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 00:29
Hi all,
one small correction In WA the speed limit for a
van or trailer over 750 kg is only 90 kmh
trucks are 100kmh
I travel between 80kmh-90kmh depending on the road or traffic
I have my uhf on 40 and have a call sign A&G ch40 on the van and talk to the truckies (they are out there working )so i don't like to hold them up and haven't come across a bad 1 yet
ive towed my van through every state in aus and haven't had a problem i think the trick is be courteous and try not to be a hazard
Alan
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Follow Up By: landseka - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:20

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:20
Sorry Alan, the WA speed Limit for ANY towing vehicle is 100 kmh.

See here near bottom of the page.

Like you I always monitor ch 40 and communicate with any trucks approaching from behind.

I don't get many trucks trying to pass me as I usually travel at 100kmh as that is the most economical towing speed for my Triton DiD.

Cheers Neil
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31
Recently watched a program on the box showing truckies and the tough job they do. A woman driver, part of a husband and wife 2 up team, was approaching a rail level crossing in heavy rain with a small vehicle in front of her.
Red lights start flashing and car decides he's going to stop. She was too close and decided to go round over the double whites and cross the crossing on the wrong side of the road.
Damn bad driving in my view, bad weather or not. As an experienced driver who used that road frequently she should have known the crossing was coming up and driven accordingly and dropped back until they were past and she could overtake safely.
What wouldhave happened if there'd been an oncoming vehicle stopping at the lights?
AlanH.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:34

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:34
Steved58

"I believe 130kph is too fast for any vehicle legal or not and will not travel at that speed even if not towing 110kph is fast enough

each to there own but do it safely"

You must be kidding saying that 130 is too fast for any vehicle. That's only 68 MPH. Both the 100 series and the Maxima are excellent at that speed. I suppose when the speed limit is 100 you will do 80. Got to slow those fast hoons up do you.

Good post MH bye the way.

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:45

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:45
You need to do your sums again - 130kph is just under 81mph not 68mph.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:22

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:22
Hi there AlanTH, I watched the same programe and I said the same thing to my wife, I even rewound it back and watched a couple of times and had she hit that car she would have been deep in the bleep . The red lights were flashing from way back not to mention the flashing orange lights on the side board on the side of the road well before the crossing to let drivers know the rail crossing lights were flashing red. She was in the wrong without fail and had I been a cop i would of booked her for numerous things, firstly tail gaiting, over taking over the double lines, failng to stop at a level crossing on a red light and general dangerous driving, all this caught on film. If she watches it back if shes got any brains she will realize her mistake. Shame her number plate was never shown as I'm sure there would have been some police officers sitting at home watching the possible horror that could have unfolded in front of them, they may have chased her up, GUILTY AS 100%
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:24

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:24
Forgot to mention I do have a semi licence so am not against truck drivers or anything else but in this instance I would have thrown the book at her, this gives the rest of the industry a bad name........
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 09:05

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 09:05
Garry

I forgot to carry the "1". But that does not help the conversation but thanks for picking me up.

Phil
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:31

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:31
Us "wobbly" drivers get a lot of blame for holding things up on the roads but a few truckers like that woman are intent only on keeping the loud pedal flat to the floor.
Not always possible as that film showed and she should have been backing off when she first noticed the little car in front of her and observing all the warning signs plus her knowledge of the road she travels constantly.
Nice to know that others think the same Kimba.
AlanH
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:43

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:43
Alan

I am a little perturbed why you would say "Nice to know that others think the same Kimba". Surely you do not think that those who agree with you would be in the minority. Even though I have not seen the video/show I would say that the greater number of drivers would think that she was a fool. But please I am talking from what I have read in this forum. Not just "others" but 90%+.

So my statement could be totally wrong. I usually like to see or hear both sides before saying that anyone was in the wrong.

Phil
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:34

Sunday, Oct 21, 2012 at 23:34
Gidday

I don't have a problem with the speed of some drivers, that is their right to drive at a speed they feel safe.

But I do have a problem when caravanners, boaties, anybody, travels in a tight little group of three or four, making it difficult to leapfrog your way through the group. That invariably ends up with unsafe passing manouvres.

Cheers



AnswerID: 497107

Follow Up By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:53

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:53
Whole heartedly agree Rocco I was going to mention the same thing.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:53

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:53
And I agree
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Reply By: bibtracker - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 02:03

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 02:03
Each to his/her own, but it's good to remember that speed limits are maximums NOT to be exceeded, rather than minimums to be maintained. The NT limit of 130 is just bloody stupid.
I drive to the conditions, and at a speed I consider appropriate, towing or not. If other drivers have to wait behind me for a little while, well, that's tough. We both to get to live a bit longer.
Cheers, Tony
AnswerID: 497111

Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 03:56

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 03:56
You and steven both obviously been to the territory they have some of the best roads in the country. As for slow van drivers etc holding up traffic I wish the police would start booking some of them their arrigant and are of in a world of their own most of them deliberately ignoring what's going on around them they are a hazard on our roads.If you can't afford to tow something closer to the speed limit which OH MY GOD will cost you a couple of dollars then stay in motels or other because it is cheaper than towing a van around which most don't factor in just add up everything it cost to buy and keep a van including accomadation,extra fuel then compare that to not towing and still paying for accommodation like you do for your van and you'll find it's cheaper not to tow one on that big trip. And yes I've done a lap around towing but I didn't ignorantly hold up traffic I stuck to the speed limit. I met so many people that were so concerened about using an extra litre of fuel.They buy their first 4wdrive and winge it uses more fuel than their previous car DEERRRR it's a box on wheels and then hook a van up to it and winge even more PLEASE GET OFF OUR ROADS YOUR A DANGEROUS HAZARD and catch a bus. Goodbye
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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 06:43

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 06:43
130 on the Stuart is just fine - and they've got the best road toll figures in the country.

You obviously think that you're the best driver in the country by holding other people up and thereby saving lives? Your self centred, arrogant reply has told me all I need to know about you and your driving style. Put your hat back on and don't dare look sideways as we overtake.......
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Follow Up By: Phillipn - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:20

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:20
In New Zealand their are signs on speed limits, which say " This is the limit no a target".
I know this is Australia and not NZ.

The roads do not belong to me or you, they are ours to share in a safe manner.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:30

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:30
Our speed limits are amoung the lowest in the world at 110. A limit of 130 is more common. Couple this with the fact we have less cars per kilometre. However, it is not common to have a 130 limit on a single lane highway anywhere. If you drive in different countries for any distance then it soon becomes obvious how inconsiderate and arrogant most Australian drivers are.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:48

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:48
What is the speed limit on the Stuart for road trains or a car towing???

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:29

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:29
So what is the speed limit on the Stuart for a

Learner driver ?

Red P plater ?

Green P plater ?

Or driving out of Sydney on a long weekend.

Never heard anyone ever say after rolling there car geez wish I was driving faster!.

Be patient people not worth losing your cool over...

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:05

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:05
Doesn't matter what colour plates you've got, what you're towing, what you're driving, or what you 'reckon' the speed limit should be - if you're driving in such a way that banks up traffic behind you and you do nothing about it, then the bottom line is YOU are the problem. Personally I think all nomads should be banned from the roads on long weekends and the first and last weekend of school holidays. In my experience there's generally one or two at the head of every seething angry snake of traffic just waiting to get back up to normal transit speed.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:32

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:32
GBC
I like your theory, "ye who shall never grow old".

That can only mean, "dead before nomad status".
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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:47

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:47
Not at all - I tow big boats, drive slow trucks, do all sorts of things at slower than the speed limit and I am not retired. When I can do the limit, I will, and when I can't do it, I let those that can do it come through. Got nothing to do with age, got to do with common respect. If we all respect the basic road rules, the roads we have would work. eg Nomads doing 80 in the second right hand lane of a freeway are disrespecting the road rules and every other driver. If I am doing 130 on a freeway and I am not overtaking, I am out of the right hand lane so if someone doing 150 comes through I am not impeding them. It is not my right to enforce what I reckon is an OK speed on anybody else.
And another example - I tow a 3.5t boat to Noosa twice a year on holidays. Do I have a cooked breakfast then turn myself into a mobile roadblock during the busiest time of the day? No, I get up early when the roads are quiet and drive up on my own, getting into Noosa before the morning rush.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:01

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:01
"It is not my right to enforce what I reckon is an OK speed on anybody else."
gbc, ya got it nailed there mate(;-))
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Follow Up By: Member - silvwayne - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:48

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:48
gbc

" Personally I think all nomads should be banned from the roads on long weekends and the first and last weekend of school holidays"

Not all nomads are bad drivers. I respect the rights of other road users. I am a nomad who still works. I used to tow a 2 ton trailer on all sorts of roads, as a shearing contractor, fom highways to station tracks, from bull dust to mud, travelling 40000 ks plus a year. I have giving up contacting but am travelling Oz working.

By your comments you seem to suffer from a bit of impatience. Learn to relax a bit.
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Reply By: Rockape - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:36

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:36
CseaJay,

What this all boils down to is respect for other road users. Some people are brilliant and will make sure they actually pull over and let people go, while others just blunder on oblivious to the havoc they are causing behind them.

You get the ones that do the old classic of speeding up when they are being overtaken. They really cause dangerous moments by leaving heavy transport out to dry.

Even many that are being overtaken and see a problem looming just keep going at the same pace instead of easing off the throttle. I think they would rather see an accident happen so they can say to someone we were in the right. Truthfully though I don't even recognise they are causing any problems.

I had one many years ago that every time I went to pass (and yes he had a hat on) would speed up and leave me hanging out to dry on the wrong side of the road. This went on for many kilometres and no matter what I did he just kept lifting his speed with each of my overtaking attempts. Well in the end I lost it and wound that old truck up to the max and just kept going on the wrong side of the road until a corner was looming. I then just pulled over to the left and forced him off the road.

I see a few are saying that 130kph is to fast. As stated the roads in the Territory that are POSTED 130 kph are good roads. Many do not choose to travel at 130 kph with the majority travelling at between 100 and 110 kph. Each to his own but that is the speed limit with great long straights and overtaking opportunities. Many of those who get funny about the higher speed is when a vehicle comes up on them and passes at that speed. They get a bit of a fright because they don't know where he came from. These people don't know what a mirror is for.

I have no problem with vans travelling at 80 Kph but I do have a problem with some of the self centered and ignorant ones.

Have a good one,
RA.

AnswerID: 497117

Follow Up By: R Send - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:26

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 08:26
What a laugh! Full of "respect for other road users" but then describes what can only be a road rage incident. I'm amazed anyone would publicise such appalling road behaviour by themselves.

Absolutely pathetic!
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:49

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:49
Thanks for that R send. I like the pathetic bit suits me well.

Yep! I did publish it because I can and most of the problems mentioned in the original post come from frustration.

He had no problem leaving me out there so I had no problem doing what I did.

I gotta get a hat to keep my head cool.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:53

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:53
Instaed of a hat, you may be better off getting some anger management therapy!

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:12

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:12
Shaker,
now that's the go I can just see me getting therapy from some gorgeous young thing. Trouble is that would heat me up not cool me down. Best stick to the hat.

Australia can relax as I just knocked back a driving job. To many Dudley do-gooders out there in our politically correct world.
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Reply By: Joe G2 - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:58

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 07:58
My business is transport based and I agree about problems with some caravan's and the odd motor home, we see it all the time, my guess would be 50% care and make an effort to get out of the way, the rest don't seem to really care.
One of the most ignorant drivers I have ever seen was the leader of a 4x4 tag a long tour in FNQ. About 8 4x4s pulled out onto the highway just behind me from the Hurricane turn off just before the Desallie range on the Cooktown road. I was in a truck and trailer weighing around 40 tonne. I was very slow up the range and thinking I would be holding them up I pulled over at the first opportunity and let them pass. They then sat on 80km/h at best, I then had to try to get around them which took some doing, one bloke called me on channel 40 and apologized for holding me up and helped me get around safely. Apparently the leader had let his tyre pressures down and was too lazy to pump them up for the bitumen. He also made the comment that he will never do a tag a long ever again because of the leader. I couldn't safely pass most until they turned off at the Maytown turnoff. The lead 4x4 made no attempt to let me pass. He was on a different channel and would not talk to me.

Joe
AnswerID: 497118

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:53

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:53
You really wonder what is up with some of these people, that they deliberately go out to be a nuisance largely to save $2 on a trip but largely because they are ignorant, selfish and don't give a rats about anything or anyone else. I might add, it's also a bit annoying when you take the trouble to pull over and don't even get a "thanks".
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Reply By: Top End Az - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31
My comments about NT were as is. Vans doing 80 are going 50 less than other road users. 130 obviously won't work in Vic, Qld or NSW with big populations on poor roads. For the record I find 120 is a good sweet spot. I would advise the anti 130 mob not to drive in Europe. Everyone is entitled to use the road. Just need to be considerate and safe and all take care of each other.
AnswerID: 497120

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:58

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:58
About the only thing NT roads and Euro motorways have in common is that people drive on them.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:03

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:03
Yeah I am pretty sure the camels that wander across the highways in Europe have two humps whereas ours mainly have one hump.
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Follow Up By: Honky - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:52

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:52
They certainly have Deer.

Honky
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Reply By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:54

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:54
If you cannot drive to the conditions, then do not drive. Depending on the amount of traffic, driving to the conditions means on main highways driving at or close to the speed limit. Most modern vehicles and caravans are capable at travelling at or close to the speed limit on open roads. If the driver does not feel capable at towing at those speeds then they should keep off the highways.
I don’t tow in NT at 130 k/m, but I let others pass me as soon as I can. But the roads there are so good that finding a place to overtake are not an issue.
Traffic on the highways is increasing and there are limited opportunities to overtake safely. How many times have you come across a long line of slow moving traffic to find the culprit is a caravan? It is only the few who make it bad for others and one response on this thread has exposed one of these people. Most caravaners are very experienced and good drivers.
On our last towing trip travelling north on the Bruce Highway we came across an extremely long line of traffic and yes, there was one caravan doing 80. The truckies on the CB were going berserk. Very few overtaking opportunities and when a overtaking lane did happen the caravan just kept going and did not slow down to let people pass, so only a few were able to get past this idiot. I could not understand why he did not slow down let everyone pass. Or when safe to do so just pull over.
I think the object of this thread is to try and get us travellers to be considerate of other travellers. Don’t attack the author, just think of others. We don’t own the road. (Mind you if we did we would fix it!)
Kevin
AnswerID: 497124

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:43

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:43
Using your own logic, you should keep off the highways in NT.

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FollowupID: 772867

Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:33

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:33
Shaker
I can see your point, but I love the place. But as I said, ‘Depending on the amount of traffic’ and in the NT I have not come across any traffic problems. And you do not have to concentrate on your speed as much because they don’t have speed cameras everywhere. You can just concentrate on driving. As you would have driven in the NT, you would know that the roads are completely different to Qld. I have driven in all states and I still believe Qld roads, outside the south east corner that is, are by far the worst in this country.
Have driven a motor home for 28 days all around the UK 3 years back, I think they are some of the best and most courteous drivers around.
Kevin
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FollowupID: 772884

Reply By: splits - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12
Geez 130 kph! The hand book in my Hilux 4b says don't exceed 138. The thing feels like it is approaching the land speed record at 100.

Another issue with van speed is stability. There is enough recent research available on the net to indicate that jack knifing is definitely speed related and the danger zone for long end heavy vans is up near 90 and above. The van can feel very stable at those speeds but apparently be upside down in seconds if subjected to a sudden change in direction by things like wind, evasive action by the driver etc. I don't own a big van but if I did I would be reluctant to go much more than 80. Come to think of it, I doubt if my Lux would get to 80 with its maximum weight tagging along behind.

This problem is most likely going to get a lot worse in the coming years as thousands of retired baby boomers take to the roads in huge vans.
AnswerID: 497126

Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:19

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:19
Your on the mark in your last sentence, Splits.

At a guess at least some of those posters advocating towing at the posted speed LIMIT are "young'uns" yet to understand that perceptions and relexes slow down a bit as you age. Would be interesting to see how they get on once they too join the grey nomad set.

Another poster suggested that modern vehicles and vans can safely travel at the speed limit - well maybe they can, but its the driver that's the critical link. If a driver doesn't feel safe at the speed limit its only common sense to slow down a bit. Slowing down though is no reason to ignore the needs of other road users - pull over as necessary to let others pass. Then a "thank you" by overtaking traffic is a return courtesy.

Cheers,

Val
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

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FollowupID: 772871

Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:16

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:16
The Boomers are out there now.
Like all human beings there are good ones, bad ones, stupid ones and ignorant ones.
Find the goodies and avoid the others.
I will stop and give the 'turtles' a head start if they are a nuisance.

bill
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FollowupID: 772915

Reply By: Member - Nolo (Brisbane) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:27

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:27
I am a long time traveler of the Bruce Highway in Queensland and agree that caravaneers are almost always the culprit for holding up long lines of traffic, whether it is because of an underpowered tow vehicle or by choice. Indeed I have now joined the towing fraternity and am very conscious of those following, slowing in an overtaking lane to let them through or even pulling over if necessary. I usually broadcast my intentions on UHF, to everyone’s satisfaction. The UHF is a fantastic tool for this but I have found these slower caravaneers are rarely on air, even if antennas suggest they indeed have a radio. I wish they were as my outbursts of frustration usually scare the wife and the dog would rather be someplace else. So turn on the radio, be alert and considerate to other road users, and do your bit to prevent more of these terrible head on fatal accidents which have occurred in Queensland of late. You do have a responsibility for the safety of both yourself and other road users.
AnswerID: 497128

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:45

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:45
I think far more people, including myself, would keep their radios on, if the bogans didn't fill the air with profanities!

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FollowupID: 772868

Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:27

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:27
You've got that right shaker. Night time and west of the range is much better. I call the quick ones through at night. Holding up traffic is just downright rude IMHO.
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FollowupID: 772872

Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:39

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:39
Couldn't agree more Greg,

Was coming down the Bruce Hwy yesterday arvo between Gladstone and MV, roadworks everywhere, constant speed limit changes, fair bit of traffic listening to the radio hearing a copy of truckies giving a convoy of four caravans a serve, (obviously the caravans weren't listening.)

The four caravans were travelling very close together at 55k in an 80k construction zone. Nowhere to pass just holding up traffic as a B Double would have to pass the four at once.

Well it all came to a head when at one of the few overtaking lanes the caravan in the back decided to leapfrog the other vans. Evidently it took the whole overtaking area to achieve this and no-one else got by.

Wish I had a recording of the truckies opinion on caravans
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FollowupID: 772885

Reply By: westskip - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:40

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:40
While I'm not an 80kph driver preferring to travel at 90/95 kph there are a number of things that other drivers do/don't do that annoy me

1. On an overtaking lane I will drop my speed to around 8o kph to allow other drivers to pass in the outside lane. It's amazing at how slow the other vehicles overtake me. No one seems to drop down a gear or increase their engine power to get past hence not many vehicles can pass me.

2.Frequently other vehicles seem very slow to take advantage of opportunities to pass us even when I've pulled over with two wheels in the gravel and have slowed down. On one occasion I slowed right down to 60 kph on a 110 kph zone before the vehicle following decided to pass.

Incidentally I will not indicate to anyone that it is safe to pass. It's entirely their call as I recall someone being sued after they had indicated it was safe to pass and an accident occured.

John
AnswerID: 497133

Follow Up By: Ross M - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:19

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:19
westskip
At 90/95 a truck has almost no chance of overtaking you because the speed difference is only 10kmh if they are limited to 105.
So to overtake you as they will want to do, they now can't and you will be holding them up.
If you sit down and work it out the distance travelled while overtaking if the speed difference is small is Far Far greater than the 80/105kmh distance will be.
The 80kmh traveller is making it safer for smart drivers who wish to overtake.
I also ride a motorcycle and can overtake easily, but if a vehicle is doing 80kmh then you practically don't know they were there. But in a 110 zone, overtaking a vehicle travelling at 105 takes a long long time if I don't go over 110kmh. The highest danger is while overtaking.
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FollowupID: 772883

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:51

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:51
I've just come in on this and am reading all of the comments. Truthfully if I saw a truck on the wrong side of the road heading towards me I would blame the driver of the truck, just as I would if it were a motor bike, a car or a car and a caravan.

We tow a van and until recently also towed a camper trailer. We drive at different speeds for both lots of towing. With the camper we could travel at a greater speed than the caravan. Of course without towing either we can travel faster. Note I say can. We travel at a speed where we feel safe and won't change that. However we do try to allow trucks, semis, road trains etc through as soon as it is safe. Often we call them on the radio and let them know that we won't impede their overtaking. We look at it that these people are earning their living through their driving. We're just on holiday.

Having just returned from the USA where we travelled on the roads of the East and West Coast it would seem to me that we need to pick up on courtesy. We found all drivers courteous even though the traffic was by Australian standards heavy. Of course their roads have several lanes that allows for easier overtaking, but try pulling out into another lane of traffic in the manner US drivers do and here in Australia we would be deafened by the horn blaring.

Courtesy is what it's all about and remembering that holding a licence is not a right and driving safely is the very best option; you can get to live longer.

Di
AnswerID: 497135

Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:47

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:47
Funny how the knowledge that 90% of vehicles have a firearm in them breeds courtesy eh?
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FollowupID: 772888

Follow Up By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:49

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:49
Our experience with our US friends and family is that most don't have firearms.

Di
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FollowupID: 772904

Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:59

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:59
I have family in Indiana - they aren't too bad out that way.
My Sister lives in Maryland. You do not beep your horn, much less even look into another person's car around that part of the country. I know my sister's family don't go 'armed in public', but I'm not too sure about the ones from hoosier land........ that's the thing - you don't know which car has the guns.
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FollowupID: 772909

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:45

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:45
Now not everything that comes out of the ol' US of A is suitable for the rest of us mere mortals but this idea of having a gun in your vehicle might just be a pretty good way to reduce road rage.
There could be a big reduction in rude finger signs and lewd suggestions of a sexual nature regarding one of your parents.
I would imagine having the wrong end of a .45 leveled at you might just be a calming influence.

Just a thought (;-))

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 772984

Reply By: Member -Hilton Hillbillies - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:06

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:06
Greetings All,

As with all topics that are many points of view.
If all drivers demonstrated a little consideration for one another there would be no problem.
When I was in the army we were not permitted to drive military vehicles faster than 80 kmh, it didn't matter if it was on the Hway or a back road.
But we were always told to be considerate of other drivers.
Like wise if you have a vehicle in front of you that for what ever reason is not going as fast as you wish to travel, be considerate and give him time to pull out of your way, it could be it is not safe for him to do so for a bit.
I think some times we all need to take a chill pill or a deep breath.
Anyway enough of my soapbox.
Have a great day and keep smiling.
Steve
Steve

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AnswerID: 497136

Reply By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:07

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:07
Interesting thread. As far as I can see so far we have about 40% of "get out of my way, don't you understand my rights are more important than yours". 40% "hmmmm..what, oh, traffic behind...well they can just wait" and about 20% "ok I have traffic behind me I might just pull over, slow down in the overtaking lane, do something to help that truck get past"
Scary huh


Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 497137

Follow Up By: Member - Magic (VIC) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:29

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:29
I think you've got it just about right Pop, and yes, it's scary.

A bit of courtesy to all.......... it should go without saying.

But unfortunately, someone has to say it.
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FollowupID: 772893

Follow Up By: madfisher - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:23

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:23
And what about the idiots who sit 20ks under the limit(not towing) then speed up to the limit as soon as and overtaking lane presents itself.
Cheers Pete
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FollowupID: 772947

Reply By: Kev - Member - Wynnum - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:11

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:11
Hi,
In my view it really doesn't matter at what speed a single vehicle travels on the highway, if they travel at 20k below the speed limit they can generally be overtaken safely and without the passing vehicle having to exceed the posted speed.
If they travel 5k below the speed limit passing is not necessary as you can travel behind very close to the speed limit.
The one that creates the most danger is the driver who sits close on the rear of the slow driver thereby creating a string of traffic to be overtaken.
The only option you have if you come up on a slower driver, and do not wish to or cannot overtake, is to stay a good distance behind giving those who want to travel at speed two slow vehicles to overtake safely instead of a slow line of traffic.
Then jump on the UHF and warn the slow driver that you wish room to overtake.
Kev
AnswerID: 497138

Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:17

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:17
Some drivers do need to learn that heavy haulage cannot stop in a metre if they pull in front of them, and that slowing down to allow them to pass can cause them to lose speed and the momentum to pass at that stage.

Rod Hannifey has worked towards mutual understanding. From his website:
Trucks and Caravans

Extract

In my experience the most difficult situation is with a truck catching up behind a van, and the van driver - believing he is doing the right thing, unnecessarily slows and moves to the left. By slowing before the truck has pulled out to overtake, the van forces the truck to slow, losing its momentum and road speed, which it then has to recover before overtaking.

Though moving left can sometimes reduce wind buffeting for the van, with a rough or broken road edge, it can make controlling the van more difficult and can throw up stones from this normally unused section of road. The truck will always have to cross the centre line, so move left only when conditions warrant it.

I would recommend maintaining your speed and position until the truck pulls out to overtake, and if you wish to assist, only then, lift your foot gently off the accelerator, flash the truckie with your headlight flasher when it’s safe to move back in and then regain your travelling speed.
Motherhen

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AnswerID: 497139

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:36

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:36
But MH, isn't what you have just written 90% common sense and 10% a dash of common courtesy?

Oh that's right both "commons" are rare commodities(;-))

Safe travels.

Pop
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FollowupID: 772901

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:54

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:54
Hi Pop

There will always be a few who do it wrong - and we will never change them; same as the those who leave their mess behind in free camps or where ever. Most live they lives considering others.

Mh

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FollowupID: 772906

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:12

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 14:12
Now don't get me started on the "mess leavers"...lol.
I agree most road users tend to be considerate and curtious unfortunately as the roads carry more and more traffic the impatient ones seem to be breeding at an accelerated (if you'll excuse the pun) rate.

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 772914

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:54

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:54
My old man hated caravans, campers, etc, that slowed and pulled over for what they thought was helping him.
Smashed lights, chips in windows etc when he got in a position close enough to overtake.
One time he saw the caravan roll over in front of him. Apparently this is very common.


I got hit in the face a few years back by a caravan moving over to let a few of us bike riders past, as if we needed it. Lucky I wore the full face that day and not the open.
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FollowupID: 772935

Reply By: garrycol - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:28

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:28
Sorry you feel that 80kph is too slow - however if you drive behind me you had better get used to it as my best cruising speed is about 80kph even without a caravan. Up hill may be as low as 25kph - as it was yesterday as I travelled 200km over very hilly terrain.

I don't think it is so much the speed but the attitude of the driver towing - even at 25kph in first going up steep hills I was getting toots of thanks - not frustration - a where ever it is safe (and will not spray stones) I move over so people following can see ahead and make their own decisions on whether to overtake.

The issue is not the slow speed but the attitudes of both the towing driver - I have the road and will hog it as much as I can and the following drivers view that they can drive at the speed limit and stuff all other drivers and if anyone is in their way they should get out of the road.

Sorry but some of us cannot get up to light speed but we are legal at our speed too.

Garry
AnswerID: 497141

Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:34

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:34
I must point out that is not only caravans that cause a build up of traffic.

As far as slower vehicles pulling off the road to allow faster traffic to pass, I seek suggestions on where and how to do this safely. Options are :-
1 Slow to a crawl while looking for a safe pull off place.
2 Travel at the 80km/hr and suddenly hard brake when a pull off place is seen, or
3 Travel at the 80km/hr and suddenly swerve off the road risking some form of crash, possibly involving following traffic.

Given the state of Aus roads it is near impossible to pull off safely, particularly in the windy, hilly areas as complained about in a few posts. Signage for possible pull offs is woefully inadequate.

If some people are in such a hurry that extra travel time is not possible then they should get off the road and catch a plane.
AnswerID: 497142

Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:53

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:53
Yes I would like to see the caravanners pull over where safe and possible to allow the traffic to get through.
AnswerID: 497143

Reply By: Best Off Road - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:07

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:07
As it happens I just bought another van. I tow it with a big V8 sedan that has 285 kw. The van is balanced and I use level riders. It travels at 100 km/h, up hill and own dale and in all but the twistiest terrain. I consider it rude to other road users to do anything else. But that's just me.

I also drive such a powerful car so that when I am not towing and get held up by slow drivers, I can overtake quickly and safely.
AnswerID: 497146

Follow Up By: Phillipn - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:12

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:12
Some drivers are an accident going some where to happen.
They only know two speeds, Stop and flat out.
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FollowupID: 772962

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:58

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:58
If you consider flat out to be 100 km/h I must ask where are you from? 100 km/h is, by world standards, a very low speed limit. Some of us have been brainwashed by govt propaganda that it is "fast". Some of us see through the lies which are there only to generate revenue.
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FollowupID: 773041

Reply By: Fred G NSW - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:24

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:24
Like some have alluded to here already, any posted speed limit is the maximum speed allowed in good/safe conditions. It is not a must do target that must be reached at any cost. If you choose to travel at the maximum allowable speed, it is up to you to do so safely. Those travelling at slower speeds, for a variety of reasons not always apparent to others, are not obligated to drive to your mindset. Fortunately common sense is available for all to apply, but many choose not to do so.

It is a fact that no matter what the posted speed limit is, if you are sitting on that speed limit anywhere in this country, you will always be holding up other drivers who have that "get out of my way" attitude.

On a lighter note, have a listen to this.








[vimeo]John Williamson[/vimeo]
AnswerID: 497147

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:50

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 13:50
Fred I recently drove Gold Coast to Melbourne down the Newell. I was travelling right on the limit every inch of the trip when I wasn't being held up. I got overtaken once in 1670 km.

By contrast I overtook perhaps 200 vehicles. My experience is that almost no-one exceeds the limit and around 90% are under the limit, and many well under it. I put this forward as an observation, not an opinion.

Cheers,

Jim.
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FollowupID: 772905

Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 17:35

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 17:35
G'day Jim. Good to see you back. You've been conspicuous by your absence on the forum. Only the other day we had a thread going about the old hands on here with a "where are they now" theme.

Now !

"I was travelling right on the limit every inch of the trip when I wasn't being held up. I got overtaken once in 1670 km."

That makes for a good yarn in the pub with the mates LOL.

"By contrast I overtook perhaps 200 vehicles."

The yarn get's even better." ROTFLMAO.

" My experience is that almost no-one exceeds the limit and around 90% are under the limit, and many well under it. I put this forward as an observation, not an opinion."

I hope you mean caravanners, not mainstream motorists, or I may be inclined to think you also believe in santa and the easter bunny :-)

If you were sitting on the limit past our joint on the Newell north of Coona. there would have been a long Q of b-doubles behind ya mate :-))









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FollowupID: 772924

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:02

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:02
I sit on 120+ when tavelling on the bike. I overtake many obviously, but i'm getting overtaken by just as many, and a few of them are caravans, but many are trucks. These same vehicle will also pull away from me if I let them.
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FollowupID: 772936

Reply By: Member - John and Lynne - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 15:21

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 15:21
Courtesy and consideration are necessary, no matter what speed you are doing or capable of! We generally tow a fairly heavy van at around 90k and pull over whenever possible if there is a line of traffic behind us. One thing that we notice, however, is that there are now more pull over areas being built to allow safe stopping and overtaking. Yet most of these are too short for a van and tug to pull into! They are usually only designed for a single car. This seems to defeat the purpose. A few weeks ago I drove through hills for quite a while with traffic behind me and had no way of safely pulling over even though I passed several of these very short pull offs.
Another discourteous and dangerous practice that can cause serious accidents is the impatient/arrogant driver who is in the right passing lane preparing to pass a caravan that is in the left lane. When the merging sign appears this clot accelerates to pass and refuses to allow the caravan to merge. The van is left to hurtle towards a fence while this clot careers on his way! This seems to becoming more common as few of these road owners seem to have any idea of how long it might take a van or truck to stop!
We will all reach our destination much later if we are held up by a crash - especially if we have to detour via the hospital or morgue!
As for those who loudly boast that they always drive at the speed limit I just pray that they go and find a another road - I don't want to meet them regardless of where or what I am driving! Lynne
AnswerID: 497155

Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:20

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:20
John.
I know what you mean.

I have had that happen to me a couple of times by truck drivers.

I pulled in to the other lane to allow the truck driver pass, this was OK but then another truck speed up so that I could not get back in during the merge. I had to slam the brakes on to stop running off the road.

One truckie did appear flash his rear lights afterwards at I hope an apology for nearly running me off the road. This was on the pacific highway near Coffs Harbour where they do seem madder than other areas :)

I think all drivers are guilty of causing problems at times, I find Learner drivers a big cause of slowed traffic as well should we keep them off the road as well or tell them to speed up to maximum speed?

I have not done it but what I like the idea of is that van drivers with UHF have a call sign and channel on the back of the vans so that truckies or other drivers with UHF can notify them they want to or are about to pass or perhaps some other generally agreed to signal (flashing lights or something). Driving up the bum of the car in front of you is not one of them.

But I guess it all comes down to what many have said above, courtesy for other drivers on the road.

Rich



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FollowupID: 772927

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:08

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:08
I had that problem with a stream of cars overtaking me on the Clyde last school holidays. They would not let me in. I had to stop.

The funny thing is, they got stuck behind the boat that I was catching up to directly in front of me.
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FollowupID: 772937

Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 06:12

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 06:12
You were holding up a whole stream of cars during school holidays no less and then wonder why they don't want to let you back in? Amazing.
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FollowupID: 772959

Reply By: JimDi - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 15:52

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 15:52
I hope my input to this post doesnt sound frivolous...but, my wife and I are both grey nomads, baby boomers, and to top it off we have spent eight of the last ten years towing a caravan full time around this lovely country. Add to this the fact that we towed at around the 80klm on the open road which going by some of the posts is a no no.

I drove at this speed because it felt safe and the car and van behaved themselves. The 80 series weighed around 2200kg and the off road van came in unladen at around 2500kg. On rough roads like the Tanami etc I drove to the conditions which resulted in no accidents nor breakdowns nor major damage being done to car or van.

My fervent hope is that at all times I drove with consideration to other drivers and road users. I certainly tried to do so.

This year I purchased a GXL 79 series landcruiser ute. I added an expensive bolted on camper to the back of it.
I did this because I was tired of towing caravans and not being able to get to those remote places I want to go to without unhooking a van and then tenting it.

Now to my input to this thread.

On a recent long trip I found that when on the highway and being able to travel with my new rig at 100 or 110klm per hour I was constantly being overtaken at the aforementioned speeds. So it does not seem to matter what speed one travels at these days it is not fast enough.

But enough criticism of grey nomads and baby boomers please, just remember, we are the last of the generations who used to travel with the esky in the front seat and measured distances in stubbies.
Happy travels
Jim
AnswerID: 497157

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:19

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:19
There is nothing wrong with pulling a van at 80kph. I think the consensus is that pulling a van at 80kph with a string of traffic a mile long behind you is undesirable. When there is a build up behind you, then pull over and let them pass. They will all like you and think what a considerate driver you are. If you aren't in a hurry then pulling over is not a problem.
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FollowupID: 772933

Follow Up By: Rockape - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:54

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 19:54
Jim,
I like the bit about the eskys and the stubbies. I used to ask Ron Holzheimer how many bottles of rum it took for his last trip.

Times have changed.

RA
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FollowupID: 772934

Follow Up By: JimDi - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:35

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:35
Mikehzz,
We started on the road in 2001 following an early retirement. I installed a uhf in 2003. In all that time I constantly whilst travelling called up truckies advising them I was aware they were behind me and I would get them around me at the first opportunity, I still do this even now when not towing if need be.
The funny thing is that in all that time since 2001 not one (seriously) truck driver has contacted me whilst approaching from behind. My markings on the rear of the van indicating I was on Ch 40 were extra large 40cm.

The truckies appreciated my calling and then worked with me to get around. But I found it odd that they never called. As for getting the rest around I pulled aside when I could. But you still got the impatient ones. Even though you pulled in beside them at the next town.
Jim
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FollowupID: 772941

Follow Up By: JimDi - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:53

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:53
Hi Rockape,
Yes they were different times. I do not want to hijack this thread.
But in 1970 I was stationed in Townsville and was about to be discharged from the Army after a tour in what was then called the funny country.
I was asked what mode of transport did I require to get back to NSW. A mate who had his car with him piped up and said come with me and the Army will pay me extra. So I did. What can I say, we left Townsville barracks after breakfast with an esky sitting between us,slept on the side of the road and arrived back in Sydney much later than we should have.

But we asked forgiveness and were forgiven, mainly because our time was up and it was too hard to administer punishment.
And I just shared a couple of bottles of red with that same mate a fortnight ago.

Different times alright.
Jim
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FollowupID: 772944

Follow Up By: Joe G2 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:07

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:07
Hi Jim,
This statement below of yours has had me thinking as I drive heavy vehicles in my business.

"The funny thing is that in all that time since 2001 not one (seriously) truck driver has contacted me whilst approaching from behind. My markings on the rear of the van indicating I was on Ch 40 were extra large 40cm."

I actually can't think of anything I would want to say to someone in front and this applies to other trucks as well. I suppose you could say I'm behind you but that's kind of obvious. I believe it is up to the vehicle holding up traffic to let them know that you know that they are behind and intend to help get them around when safe if they have a UHF

Joe
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FollowupID: 772961

Follow Up By: JimDi - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:07

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:07
Thanks Joe,
Thats a fair enough statement. Thinking about it I dont think I ever contacted anyone in front of me either.

I must admit I was always conscious of holding up traffic whilst towing, particularly trucks. They were working and had schedules I was just touring. I always found truckies helpful and courteous when I contacted them.
They in turn made their overtaking me comfortable and safe.
Quite often they knew the road really well and advised of a safe overtaking area ahead. I found the most dangerous time when a truck was overtaking was just as they drew level with the rear of the van.

Just looking at the rest of this thread I dont think anyone has yet blamed the poor main roads system in this country. Its hard enough touring on it I cannot imagine how heavy transport copes with it.
Regards
Jim
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FollowupID: 772979

Follow Up By: Joe G2 - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:40

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:40
Hi again Jim,
You are right about the main roads, an overtaking lane every 10k minimum would be a good start, especially on the Bruce Highway.

Joe
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FollowupID: 773039

Reply By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 16:08

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 16:08
As I mentioned in my early thread I got stuck behind a very long line of traffic, including a number of trucks, behind a inconsiderate caravaner and channel 40 was being used a lot by the truckies, as you can imagine.
One truck driver then came on and gave all carvaners a huge blast saying they do not spend any money when travelling; they mess up the country and should be banned off the main roads. He wanted more overseas tourists to come here as they are the ones who spend and keep the place clean!
I nearly got on to say that I think they should improve the railway and go back to carrying goods and get the trucks off the highways. But I thought best not to stir.
kevin
AnswerID: 497158

Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:09

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:09
Holy crap Kevin, saying that here your sure to get a serve. Ill watch this one. I too tow but feel bad if im holding any one up. I also understand who wants to sit behind a caravan for ages. I dont like it and dont expect others to either. Oh well more road users more traffic.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 772925

Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:39

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:39
Actually this has been a great topic with a lot of good points of view and no personal attacks. It is so good to read different opinions. Kevin
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:26

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:26
I have never been able to understand why they took the trains off the rails & put them on the roads!
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FollowupID: 772950

Reply By: dindy - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 17:56

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 17:56
I have been watching this topic with some interest and I agree that whilst some drivers are indeed inconsiderate with the way they drive and I include ALL types and ages of drivers in that. I have a real problem with the underlying attitude that kicked this discussion off. Yes slow drivers are indeed frustrating. Implying that they are forcing you to do something that puts other road users at risk is arrant cr*p. However exercising some patience whilst we drive goes along way to keeping us all safe on our roads. It has been my experience that nearly all crashes, I refuse to call them accidents because the vast majority of them in fact are not, are caused by a degree of impatience. Unfortunately when you combine impatience, arrogance, speed and weight the result can be horrific. The number of times I have been travelling under all sorts of conditions sometimes at the speed limit, sometimes under to suite the conditions(broad interpretation at Law) I am overtaken in a borderline risky manner given the finger or a mouthful of abuse only to see the same vehicle at the next set of lights or to pull into the next servo or fast food outlet. Go figure?
AnswerID: 497166

Reply By: Rockape - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:39

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 18:39
One of the best quotes when trucks are being held up by inconsiderate caravan drivers and there is a lot of discussion is on the radio. Someone will chime in with.

"When I retire I am going to buy a caravan, travel at 80kph and not let any of you bastards pass"

RA.


AnswerID: 497168

Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:17

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 20:17
It does not matter whether you are driving a truck or towing a caravan, both tasks require more concentration and preparation than normal driving and both demand more respect and consideration from all other road users.

To this end it should be mandatory that all heavy vehicles and caravans should carry UHF radios for vehicle to vehicle communications and should be used.
Trucks do not have them as ornaments or as a fashion accessory, they are a necessary tool.

Re speed.
Anybody has the right to drive at the posted speed limit just as anybody has the right to travel at 80K an hour if they so wish, but in neither case at someone else’s expense.

Nobody has the right to interfere with anyone else, and, traveling at 80K with a line of traffic behind you is no different to tailgating someone at 100K per hour. Both can lead to very dangerous outcomes under certain circumstances.

We all need to be more aware and considerate of the other road users especially those working on the roads to earn a living and communication is the first step in this direction.

If there is traffic behind you, get over and let them pass at the earliest convenience.
If you can’t, and there is a truck or caravan behind you, get on the blower and tell them your plight and arrange a safe passing maneuver when it is convenient for both. The truckies or caravaners will be more at ease and better prepared. Most of the time the truckies know where there are good spots to overtake up ahead.

Courtesy costs nothing and can win a lot of friends, even though you may never see them again on the road.

Courtesy starts with communication, in my experience.

I was complimented by a road train driver on the Capricorn Highway a couple of years ago for keeping him informed and offering to pull over and let him pass.

I was sitting on 90kph towing our van and he was gaining slowly but once I spoke to him and offered to pull over he eased off slightly and said he was happy to sit behind me while I was doing 90k but eventually I decided to let him pass anyway. We were conversing frequently well before the passing occurred.
As he passed he wished me a good day and thanked me for being considerate.

He said “ You’ll do alright with your attitude mate, thanks again”

So it does pay dividends to all concerned.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 497171

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:34

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:34
I think that you have got it right Bruce but there is one other thing and that is "patience". In our travels we have been considerate to others and I will pull over to let people pass but it is not always possible to do that in short order. Some people think that about two nano seconds is too long and you can tell that they are keen to get past. It is not always possible to communicate with them and I have often thought that it would be nice to have one of those scrolling signs on the back of the van saying something like "I know you are there and will let you pass as soon as I can pull over".

There have also been a couple of occasions where I have caught up with slower traffic that really did not want me to pass - very ironic!

Kind regards
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Reply By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:52

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 21:52
I now drive a 75s 1HZ Troopoy so I've now learnt tolerance, as the Troopy needs about 2km to overtake a tortoise. For me 90-95 is comfortable, if I see a semi coming up behind I'll let the driver know that I'll pull over if he needs me to do so to let them pass safely without the need to gear down.

Also when I need to pass a slow moving vehicle I need a lot of time to wind up the speed especially on a hill. So normally I'll wait until I have nobody behind me before I'll overtake.

Just plain courteous to other road users.

One of my main gripes is the turkeys who get right up the clacker of trucks and or vans and then can't see around the vehicle. It's plane common sense to sit back far enough to see around also gives the overtaking vehicle space to get up to a safe overtaking speed.

One of the best trucky saying for vanners is "Bush Rangers" when I called up and asked why he said because they hold up everybody.
Dunc
Make sure you give back more than you take

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AnswerID: 497183

Reply By: Top End Az - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:05

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:05
Well CSeaJay - i think we can see where road rage comes from judging from some heated responses.

I'm now just trying to think of a topic to post that will get more than 81 responses.
AnswerID: 497184

Reply By: Crammo - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:15

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:15
I'm having trouble working out why there is this obsession with pandering to truck drivers. What is it that makes them so special?

They are just one of many different groups of road users, all with different needs, priorities and capabilities. All with an EQUAL right to share the road and at whatever speed they consider appropriate.

You would think truck drivers would know, with just a little bit of thought, that there will be caravans, machinery, lots of other slower vehicles and roadworks on the road, its not that hard to predict.

Its just part of their job. If they can't plan their schedule to account for these eventualities then perhaps they should find another job.

I've lost count of the number of times I have seen lives put in danger by impatient truck drivers breaking the law in terms of tailgating, speeding and unsafe overtaking, especially on the Bruce Highway.

Their arrogant behaviour on the road, and especially on the radio does not engender any sympathy for their cause.

AnswerID: 497185

Follow Up By: Rockape - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 23:09

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 23:09
Crammo,
no one is pandering to truck drivers. What goes on out there affects all.

What I would like to ask you is can I speed limit your vehicle to 100 Kph and then let you answer your own question. Put a block of wood under the pedal and then try to overtake a slower vehicle. You will then realise what it is like.

It is all consideration for other road users and how you treat them.

Yes truckies know there will be roadworks, machinery, other events and even officers of the crown that will slow progress but none of these are as frustrating as an inconsiderate driver. Yes there are bad truck drivers the same as everyone else that cause havoc. What I am saying is these people earn their living on the road and just need a bit of consideration.

Sit in the cab of a truck for a day and your eyes will become very, very wide very very quickly.

RA.


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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 23:12

Monday, Oct 22, 2012 at 23:12
I agree and if their trucks are correctly speed limited - which few are - they will be holding up the traffic on most major highways.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 14:50

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 14:50
"All with an EQUAL right to share the road and at whatever speed they consider appropriate."

I hope I've misinterpreted that Crammo because it seems to suggest a lack of consideration as well as a lack of understanding of road rules. Unless you have good reasons for slow driving failing to yield to others could lead to you being ticketed for dangerous slow driving. ARR (125) deals with unreasonable slow driving.

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FollowupID: 773079

Reply By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:42

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:42
It never seems to amaze me regarding "it's my right" to sit on a speed limit lower then posted and use the excuse "it's safer".

I find it very annoying that people driving below the speed limit don't have the sense to move over and let faster vehicles pass..... it's my right too to sit on the speed limit.

The roads are no dangerous.... it's the incompetent road user who is, maybe some of these slow road users should reassess their capabilities and catch a bus.

If you can not sit on the speed limit there is something wrong big time with your driving or vehicle/setup..... and I'm not talking about climbing hills or driving windy roads.

This problem is just not with caravaners but other road uses aswell.

The biggest problem with most caravaners is most only do these big country trip once a year.... the rest of the year they sit behind a desk and commute by bus to and from work..... simply they do not have the skill set to tow a caravan.... and are overloaded.

It's good to see so many caravaners and slow drivers sticking up for this so called right to be annoying...... 90 year old drivers who can't see do the same with their doctors when there licence gets taken away!

You see on this forum too often people saying I sit 10Kph below the speed limit because I get better fuel economy or I want to see the countryside..... what a lame excuse..... every time someone passes you the chance of an accident involving you and others increase 10 fold.

The sooner they bring in a licence to be able to tow a caravan the better.... don't think many would pass.
AnswerID: 497195

Follow Up By: Member - John and Lynne - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:28

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:28
And so the discussion goes full circle! I am sure licences for cravanners would be an excellent idea. However one of the things that would be taught is that driving much over 90ks will generally greatly increase your chances of setting up a sway that will overturn your van - and THEN you really will hold up a lot of people! However a licence probably wouldn't make any difference to the driving and attitudes of the inconsiderate and self obsessed few - just as licences to drive cars do not seem to improve the behaviour of the ignorant few motorists who think they own the road and their destination/itinerary is the only significant thing in the universe. Lynne
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Follow Up By: hamo - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 15:45

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 15:45
Being a Truck driver my self who has held a MC Licence for 20+ years & now owning a 24' 3.5t van that has a "safe" travelling speed of 80 kph.

Id like to see some of those "preaching" that we should get off the road when there is a build up of traffic behind us, Do just that!

Just where do you get off the road where its safe.

Stick the left hand wheels in to the dirt & throw stone at every one.
I dont think so.

Parking bays a few & far between.

Some off the response's on this subject would be understandable if it where school holidays

Hamo
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 14:31

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 14:31
Well said olcoolone. An expert driver such as yourself has every right to be annoyed.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 15:24

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 15:24
"The sooner they bring in a licence to be able to tow a caravan the better.... don't think many would pass."

Plenty of idiots get their licenses (car, truck, bike, etc), why do you think a caravan license will improve things ? All it will do is give States another revenue source.

ps I don't own or tow a caravan.
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FollowupID: 773084

Reply By: Lyn W3 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:56

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 07:56
Anyone watch the new program on TV at the weekend "Outback Truckers" I came in at the tail end but evidently there were some great clips of other "drivers"

Also spare a thought for the two truck drivers involved in the Childers and Emerald accidents in the past couple of weeks.
AnswerID: 497197

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:00

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:00
Yes, I watched it & was horrified at the attitude of so called professional drivers.
Like the one that bitched about a car on a major highway slowing & stopping at red flashing rail crossing lights & then proceeded to drive straight through them saying that she couldn't stop. They drive that road every day & would know exactly where the rail crossings are & should slow down accordingly.

Remember the Kerang rail crossing disaster involving a truck?

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FollowupID: 772972

Follow Up By: steved58 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 13:42

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 13:42
I saw that show on tv not good for the reputation of professional truck drivers However it is a tv show and needs some drama to get ratings I am sure 99% of truck drivers cringed when they saw that incident I am a caravaner in my early 50s and just came back from a big trip 22000kms had no problems with the speed or traffic found most truckers good with the exception of the Waregoe hyw The road was in terrible condition nobody seemed to slow down to allow for it Add to that more trucks than I have ever seen and I was extremely glad to be off it
Steve
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FollowupID: 772989

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:31

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:31
FollowupID: 773023 Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:22
Kimba10 posted:
Hi there AlanTH, I watched the same programe and I said the same thing to my wife, I even rewound it back and watched a couple of times and had she hit that car she would have been deep in the shit. The red lights were flashing from way back not to mention the flashing orange lights on the side board on the side of the road well before the crossing to let drivers know the rail crossing lights were flashing red. She was in the wrong without fail and had I been a cop i would of booked her for numerous things, firstly tail gaiting, over taking over the double lines, failng to stop at a level crossing on a red light and general dangerous driving, all this caught on film. If she watches it back if shes got any brains she will realize her mistake. Shame her number plate was never shown as I'm sure there would have been some police officers sitting at home watching the possible horror that could have unfolded in front of them, they may have chased her up, GUILTY AS 100%
FollowUp 14 of 15
FollowupID: 773024 Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:24
Kimba10 posted:
Forgot to mention I do have a semi licence so am not against truck drivers or anything else but in this instance I would have thrown the book at her, this gives the rest of the industry a bad name........
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FollowupID: 773025

Reply By: Honky - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 17:27

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 17:27
Most accidents are vehicles travelling under the posted speed limit. The highest percentage is rear end accidents. so all the people that are travelling under the speed limit are the most dangerous on the road.
Speeding inforcement is only a revenue raiser ( not taking into consideration very high speeds, uregistered vehicles, unlicences drivers and drunks, fatigue etc)
Please tell me of an accident that you know of that has been caused by someone exceeding the speed limit by around 10 to 20 ks that has caused an accident because I have not heard of one. Do not use inappropriate speed for the conditions.
If the police targeted people going to slow they would save more lives.

Just look at smoking when they have used the excuse that they must increase the cost to stop smoking. Now they are finding people are smoking less resulting in a huge drop in income so they must increase tax to make up for it.

Let the fireworks begin.

Honky
AnswerID: 497223

Follow Up By: R Send - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 08:19

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 08:19
You obviously don't watch TV much. Virtually daily I see images of crashed vehicles (mainly cars and utes) on the news. Police comments are usually to the effect that speed was a major contributor.
Bob
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FollowupID: 773044

Follow Up By: Honky - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 09:14

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 09:14
I should add that I am talking about open road not around towns with 50/60 ks.
When the cops talk about speed it is mostly very high speeds not 10 to 20 ks over.
Most of the ones on the news are police chases and drag racing, total different than sitting on a highway 10 ks over.
When they dropped the speed limit on the newell it increased the death and accident rate.
Looks like we have the death penalty in australia as long as the Government can make a quid.

Honky
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FollowupID: 773049

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 15:44

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 15:44
Have just looked into my bag of fireworks Honky, and I've pulled out a double bunger.

Got any statistics to back up your generalisations regarding accidents? I'm not arguing the case either way (I'd have to study some FACTS first) but in regard to the Newell even if your statement is correct regarding the death rate, your conclusion that lowering the speed limit was the only or even the primary cause is extremely simplistic. We'll never actually know because you'd have to look in detail at four or five years of stats before and after the limit was dropped to get a proper picture and the 100k limit was only in place for about 2 years. I'd be very surprised if lowering the speed limit was a significant factor in any of the fatal accidents at all. According to the RTA "fatigue and speed are the two main behavioural factors in crashes resulting in fatalities on the Newell Highway."

Can only think you're burleying with your smoking comment. There's plenty of studies which suggest that smoking costs our society far more than any income it produces. Here's one summary:

Health impact

In 2003, tobacco smoking was the second leading cause of disease burden in Australia, (obesity being the leading cause), with 15,511 smoking-related deaths. The Australian Bureau of Statistics estimates that 8% of the total disease and injury burden in Australia is attributed to tobacco smoking. 20% of all cancer deaths are due to smoking – more specifically, 80% of lung cancer deaths in 2003 were attributed to tobacco smoking.

The most recent smoking statistics have confirmed that daily smoking rates are declining. In 2007, 16.6% of Australians over 14 years smoked daily, which is almost 3% less than the 19.5% of smokers in 2001. The rate was slightly higher for men at 18%, and was 15.2% for women. The highest rates of smokers were found in the 18–24 age bracket for males, and the 25–34 age bracket in females. In the 12–17 age bracket, 9% of boys and 10% of girls admitted to smoking in a survey conducted in 2005; these figures peaked at age 17.

Indigenous Australians have the highest smoking rates, with 50% of adults smoking daily in 2005. Manual labourers and factory workers have a higher incidence of smokers (almost 40%) than office workers and professionals (approximately 13%).


Economic impact

In 2004–2005, the cost of smoking to Australia was $31.5 billion dollars. This figure is thought to be quite conservative, as it does not include hidden social costs such as reduced workplace productivity, litter, extended hospital stays (due to decreased post-operative outcomes), medical costs associated with birth complications, and mental and emotional suffering experienced by smokers and their family and friends.

Treatment of disease is one of the major costs attributed to tobacco use. Lifetime costs for smokers are greater than for non-smokers, even when taking into consideration that non-smokers live substantially longer than smokers. Treatment of disease includes medical costs, hospital, nursing home, pharmaceutical and ambulance. It is not just the individual and the government that bear these costs, but businesses, employers and society as a whole.

The costs borne by businesses include increased rates of absenteeism and loss of labour, which are substantially more in smokers than in non-smokers.

Governments provide mass education and health campaigns in order to deliver information about the dangers of smoking, which add substantially to the overall cost that Australia bears.
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FollowupID: 773085

Follow Up By: R Send - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:47

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:47
Hey Honky, I find it interesting that you need to qualify your original statements now you've been challenged. I think your logic is flawed but I don't think its any good trying to convince you that you've pulled a very long bow with your interpretation of things.

Like Bazooka, I'd like to see the data to support your rather wild propositions.

Bob
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FollowupID: 773099

Follow Up By: Honky - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:43

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:43
I do not support speeding of any kind in a built up area.
Australia is a big place and we need to get to places within reasonable and safe time.
Not everyone is on holidays or retired.
With your attitude I can guess you voted labour.
The death rate in NT increased when they reduced the speed limit and I understand they are considering bringing back an open speed limit.
there is research on the net that states that high speeds is not the demon that it is made out to be just look at why they increased the speed limit in the US.
I can remember when they brought in the 100 in NSW and it was not to save lives, it was brought in to reduce our dependency on imported oil due to the middle east crisis.
With smoking, if the government could use the excuse that it costs them more than they bring in tax they certianly woul but I doubt Baxooka's figures as you could use the same to support smoking ie direct tax plus the tax people pay that work in the industry, also the jobs in creates in health. Smoking rates are going down very fast and the Government in the mid year budget said they are down $400 million. Shouldn't the reduce smoking have had a very big impact on the hospitals and reduce waiting times?
Direct tax in 2007 brought in over $9 billion.
Its government propaganda modified to suit their own needs. You see it everyday with all the b":<t coming out of the mouths of politicians.
Go back to watching the ABC

Honky

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FollowupID: 773122

Follow Up By: Honky - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 22:21

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 22:21
I got my tax figures wrong.
Here are some sights in regards to speed and also the great tax myth that tobacco users do not pay their own way.


Speed Kills?
http://www.aussiemotorists.com/speeddebate/speeddebate.html
Texas increases speed limit on some highways to 85 mph – Google US speed limits for further information on other states.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/09/texas-raises-speed-limit-to-85-mph-on-busy-highway/1#.UIfLz4Yx12c

Tobacco facts
Table 17.9
Impact of tobacco abuse upon the federal government budget, 2004–05, ($m)
Outlays $m $m Receipts $m $m
Health Excise duty 5220.0
Hospitals 93.6 Customs duty 518.0
Medical 124.8 Total tobacco revenue 5738.0
Nursing homes (132.8) Less
Pharmaceuticals 64.6 Revenue forgone
Ambulances 4.3 Income tax 1025.0
Total health 154.4 Indirect taxes 1848.9
Fires (not elsewhere included) 0.4 Total revenue forgone 2873.9
Total outlays 154.8 Total net revenue 2864.1
Net revenue minus outlays 2709.3

In other words the total outlay for hospitals by the federal government is less than the tax brought in.

Honky

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FollowupID: 773132

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 23:04

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 23:04
You're a great comedian Honky. I especially like the line that smoking keeps health workers in jobs. Yep, otherwise they'd be lost for something to do eh?

Reduction in the numbers of people smoking won't have a large effect on health outlays for smoking-related diseases for decades to come. That wouldn't occur even if everyone stopped smoking immediately, for obvious reasons.

Your unattributed smoking $figures are meaningless unless they have been verified independently but since they make no attempt to quantify peripheral costs such as those mentioned in my cut and paste - lost production (by the patient, his/her family, and health professionals who could be otherwise occupied), the cost of research related to smoking induced diseases, the cost of education and anti-smoking campaigns to govt, etc - they are disingenuous. My guess is they're a product of the tobacco industry?

I note you're still having trouble understanding cause and effect with fatalities and the lowering and raising of speed limits (this time in the NT). It's a basic mistake, as I've already pointed out. Raising speed limits may or may not lead to increased fatalities (intuitively many people would say it will) but there is absolutely no evidence that the act of lowering them was responsible for climbing fatalities. I suggest you read theNT Transport literature - it says in part that the major causes of accidents and fatalities in the Territory are failure to wear seatbelts, alcohol, and speed.
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FollowupID: 773137

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:01

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:01
Honky,

So you support speeding in non-built up areas then? You obviously think that it's OK to break the law because you think the bureaucrats who set the speed limits have got it all wrong. And if thats your attitude, and I don't think you're alone in that view that it's OK to break the speed limit, then you shouldn't be on the road!

It's no good complaining that the speed limits are just a revenue raiser for the government - just imagine what would happen if you all stopped breaking the speed limit - you'd have to find something else to argue about.

And why do you keep throwing red herrings into the mix - this thread is about the speeds at which different groups of people travel on our roads - so why do you produce more data on smoking than your original comments.

And why are the sites you offer from the US? - where are the Australian stats to support your ideas?

And how on earth did you manage to get to your "With your attitude I can guess you voted labour" comment - is it another indication of your fixed and often misguided views (most of which border on bs) on what appears to be an ever increasing range of topics?

Bob
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FollowupID: 773160

Follow Up By: GimmeeIsolation - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 16:09

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 16:09
"With your attitude I can guess you voted labour"
There is no "u" in labor ( the political party ), or me, or anybody else, its all for themselves.
Other parties the same too, no "u" in Liberal or "u" in Greens
:-)
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FollowupID: 773197

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:32

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:32
Honky, with your logic I'm glad everyone doesn't drive at 10 kph....it would be carnage out there :-)
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FollowupID: 773239

Reply By: Candace S. - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 17:36

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 17:36
I think this might be the longest thread in EO history?!

As I was reading all this, I thought back to my 4-week trip around Oz in 2008. I can't remember any of these moving roadblocks some of you seem to regularly encounter. And I didn't create any such roadblocks myself, even though on the highway in NT I drove about 100 kmh, the speed I felt comfortable at. I simply never saw all this traffic that the rest of you seem to encounter!!

By the way, no matter where in the world I'm driving, I am always happy to move over and let a faster vehicle pass. Partly out of courtesy, partly in the interest of safety. So don't worry, you won't be stuck behind me (at least not for long) at any point during my future visit(s) to Oz. =)
AnswerID: 497224

Reply By: MKO - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:02

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2012 at 21:02
Its a bit sad that this is my first post but I am dumbfounded by the responses of some people on here who think it is reasonable to travel at 75 or 80km on a 110 km road.

IMO you are selfish pigs who give all caravaners a bad name causing queues of traffic for no reason other than you can think of no one but yourself.

Thankfully this is becoming an issue in WA with the Police Commissioner stating on radio that they are starting to look at slower drivers on the road. At present, on some roads in WA you can not go slower than 20km under the speed limit.

I travel a lot on the Indian Ocean Drive and the amount of times that you get stuck behind caravans doing 80km or less is staggering - and that's before they have to go up a hill. Some of you seem to be oblivious to all other roadusers, with with large lines of traffic stuck behind. It is even worse when you get several caravans and then chuck in a few boats as well.

It is not unreasonable to expect you to stay within 20kms of the speed limit and have a vehicle matched to the van capable of doing this.

AnswerID: 497232

Follow Up By: carnaby - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 00:42

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 00:42
Hi MKO,
sorry you feel like that
there are many reasons for travelling at lower speeds
and if your impatience lets you live long enough you might discover
for yourself some of them
let patience and courtesy rule the day
Alan
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FollowupID: 773036

Follow Up By: MKO - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:39

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:39
Carnaby I am a bit stumped that you consider me impatient. Admittedly I do prefer to travel at 110km/h but I consider that quite reasonable.

What I do find discourteous is people who drive more than 20km/h under the speed limit, blocking the traffic and potentially causing accidents. While there may be many reasons for this behavior I believe that the main reasons for people driving at these speeds is that their vehicle is not properly matched to what they are towing or they are sociopaths.

Big plus 1 to Joker - If I am towing anything I also slow down to make it easier for cars to go past.

Mark
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FollowupID: 773098

Follow Up By: carnaby - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:19

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:19
Hi MKO,
when driving the Commodore i like to travel at 110 to 115
but if im held up by a slower car or truck i am very cautious when overtaking and prefure to wait for overtaking lanes
but my tow rig is a 4.2 gu patrol van is 18'van less than half the tow limit
upping the speed from 90 to 100 uses considerable more fuel approx 20 percent and up some of the longer pulls im considerably slower
but at overtaking lanes I sometimes have to slow to 40 to let all cars past, if getting you past safely saves your life and mine then all is good
I think most vanners are like this we a not selfish pigs nor sociopaths
but i do admit there a some bad ones on the road and they are also a menace to me
Alan
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FollowupID: 773115

Reply By: Joker - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:53

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 07:53
This is how I tow and find I have no problems. I usually sit on 90kph. I watch my rear vision mirror. When someone appears behind me I will look for a pullover spot in advance. Otherwise I will, when safe to do so, assist the trailing vehicle to pass me by indicating with my right blinker and when the othe vehicle pulls out to pass, take my foot off the gas and slow down. Truckies in particular nearly always give me the left-right blinker "thanks mate". I'm not in any hurry towing at 90kph so pulling over or slowing down is not an issue. We all have different reasons for using our roads. Consider the other drivers.

Cheers, Jock
AnswerID: 497252

Follow Up By: Lex M - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:31

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:31
I don't know where this "right blinker" crap comes from.

Firstly, it is illegal as it is incorrect use of an indicator.

Secondly, a right blinker indicates that you intend to turn right. Hence overtaking is inappropriate

If anyone flashes a right blinker at me when I'm about to overtake, I abort.

If you are pulling left and/or slowing down a left blinker is appropriate.



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FollowupID: 773064

Follow Up By: Off-track - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:16

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:16
Surely, Lex, you are taking the mickey???
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FollowupID: 773095

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:58

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:58
Why - he is totally correct.
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FollowupID: 773100

Follow Up By: Off-track - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:25

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:25
I hope you dont flash your headlights then or respond to someone doing it to you.
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FollowupID: 773117

Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:43

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:43
Sad that blokes have made it to your age and have never been thanked by another motorist, or called through by a semi.
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FollowupID: 773123

Follow Up By: Lex M - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 23:46

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 23:46
Flashing headlights - yes I do when appropriate as per the road rules:-
"A driver may flash the headlights briefly before overtaking another vehicle."

"never been thanked by another motorist" - most truckies thank me when I call them past. Caravaners...... not so common.

"never called through by a semi" - never been refused yet when I talk to them, often called through on the wrong side when it's upwind in the dust.

What bothers me is the general ignorance of road rules by most motorists.

If caravans followed the road rules this discussion would be mostly irrelevant -

"Long vehicles (measuring 7.5 metres or longer) must keep a minimum distance of 60 metres behind another long vehicle unless:

•driving on a multi-lane road
•driving in a built-up area
•overtaking
•driving in a road train area (where the minimum distance is 200 metres)."

And in regard to indicators as mentioned above -
"When use of direction indicator lights permitted.

The driver of a vehicle must not operate a direction indicator
light except—
(a) to give a change of direction signal when the driver is
required to give the signal under this regulation; or
(b) as part of the vehicle’s hazard warning lights."

And overtaking-
"No overtaking to the right of a vehicle turning right etc.
(1) A driver must not overtake to the right of a vehicle if the
vehicle is—
(a) turning right or making a U-turn from the centre of the
road; and
(b) giving a right change of direction signal."

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FollowupID: 773139

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 01:02

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 01:02
Yes, very good, you know how to quote a rule book. Keep following only rules in life and you will be completely safe Lex. Rules v's Principles.

Seriously, some car drivers just dont get it and maybe it's better that way. If your unable to understand its intent then simply disregard the gesture. It has become less and less utilised for car drivers for this reason but still very common between truck drivers.
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FollowupID: 773142

Reply By: Kimba10 - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:10

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:10
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AnswerID: 497265

Follow Up By: Mark S (cns) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:39

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:39
:)
Another description recently heard was:
Caravan Utililising Nomadic TravellerS.....:)



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FollowupID: 773166

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:03

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:03
Surely the school holidays haven't started again??
0
FollowupID: 773169

Follow Up By: Mark S (cns) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:26

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:26
Sounds to me like a bit of an old grumpy Caravan Utililising Nomadic Traveller.....
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FollowupID: 773219

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:14

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:14
lol found it on facebook at the same time I was reading through this post.........
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FollowupID: 773233

Reply By: Burnin up some diesel - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:45

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:45
We are currently travelling around Australia and sit between 80 and 100 depending on the conditions and how fast i might feel like driving today. My speedis always based on conditions and never ever on a deadline either mine or any other idiot wishing to punch the maximum, and in most cases excess of the maximum speed limit out of their vehicle.

I might remind you again that 110 or 100 as the case may be is the maximum not the minimum, we are as bewildered as you are by cars well exceeding the speed limit to do crazy things, eg overtake on the crest of a hill. If life is so short that 5 minutes behind a slower vehicle whether it be a caravan or a semi trailer or whatever it might be is the end of the world then maybe you need to reevaluate your priorities in life. Even in the city where the limit might be 60 I can be sitting on 60 and be overtaken by some half wit in a hurry to save a minute or two. When it comes to a celebration time and your are sitting with your family I challenge you to be able to articulate an argument based around exactly how many minutes you lost in the last twelve months sitting behind a caravan.

If I have a truck behind me I will work to get him around ASAP however I will not take risks to do so and I will not increase my speed to appease him. If its a car then that is why they have long stretches and overtaking lanes. Replaces you described your trip have plenty of these.

Enjoy your fast trip throughout Australia and I will enjoy my slow relaxed trip.
AnswerID: 497267

Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 13:54

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 13:54
One thing is evident, Government propaganda works. They have brainwashed people into believing anything over 110 is dangerous. What a load of old toffee. With the capabilities of the modern car the speed limit along well kept sections of highways (eg The Newell) should be at least 130. Meandering along at 110 in a current vehicle is mind numbingly boring and wastes a hell of a lot of time.

No, I'm not talking about towing a van at 130.
AnswerID: 497268

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:28

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 22:28
Yeah I was only talking to my mate the other day about this. Years ago we drove old shit boxes with shitty drum brakes, steering was controlled by worm drive or steering boxs that had that much play in them, not rack and pinion like most these days, shitty retreads, no airbags or ABS,traction, stability control, brake assit etc etc etc and yet we were doing 100/110 on them back then when most were crappy, we have the M2 which would have to be one of the best roads built in Sydney and the Pacific which is slowly going to double lanes, dual carriageway and yet where still doing the same speeds limited to 110 we were doing in the older cars. my wifes yaris sedan will buz along 130k (and before you say um ah) I have given it a quick squirt here and there over the 6 years of owning it (dont drive at those speeds regularly) and can tell you it doesnt even feel like Im doing it does it with ease, so could imagine a big car like a new commodore/falcon/aurion etc would feel like your walking. Problem is people driving. Some should not have a license, my god there are some shockers out there and unfortunately we have to cater for idiots. Now I done my fair share of towing (also drove semi's) and where possible if safe to do so I will normally do 100k, same days if its a hot day I wont push the vehicle and drop back to 90k and if its pissing down then I may be doing 70k, in other words I drive to the conditions. It doesnt really bother me what speed people do i just hang back and wait and over take when I can if safe. What does piss me write off is people who go slow then see an over taking lane and after holing every one up decide to boot it in the left lane and do there 100k in a 100 zone when for the last 20k there been doing 80, there the ones that will get the look from me to let them know there dickheads and going to cause an accident by some one stressing out and willing to take risks to get passed them. There should be some sort of fine for these clowns...My whinge for the night have a good one.........
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FollowupID: 773237

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 16:03

Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 16:03
You can't legislate for Mercedes AMGs etc, you have to legislate for the lowest common denominator as they are the ones that that are most likely to kill at higher speeds.
Along with stupidity impatience would be one of the biggest killers on our roads.
I can't understand why so many people are in such a hurry ............. TO DIE!

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FollowupID: 773280

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 22:47

Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 22:47
What a nonsensical statement. AMG's are engineered to travel at 300 km/h. A $1500, 1992 Daihatsu Charade is quite safe at 130 km/h.

Why are people in a hurry? I'm 51 and have limited time ahead of me, it could be 20 or 40 years, who knows? I don't want to waste any of it it stuck behind some dithering fool travelling at camel speed.

By the way, I drive a Mercedes E500 with 5.5 AMG engine and it tows our old 17 foot Jayco van a treat. Just today we whipped down to Inverloch, safely got along at 100 in heavy rain. The Pizza Place down here is still serving the same brilliant pizzas it has for 20 years.
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FollowupID: 773306

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 23:11

Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 23:11
It should have been obvious to even those of limited intelligence that I used a "tongue in cheek" reference to Mercedes AMG.
I regard statements that higher speeds don't contribute to accidents as nonsensical.
Next thing you will saying is that by driving faster, you spend less time on the road, so get less tired, even more nonsensical.


0
FollowupID: 773308

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Oct 27, 2012 at 09:26

Saturday, Oct 27, 2012 at 09:26
Thanks for confirming my statement that propaganda works.
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FollowupID: 773317

Reply By: Off-track - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:06

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 19:06
I am one that believes that caravanners (as a collective) have no valid reason to travel at speeds way below the posted limit. There are countless roads and highways that have very limited overtaking opportunities that prevent a reasonable flow of traffic if held up by slow-pokes. If it's ok for cars, trucks, bikes, 4wd's to be able to stick close to the limit then what makes this group so special?

It cant be about operating the vehicle safely as they are designed to be able to travel at the max towing speed for each state, 100kph being the lowest (WA). If your rig is not safe doing this then something surely is wrong.

In my mind it shows disregard for other travellers in cases when holding up traffic when sitting on 75-80kph for example, just to save on fuel expense.

Sorry if I offend but that is my opinion on the subject and I believe most people feel the same when caught in this situation.
AnswerID: 497292

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:41

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:41
It's a shame that Collyn Rivers doesn't post on this site. He is an expert in the stability of towed vehicles and would have lots to say about your "as they are designed to be able to travel at the max towing speed for each state" comment.

He has researched van stability and has communicated many concerns over the design and loading of vans. He has said on many occassions that the way in which things (eg generators, bicyles, outboard engines, and even the usual food and water) are loaded on a van and its speed can seriously affect the stability of the van and hence the whole towing arragement. And the higher the speed the more rapidly the problems show themselves.

I would also hazard a guess that most caravanners don't sit at the 75 - 80 kph speeds just to save fuel.

Phil
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FollowupID: 773158

Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:59

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:59
Off Track replied : "I am one that believes that caravanners (as a collective) have no valid reason to travel at speeds way below the posted limit."


Another Quote same post : "It cant be about operating the vehicle safely as they are designed to be able to travel at the max towing speed for each state, 100kph being the lowest (WA). If your rig is not safe doing this then something surely is wrong."

Well the NT has no minimun tow speed and at the moment has a 130 kph limit, this may change soon to an open speed limit, my point is that next time I travel the NT you are saying I can tow a 26 foot caravan with my new 200 series at 130 kph or if it is an open limit at 160+ kph well within the limits of the car, how safe would you feel knowing I was comming at you at that speed with a 26 foot van behind ???

To all those that think that traveling at a speed they feel safe is a hastle to you then you need to grow up, The last time I drove the Bruce highway with my family towing a camper trailer at 95 kph I was tailgated by some twat in a prime mover for some time, the closer he got the slower I went even more so when he couldn't over take, it pi$$ed him off no end as per his comments over the 2 way, after one of his rants I allowed him to over take safely and useing the phone # on the back of his truck I rang his boss to let him know the standard of driver he was employing, his boss was less than impressed with what he was hearing, then I got on the 2 way and let him know about the chat I had with his boss..

My point is it is my right to travel at what ever safe speed I like, it is also my obligation to allow you to travel safely and un impeeded, so if you give me room to move I will give you room to move, simple realy.
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FollowupID: 773163

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 13:59

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 13:59
Probably should clarify; 100kph is plenty fast enough to tow anything and IMHO that should be the max in every state for towing. Again IMHO 90-100kph is a reasonable speed to tow anything on the straight open road, below that is showing disregard for other travellers.

For those that say 80kph and to hell with everyone else because I think this is safe, well why not 60kph, or 50??? When does it become unreasonable? Pretty subjective really when there is not much support from road rules.

The shortfall of the operator not able to balance the load should not result in them plodding along at well below the posted limit.

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FollowupID: 773182

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:17

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:17
Apparently it's a lot more complex than just simply balancing the load. It also involves making sure that relatively high loads are not placed at the rear end of the chassis, particularly in large vans. So tool boxes, generators, bikes which are added to the rear bar of the van, and full water containers in a rear shower and toilet area fall into this category.

At high speed this type of loading at what is the end of a lever, with a bit of uneven road thrown in can create serious instability in the van. And apparently the effect goes up exponentially with speed. So 80 might well be a safe speed for a particular rig.

Please bear in mind that I am no expert in this matter, but I have tried to paraphrase what I have read.

Phil
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FollowupID: 773217

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:23

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 20:23
Oh, and apparently you won't know when this instability is going to happen until it does!
Phil
0
FollowupID: 773218

Reply By: Rockape - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:51

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2012 at 21:51
CJ,
bet you didn't know what you were getting yourself into with this thread.

There has been some pretty emotive stuff written and I am afraid it hasn't gone anywhere.
I think one of my answers was something about me being pathetic.

So lets get rid of the emotion and have a good look at the issue and look at some of the realities now I would like to spell them out.

Yes! we are allowed to travel at 80 with answers like no you should do this or you should do that. Some of the reasons for travelling at that speed are the vehicle doesn't support a higher speed. Note! I travel between 80 and 85 because of my gearing. I can't use 5th gear or I will destroy the box. At these speeds it suits my fuel consumption, engine sweet spot and relaxation. Now you all are going to say is this bloke is a Dr Jekell and Mr Hyde by some of my previous responses. Well read on.

Now you say how can an ex truckie drive at 80 with a van on the back and then get up others for doing the same thing.

I have no problem with others travelling at 80,90,100,110,120 or 130 as long as they don't worry me and I don't worry them. Simple answer is I keep out of their road and they stay out of mine. If others come up behind I just get out of their road and let them go. They are happy and so am I.

Now others will say how can you do that you are travelling at 80 and are a handbrake.

Well it is easy. I pick the road I travel on. I watch what is coming up behind and if people open their eyes there are many places to pull over and let others go. I can do that because I am relaxed and not keeping a timetable. An example of this is when you see roadtrains/transport coming up behind and that can normally be done well before they are anywhere near you. You then can pick a spot to pull off if the road is narrow or has nowhere for these other HUMAN BEINGS who do have families and speak english to pass. I pull off and give them a call to let them know why I have pulled off so they don't worry about me pulling back onto the road in front of them. Most times I receive a huge thank you.

The pulling over is not only for trucks but also for light vehicles. Often you will get someone who does not feel confident in passing you. Then another until there is a line up and the ones behind have to pass about four roadtrains worth of cars. As soon as I have someone that is not confident I try to help them pass and if that means getting of the road I will.

Pity many don't follow this basic principle.

As for speed limiters being tampered with on trucks. Yes it happens but not as the media portrays. Get a copy of ownerdriver or big rigs to find the real out come of these high profile busts on limiters. Many of the limiters only let the truck get to 98 kph. (except down hill).

My thoughts are. I wasn't put on this earth to get in your road and you weren't put here to get in mine. If we stick to this all will be happy.

Tolerance, respect and awareness. Then we will all go home safe.

The exception from this is when someone leaves me on the wrong side of the road to kill someone else. Please read one of my earlier replies for an explanation of this.

RA.

AnswerID: 497313

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:26

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 08:26
No-one left you on the wrong side of the road - you lost patience and put yourself out there. You said that you wound the rig up to the max to get past him and then found your self lacking because he did what he had been doing previously. So you miscalculated what you and your rig could do in that situation, found yourself in the wrong place, so you put the guy off the road.

This latest post is just more excuses for your poor driving behaviour. You put yourself out there because you had no patience with the car in front of you. Admittedly he wasn't doing the right thing, but maybe you should have kept a lid on it and stayed behind him.

It's a pity you didn't follow your own "Tolerance, respect and awareness" mantra.

Bob
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FollowupID: 773155

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:06

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 09:06
Bob,
if that is the only thing you are picking on well such is life. I don't make excuses just state fact.

My driving record is very very good but there is one thing I am and that is human, yes I can snap after being goaded for a long time.

Hope you are perfect.
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FollowupID: 773162

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 19:58

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 19:58
Well Honky,

I'm far from perfect, but you can't criticise others for poor road behaviour when by your own admission you can't control yourself. Something to do with greenhouses springs to mind here!

As for "my driving record is very very good" - I assume this means you haven't been caught for anything and it's lucky for you that your one moment of madness didn't end up with someone being killed or injured. You're no better than the people you're critical of, and probably a lot worse. It might be better if you stopped posting for a while - you're just digging yourself a bigger hole!

And I'm still waiting for something of substance from you to support your propositions regarding the speed limits in Australia.

Bob
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FollowupID: 773214

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:09

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:09
Now I think you are starting to get angry and losing it. You see I am not Honky and haven't mentioned anything about speed limits.

Sit down and take a deep breath. You will recover.

Now I have gone from being pathetic to someone who has moments of madness. I hope you can say something nice shortly.

You seem to be at logger heads with a few posters and by the way I haven't seen you post anything, only replies.

Have a lovely day,
RA.




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FollowupID: 773226

Follow Up By: R Send - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:25

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:25
RA,

yes sorry about that - I get fed up (certainly not angry) with reading stupid comments from adults who should know better, both in terms of how they post, and also in terms of what they post about!

I'm not at loggerheads with anyone, but I feel obliged (as do others) to challenge some of the cr*p that gets posted on here.

Bob


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FollowupID: 773228

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:44

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 21:44
Bob,
now have a think about.

If you disagree with someone then what they have said is crap. Mmmmm.

Must be awful going through life with one eye. It must be those labor, labour or is it labourers type people that write these crap posts.

Maybe you should write a post of your own about something interesting.

Nuff said I am getting bored. I think I will go and pour myself a nice Bundy rum a little bit of coke and two ice cubes.
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FollowupID: 773231

Follow Up By: R Send - Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 13:10

Friday, Oct 26, 2012 at 13:10
Thanks - I'll have one too!
Bob
0
FollowupID: 773272

Reply By: Lex M - Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:35

Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:35
If there was a psychological test involved in getting a driving license, I suspect a lot of posters here would be walking. :-)
AnswerID: 497350

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