Is it too late ?

Submitted: Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:18
ThreadID: 41387 Views:4170 Replies:18 FollowUps:15
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I’ve been driving and camping around Australia, Tasmania, and Texas for many many years, in slightly modified 2wd’s (more clearance, better suspension, bit of engine work, LSD), travelling light with a small stove, small tent, small esky, small canoe.

A few years ago at the places and roads I’d enjoyed I noticed increasing numbers of ‘softroaders’ (ie Foresters et al, and true [low-range gearboxed] 4wd’s but only set up/used for weekends) and their occupants. And why not, with these vehicles’ confidence-inspiring ability in rougher, lower-traction situations than tar ? Obviously people were doing what I’d done years earlier, just in different vehicles, and encouraged by vehicle manufacturers, ‘lifestyle’ TV, word of mouth, websites and so on.

Nothing wrong with all that, but enjoyment of my travels was diminishing in reverse ratio to the increase in other vehicles, because huge parts of my enjoyment were the isolation and solitude of the driving and camping. Don’t get me wrong, my new companions were courteous and friendly enough, with pretty good low-impact camp manners; I just wanted to be more, not less, alone, and regain the enjoyment of ‘exploring’.

So 6 months ago I bought a 99 Hilux traytop and a camper (Adventure – excellent !) to put on it, planning to go to the places/roads beyond the capacity of my former vehicles (and my courage). I gathered lots of information about the various aspects of true 4wd travelling and applied the bits I thought were appropriate for my routes and budget. I occasionally read/heard negative stories about antisocial and irresponsible behaviour of some fellow 4wd folk, but put that down to ‘there’s always a few in every bunch’.

Now I think I may have made a poor decision by underestimating this negative behaviour, both in its impact and extent.

With five trips under my belt now, all of them to reasonably isolated locations requiring high-clearance and 4wd, I’m disappointed to report that my enjoyment of ALL the trips has been extensively diminished by:

- ‘Testosterone tracks’ near and around the campsites, seemingly ‘made’ to demonstrate vehicle/driver ability in mud and/or steep terrain. (Isn’t this what 4wd parks and competitions are for ?)

- A huge number of what some obviously consider to be ‘bush toilets’, consisting of human faeces only just obscured by toilet paper and a few leaves. (Don’t people have shovels ?)

- Loud, often aggressive behaviour – late night noise from music systems, vehicles being moved/driven/arriving very late.

- Rubbish. Lots and lots of it.

- Dogs everywhere. I really like dogs, but not when they seem about to leap into attack mode when I shoo them away from my food. (leashes, anyone ?)

- Sheer numbers, far too many for quiet enjoyment of the driving and the camping.

Perhaps I have left the move too late, perhaps the days of lovely, quiet, almost deserted roads, tracks, and camps are now gone. Are there really only ‘a few bad apples’, or are the numbers now such that ‘the few’ are enough to affect everybody everywhere ? Have my experiences so far been atypical and are there better places, travels, and less people to/in areas I haven’t tried yet ? Yes, I know I’ve only been a very short while at this, and so far only within 500km of Sydney - Limeburners Flat, Yalwal/Tolwong, Bendethra/Deua, Termeil Lake, Bridle Track.

This website quotes some 444,000-odd readers – if that’s an indication of how many are planning or doing trips like mine, then I fear that there are just too many people ‘out there’ (and as I said – why not ?) to allow the peace and isolation that I like so much ?

People (and you mob have huge collective experience at this), tell me – does it get better than this ? I sincerely hope so.

Cheers,

Nic "Still Hopeful" I
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Reply By: Member - Toytruck (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:32

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:32
Nic,
I would suggest that your aspirations of being alone are most certainly diminishing at a fairly progressive rate. There are litterally thousands heading for the great outdoors these days and even some of our more remote areas can be quite heavilly populated with teh growing camping population. These days you can even head into areas such as teh Canning Stock Route or the Gibb River area and have traffic poblems.

I do think that the "Bad Apples", are a minority. There are a lot of good people out there and I think the trick is finding these people and camping/4WDriving along with them. As I said this canceles out being alone but you are at the very least with people of similar interests.

Toytruck
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Reply By: Flash - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:32

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:32
Nic,
A very well worded post.
I wish I could offer some words of encouragement, but alas I cannot. There are a lot of "ferals" out there in so many places these days. There are still some good sites, but they soon become well known and then you know what happens.....
There are so many places that were great even five years ago which I would now not even consider.
Best of luck.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:35

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:35
Getting away from the masses can still be done. On a recent trip to the South West after christmas i still managed to get Bush camping with no one else within ear shot despite it being the busiest time of the year. I guess the main things to do is avoid the most popular Tourist areas and look for other options than the main campgrounds
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Follow Up By: mike w (WA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:10

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:10
Was that you at black point, white 80 series frying up some snaggers on the tail gate of your vehicle?? If not, my apologies and hello to the other exploroz member.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:18

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:18
Twas I!!
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Follow Up By: mike w (WA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:24

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:24
Ah ha!!

My apologies, I should have introduced myself, but there was 4 of us (vehicles) and we felt like we had disturbed you.

perhaps our paths shall cross once more...
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Reply By: pepper2 - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:36

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:36
Unfortuately this seems to be more common all the time ,we went the the lost city near lithgow and the camp ground although having a huge bin was littered everywhere with rubbish and the toilets had been vandalised and were foul,we cleaned as much as we could.These days we carry garbage bags and seem to have to pick up other peoples rubbish almost everywhere
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:36

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:36
NicI,

I would like to believe that you have just been plain unlucky in the places you have been.

Have you been to Desert country?
Places like the Oodnadatta, Birdsville, Strzelecki Tracks and the places they lead you to?
Or, the Flinders Ranges in South Australia's north.
Hard to find Yobbos out there. It is just too far for them to bother.

I do know what you mean though.
I have experienced a bunch of feral campers at a caravan park on York Peninsula once and there were that many of them that even the local Policeman was wary.

Now if you wish to experience the Flinders Rangers with the nicest bunch of people you would be likely to meet, set aside some time around the 7th July for the National ExplorOz gathering at Warraweena Station Conservation Park.

We wont bite. (very hard)
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 216394

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:29

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:29
Yobbos still get up that way too though Sandman. Have a look at this at Cadelga Outstation ruins last year at the start of July 2005 I did hear they were caught up with, but YOBBOS none the less.

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Follow Up By: 4wdNewbie - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:41

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:41
Thats appaling...
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Follow Up By: NicI - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:49

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:49
Thanks Sandman,

I have been to the Flinders Ranges, but all too briefly. It was a small side excursion on a trip from The Alice to Adelaide via the old highway (now called the Oodnadatta Track, I think) before there was a new one - a loooong time ago.

I love the area and its spectacular otherworldly mountainscapes; my partner and I may well take you up on your kind invitatation for July, including it in the itinerary of our larger trip.

Thanks for the encouragement, that's one of the great things I like about this site !

Cheers,

Nic
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:37

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:37
Dear Still Hopeful,

I come fro Sydney but I haven't been to those place - well before I became a born again 4wd'r. Thanks will give them a miss now!

Try getting a little further away. Suggest anything north of Cairns and west of Lake Argyle for starters. There are remote places out there trust me. Have a look,



No one as far as the eye can see!

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:15

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:15
Ah Beatit, are you sure there was no one else there I see footprints in front of the patrol or are they yours ??? LOL Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:26

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:26
G'day Steve,

They were mine, there had been quite a blow the night before which removed any trace of human existence. I took to picture to show how little impact we really have - it is all gone overnight! Mind you there were some dingo tracks around the camp in the morning. Didn't see a soul for hours and even then it was rather briefly.

Kind regards

Theo
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Reply By: Footloose - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:37

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:37
It most certainly does. But you'll have to travel just a tad further away from so called civilization. Day and weekend trips just aren't what they used to be. One now has to win Lotto and score enough time to get to some really remote areas. But be wary, as if you're thinking campgrounds or beautiful scenery gleaned out of a magazine or TV program, forget it. Others will have gone there, prices will have risen and the less desireable types will be there also.
If you're seriously anti social, then there are many many trips and tracks where you won't meet the great unwashed too often. Unfortunately they appear to require a major expedition away from Sydney.
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Reply By: Robin - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:55

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:55
Hi Nic

Its never to late, but you may need to adjust to circumstances.

With governments effectivily reducing the resource and more
people and cars pressure increases everywhere.

If its a problem in your area, try timeshifting.

I.E. Look to make opportunites to go thurs/fri
instead of weekend etc.

Even camping on friday night is lot quieter on
average that saturday.

Robin MIller
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Reply By: 98nav - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:03

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:03
I think you have sumed up the way a lot of people feel. I am lucky to be able to go camping during the week, sometimes i take the kids out of school 4 or 5 days at a time just so we can be left alone in the bush. But we went away on Melb Cup W/end and my kids were shocked at how many people were in our usual spot as our group of freinds all avoid the bush on public hol w/ends. I have spent 8 days in vic high country without seeing a person i was alone and loved every second.
So i think its got a lot to do with timing nowdays.
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Reply By: NicI - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:39

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:39
Thanks everybody, you've made some excellent suggestions which I appreciate. I'd like to clarify my ideas slightly if that's okay:

I don't want to necessarily be completely alone; I am at least enough of a realist to know that's impractical some, even most of the time. I simply wish to enjoy the peace and relative quiet which can accompany the kind of travel we all (on this site) seem to enjoy. I'd really enjoy camping with others of similar habits and preferences - clean, responsible, quiet, with a desire to attempt preservation of the sites, their attractions, and their access. I'm not much of a'goup' person or 'joiner', but I will definitely try travelling with a small group if I can find others of my ilk. I reckon people can camp in harmony with others and the surroundings, but it doesn't many to spoil the 'serenity' (apologies to the Castle !).

I do sincerely hope I have been unlucky, and/or been so far too close to a major city - thanks to all those who suggest venturing further afar, I have travelled widely, but only been on easier routes - I plan a 3-4 week trip somewhere far far away within a few months.

Excellent suggestion to avoid weekends; I should have mentioned that all my trips so far have been on weekdays/nights, surprising me even further when I found the noisy crowds.

Thanks to all, you seem like the kind of happy friendly crew I had hoped to encounter on many a trip through our wonderful land.

Cheers,

Nic
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Follow Up By: Member - Barry M (NSW) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:41

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:41
Nic, enjoyed your post immensely, & you brought out what I enjoy most on this forum, the great wealth of useful advice that is willingly shared. I urge you not to become discouraged . Timing can be important, Fraser in July (not School Hols)
was bliss, at Easter..bloody intolerable. The inherant problem with sharing a good
site is that it immediately becomes crowded. Take the excellent Camps 3 Guide book, recent users tell me that some of the best camps therein are now rubbish
dumps as everyone knows about them. I cant offer much more than has been
stated. Avoid long weekends,school holidays, anywhere within 2 hours of town
etc. The further out you go the better it may be, & earlier in the season seems
less busy. ...oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 11:33

Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 11:33
It really does make a difference if you go away mid-week, even close to Sydney. Most people would agree that the East Coast is the most populated, but you can still head to coastal camping grounds arriving Sunday when everyone is leaving then pack up Saturday when everyone is arriving. It's possible to find yourself alone or just a few other campers spread out in the camping ground.
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Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:40

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:40
Hi

I fear that it is no longer a very small minority of bad apples.

After Christmas we went into a NSW forestry area where we have gone on and off for years, often there are no other campers around, and sometimes there are a small number of very quiet well behaved families, serious bush walkers and nature freaks.

Over the 06/07 New Year a few very old and of questionable road worthiness 4wd utes arrived pulling trailers with unregistered trail bikes, mini bikes and a home made buggy.

We experienced endless noise from hi fi systems, drunks and motor bikes constantly coming and going a high speed. They knocked down a large dead eucalyptus with the bull bar and proceeded to have a huge bon fire despite current total fire ban notices everywhere. They left broken glass and rufuse and a burning fire.

There was frequent and seemingly senseless coming and going in the utes at great speed and bikes with guys and their dogs in the back of the utes.

This is the worst we have experienced. However, we have noticed a growing trend of 20 somethings who camp simply, drink until they are absolutely out of it, have no concept of camp cleanliness and health and hygiene matters and seem to bring more stereos than people and play numerous different songs at once at full blast. Probably to let their mummies, 50 kms away, know they are safe.

Now that I've got that off my chest I better go and finish my daily chores.

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:53

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:53
"20 somethings who simply, drink until they are absolutely out of it, have no concept of cleanliness and health and hygiene matters"

-Hmm doesnt sound like alot has changed since I was 20something
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 21:13

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 21:13
No, its not too late but it requires more planning and longer distances and more money(alas).

This year we travelled for 56days. On the western deserts section(21 days) we saw only 12 vehicles and for 8 days we were all alone on this great island. Remote, quiet places, are still to be found but you have to look for them and plan ahead. If I arrive at a likely campsite and there are other campers there I move on to the next place.

The bulk of our population lives on the eastern seaboard and this is where you may find no peace if you go camping. Another point is to try and do your camping on weekdays when you get the chance.

It is not too late but like all things, this recreational industry is booming, and more and more people are going out there. Some of them are uneducated and lack social skills and this puts a dampener on the passtime for everyone.

Cheers

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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 21:23

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 21:23
Yes Nic the bush is overcrowded & you probably missed the boat if you want a peacefull camp site, it certainly has deteriorated considerably from the 80's.
You can however minimise your chances of bumping into yobbo's by travelling mid week & off season. No point going to Cape York in July for example, dust, overcrowded camps & road rage to name a few issues but in May it's far more relaxing. I'm still hoping fuel jumps to $2 a litre for a while to get people buying Honda Civics instead of Landcruisers ;-)
Cheers Craig................
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Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 08:24

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 08:24
A good time to come up to the cape if you don't want to run into people is actually around september to december.
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 22:19

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 22:19
I feel sure it has more to do with the fact you live and choose to holiday so close to 4 million other people of which probably 1 million have the same idea and aspirations as yourself which means there is just not enough land within 2hrs of Sydney for you all to achieve solitude.

Enjoy your next roadtrip to some REALLY out of the way spot.
Regards, Trevor.
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Reply By: kingswoodwagon - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 00:15

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 00:15
I think the solution might be right before us.

Lets increase the number of 444,000 readers to 2,000,000 - complete with frequent post bonuses.

The more people sitting infront of their nerd boxes dreaming about camping for the easter weekend and christmas/new years break - and watching TV commercials to determine which soft roader can skyjump or mountainbike the best - means there not spoiling my campsite.

cheers

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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 08:51

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 08:51
Very valid issues you raise NicI. As commented by others, the type of travel and camping you seek is still available. I think we find it regularly.

We fortunately have the freedom to travel pretty much when we want to. As a result, we generally plan to be at home during school holidays and major holiday periods, but regularly hit the road for trips of between 2 and 16 weeks during the rest of the year. Avoiding the peak times is a major step.

Then sometimes you need to be prepared to travel further. You will still come across plenty of people in some of the remote areas, but generally they are people like you and me (and many others on this forum). Prepared to put in the time and effort to prepare properly and travel to these more remote (and beautiful) areas. Also generally people who respect the environment and other travellers. That's not to say you won't come across inconsiderate fools, but they are rare in our experience.

Like you, we are disgusted by the way people treat the bush as a huge public toilet, but again once you get off the main roads this is much less of a problem.

Hope you can find what you are after. It is out there and worth the effort.
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Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 09:33

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 09:33
Good points Nic although meeting and yarning with people is still one of the great attractions of travelling IMHO. Not the sort you describe though although I suspect that this kind of behaviour has always been there, just as the population increases, so to does your chance of camping next to idiots.

More and more you will need access to more remote areas to achieve the peace you are after (read, need a well set up 4WD).

Still some great peaceful spots around though, here is a camp that we spent 4 nights at without seeing or hearing another souls.......beautiful.

!MPG:10!
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Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 10:26

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 10:26
Nice pic, Matt. Gregory River? (Whisper: don't tell ayone where it is!)
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 11:11

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 11:11
Yep, nice guess. Actually the Wickam River in Gregory NP. We travelled this track for about 6 days and saw one other car (and that was the ranger). Touch and go sometimes towing the Kamper, but really glad we did it.

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 11:45

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 11:45
Not such a good guess, actually. I was thinking of the Gregory River in NW Qld (can't tell you extactly where - I'd have to kill you...) Very similar - clear running water, small rapids, weeping paperbarks and pandanus - just magic.
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Reply By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 10:55

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 10:55
Hi Nic,

Thank you for your thoughtful and considered contributions to this august forum. I nominate it for "Post of the Month" (how about it, David?).

Like most other respondents, I'd encourage you to stick to it, but plan more carefully to avoid the undesirable idiots who seem hell-bent on having bush camping and 4WDing progressively shutdown by the authorities.

We regards ourselves as 'contrary travellers' these days: we actively plan to visit areas in the quietest possible times (while still taking account of weather/seasonal limitations). This includes avoiding school holidays/long weekends like the plague and visiting regions outside the peak tourist times. Unfortunately this also means having to sometimes having to put with less than perfect weather - like Cape York/Kimberleys in the warmer Sep/Oct/Nov period rather than June/July - but we find it suits us better. Please stay hopeful.
Ian
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