End of the "free" camp

Submitted: Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:07
ThreadID: 98287 Views:6072 Replies:26 FollowUps:66
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Due to the stroke of a pen and a Progress for Profit. I was shocked on 27SEP2012 to find one of Our greatest camping destination here in South Australia has been converted from being a Free Camp site to grab money out of our pockets. In the Flinders Ranges near Quorn is Warren Gorge. Well over ten years its been my whole family's favorite Camping destination from Adelaide. Some bright Spark lacking a real flame has started extending the bitumen road from Quorn up the Road to the Gorge AND set a price of $2.00 for a 'day visit' and $7.00 for an 'over night camp'. My wife and I after paying $170.00 for fire wood, drove up to the gorge from Adelaide (paying for Fuel), immediately turned around and returned to Quorn for advice on other 'free to camp' sites. Council Office and Tourist information Centre both say 'none'. Normally we stay 4 nights, spend money in the town, dine out at one of the pubs, buy fuel and visit family there. Not anymore. We don't suffer because we get a new adventure to find another free camping spot and to explore and enjoy the new area. Its the town that will suffer if other "free to Camp" Campers like us think the same and do the same.
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:21

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:21
Use the term Ratepayer Funded Campsite and you will come to understand that nothing is free. There are costs that need to be covered and it's only fair that the user should pay.

If there was a campsite provided in your hometown, why should your rates be used to subsidise travellers from elsewhere? It's the same in the place you refer to.

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Follow Up By: Life Member - esarby (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:29

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:29
I have been searching for the past 70 odd years for a way to get something for free. The only thing I have found is Fresh Air But then I still have to pay to drive out of the city to find it. Is there anything that is FREE?

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Follow Up By: RC524UHF - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:41

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:41
The Fresh air maybe free but watch that carbon you breathe out .. some woman is taxing carbon and she might just do it to exhausted breath one day!!!!!
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Follow Up By: racinrob - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:24

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:24
Gone Bush. You are 100% correct, "free" council camp sites impact on the local ratepayers, businesses might get some benefits but the local residents pay to maintain the site through their rates, no such thing as a free lunch !
We often stay at the Thora free camp site (NSW) where local volunteers clean the toilets and provide toilet rolls and soap and ask for a small donation, doubt they cover their costs.

rr
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:26

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:26
There is merit in the "user pays" ethos but it hasn't suddenly become "user pays" out of fairness to the locals. It's because the freeloading dopes in council have spent all the ratepayers' money on perks or other stupid and unnecessary projects and there's nothing left in the trough - so like the fresh air tax we are now paying, we have to pay to set up camp and even set foot anywhere where we might be enjoying ourselves that used to be free. I haven't noticed anybody near where I live complaining about any "free" tourist facilities.
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 07:10

Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 07:10
Hmmm yeh well I stayed a week at the free camp at Longreach on the way down here to freeze your ass off country, it's situated near the old hwy bridge and is very popular , I did hear a story about it where the council was going close it but the whole town rose up in favor of the tourists and it's still open, why.... because it brings trade to the town, while I was there I spent money in the town , I bought fuel, groceries, and visited the museums that also gave money to the town. Every night the camp is packed out and generators going , no one complains, by 9pm it's all quiet.

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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:26

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:26
It's a sign of the times and I think user pay is a good solution to improving camp sites and the general area.

It must of not been a very good camp site if you think paying for it is a waste of money and your only talking an extra $28 for you 4 day stay..... pretty cheap hey!

I find camp sites that have a fee attached to them help keep the unwanted out and lead to a better experience.

Most free camp areas have a maximum stay period and in some that can be overnight only.

Part of getting out and about is exploring new areas and camp sites.

Will be up at Quorn tonight for 3 days..... I don't have a issue of paying a small token fee, we will be staying at a friends place and he doesn't charge us but it will cost us about $120 extra for food and wine as a token gesture to wine and dine them.....

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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:28

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:28
Not quite sure what your thread has to do with the header????

Unfortunate that your free campsite is no longer free. However, if you'd only spent $140 on firewood, then you would have the $28 necessary to camp there for 4 days.

".......drove up to the gorge from Adelaide(paying for fuel)." You'll find most people, when they want to go somewhere in their vehicle, do pay for fuel.

There's been much discussion on this site lately above "free sites", and I believe the consensus would be that free sites are becoming a thing of the past, due to all the people seeking, using, and often abusing them.

Bob.
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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:32

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:32
We have now modified the title of this post as it must have been submitted as a page comment on the Lifetime Membership, which was confusing.
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Reply By: Aussi Traveller - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:30

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:30
Are you for real??
You will pay $170 for fire wood to burn but you wont pay a few bucks for a camp spot, I seriously can't understand some people.
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Follow Up By: Member - Prickle (SA) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:10

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:10
I am a tight A....., but having made 30+ trips to this area over the years, I agree with you. Have a smaller fire set up, (can be done in a 9kg gas bottle - old and cut down of course :) ) and spend the money on the camp site. If not happy stay in a caravan site and see how much you will pay.
Russ


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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:37

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 08:37
Good morning
Not having been to Warren Gorge, i imagine that the local council is sick of cleaning the place. There is the cost of a truck $125000.00 = cost for the day $500.00, three mens wages per day $600.00 +,tipping fees even though the council own the tip the costs come out of the locals rates , fuel and running costs , all mount up for the council involved. So in the end the costs are about $ 1200.00 to $1500.00 for the day just to clean up after a long weekend. Ok?



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Follow Up By: RC524UHF - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:43

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:43
And I though all great and good campers cleaned up after themselves and removed all rubbish ...... don't tell me you don't do this??
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Follow Up By: River Swaggie - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:08

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:08
Here is someones idea of having a great time away.Its a sure bet it will be cleaned up before there next trip back there (look it just disappeared ,sarcastic)..Lets get another one going.There grubs and it of course affects us all..



This is N.E of Lcola in the Barkly River area on the way into Butcher Country,which can be accessed by 2wd vehicles not just 4wdrives.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:44

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:44
Looks like a UHF arial in there right at the start of the clip ?? 4wd maybe ?? Either way as you said, bloody disgraceful..................No wonder as well as charging (which I dont have an issue with) there shutting places down due to morons like this who leave their bleep everywhere......
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:57

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:57
No I don't RC524uhf.

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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:56

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:56
Kimba10,
If you have a good look at it I think you will find it's a fishing rod.
Cheers Dave.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:12

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:12
Hi Dave yeah I reckon your right. Can see the pattern on it where the rings are..............
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Follow Up By: River Swaggie - Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 14:55

Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 14:55
Your spot on guys it was a fishing rod...from memory they abused it and it failed where the reel screws onto the rod...So rather than take it home and dispose off it properly they just made another trash heap for someone else to dispose of...
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Reply By: Fred G NSW - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 09:17

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 09:17
I am having trouble getting my head around the fact you spent $170 on firewood. ???

At $19.95 per fill, that will fill the 9kg lpg bottle on my caravan 8 times, enough for probably 2 years.

The one positive with the charging of fees for former free campsites, is that many of the ratbag sector will not be back.

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:05

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:05
Fred,
He is burning Qld red cedar. At $170 that fire should last about 15 mins.

RA.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:51

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:51
Fred,
Nothing is half as entertaining as the wood powered bush TV mate. LOL
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Reply By: RC524UHF - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 09:47

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 09:47
I buy fire wood .. take a third and save the rest for two more trips. I enjoy dirt roads i have a 4x4, and I enjoy REAL camping not plastic camping. I enjoy visiting an area - exploring it and supporting the local businesses. I enjoy getting away from my retired city life and enjoying the camp outs I use to enjoy on the far west coast of South Australia as a child 1960's style. Camping in a tent or a swag. I enjoy getting out and trying to stay healthy. I support a lot on employers by spending my money and I like to get a little free tree to camp by to make up for my spending. We are slowly becoming nanny people with nanny ideals and lumping fridges, solar panels generators and chemical toilets and a Nanny if some others could find one. We go out and rough it out of tins and a fire. Judge me as you will .. BUT its our camping style in the true sense of the word "Camping out" as we see it.
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Follow Up By: sweetwill - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:14

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:14
Hello.
Americans call it Survivor Australians call it camping.
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 13:12

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 13:12
hi
read your thread with interest and have come to conclusion that what your not excepting is that things just arent what they used to be and you need to adapt to the changes regarding fees this is 2012 not 1960 its a fact of our current lives i grew up in the 1960's as well and have moved forward with the timesand other changes too numerous to mention
i personelly dont mind the small and moderate fees attached to camping areas and the rangers who keep a check on a daily basis and tidy up the sights and put in improvement where needed
i too am some what taken back by your wood supply cost and how you state you had to buy fuel etc
well hello i and everyone else also have to shell out for these items plus food at home and/or when we go camping or travelling
theres also a fee attached to dying in case you werent aware of it!!!!
in reality isnt that what living costs are generally about ???????
like they say you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time
enjoy the good times while they last as they are fast disappearing when it comes to the old world standards cheers
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Follow Up By: RC524UHF - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:39

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:39
Even the humble explorer went further afield to find what he wanted ... I, and my family, will do the same. I would rather stay at home and play on line "World of Tanks" that become a cotton wool camper - one might as well weld a draw bar to their home and tow that with the amount of 'junk' some take camping. Got my mind on a nice tree north of Oodnadatta.
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:44

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:44
I have tons of firewood available I can sell you for that trip :-))
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Follow Up By: Member - eighty matey - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:41

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:41
G'day RC524UHF,

I hear you.

It's a pity so many people feel the need to bag you out instead of listening. They could have ignored your post but feel the need to have a go at you.

There's plenty of places out there. When you find another good place keep it to yourself. Don't let the whingers know about it or they'll be ringing up the Council to get the garbage truck up there.

Have fun,
Steve
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Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:06

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:06
RC524UHF
Just to quote you "Judge me as you will .. BUT its our camping style in the true sense of the word "Camping out" as we see it."

How dare you call people on this site that don't feel that the world owes them a living " a cotton wool camper " just because we choose to camp in a paid camp ground when we feel like it.

I have spent many years camping in a swag by the camp fire, I have also stayed in caravan parks and even after a long day grabbed a motel room.

Judge me as you will, but just because I can afford and choose to travell this country any way I like does not make me a cotton wool camper, I can walk out my front door tomorrow with nothing more than the clothes on my back and survive for months.

Any way I feel better in the knowledge that if I camp in a paid camp ground I wont have to listen to you in the next site whining about it.
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Reply By: Member - Old Girl - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:36

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:36
Ühm excuse me but whats "plastic camping"?
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Follow Up By: RC524UHF - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:54

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:54
Plastic Camping aka Cotton Wool Camping (and too many mods and cons) to me is Camping back as I enjoyed it not today's nanny ways of doing and dragging extra weight along. However I will leave your answer you are seeking to you own imagination as we all have our preferred methods and ways of camping that may or may not suit others and I am only expressing MY views how I camp; along with my disappointments of yesterday that has put a change as to where I seek my camping places. There is, I am sure, another town/community that has free camping near by and they will, when we find them, get our support and business ... until change catches up there.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:24

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:24
RC524UHF, does that mean you have one of those mod con radios and not an old 27meg CB?
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Follow Up By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:44

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:44
My niece, around 30 yr old, told me I was "Glam-ping" recently. lol. Bob
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:15

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:15
Love it. We Glam-ping every school holidays due to work com so thats an average 4 months out of the year, couldnt rough it that often. Bugger if id pay that much for fire wood but.Our neighbours are burning off, im over smell of fires, we have to stand in the bathroom for internet atm, now thats roughing it lol. The other day i had to sit in the car over the hill to send an assignment, thats roughing it. Ah dear talk about rave on.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:08

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:08
I reckon she's right Toyo, you ARE Glam-ping mate!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2012 at 15:10

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2012 at 15:10
Ha Ha. Good on ya Bonz.
(replied on the iphone the other day but it didn't go through)
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Follow Up By: patrolmann - Friday, Oct 05, 2012 at 15:09

Friday, Oct 05, 2012 at 15:09
Rc,
for goodness sake mate lighten up.
Your happy to spend hundreds of $$$ on fuel to travel up there and then hundreds of $$$ on wood to burn but you wont spend $28.00 to camp in a clean and tidied up campsite.
If people want to take all their plastic stuff with them how is that hurting you ?
All I can say is I hope I never have to share a campsite with your attitude.
cheers
Patrolman
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:38

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:38
$7 a night for campsite is unbelievably cheap.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rob Mac (QLD) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:37

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:37
true Phil, try $5.00 a night (unpowered) at Windorah c/p on the way to Birdsville this year
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:35

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:35
Was there room Rob, thought it would have been packed. $5 is great, clean hot showers and the rest.
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:54

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 14:54
Time doesn't even stand still for really remote bush destinations .... Warren Gorge might as well be listed as downtown Quorn - hell.... haven't there been black-tie orchestral concerts staged in there ? Drive further RC..... its 2012 now.
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Follow Up By: KevinE - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 09:46

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 09:46
"Drive further RC....." My thoughts too!

I know everyone sees things differently, but Quorn is a tad on the tame side through my eyes. A very nice place to stop, but not a destination I'd choose.

There again, we're all different & that's what makes life interesting! ;)

By the way, as an ex infantry soldier who has dug many a hole in the bush to sleep in & had to take down my hootchie & sleep in the rain because hootchies shine when wet, I find the references to "cotton wool camping" & "plastic camping" amusing! ;)
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Follow Up By: RC524UHF - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2012 at 15:38

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2012 at 15:38
Ex-RAAF ADG here .... so "we" are on the same wave length as to hootchie camping .. THIS is the camping I still enjoying now at 60 years of age.
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Reply By: Member - Rod D (VIC) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:29

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:29
Im not sure I understand this.
Youre going to drive north of Oodnadatta to camp free under a tree rather than pay $28 to camp for 4 nights?
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:45

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:45
Quite simply, a fool and their money are easily parted. There's nothing anything anybody could say to this person to make him change his mind.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:13

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:13
I dont think he was expressing a need to change his mind just to share his thoughts, and I doubt he's a fool
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Reply By: Rockape - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:30

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 15:30
Mate,
Just to give you an idea of the cost to the ratepayer.

Typical free camp site.

Water tank 100k to 150 K from council depot. People filling their water containers at the tank supplied. It costs the local council heaps to truck that water in.

Cleaning and maintaining toilets and bins is another trip and cost to the council. Toilet rolls stolen and toilets vandalised.

Basic maintenance of the access road, putting a blade over it for 1 hour as the grader passes to do other roads. This 1 hour is the minimum time for a short track and this is not allowing for repair after a wet season.

Not having a go at you but just answering your post looking from another angle.

Have a good one,
RA.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:13

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:13
Hi RA,
I am not sure that there is much at Warren Gorge in the way of facilities.

As far as I know there may not even be a pit toilet, although if there is, it and rubbish bins may be the only facilities.

Cheers, Bruce.

At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:35

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:35
Bruce,
I have never been there and I am sure you are right.

What I was trying to say is nothings free. Many are travelling now and I have watched first hand what is happening and the stress it is putting on local councils. I am sure we will see more of the charges being applied due to the numbers and the amount of up keep it takes to keep these areas serviced. An instance of this is a road or track that has no reason for being there except for the fact it goes to a pretty place.

The larger towns get the economic benefit. But the small towns in the area are where people avoid buying things because of the extra cost. So the shire gets screwed.

RA.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:29

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:29
I was not dissagreeing with you RA infact I was merely saying that there was not much there in the way of facilities.

I was planning to go there in Oct but an injury has put paid to that plan for this year.

SA has a lack of facilities for the touring public from what I have seen in the short while I was in that state in both 07 and 08.
That is not to say there is not plenty to see and do, I really like SA.

I have also witnessed first hand the sorts of problems outline by yourself and other responders with rubbish left piled high in camp sites and bottles left on a fire to burn away, all this when 200 litre rubbish bins were provided. It turns out they were locals from the next town. Not travelling public as such. And that was a beautiful FREE camp and I would gladly have paid $10 per night for that as it was on the waters edge where you could put your tinny in and go fishing.

Frankly, from what I have seen SA needs to lift its game a bit.

For $7 per night I can get a much better camp than that which Warren Gorge provides. In fact I can get a waters edge site near Tamworth for $5 per night. For $10 per night I can get flushing loos and firewood provided in a National Park here in NSW at Apsley Falls near Walcha.

The real problem is I think that Warren Gorge has received Australia wide publicity in Caravan and Motorhome 2 issues back but then so did Quorn.
Are they about to cash in on that or are they getting prepared for the onslaught. As you suggest, maybe the latter.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:00

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:00
Bruce,
don't get me wrong the more discussion on these things is more than healthy.

I never took it that way at all and I do respect and listen as others.

One of the big problems for states is infrastructure. When all the people arrive they have nothing in place to cater for them so the local taxpayer, whether it be state or local council foots the bill to upgrade or cater for the increased use of the area.

Right or wrong Australia is shrinking under the increase of population and disposable income.

Times they are a changing.

Bruce all is good and happy travels

RA,
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Reply By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:43

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 16:43
part of the issue would have been bituminising the road out there

in 98 I stopped off at Rocky pool out from canarvon, corragated roads there

there was one family there and they left while I was looking around - no one lese.

fast foward to 2009 when i next visited and first thing I noticed was the bitumen road.

next thing I noticed was the grey nomad free camp city that spring up at any bituman accessable place they can

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:09

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:09
I paid taxes for 40+ years.
A significant beneficiary of some of that tax were National Parks.
Do we now expect to have a fee to use every public toilet, a fee to go to the beach, will every road be a toll road?
Very much looks like it.

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:37

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:37
Only a matter of time Peter, but I doubt in our time. Like they say, the only 2 certainties in life are death and taxes :-(
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:56

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:56
'i paid taxes'...
I've never understood that statement. Everyone pays taxes. When I hear that I think the person that says it means they think they are special because they paid taxes and deserve special recognition.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:25

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:25
Of course everybody pays taxes, but what are they for?
They are (in part) to pay for publically available services and facilities that we all need and use.
I help pay for the road past my house but everyone can use it. I get the same consideration when I visit another town.
That is the way it should be.

Local ratepayers don't pay any more or less for the National Parks in the Flinders than I do. Nor should they. They are public facilities.

Our "local" National Park is at Belair in the Adelaide hills. It is just a couple of km from home. We used to visit with our kids on a regular basis, but we can't afford to take our grandchildren.

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:45

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:45
If you drive through Europe you have to pay to use public toilets just about everywhere, even at the garages.
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:55

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:55
Hi Peter,

I think there is a misunderstanding by the general public on what public facilities are. There are plenty of public facilities in metropolitan areas, but the cost for these in country towns are significantly more. It generally is the local councils that are burdened with these costs.

I'm not saying you've got no right to complain, I just like to present other views to help everyone get a better understanding.

Belair is a beautiful park. There are some cute geocaches within the park too.

I struggle to understand though how a person can afford the petrol to go from belair to the flinders but yet cannot afford to take their grand kids out.

To me, anything under $10 for an overnight stay is a steal. I could understand if they were asking $50 for basic services, but this is only a modest amount.
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Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:22

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:22
Peter_n_Margaret

We all pay taxes, I talk to the Director of National Parks ( Parks Australia) from time to time, in a recent discusion he mentioned that it was easy to get capital funds for infrastructure, but it wasn't that easy for operational funds, therefore a user pays system comes into effect, I find this a reasonable request.
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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:53

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 17:53
Could some of you city folks please give us country folks a heads up as to where all the free accommodation is in the big smoke cities, sometimes us country folks have to travel to the cities and I'm just wondering where the FREE CAMPS are? Is it OK to pull the camper trailer into one of the nicely groomed Park Lands for a week or so.

BTW we'll bring our own home killed beef and fresh rainwater cause we don't like that foul tasting fluridated stuff.

And don't worry about toilets, we'll just take a #2 behind a tree in your park and just leave it and the toilet paper there to blow away.

Lyn
AnswerID: 495840

Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:18

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:18
Lyn, that is the best reply by a country mile that I have ever heard on here. Good onya luv.

Fred
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Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:58

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:58
Fair statement Lyn.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:21

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:21
fluridated water is a hell of alot nicer tasting than the fluride treatments we would get from the travelling dentists van at schoolbecause we only had rain water

as for looovly tasting rain water

i remember looking into various tanks we drank out of at school/home and other places and there was a mat of at least 1/2 a metre of mice floating in all the tanks in varying stages of decay

it was the early 80s eaverything was full of mice


rose coloured glasses any one?
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:07

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:07
Lyn,
I have drunk water from a bore that was about 50 times the max world standard for fluoride.

i have also been subjected to radiation from bores for 12 months.

I want to know where you get this rain water from LOL.

I glow in the dark and have good teeth,
RA.
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:01

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:01
The other thing for us country folk to deal with are those damn TOLL ROADS, you just can't avoid them. Everyone of the city folks have one of little beepers somewhere which evidently every time they beep you just spent another $5. If you don't have one of the beepers someone must be sitting somewhere cause you get a bill and a pretty photo of your car. There is even one in Sydney that goes under the the water ..............but they didn't put any windows in it so you can see the fishes.

I've also wondered why ............in the city if you do a wheelie it's call hooning and the cops come and take your car for a month. Wish we had the same laws in the country for when the city folks insist on driving on our roads in the wet in their 4WD's leaving us wheel ruts to contend with for the next few months until the grader comes around again.

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Follow Up By: dbish - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:01

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:01
In Adelaide the Free camping area is in the South Parklands, you will have to be prepared to share with the homeles.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:37

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:37
""Could some of you city folks please give us country folks a heads up as to where all the free accommodation is in the big smoke ""

Anytime your passing through my suburb your welcome to park your camper in my back yard and Ill even hook up the town water for you and you can have access to any of my 3 fully flushing toilets and Ill even let you use the shower with hot running water for free, I do ask you get your husband to put the seat back down when he's finished.

I would let you park on the front lawn but its a bit steep so you will be rolling out of bed. Actually I just thought you wont even have to disconnect the trailer or put it up. We are having an extension built in the next 2 months so you will be able to to have a nice queen size bed with amenities right next to you as our old main bedroom will be becoming our guest room again all for free, you may need to boot the cat off your feet like I do, just wait till you hear it jump then put your foot in the air and it will divert back to ground level.

Bloody cat, useless animals.........
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Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:29

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:29
Lyn W3

That is GOLD

The only problem is those city folk don't understand our sence of humour.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 07:48

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 07:48
Just thinking it doesnt sound like Lyns lived in the country long or they would know closing roads just for a bit of rain is a fairly new thing

back in the day a bit of rain was the cue for us country young fellas to take to the roads for a good old time of country mayhem

even if you wertent so young just driving the 100ks or so of slippery dirt track for a game of footy was a mission

just because there was a bit of rain you didnt go and hide inside with closed roads
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 08:34

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 08:34
get outmore,
I know what you mean, we used to drive 100k to Goondiwindi on a friday night come hell or high water.

Mate a couple of years back got bogged on the Mckinlay, Gilliat road, so he walks the excavator of the float and drags the whole rig for the next 12k. That would have left a few scars. Bloody tourist.

RA.
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:55

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:55
Lyn well said im still laughing. Im currently deciding if i should park the car at the gate knowing the rain is coming, have to go to town later and i wont get out the drive. Biggest problem is the friggin slimy bastard i just seen there. We had to go the long way to get to the house because i had mexican riding boots on, but that road is black soil. Now thats roughing it. Hehe
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Reply By: dublediff - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:56

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 18:56
I hear your pain.....but!!! I had the privilege of visiting warren gorge last year. The black footed wallabies in their natural setting were a delight. The rock formations and general vegetation on the hillside were a photographers dream. What surprised, and dismayed me was the mega fireplaces and spider web of tracks on the flat 'camping areas'. It is a wonder that the greenies have not been able to shut this one down. I'm sure that If there were not so many rocks on the hill then attempts would have been made to drive up the bloody hill as well! There are no facilities there....a mere trickle of a creek and some fantastic vistas. It deserves protection, regulation, and sadly some fee structure to ensure this...this will keep the rednecks out and ensure access for all of us who enjoy camping...as opposed to 'plastic camping' whatever that is...I do have some plastic camp chairs..does that count. Eric.
AnswerID: 495844

Reply By: Imperial - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:39

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:39
Oh suck it up precious! We stayed there last month on our way from Toowoomba to Arkaroola. Indeed it is a beautiful spot with amazing sunsets and rock colours. Portable toilets and numerous bins were provided and you may be amazed to know it wasn't free at all. At the entrance were information boards AND a donation box to help pay for the costs of the place. We put our loose change in ($7.50) and thought we were getting great value at the time. It is good to know you won't go there again as it means we won't encounter you and have to put up with your whining.
Even the rare yellow footed rock wallabies will appreciate you not returning as they are very shy and you will be one less to disturb them.
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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:10

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:10
Theres no need for personal jibes Imperial
Moderation is just rules

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Follow Up By: Imperial - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:55

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:55
Apologies. I agree it was unnecessary but am becoming increasingly frustrated by the constant demand people are making for others to provide them with free facilities. No repetition. Regards, Imperial
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Reply By: passionfruit - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:52

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 19:52
I'm with you RC524UHF,I still look for a great camp site that is 'free' with no other camper's around if I can.That is why I have 4WD and rough it as to escape the rule and regulations of 21 century living---------------finding that spot is part of the journey.
AnswerID: 495847

Follow Up By: gordon_adel - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:21

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 20:21
Nothing wrong with free camping passionfruit. But to complain because a previous free site now charges a minimal fee just sounds a bit cheap and silly. Then to go and drive all the way to oodnadatta just to save $28, well that just seems stupid.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:55

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 22:55
passionfruit,
But Warren Gorge is a stone's throw from Quorn and accessible in a Barina.
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Reply By: Member - silvwayne - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:16

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:16
We consider ourselves lucky. We will be free camping, including power and septic toilets, for the majority of the year. Have just been at Ivanhoe for 7 weeks, heading for Seymour atm for 2 weeks, then next door to Willandra NP. Next Feb will be in Louth Tilpa area for 3 to 4 months. By the way we get paid while we're doing it. We love our jobs.

Wayne and Silvia
AnswerID: 495852

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:18

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:18
The first time we travelled the GRR, there was grass growing between the wheel tracks.
Now it is a highway and the traffic is 100 times more, all the free camps have been closed and we are confined to commercial camping sites.

What will be the reaction if they turn the Rig Road into a highway and charge $200 a car to use it and confine everyone to caravan parks along the way?
Far fetchched? I don't think so!

I would prefer LESS development of roads and infrastructure to these wild and remote places. Leave them for those who are passionate about visiting them and make it too hard for the majority to get in, otherwise they will be gone.

Cheers,
Peter
AnswerID: 495853

Reply By: Motherhen - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:57

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 21:57
We drove quite some distance to spend a night at Warren Gorge on our way home from our last big trip. I would still do so at the price quoted. Although cost of camping is an issue, it is more about location for me. We paid the price (daily entry plus camping fees) for some NSW NPs because we wanted to go there, even though the only facilities offered were a pit toilet. The cost of fuel to get us there is huge - we will not be put off camping in locations we want to see by a few fees. Overall we find plenty of opportunities to spend most nights in solitude under the stars on our travels. It's a big wide open country when you get into the lesser populated areas.

Motherhen
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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:08

Friday, Sep 28, 2012 at 23:08
I seriously doubt at $7 that anyone is looking to make a profit out of this site rather recoup some of the costs associated with maintaining the area & more importantly put a cap on visitor numbers to a sustainable level by making it less attractive to the group of people that have a history of leaving a mess.
Unfortunately RC we are loving our free campsites to death.
Cheers Craig.........
AnswerID: 495859

Reply By: Member - Woodsy - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 07:23

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 07:23
Hi RC524UHF and other ExplorOzites

I have camped in Warren Gorge 4 times over the years and believe that it is a great spot.

My wife's first use of a swag (at 60 +years old) was there and we experienced the most idyllic overnight and day camping that I have ever experienced. I commented to her that this was the most perfect swagging conditions that I had ever encountered and not to expect this every time.

There are some toilet facilities available and the place was kept in pretty good and clean nick

I would not begrudge paying a fee next time to use this magnificent spot.

RC524UHF, if you want to be a curmudgeon then that is your right. Just don't camp near me, and if you don't want to use Warren Gorge, then I am sure that the rest of us are OK with that.
Happy 4 wheeling

Woodsy

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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 09:55

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 09:55
Aw come-on guys. How about we move on.

There has not been a new thread on this forum since 2:35am this morning!!!!!!



Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:16

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 14:16
Good suggestion, Allan.

Funny the way the stats go. 2236 views of this thread, & heaps of replies/follow-ups, because someone didn't want to spend $28.(His choice)

A later thread, on Fatigue, and just before a holiday weekend, has struggled to get just over 500 views, and a mere 3 or 4 replies.

Human nature, i guess???

Bob.

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 16:50

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 16:50
Yep, it's all in the headline Bob. Just like newspapers.

Now if the thread had said "Death from Fatigue" then it may have generated more interest.

We humans really are a pathetic lot. Well, most of us. lol

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Member - Warrie (NSW) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 20:14

Saturday, Sep 29, 2012 at 20:14
Well worth the read. This thread has brought out some great Aussie humour, almost like the days when Willem was around. LOL. Anyway we are free camping on the banks of the Murray near Echuca. The campfire is blazing under a full moon. JJ Cale is on loud, the net is available and there's nobody around to disturb. MAGIC.... Warrie
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 09:09

Sunday, Sep 30, 2012 at 09:09
Interesting thread RC -glad you raised the issue.

We support more free camping and I don't accept the arguement that it costs xyz to
maintain it and so one should pay.

The problem is that we are in an ever expanding loop of creating rules and then using that by-law as a means of then justifying the expenditure.

Like funnelling cars into fewer outback roads then blaming them for depletion of the roadside fire wood reserves.

Before anybody asks me for money for camping in public areas I first require them to justify why the majority of the massive amount of money we pay on fuel taxes is not spent on the road infrastructure.

At the start of this thread someone said the user should pay.

I am happy to make the following deal - give me back my car taxes and I will pay for my share of road stuff.

Guess who will come out in front !
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 13:30

Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 13:30
Hullo Robin

You raise an issue that is a little more complex than you seem to imply - fuel excise, who pays and where is it spent.

Just to touch on a few points. Firstly, the excise raised that could be attributed to travel on rural roads, including highly trafficked rural freeways such as the Hume, Pacific and Bruce Hwys, barely starts to cover their cost, both contruction and maintenance. The fact is that rural roads are heavily subsidised by excise on the fuel used in urban travel. This fuel excise is collected at the Federal level.

Secondly, there are three tiers of govt in Australia responsible for road construction and maintenance, namely, the Commonwealth for the national hwy system, state govt the main road system and local govt the local road system. Whilst local govt is responsible for a significant percentage of the total length, they are generally lower cost roads. However, local govt in rural areas generally have a lower tax base.

To the case in point. Warren Gorge is not a Commonwealth or state responsibility; it is maintained by the local council. They have installed a (relatively) new abultions building on the right as you enter the camping area and regularly keep it clean, empty the bins, grade the roads and keep the place tidy. For my part, I have no problem what so ever in paying the minimal fee of $7 / night to camp there.

If you do want to get excited, note that as well as the excise on diesel, there is a 18c/l levy to pay for the damage to roads attributed to heavy vehicles. This was introduced instead of the old log book based method and is a more efficient way of collection as well as reducing the avoidance endemic in the old system. The issue here is that all diesel sold through the public service station network is levied, including that sold to light vehicles, even though light vehicles including 4WDs contribute very little to pavement damage due to their axle weight (damage increases as to the 4th power of weight and so really only starts to become an issue after about 3 or more tonnes per axle. Given the increased percentage of light vehicles now powered by diesel engines, there is real case for devising a practical way of making sure only heavy vehicles pay this levy. This would restore the cost difference previously enjoyed by diesel.

Maybe start talking to your local federal member! :-)

Cheers
Andrew

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 15:18

Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 15:18
Good post Andrew.

Re: "....there is real case for devising a practical way of making sure only heavy vehicles pay this levy."

Maybe put the levy on large truck tyres instead of on diesel?
Tyre life is proportional to load and mileage.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 20:14

Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 20:14
That might be a fairer levy, from a truckie's view too, Allan.

With a triple road train struggling to do much better than 100L/100km(1km/L), when loaded, the tyre idea might suit them.

Generally, trucks get pretty good mileage from tyres(certainly better than I get off my toyota LOL) and a 11R22.5 trailer tyre would be cheaper than a Cooper or BFG in say, 285/75R16.

You thought about doing some consulting for the government, Allan? (They need all the help they can get!!!)

Bob.
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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 22:17

Thursday, Oct 04, 2012 at 22:17
Whatever way it was done Bob, the outcome, or rather income, for the government would be required to be the same as before. In fact the cynic in me says it would need to be a little better. LOL

Cheers
Allan

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