How would you feel????

Ahh..just how many times has Tony Bullimore experienced an incident in the Southern Ocean, and required rescue by the RAN.???? Only once that I know of..

Na neither do I, Its a shiit load easier going out and picking up live tourists than dead ones!
Just found it funny.

Signman,

Yea OK, you are right of course.
BUT, he is planning, maybe already started, another solo circumnavigation of the Oceans and he coming our way again.

Sand Man,
I gather you've never been snatched off a dune- or winched out of a boghole!!

Just a comment on the Bullimore rescue..the Navy reckons it was the most cost-effective, real time, real purpose exersise that they've been involved in.

Regards
Signman

Signman,

I'm not sure where you got this from:

"Just a comment on the Bullimore rescue..the Navy reckons it was the most cost-effective, real time, real purpose exersise that they've been involved in. "

That was not the opinion of Raydon Gates, the Adelaide's captian, who was asked by the media on their return to Perth about the training value and stated that it was training they did not need!

We used to train a lot for SAR and the Bullimore rescue was business as usual.

Pete

Not sure I get your drift Signman???

I have been fortunate not to have required outside assistance so far, but have assisted others out of difficulty, usually by snatching. No big deal.

I sometimes wonder about these rescue "costs": what would the ship/aircraft and crews have been doing otherwise and whatever it was would it have cost less money. Or did we just go out and buy that ship especially for his rescue.

In reality all these "costs" are just accounting bull$hit (good use of the $ sign there :) contrived to fit someone's political agenda.

Now! _Real_ costs are more like those of the people fighting the bush fires who have taken time off work etc - do you think we'll see government figures costing that and reminding us how lucky we are to have such people or, perhaps, the government using those numbers to compensate people?

Mike Harding

Mike wrote:

"I sometimes wonder about these rescue "costs": what would the ship/aircraft and crews have been doing otherwise "

The crews were home on Christmas leave with their families and the ship and aircraft were at their bases. But the military _will_ drop what ever else they are doing including the limited time they get with their families to go and rescue some clown like Bullimore (and they don't get paid extra for risking their own lives in doing it). It is what they do and one of the reasons why they wear the uniform. Sure it does not cost them money but there is a cost to their family life that comes out in the very high divorce rates among navy personnel.

I took my patrol boat to sea at 4 hours notice on Christmas eve in '95 to rescue a bunch of boat people. My 5 year old daughter build a Lego "dad" so that 'I' could be with her on Christmas day. That still hurts a little when I think about that.

Pete

So it would have been OK had it been in March?

Pajman Pete,
"I took my patrol boat to sea at 4 hours notice on Christmas eve in '95 to rescue a bunch of boat people. My 5 year old daughter build a Lego "dad" so that 'I' could be with her on Christmas day. That still hurts a little when I think about that."

It wont help you mate but I bet your daughter will be as proud as hell when she gets older.
Wether you should have gone or not.
Good on ya

Mike,

"So it would have been OK had it been in March?"

You asked "what would the ship/aircraft and crews have been doing otherwise", I told you.

Sure in March, they would have just diverted from some other task, would have probably been steaming anyway and the additional costs above normal operating would have been minimal. When they said the Bullimore rescue cost $6 Million some bean counter just sat down and worked out what the direct costs were. They probably they did not deduct the normal operating costs, but at that time of the year they were minimal anyway.

As with anyone who responds at short notice to rescue or save someone, it disrupts other activities. But as I said above, if you wear a uniform (military, police, fire, CFS, ambo etc) that is one of the things you accept as part of serving others. Including putting your life at risk because some clown gambling with fate threw 2 ones on the dice.

Hairy,

There was no question in anyones mind at the time - we were the duty boat, we should have gone and no one bitched about it. The only ones who were a little miffed were the customs guys who had to take their boat out at the same time. Our chef had pre-planned "just in case" so our Christmas lunch was the traditional roast turkey, plum pud and all the trimmings (no alcohol though). When we asked the customs guys what they were having for lunch they told us they had been given cling wrapped sandwiches (then 18 hours old!). Went alongside and slipped them something a little better. We found the boat and escorted them back to Darwin which wss a nice result.

Cheers

Pete

call me simple, but that cracked me up!

John R, may i join your simple club? Cracked me up too LOL

Doesn't take much to keep me amused either... I loved it!

LOL - wish I'd thought of it.

just read it again- just as funny!!!

Hire companies never explain how to use 4WD to tourists. Backpackers on Fraser are commonly told NOT to use 4WD AT ALL. Have even come across a hire landrover with no front drive shaft, bogged of course ;-(

hire companies also tell them not to deflate thier tyres also as we were told by a hire troopy driver that we pulled out.

Leroy

Leroy,
Can you imagine if they told them TO!

I second that

I don't. They have a duty of care, if u hire a Troopy then tell the Hirer what the go is, otherwise stick with Hyundai Excel auto's.

You could twist that around Bonz and say that if you do not know how to operate a 4WD then don't hire one.

That goes for all things you can hire - Chainsaw, Epirb, Sat phone, woman on hay st....

goat...?

That's a tad rough Equinox...
The woman for hire on Hay st will give you verbal instructions, ex officio of course...

Bonz,
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink.
Im sure if they looked in the glove box or under the sunvisor they would find some instructions.
People need to take a bit of responsibility for their own actions, Im sure weve all been bogged before but if your front wheels arent turning on a 4wd youd have to be a bit curious why and get out and have a look before you turned on your EPIRB.
If they went through a stop sign whos fault would that be?
Cheers
Hairy

You may not be able to make them drink, and with a mouthful no-one can offer verbal instructions, however the hirer has the onus to ensure that the hiree has a knowledge of operation of the apparatus hired. Thats the law

Goats are never hired for they give of themselves freely and without malice, hence no legal contract as no money has changed hands for services, unlike Hay St, which must be some farm outlet for goat feed AFAIK.

Or, as the wonderful American author, critic and satirist Dorothy Parker noted; "You can take whore to culture but you can't make her think"

Mike Harding :)

Oh! I hate it when that happens:
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think"

Sorry I HATE duty of care! One of those terms we've stolen from the yanks to all the frigin enjoyment out of life. The only duty of care is FOR YOUSELF! If you can't look after yourself then your a bloody idiot IMHO.

This country is only going to get more fkt up the more people blame someone else for their idoitic mistakes...

Besides, do you really want a 45 minutes instruction on how to lock the hubs everytime you hire a 4wd??? I certainly don't. If they have this "duty of care" then you saying "sorry mate, I already know how to lock the hubs" will not cut it, they'll bloody show you how to use the gear stick, how to turn the key, yada yada yada. What a bloody crock.

Sorry fellas...the saying goes as such...........

You can take a horse to the water, but a pencil must be lead.

LOL

Poor Germans..for a clever nation their inhabitants do some silly things

Willem,

I think it's the "cleverness" that lets people down. How many people are so "clever" that they automatically think they know it all????? And so don't bother to ask for instructions/directions/help? And then they are knee deep in the sh@t and look silly because of that?

I know I've been guilty of that, and at the ripe age of 48 am now starting to learn to ASK!

Bonz/Jeff.....
As far as Duty of Care goes for hiring 4by's, our introduction to 4wd'ing was via a hired Rangie.... the operator gave us limited beach tuition but also told us NOT to tow, NOT to be towed except by him (unless the car was about to be swamped by the sea). He also made us aware of what could potentially go wrong out there, and based on his 40 minute talk, we made our own minds up on whether we would go ahead and hire the Rangie. IMO this is exactly what duty of care should be..... the end user should be made responsible for their own actions!!! If the hire companies made evryone who hired a Troopy for Fraser Island do a full day course on 4wd'ing, few would bother. But..... they should make them AWARE of what they are getting themselves into...... and let the hirer make his/her own mind up!

Just my opinion

Cheers

Brian

Thats exactly what I ewas talking about re the Hirer exercising their duty of care. Tell people what they r getting themselves into and let them make their own choice, just like u did Brian.

Duty of Care isnt an American thing Jeff, its a legal thing steeped in common law which is fundamentally British and consequently ours. No sense hating it, it is here to stay and all it really does is set in law a common care for each other, thats all really. You do the right thing and its all good. What the yanks have done is take it to the n-th degree as they tend to do in a cokc-headed way and use it as a basis for huge lawsuits - dumbassess I reckon.

The end user should IMHO always be responsible for their own actions. ALWAYS.

Last thing we need here is the stupid American "I will sue you attitude" and id10t juries awarding huge payouts.

Bonz this is exactly what I'm talking about though. The first thing you guys did on here was go "Bloody hire company, shouldn't have let them go out like that." The next thing people will be saying is "Take the hire company for everything, it's there fault!".

It's already happening a lot in Australia. Look at the tragic Gracetown incident years ago in WA. If you are not aware of it, some school kids were on an excursion when tragically a cliff on the coast gave way and crushed them. So what happens, they take the shire to court!

So what happens then?

The shire, DEC/CALM close off great areas, litter signs up all over the coast and stop us from being able to access some of the most scenic and great fishing spots around the WA coast.

How is the shire supposed to be responsible for nature for Christ sake. What are they supposed to ensure that you are safe no matter where you are? According to the law it appears to be that way. So no one can do anything remotely enjoyable because "somebody" might hurt themselves.

I'm not taking anything away from the tragic circumstances of that incident, but for heavens sake, next thing we'll be trying to blame the government because we went to sleep behind the wheel.... Maybe they should have made the road a little more interesting so I didn't get so board, maybe they should line all the edges of the road with a big inflatable bumber like what the kiddies have when they go bowling. I mean where does it end?

Why can't people go, Gee whizz I just bleep t up good hey! Oh well, I'll deal with it. Why is it always someone else's fault?? It's a load of bollocks.

It's like burglars winning law suits because they cut themselves on glass after they smashed your loungroom window and broke into your home to steal you laptop! They are bloody winning these things, it's bull bleep , and it's attitudes like what some people have expressed on here that are fuelling the fire IMO.

I tend to agree with ya Jeff, maybe it's about time we started to take responsibility for our own actions. ( I feel a soap box coming on) What about the idiot who was drunk as who dived into the surf at Bronte and broke his neck or whatever, sued Waverly council for millions but much later on appeal his loot was retracted...Then you see the court reports that so & so got off because he/she was under the influence of a "narcotic" substance at the time of committing the offence....

What is driving this wave of "litigancy"? Well of course the legal proffession, they are the ultimate winners here, anyone who has recieved any compensation thru the courts will tell you that their "legal team" will take most, if not all of it...
Don't start me on the Family Court either, when my son seperated he got a $4000 bill from a lawyer for attending one meeting of 15 minutes duration.

No I think that at some stage we have to bring common sense into play here. "Haf you effer been to Australia before?" Nien, ziss iss our first time in ziss country " "Ok well as first timers I'll show you over the vehicle and make sure you know what to do in an emergency"

No I feel this current arrangement where everyone can sue anyone else for the most trivial of reasons is rediculous. Just look at the Adds on TV " Were you too stpid to tie your shoelaces & tripped over them causing you personal injury?" " Well come see us, your first visit is free and we can get you the compensation you so justly deserve"
What absolute excrement, unfortunatley society is obsessed by getting money out of someone else for our own stupidity or act of God...

Good call!!
You should ring a couple of the big mobs and suggset it.
Smartest thing Ive heard.
Cheers

I recently took a photo in Katherine George . All you can see is a sign with a canoe tied to it, a lady in the water with just her head sticking out about 3 feet from the canoe.
Guess what the sign said?????......Do not enter. Salt water crocodile traping in this area.
I guess she figured she wasnt a croc so the sign didnt apply to her!

Why can't people take responsibility for themsevles?? If hire companies have to take all the responsibility then we just won't have anything remotely fun left to do in this country.

If you don't know how to drive a 4wd LEARN BEFORE you hire it. For christ sake.

Yep, we won't be able to go on bumber cars anymore, we won't be able to hire dingo's for the backyard, we won't be able to hire a dingy while we are on holiday. It's high time people started blaming themselves when they fk up, not everybody and anybody else.

Jeff M (WA) Hi

They don't have to take all the responsibility.. they just have to make sure they (or you) understand to the best of there ability.. people can't take responsibility for themselves.. because this ONLY works while it suits them.. the first time something goes wrong which does not suit them they will be up in arm's.. (you only have to read some of the responses on this forum)..

thats the way I see it

Richard

Yeh Mate.
Had a simmilar thing happen one day at the Palmer River.. Swiss tourists had taken a flat out run at the river in full flow because thay shat themselves earlier in the day when we stopped to see if they were alright and we were still behind them.
They didnt get far.... But the hardest bit was trying to get them to put the window down! All I was trying to do was to tell them to select high 4!!!!
Lucky a mate with us could speek his languge.......So we all walked away from the car while he spoke to him and conviced him to get out and let us drive his car out.
Good fun hey
Cheers

Mate . Im not bleep about the boofheads at all I just thought it was funny and you all might get a laugh out of it.

so now that every time that tom ,dick and harry get bogged they set of there EPIRB.
what a waste of time and money if its not a serious situation.
the topic was how would you feel, well i would feel like a total dick head.

Unfortunately their ignorance may have made it serious - hopefully they do feel pretty sheepish too. I know Hairy will have seen as many German's in Boggy Hole as anyone - he's probably taken more than a handful there too.

From what I know, NT Police don't charge, and volunteers much less, to get people out of these sorts of sticky situation ... if you've ever stopped to ask advice of anyone up there you'll know that whoever they are - park ranger, local health nurse, indigenous owner, tour operator, station hand ... they are very generous with their time, and the first to help even when the issues aren't pressing.

I have heard it said that most hire car boggings in Central Australia occur because the hubs were not locked, but that hire car companies don't permanently lock them because of the extra wear and tear. Hopefully this won't translate into "most EPIRBS are set off because people don't engage the front hubs" ;-)

Cheers
Andrew.

"....we tried to teach them about the hubs but lack of english and 10 minutes later they walked the rest...
what are those hire companies doing out there!!! nothing obviously!! "

Jumping to conclusions arent we???
Maybe they tried to teach them like you did?
Just got "Ya Ya Ya" and 10mins later DROVE off.
And were did they get the EPIRB? Probably suplied by the hire company....pretty dam responsible of them I rekon!
Cheers

Hairy

There aint no such thing as common sense no more. Most people drink too much red cooldrink and hyperventilate when things go pear shaped....lol

Question 1. Where is your Junction Waterhole?

Question 2. Your mate who speaks Swiss...Is that the fella with the camouflaged FJ55?

Going to be in Alice by end of July. Will make arrangements for a G'day drink.

Cheers

Gday Willem,
Do you think some should write a paper or set of instructions on " The cultivation of common sense" or something? ( if they could smoke it they might be a bit keener to use it!)

1. Junction- North of town, turn off the old Darwin road, 2 waterholes up from Wiggleys.
2. Martin Scheidegger used to work for Saharas for years.
3. Would be great to catch up for a beer!
Cheers
Hairy

i used to have a good laugh sitting at the bar at curtain springs when the terrorists
came in and asked if mount connor was ayers rock. good entertainment.

how the hell did you know, i forgot i used to sell a few to towjo owners, lol.
we got a heavy and quick 23mm on tuesday.arvo. cheers

Theres not to many days you wont get a car come past either. They werent to know that but I sure as shiit wouldnt set off en EPIRB until I waited a couple days and tried a few things first. If they waited till night and let their tyres down they probably could have driven out without 4wd.
Although the post was hanging a bit of harmless shiit on some unprepared tourists who would and should feel like complete gooses. Just hope they learnt from it and tell their friends...It could have been a lot worse!
Apparently the cops are going to have a word to the hire compamies to make sure (if they arent already) they are giving them a bit of advice before they leave.
Cheers