Aboriginal Knowledge and Experience

Marc

I totally agree with you.
I used to be negative, then I thought, what the heck, we are all people and must learn to live together. Colour and race have nothing to do with it....
An Idiot is an adiot, no matter what !
Having said that, I have basically no fear walking into a community.
Try walking alone into a lot of areas of Melbourne, and espacially with my Mrs....

From another perspective, all a lot of my people want to do is learn about the Aboriginal people, and one way in which would be of benefit, is to run a lot more of the "meet the people" or "meet my tradition",... which is not as evident as maybe it should be, in many of the communities. And that is a shame, because when it does happen, it's great.
Since travelling the outback I have meet many brilliant Aboriginal people, and would never have a problem sharing a meal with them, at my place.

Cheers
Bucky

100% agree with you!

On my travels I have met some great Aboriginal families & groups. I remember sitting down with a group of them in the main street of Kunnunara & 2 hrs later getting up & feeling that I really got something out of the time we spent together. In fact I have to say I learnt a lot more from them than sitting down with my friend & disscussing the footy!

Sure they have their social issues but so do lots of white people who live along the coast. In fact I can think of some very disfunctional relatives that I have!

I recall a time that we had an American visitor to our company & I overheard a conversation between my boss & him. Basically our visitor wanted to meet a group of Aboriginals but my boss said that it was a waste of time because all they want to do is lay about drinking. That was the last straw. At that point I saw red & asked him what the difference was of him coming in with a hangover every Monday having had a bender around the pool! He just did not see how hypocritical he sounded with his comments.

Even though this can be a very touchy subject I reckon its great that it is being discussed on this forum.

Marc,

Don't disagree with your comments at all, but there is an entirely separate "group" that is the root of most problems encountered by us "white people".

The problems most travellers experience is with the groups of people who live in "no man's land". The group of people who, by their own offensive behaviour, are not only shunned by us white folk, but have been ostracised by their own tribal communities.
It is these groups of people that we all see when we drive into places like the Alice, Katherine and many other places around the Country. The folk who exist on the "daily special" at the local grog outlet and cause all sorts of problems for themselves, the people they are with and anyone else who passes near by.


Bill.

Hi Marc
Yes, I agree with you, we had some good experiences talking with Aboriginal people, when we we travelling. One thing that created great interest with them, was that we were travelling with two white maltese x poodles, (white fluffy dogs) which most found quite amusing.
Cheers
Neil

Good post Marc .....

Aboriginals are no less worthy of respect than any other race ... and I despise anyone who takes a set against an aboriginal ... just because they are an aboriginal.

Had a lot of aboriginal mates in west Qld back in the day ..... Also have enjoyed the company of quite a few fellas, whilst on trips across the top end .... and the interesting, "genuine" tales they were able to tell in relation to traditional lifestyles.

I particulary remember one comment from some ol scarred up kimberley fellas about 20 odd years ago about how that "rubbish art" as they described it ..... was not aboriginal.

Amazing how times change huh ???? ... Now Bradshaw figures are SOOOOOOOO aboriginal.

Theres some valid reasons for the negativity .... but not the racism.

Well done, Marc, for having the guts to even post this.

My experiences with the limited amount of outback travel I have done have always been positive. Sadly, the 'industry' is what spoils it for many.

May you gain some good from the positive responses you will receive to this post, and ignore the rest.

Jack

Hi Marc
Sometime the negativity has been brought around from both sides of the fence. I always treat everyone the same, both black and white with a common ground of friendship.

Years ago a small family group of aboriginals came into our takeaway shop that we owned. Some people asked why I went up to them and started talking to them, it is just my nature. They were from the APY Lands in the very far north west of our state and I built up a good friendship with them, to the extent that every time that they came through Clare, they would stop and drop into my shop, have a feed and a friendly chat. At the time I did not know it, but he was an Aboriginal Elder and did some important work up in Umuwa.

Over time we met more and more people from his Community when they passed through Clare. When we sold the shop, we were invited up to see Leonard and his family. I knew that it was impossible to get permits to travel through the APY Lands and Leonard told me to put my permits in, pay the required fee which was them $10 per person and around 6 weeks later we received our approved travel permits as you wait for it..."Family Visit" was the reason that was given for our visit.

We did head up there and see Leonard and his family and were able to travel from one side right through to the WA side with no problems at all. We were also invited to attend the APY Games as family friends as well.

That was one visit that we will always remember for many reasons and to this very day I am able to get up there and see some of the many people that we know that are still living up there.

Cheers

Stephen

Hi Marc and others,

Yes there is some negativity and perceived hostility out there to Aboriginal people. Sadly most of the proponents of such are misinformed (don’t have all the facts) or haven't been out with them and stopped to talk.

We, and I generalise here, tend to evaluate things from a white mans perspective and don't understand or maybe want to understand that the Aboriginal people look at things differently. Yet we expect them to look at our things our way.

I'll remember my one week trip earlier this year with Georgina Brown, a Martu woman from the Wiluna area, for as long as I live. I was shown the most incredible things with regards to bush tucker, tracking, plants, animals and stories about her childhood; before she came in from the desert in the late 1970s. It was just amazing.

Marc I would like to thank you on behalf of ExplorOz forumites for explaining and steering the debate with regards to whether some of the Killagurra photos should be removed or not. It was a good discussion and there wasn’t any 'attacking the man'. Well done Marc (and everyone else) and I hope we meet up one day.

cheers to all,

Phil

Spot on Marc!

Like someone else above said, too often we judge the whole race by the few we see in Alice or Coober or wherever.... the ones constantly waiting for the pub to open. Sad for them, but the reality is they seem to accept that as their lot in life. In Coober Pedy, I was told that you don't see the "real" aborigines... they're too busy at work or doing family things that all families do!

We spent 7 weeks this year touring the outback and I came to realize a lot of things, and amongst those things was the aboriginal people. After seeing Kings Canyon, Uluru, Kata Tjuta amongst many other highlights, I think I understand just a little better why they are sacred to the traditional owners. Such awesome beauty! No wonder they feel the way they do! And the people we met in places like Birdsville for instance, Dan Rowlands is the local ranger, and he is a thorough gentleman! Several other stockmen that I had the pleasure of saying G'day to in Birdsville also were thorough gentlemen. A trip through the town of Fincke, where everyone we saw waved and said G'day!!

We also learnt of the work that the good folk at Kings Creek Station, NT, are doing for the local Ukaka clan, a most worthy cause that we are trying to help support.
Check out Conways Kids CLICK HERE to read more about it. Ian and Lyn Conway are doing great things for their neighbours and I for one applaud them! There's a lot more to that story, but that'll do for now!

Anyways, after all that, I certainly have a new respect for these people.

Good post Marc!!

Cheers

Brian

Hi Marc,

The two cultures are so vastly different that a 'natural' form of suspicion exists between them. As previously stated, its cultural rather than racist.

I can be accused of being very negative in the past and a quick read of a few archived threads will reveal this. Sadly, something I cant change. All my experiences with aboriginals have been with the 'urban' mobs and not that positive. However, more recently, I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of Elders in town and am now beginning to understand the culture a little more.

As far as remote communities, I have not, as yet, visited any but I would expect them to be a wealth of knowledge, cultural, traditional and survival. Thats where they live, their turf so to speak.

I personally feel that this current climate of political correctness, all the associated legislations, acts of parliament, race relations etc have put more barriers up than taken down. They seem to be inferring one culture is more precious than another, hence the perceived negativity.

I think you will find that most sit somewhere in the middle. Sure there will be the odd redneck racist trying to do as much damage as the naive condescending do-gooder. Both in they minority I hope.


Cheers......Lionel.

Marc,
As other have said, well done.
In our limited travels we have come across some wonderful Aboriginal people and have had some wonderful discussions with them.
Can remember running into one chap in the Flinders Ranges, and once he realised we were from Tassie he started talking about a trip he had down here
and mentioned places he had been to here, some of which we at that stage hadn't been to.
The part we don't like is when you get to a place like Coober Pedy and you are approached by some one who calls himself "Johnnie Walker" and he wants a couple of dollars for you know what.
We don't think you have opened a tin of worms at all.
It takes a lot of people to keep the world going around and there are good and bad in all races and countries.
Cheers
Baz

I am sorry to say that my experience has been in the negative.
I travel a lot of NSW which may be different than other states and have seen and experienced a lot of racism but not towards aboriginals but by aboriginals and the industry including government departments.
I have seen a lot of so called "positive" descimination that has no bearing on culture.
When the courts consider the a white c to be a personal attach but a black c to be racist there are a lot of laws that differ depending on who you are.
Everyone is created equal but some are more equal than others.

Honky

Good post Marc. 50 or so years ago I wondered why we never had Australian "Stuff" taught in our schools & shown on the media. To this day there is not enough info being taught to our children about Australia. I sometimes do get cranky at the term Indigenous....well I am native to this country but unlike our aboriginal friends I do change colour at times!! Some of the Dreamtime stories I was told as a child I still remember. As a young man of 16 years I had the fortune to meet an Aboriginal man in the Barmah Forest in Victoria. We were camped there and because I did not have parents and was basically a "street kid" (yes even in those days...circa 1966) I was shown everything there was about the forest by this lovely man & I even had a ride in his dug out canoe. THe Murray was in flood & the beauty of the place was even more spectacular when shown things that "looking without seeing" I would never have known existed. We must educate our children at a young age to appreciate this country,it's people & history.

Hi Marc,

Ive had some bad experience with aborigines in the past but I believe with every prob we need to take the colour out of it. If someone is a clown they are just that and not a black clown or a white clown I like to treat people like they treat me. I agree with breaking the ice but have noticed this with other cultures in Africa and particular PNG.

Cheers Wilko

Funny, I haven't picked up on negativity in these forums towards indigenous people. I'm sure the moderators would remove any inappropriate comments, heck they are prettty fast nowadays. I believe like most people that you treat everyone on their merits, you will always get the good and the bad so take that as it comes. I agree with the rest of your comments in terms for sure.

Hi Marc & all involved in this can of worms. I always say that there is the good & the bad in all walks of life.
In most of the bad cases it's the booze, drugs & boredom. Katherine, Coober Pedy, Pt Augusta & The Alice being Prime examples.
We love a chat with tribal Elders but not a drunk person being black or white annoying us at a special celebration meal on our holidays.
Hubby has worked with and we have spoken with many very pleasant Aboriginal people.Both young & old.

I think that there is still a lot of bitterness out there because of what was done to the Aboriginal people & they have reason to be bitter.
So do we, people seem to have forgotten what was done to our convicts, some of whom were truely bad, but young girls convicted for stealing as you say six pieces of bread.
They were sent out in the same ships as the real scum and raped all the way!
Horrendous stories also in the convict camps in Aust.
Those days are long gone and we're a new generation of Australians & we're trying to make a mend to the bad things which were done by other people.

I'd like to see these two subjects taught in all schools so that the next generation understand Australia's early history. Maybe if future generations know both sides of the story & work towards an Australia with far more understanding.
Hubby was made a special member of the Luritja tribe South of the Alice.
On one occasion an Elder said to us that this change will not happen in our lifetime . I mean no offence in what I've said. Take care, Bye,Ma

Thanks Marc

Reading from the posts your comments have been well received and respected. Each time we travel we make a point of trying to find out about the aboriginal history associated with the area, although at times we have found that this can be difficult.

One of the most enlightening books I have read in recent times was ‘Why Warriors Lie Down & Die’ as it puts into much better context some of the issues aborigines face on a daily basis. None the least of which is a language that is ‘foreign’ to them.

You will be top of my list of people to contact if when we head your way.....

Regards, The Landy

Hi Mark Luther, The only real experiences Ive had with Aboriginals are ones with profound disabillitys & there famillys in Port Agusta, as my 24yr son is also in the same care 24/7 in the same facillitys. So far my experiences have been very positive mixing with these people very frendly & caring. Dissabillity is very levelling & it is good to know my son is in verry good care. Daryl

They represent about two percent of our population; yet manage to spend about 25 % of our welfare bank; represent 30 to35 % of our prison population & are responsible for 50% of crime. Yes; I have lived & worked in areas that have high didgi populations ; & have seen them at their worst on more occasions than I care to remember - drunk abusive & without a doubt the most racist ethnic group I have ever encountered. Perhaps there are some good ones; very few I would guess & I have yet to meet one. I can only judge from what I have experienced & encountered in my years of work & travel. They ask for respect but they dont earn it being anti everyone who is not of their race and causing trouble with their drunken antisocial behaviour. I have nothing but disdain for them as a group. If you dont like my opinion - toughy. I live in the real world & tell it how I see it. Take off your rose coloured glasses. You have nothing to be sorry for.

G'Day Marc

I have not walked in your shoes and only have a limited contact with our local Kouri people who I have always found to be pleasant and knowledgeable

What does concern me is walking down the main street of my country town on a Friday or Saturday night. Those causing trouble are young white men full of grog and looking for trouble.

Jim

There seems to be two types of Aboriginals that I have come across.
Those in the rural/outback areas, living and learning traditional ways. (did I say that right?)

Then there are those living in the city, living as a "white fella" and using the racism act when they do get in trouble. These are the ones who give the rest a bad name. Many of these only have the minimum amount of Aboriginal ancestary (1/32 from memory) which many of us "whites" can't understand how they can get all the benefits.

I have met both. I've got all the time in the world for the Rural Mob. Always treated me with respect, and I in return. I have friends amoung the City mob, but all of them say they have more white in them than black, work, don't drink etc.

There would be good and bad in both mobs, just as there are good and bad white fellas

We are all people, there are good bad and ordinary amongst all of us.

Intresting reading all of the above, my concern is we simply can not get anyone local willing to work for us, we want to help and train up someone to be a manager and not a single person is interested, we have like 15 staff "on the books" and lucky to get 4 in for a full day, we pay equal for skilled, unskilled, ticketed or whatever .......
And do i blame them, no as they will get paid by the govt if they DONT work ....

Gaday Marc. You seem to have over simplified what in reality is a very complex series of issues. While many including myself would love nothing better than to sit down & speak with the locals, at times it is very difficult to gain access to communities unless you already know someone that lives there. (Catch 22) Even then the lack of time travellers have to gain trust & the language barrier can make it impossible.
We were fortunate to spend time with an Elder inside the APY lands recently but felt guilty for being there as his house was trashed & then kicked out of his town by his own family. While a few may want contact I get the feeling for the majority in remote areas we are unfortunately not welcome.
Craig...............

Hi Marc, great post, thanks. Yes it's a vexed Q and there seems no end to the difficulties as raised by other posters.

But... in relation to your premise "There seems to be a lot of negativity within many forums, this one included, when it comes to Aboriginal people", I have a different view, in the case of ExplorOz, and one that generally seems borne out by the responses above.

Over the two years now that I have followed the Forum I continue to be pleasantly surprised at the understanding of the issues and sympathy for the problems faced by remote area Aboriginal people.

Even the abrupt shutting down of access to the Calverts and Carnarvon Range area has met with very little upset. Rather, people seem to generally respect Traditional Ownership.

There are other viewpoints but they're usually expressed in a reasonable manner.

I'd like to meet you one day and, as the northern half of the CSR is still on my destination list, I hope I get the opportunity.

Cheers.

Yes 100% right there are good and bad in all people no matter where you were born and what race you belong to and we should be giving all people a fair go equally. Unfortunately not everyone thinks on the same plane.

Whislt I had a negetive comment this is a great post and gives me some hope for the future.
Most of the comment are from people who have visited and seen the Australia as it is in all in glories and problems so can comment with knowledge
It seems that a lot of major decisions are made by people that are unaware of what the real Australia is like and are not willing to find out.
Again in NSW any visits by politicians are sanatized and I have heard of even moving any troublemakers out of town to paint a rosier picture than it is.
It is interesting about some of the references to Aboriginals that act like whites.
The term used in Country NSW and please note this is their term is "Coconut" black on the outside and white in the middle.
And if someone can explain the term "Murray" which is used in northern nsw and Qld not Kouri?

Honky

FollowupID: 703864 Submitted: Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 00:43
SDG posted:
................... None of them know anything about their heritage, except for what they learn at school during NAIDOC week, which some, from my understanding is inaccurate or misleading.
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Can only re-iterate that comment ...

NAIDOC week success is primarily dependant on the involvement and actual knowledge of the aboriginals in the community tho.


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FollowUp 2 of 3 FollowupID: 703867 Submitted: Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 00:58
Member - Marc Luther B (WA) posted:

......... Unfortunately I can understand the disapproval of some of the locals. Even in Perth the Noongar people have a strong dislike for the tribal people in the Kimberleys, as they simply do not understand.

Personally I would do what the youngsters want, and if they want a sense of their true heritage, then cater for that., By the way, what the heck is NAIDOC week, and how do they learn about culture during this week. I have asked my wife, my father in law and a few others, and we have not heard of this week.

It would be interesting to know why a week is set aside to teach people what tribal people take their lives to learn.

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I can understand the disapproval as well ... The inter-tribal animosity ... and even the inter -family animosity Ive witnessed ..... seems to cause huge rifts which prevent making changes for the better.

Lack of co-operation between LALC's (tribes) in NSW is obvious ..... but then as is the case with most govt style operations ..... department heads are always cagey about sharing any glory .... or losing any individual benefits ... despite the greater good that could be achieved.

And then there is the belief that only aboriginals know enough about aboriginals and "REAL" assistance such as SDG intends ... is shunned.

e.g. Recently a trainee - newly hired into an established aid group, instructed the group manager not to enter a clients house because ...

" you're white and dont know about us ".

and demanded a vehicle of their own ..... or they would quit.

Not bad job ettiquette for a "trainee" huh ????


The GLOSSY and OFFICIAL insight to NAIDOC ---> NAIDOC

Whether it is actually of use / a success in depends on the aboriginal involvement.

Here in NSW - Some LALC's manage quite a good turnout ..... Generally the week is a bit "carnival" like ... with aboriginal displays and attractions ... and general all round community involvement.

The idea of which seems to be to promote some knowledge and understanding for ALL ... not just aboriginals.

Where-as in other NSW LALC areas ..... Its just the local govt depts/welfare groups doing their "obligatory bit" for the week .... and the LALC presence is extremely "low key" ... despite the amount of funding available to put on a show.