Off road vs on road caravan

Submitted: Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 16:34
ThreadID: 67337 Views:5979 Replies:13 FollowUps:14
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Hi all

It looks as if we are about to join the Grey Nomad set at long last
THANK GOD (no blasphemy intended)

We have owned a 4WD for many years and still like going to more remote places. While we realize that we will not be able to tow a full size van to the more out of the way spots we can't decide whether to go with a more off road capable unit (with the attached much higher cost) or buy an on road model and just use the 4WD to head out from caravan parks. Any opinions from those of you that have gone down either road (no pun intended) would be appreciated. I guess what I'm after is do you think the extra cost of something better than a standard on bitumen van is worth it?

Thanks in advance
Cheers ob
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Reply By: Member - Richard H (NSW) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 16:43

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 16:43
We use an ordinary van as it's ighter to tow than the heavier (so called) off road versions.

Should we desire to see some place that is difficult to reach with the van, we use a small, quality tent, blow-up mattresses, sleeping bags, and again I stress, quality cooking gear. We cart this with us. This stuff doesn't weigh much and can be stored under the bed.

You'll probably need to cart water with you, but I assume that you do this in any case.

There are lots of places near the scenic attractions, that will allow you to store your van for a couple of days at a minimal price.

Dick
AnswerID: 357065

Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 00:12

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 00:12
Richard,

I have been thinking about this myself and agree that some places can be done like this, but how do you 'travel' accross Australia if you want to do some of the longer corrugated sections of road, like the GCR, Tanami etc.... It would be a long way to gbo back to pick up the van!

I figure doing it this way, will mean that you will miss a great deal. Any thoughts?

Cheers,.

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Richard H (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:32

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:32
Mark,

I took a single axle Roadstar van on the Tanami, the only modification it had was a Treg coupling & I fitted shockies to the axle. We did the trip in three days with no problems.

The road was what I would consider as being average, good in places and bad in others.

It has long been my contention that with a bit of care and drive according to the prevailing conditions, you can go just about anywhere.

I haven't ever been on the G.C.R. but I've driven on the Gary Junction Road. I saw a conventional van out past Kintore. We actually stopped and spoke to the people as we were interested by van owners, they said that they were taking it slowly and had no problems. And Mark, they had a Jayco Heritage twin axle job.

I don't know what type of van you have, but by spending a few bob on some modifications, we managed quite well, and though we have upgraded now, the Roadstar went to a lot of places on gravel.

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Anyway, get out there regardless I will be in a months time.

Dick

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:17

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:17
Richard,

Thanks for the reply....don't have a van at the moment, have a campertrailer, but considering doing a 6-12 month trip in a few years with accumulated leave and LSL, so thought (with 2 kids) a van may be the better option. So I have started looking around at what's available, seeking advice, opinions (and forming some of course). I am certainly no expert on vans and more than willing to listen to the more experienced for their advice.

A couple of interesting pics found on the net recently:

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I know which I'd rather have........ No one ever plans to have an accident like this, but they can happen.

I guess my point is that a 'proper' off road van is going to be built MUCH stronger that a semi off road or road van and is built to withstand the corrugations particularly. Any van can take any rough road slowly, but do you really want to do these roads over thousands of km at 15kph?

I just get the feeling that the off road vans are purpose built and are more likely to withstand constant use over these types of roads that something using wood and glue for it's construction.

I did note the number of vans sitting with significant damage at one of the stations on the GRR. All that I noted were not purpose built off road vans, but single axled 'road' looking vans.

My plan (at this stage...constantly changing till I get a better understanding of everything required for long off road trips with a van) is to buy one of the "better" off road vans, do the trip, then sell upon return, as I can't justify having the high cost of a van like this sitting around at home for the occasional trip. I sense that their value seems to hold pretty well and that most of the initial expense would be recouped after the trip...possible a cheaper way to do the long trip with the family?

I would love to get out there right now, but with a 3 week old and a 2 1/2 year old, I plan to wait a few years until the kids will appreciate a substantial trip and the travelling easier than with kids in nappies. I don't mind for shorter trips, but the purpose is to give them the experience too....

Enjoy your travelling.

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: Wizard1 - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 17:37

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 17:37
I look it the same way I look at the reason I drive a 4WD. I can take my 4WD off road and do all that stuff and still use it for normal touring and motoring. While a standard car can only do one of those.

I use the same theory with my van. I can go more places than I did when I had a standard road going van.

Its a personal choice.
AnswerID: 357070

Reply By: Tenpounder - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 17:56

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 17:56
Hi there. A good friend of mine, some time ago, said that there are not that many places you can take an off-road van that you would not tackle with an on road van. Our experience since then has supported this view.
Particularly, many if not most of the worthwhile/exciting places are off limits to any van, or else accessible to anyone. So the question becomes, is it worthwhile to have an expensive, off road van, plus an expensive 4WD to tow it for that fairly small range of destinations in between 2WD/on road, and 4WD/no trailers.
Particularly on a long, grey nomad trip (like we did last year) an off road van would have been relevant for, at best, a few hundred km in a 15,000 km trip. And it would have been very expensive for the other 14,000 km! Let's face it, most of us don't want to shake the tripe out of a $100,000 van behind a $100,000 4WD on the Oodnadatta (unless it is someone else's). And we can't afford it anyway!
So we, too, joined the ranks of the small tent brigade, and did the Gibb River and Bungles without the van. Our 16ft pop-top was fine for the rest of the trip
Chris (SA)
AnswerID: 357075

Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 00:23

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 00:23
See above.....

So No Oodnadatta, no Birdsville Track, No Great Central Road, No Tanami Track + + + + + + ????

I would put it to you that a GOOD, SOLID off-road van will withstand this type of use without any problem, as with the 4WD. I have seen pictures of a well known off road van that had rolled and the only damage was a busted light and a couple of very slight dints in the alum panelling on the side it slid along..... Try that with your on-road van, which are normally constructed of screwed and glued wood with stapled panelling!

I also think you are overstating the costs involved. Yes a brand new TOP OF THE LINE Toyota twin turbo diesel would cost $100k, but a low k's standard or GXL turbo version a great deal less than that, both of which will tow a medium sized off road van admirably.

If your style of travel suits you, I'm pleased, but there's just so much that I wouldn't want to miss out on, with a 'once in a lifetime' trip.

AT the moment, I travel with an off road Campertrailer and I take it nearly everywhere I take my car, with the exception of extremely steep tracks in the Vic High Country as I think it puts too much strain on the running gear of the 4WD. This method suits me until I want to travel for a longer period of time (6-12 months or so) and then the security and comfort of a van would be better...

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:25

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:25
Mark,

A camper trailer is not an off road van and yes, you can take that a lot of places you wouldn't dream of taking ANY sort of van. I think the answer sought is the benefits of off road van say Kedron/Bushtracker etc vs. a Jayco Sterling/Gold Linwood etc.

I have a road van...OK OK a Sterling and an RV3 for the serious stuff and when I do, I will leave the van and camp as a lot of people I know have done when crossing the Simpson. There is no way I would tow anything on that trip...how do you back down a dune with a camper trailer on the back..???
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FollowupID: 625279

Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:02

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:02
Don,

Given........ I personally wouldn't take my CT through the Simpson either...not becouse of the problem backing it, but for the reason that the authorities have 'asked' that people don't.

There have been MANY successful crossings of the Simpson with CT's. Taking it easy and using the side tracks where possible and not mucking around on Big Red and the like, I don't think there would be a problem. A van? No way.

I wasn't making a comparison of the CT with a van. I do know they are a very different proposition. Just waffling a bit at my future intentions......

My main point was that there would be a great deal of Australia that you would miss by not travelling the corrugations, and that is what kills the lighter-weight vans, from what I have seen, in addition to over-inflated tyres and too much speed over rough terrain.

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:01

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:01
OB,

There's nothing like arriving at a pleasant, isolated, picturesque place well off the beaten track, with all your home comforts in your off road caravan.

You don't have to tent it, with limited supplies and you don't have to leave that beautiful shower and toilet behind in town.

Your other half will be forever thankful.

And you don't have to go back to where your van is stored.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

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AnswerID: 357077

Reply By: Isuzumu - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:27

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:27
An interesting subject. We to want to up grade and have set my buy on a light off road (cause I cannot afford say a Bush Tracker LOL)
So how many on this forum have done the GRR, Cape York and some of the more difficult desert tracks in their off road vans and make of van to please?
I want something that will handle some corrugation and river crossing (not to deep ones thought) I am thinking about a roof top tent for the more adventuress places.

AnswerID: 357081

Follow Up By: Member - T N (Qld) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 21:31

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 21:31
Bruce,
been there, done that and my child bride is the driver,
16-6" internal Kedron Topender with shower and toilet,air-con
230ltr fridge/freezer all the works, she's happy, me i'm grinning.
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Follow Up By: Bushed-Tracker - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 16:32

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 16:32
Been towing nearly four years full time with a 19' Bushtracker. We avoid the main roads and caravan parks like the plauge and spend most of the time out in the wilds - currently out in the little sandy desert WA. Last Year all the back blocks of the Kimberley including 6 weeks on the Gibb - took the van up to the coast at McGowans Island (before the road was graded) and up to the Michell Falls campground - the King Edwards was running 800mm + holes in early may. Later this year we will do the GCR and then flip a coin to see where next.

In thousands and thousand of badly corrugared roads we have replaced the fridge thermostat twice ($50 and 5 mins to fix) and had one puncture. Would I buy a budget priced road van or even one with a bit of checker plate and an Off Road sticker on the side - No. Whats more I can sell my Bt and recoup my money plus some - no problem.

B-T
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FollowupID: 625367

Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Wednesday, Apr 01, 2009 at 09:18

Wednesday, Apr 01, 2009 at 09:18
Thanks Tom and B-T If I was out there full time you would be silly not to have a proper off roader, especially if you want to get away from the madding crowd. My Missus will not sell the house so I will have to stick to some thing a little cheaper. I give her a hurry along every now and again and say when we retire I might sell the house and buy another yacht, that gets her going. thanks again for your replies.

Cheers Bruce
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:31

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 18:31
Ob
We take our van where the average on road van might or would suffer some damage, ie: wash outs, corrugated dirt roads, and even up the beach, it's not the top of the line Off Road Van, with all the bells and whistles like the Trackers ect,it's got Off Road Suspension ect, Heavy Duty 150mm Chassis, I know a fair bit of it was copied from the major off road players, we wouldn,t take it through river crossings ect, like everthing, you pay for what you get, we can take ours to most places we want to go without worrying that we will damage it, but there is a limit, we to would leave it at a secure place and drive in rather than take the risk of damaging it or scraping the sides on narrow tracks ect.

Cheers
Daza
AnswerID: 357083

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 19:03

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 19:03
Chris said: "Let's face it, most of us don't want to shake the tripe out of a $100,000 van behind a $100,000 4WD on the Oodnadatta"
I would guess that you have not driven the Oodnadatta Track Chris? When you do, you will find a full range of "RV" vehicles from carvans to Coasters having a ball up there.
The fact is, unless you are prepared to drive roads like that, then in fact 75% of this great country is off limits to you.
But that's OK because much of the attraction of those places is the fact that fewer people go to them, so PLEASE stay away.....and stick to the bitumen.... :)

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
(Check out the link to get a taste)
AnswerID: 357090

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 19:24

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 19:24
Just thinking about what I said above re 75%....
If you are in Alice Springs, there are 8 routes out...

1. Stuart Highway - Darwin (bitumen)
2. Sandover Highway
3. Plenty Highway
4. Old South Road to Finke and Oodnadatta Track
5. Stuart Highway - Adelaide (bitumen)
6. Great Central Road
7. Gary Junction Road
8. Tanami Road.

NONE of these are beyond a DECENT dirt road van.
We have driven all except the Sandover a couple of times or more.
Guess which are the LEAST interesting ... in order (very subjective, I know)...
1. Stuart to Adelaide.
2. Stuart to Darwin (except the last 200k)
3. Great Central (except the first 200k)
4. Plenty
5. Tanami
6. Gary Junction
7. Finke - Oodnadatta is tops...

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 20:26

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 20:26
Geez Peter
You have to share it mate, lol lol, can't keep these places for your self.
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FollowupID: 625187

Follow Up By: Tenpounder - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:12

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:12
Pete.
You have chosen to miss my point, but that's OK. I'm not so interested in doing things 'because I can'. I'm talking about affordable choices, and yes, I'm sure a LC towing a 3.5tonne Kedron could easily cope with a lot of stuff. What does that prove?
And, yes, I have driven the Oodnadatta, and no, I'm not going to stick to the bitumen, just for you!
Hope the OKA lasts the distance!!
Chris
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:26

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:26
Just about all of Cape York would be out as well. From my recollection there were some of the worst corrugations I can remember up there........

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: Steve - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 20:03

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 20:03
ob,

First of all, it isn't quite as black and white as off-road or not off-road because you've got the in-betweeners as well, like we have. The first question is "where do you want to go"? and the next consideration is: if you decide that you want to go along the Tanami etc you will probably need a top notch off-roader which means a LOT of weight - which means you need a BIG car to pull it with, which means LOTS of fuel. Our soft-roader has comfortably done the Oodnadatta and Strzlecki but there are a few limits to where I would take it. Which is just as well because with school age kids we don't have the time to go on the long-haul treks yet. We'll have the same dilemma in a few years time but there are people on this very forum with big tugs and big vans and I'm sure they have a great time with them. You won't see much change out of $200,000 though. Good luck with your new van and enjoy your trips.
AnswerID: 357101

Reply By: Russ n Sue - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 01:56

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 01:56
Broome to Cape Leveque (gravel section), Tanami Road (especially into Wolfe Creek Crater - geez that was chopped up the last time we went in there), Chambers Pillar, Palm Valley, Old Andado Homestead, Parachilna Gorge, GRR, lots of National Parks (let's face it, they prefer to spend their dollars on things other than roads as a rule)....these are places we've been that are absolutely worth going to, but you wouldn't go there with a non-offroader.

They are all places that a good offroader can do so long as you drive to the conditions. In the end it comes down to what you want to see, what you want to spend on a van and the tug to pull it with, and what you can afford in ongoing fuel costs.

The last item is subjective. We are averaging 16.2L/100 towing our 3.5 tonne Kedron Top Ender, but to me it's not a major impost considering that we have all of the comforts of home right at the back of the car. And we can free camp indefinitely (or at least until the grog runs out.)

Sure, there are many places where we will have to unhitch the van and take the tent, but not as many as we would with a soft roader. And I must reluctantly report that once we'd made the move to a good van, tenting became rather unappealing, so much so that we haven't "camped out" once since getting the van.

Cheers

Russ.
AnswerID: 357183

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:51

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:51
We had a standard van for many years and simply had enough of dropping the van then touring on rough / gravel roads for a couple of hundred k's then returning to pick up the van then off only to have to do it all again.
We finally decided to get a single axle off road van so that we could just keep going where we liked without the tent and all it implies. We have now traversed many of the so called outback roads with this off road van (Regal Desert series).
EG. Gibb River Road, Tanami, Great Central, Cape Leveque, Great Central and many more.
So my advice would be to invest in a dirt roader at least and enjoy the extra comfort that a van offers.
Having said all this we still carry a small tent for those treks like the Simpson where it is simply impracticable to tow a van. Also for the Bungle Bungles where vans are excluded.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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AnswerID: 357201

Reply By: Ozrover - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:37

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:37
Hi ob.

Just something to think about!

We had an old fella in here (Mt Dare) the other day towing an older on road van, when asked if this was a wise thing to do he replied, that it's ok he has had the chassis beefed up!

After heading off to Dalhousie for the night he returned the next morning wanting a broken spring on the van replaced, none in stock so it looked like he was going to have to drive back to Alice to find a replacement, luckily dave was in Alice at the time & had a spring sent out to Kulgera by bus, so he picked it up from there.

This fellow was travelling at between 40-60kph on the corrugations & still broke a spring causing extra stress & financial heartache.

Even if he had replaced the standard springs with decent off road springs it would have been better than expecting a near standard van to cope with some of the outback roads he was travelling on.

AnswerID: 357229

Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:23

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:23
From what I have seen out there it's not just the suspension either. What about all the stuff inside getting shaken about. Are the fittings designed to cope with this sort of abuse? What is the construction of the van in terms of framing? As most road vans, from what I've seen are wood, with staples and glue holding them together.

Wonder how our cars would hold together if constructed like this?

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: ob - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:19

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:19
Hi all

To everyone that took the time and effort to reply my heartfelt thanks. Food for thought?????? I have a veritable banquet!!!

I guess it also shows up the many and varied needs of fellow travellers.

Thanks again ob
AnswerID: 357243

Reply By: Member - DAC (TAS) - Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 20:09

Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 at 20:09
Hi ob,
It was tough forking out for a new Trakmaster, but I stuck with a 16' tandem poptop (X-country) with an outside shower only, no toilet, to minimise weight (& dollars). We did plenty of offroad corrugations including the south road into Dalhousie Springs, the Tanami and even managed to get into Koolpin Gorge in Kakadu,no doubt one of the few caravans to do this as it was not easy. We carried tent as well but it was not needed. Basically, this van was good to tow and the limiting factor was whether the Cruiser could get it where you want to go as the van has plenty of clearance-however, you still need to watch overhanging trees and narrow roads (& soft sand) as the van is a fraction higher & wider than the car. In summary you can upgrade a road van extensively or spend significantly extra money, achieve more places (& be self sufficient) and retain higher re-sale value, much like buying an expensive Ultimate camper but then selling it for a high price (80-90% or more of purchase price). Really depends on how much you can spend in the first place. We went the Ultimate way on our first trip and were more than happy with the outcome, now we do the Offroad caravan way.
Good Luck
DAC
AnswerID: 357316

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