Simpson Desert Claims Another Victim

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 07:54
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Hi All

I do not know how widespread this news is, but it was reported on the ABC Radio News this morning that tragically a 25 year old man has died in the Simpson Desert.

On Monday morning 2 men left Ethabuka Station, on the far eastern side of the desert and around 10 kilometres from the station became hopelessly bogged in the powder soft sand. The 2 men tried in vein to free the vehicle, but with no luck and very little water, tried to walk the 10 kilometres back to the station.

With temperatures in the mid 40's C, sadly the 25 year old man collapsed around 2 kilometres from the homestead, while the other man just managed to struggle into the homestead.

When a recovery team retraced their steps, they sadly found the 25 year old man deceased.

This should be a timely reminder that it does not matter how experienced you are, safely for you and those in your group is paramount and nothing should be taken for granted.


Condolences to the young man's family.



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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:05

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:05
Just read this also on the news wire.
Amazed that this still happens after all the previous similar incidents, particularly by what I assume to be experienced station hands.
Very sad.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:14

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:14
Hi John

I had a quick look on the Internet so I could have a link, but there was nothing at the time.

Yes a very tragic event that should never have happened.



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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:27

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:27
Since I have posted this sad story, I can now add this link:


Simpson Desert Death


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Reply By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:33

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:33
Here is a link to the ABC Queensland news

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-07/25yo-man-dies-of-thirst-in-outback-queensland/4357380?section=qld

tragic news indeed.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:58

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 08:58
Thanks Heather


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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:12

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:12
Very tragic, Stephen.

While I don't know anymore than what's in the news article, the sad result is probably the accumulation of a number of "mistakes".

It's easy to be blase about a walk home, when you're only 16 clicks from the station, but ground temperatures would have been far in excess of the ambient temps. Not enough drinking water, and even the wrong hat, baseball caps instead of an Akubra or other broad brimmed hat, can make a huge difference.

One could question whether they had any communication, as UHF should work well over that distance, unless they were caught behind a high sandhill.

With WHS on the case, I wouldn't like to be the person in charge there!!!

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:06

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:06
Hi Bob

It is a very serious accident that with all of todays modern communications and safety gear, just should never have happened.

One can only imagine what those poor parents are going through.


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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:16

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:16
Hi Stephen

If thats the way is was it seems incredible that one wouldn't, as a minimum , wait till the heat of the day was over to do the walk.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:19

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:19
Hi Robin

Just like Bob has just said, the temperatures would have been even far hotter out there on foot.

If they had no other way of getting back, then yes they should have waited until it was nightfall.

A very sad accident that should have never happened.


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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:20

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 09:20
Most unfortunate and sad Stephen. One can only wonder how this could have occurred.
Despite the obvious lack of effective communications and drinking water, it does again highlight the need to stay with the vehicle.

Ethabuka was a station west of Boulia, now a reserve owned by the group Bush Heritage Australia who maintain a number of such reserves. Here is a link to the Ethabuka website.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:21

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:21
Hi Allan

It is a very sad accident that should have never happened, and now the questions will be asked....why....why...why.



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Reply By: Danna - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 10:53

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 10:53
It is a most unfortunate tragedy. I’m very sorry for his family.
I can understand why it probably happened.
Those young man went to work on bore…plenty of water there……
It is only relatively “short” distance from homestead, and they most likely made this trip many times with no problem and no radio or any other communication ……..
It will be very hard for the co-worker/ friend to live with this tragedy.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:29

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:29
Hi Dana

It is a very sad event that should not have happened.



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Reply By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 11:10

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 11:10
Very sad indeed, especially as he was working to preserve and repair the environment that claimed him.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:36

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 12:36
Hi Bazooka

There will be lots of questions now ask how why and his happened, which will be too late for his parents.



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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 13:15

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 13:15
Latest info from Courier Mail

Latest info
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:44

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:44
Hi Lyn


Thanks for the latest update.

This is such a tragedy.



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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:10

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:10
This comes back to the golden rules of survival that have been hammered for years

Jack Absalom was very stern about these recomendations in his books and videos back in the 80's.......he accompanied his recomendations with one completly preventable tragic story after another............the rules where not new then and people keep hammering them today. with good reason....

I'l hammer them again, and encourage you all to do likewise at every opportunity it may prevent someone dying needlessly.

1. Do not go anywhere without a more than adequate supply of water.

2. Do not over exert yourself in the heat of the day.

3. Stay with the vehicle if you cant get it going

4. If you must travel on foot do it in the cool of the evening, night or very early morning.

5. Have a good hat and wear it.

6. Of course tell someone where you are going and when you plan to be back.

I make no opologies whatsoever for this post.

A great many people have died needlessly because they have failed to follow these simple and easily lived with rules.

If I was a staton boss, I would insist that every vehicle carried at least 20 litres of drinking water at all times.

If these guys would have stayed put preferably under some sort of shade, they may have been thursty, but they would be alive...someone would have come looking if they where not home for their tucker.

If they had waited till late afternoon to walk the 4 hours home they would probably still be alive.

A good hat may have even saved the the bloke that died.

very sad.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:56

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 14:56
Hi Bantam

Yes, they are the Golden Rules for safe Outback Travel.

Like many here on the forum, it is very hard to fathom how and why such a tragedy happened.

It is always very easy for us all to say what we would have done, but until the true facts of this event unfold, all we can do is hope that this type of accident never happens again, but sadly it will.

You make a very good point about the hat, but having been involved with station people, I would have thought that the poor young lad would have been wearing a 10 gallon hat, which is usually standard attire for station life.



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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 18:28

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 18:28
Bantam - too true. A very sad situation, however even if you don't want to overcomplicate it, there's really 3 basic rules.

1. tell someone where you're going and when you expect to get back or arrive (basic SAR 101)

2. carry enough water for your journey and time to be rescued

3. Stay with the vehicle !!!!!! - easy to spot if someone knows your route...

Tick those three and 99.9% of these tragic events won't happen.
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 15:52

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 15:52
This is a tragedy and I would like to tell all of an experience we had that was damned good to be a "witness" to.

On our recent trip though the Simpson we were allowed to drive through a huge, I mean BIG, cattle station near the edge of the desert. Normally its "stay out" but I convinced the owners that we would not be a problem. And we weren't. During our time on the property we had their repeater on the UHF. At one stage a couple of the hands were getting ready for a drive to do some maintenance, The boss was adamant that they went through everything that they had in the ute. They called out what they had and in the end he said "I know you blokes have been here for years but don't take chances. Put another spare in the back". The list went from first aid, clothing through food, water to emergency comms, fuel and tools.

We were doubly impressed when we met them. These blokes looked as if they had "lived" there for decades. Not kids on a work study etc. Just the way they talked and held themselves said heaps. They knew the area and were damned sure that they would be "back for a beer". "The boss is a pain in the **** but a bloody good bloke to work for". I was happy to tell the "boss" what they said when we finally met them.

Now I know why he quizzed me about ourselves, the car and what we had on board.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 20:28

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 20:28
Sounds like a very sensible bloke indeed.
Never criticise someone who cares enough to keep asking about the safety of his people, regardless of their experience, complacency can get you so easily!!

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 20:31

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 20:31
Hi Phil

Thanks for the reply and what you encountered when you were given permission to travel through the cattle station.

The story that you have just told seems fairly typical for most station people that I know. The strange point was the "put another spare on the back"

Either they were in very puncture prone country, or the boys had forgotten to put the 2nd spare back on the ute after a puncture. You will find (well what I have personally seen from station people that I know) is it that every station tray top will have 2 complete spares mounted at the front of the tray, behind the cabin. The station people that I know have set up repeater towers around their stations, so it does not matter where the workers are, they are always able to keep in contact with the homestead.

Your now know why the boss wanted to know what you had and for very good reasons. Around 6 years ago when a station on the very edge of the Simpson (may be the same property that you went through) were doing aerial cattle mustering when the pilot radioed to the boys in the four wheel drives and motor bikes to check out a vehicle that he had seen from the air. When the station hands arrived, they found a very bogged four wheel drive in an area where it should not be. The question on the station hands lips, was why the vehicle was where it was and why was the person travelling solo. That person did the right thing, but because of his location and no one knew where he was, he also became another fatality of the Simpson, with his skeleton found under the four wheel drive. The reports at the time was that the vehicle had been there for at least 6 months and because no one knew he was there, no alarm bells were raised.

The 64 thousand dollar question which in now on everyones lips, is how did this happen. They had a senior person from Bush Heritage on the TV News tonight claiming that the station vehicles (Ethabuka) have Sat Phone and use Spot devises.

All reports are that Mo was an experienced outback hand, so why did he die in such tragic circumstances.



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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 21:09

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 21:09
Stephen, what the Bush Heritage spokesman actually said was that they have and use aids such as satellite phones and Spot devices but he did not say that the two young men were carrying them. They may or may not have been.

As is usual in situations such as this, spokespersons are careful and often circumspect in what they say publicly.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 22:17

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 22:17
Hi Allan

You are right with what you say, and one thing is for sure, they had no reliable communications equipment in use, weather it be the Spot, HF Radio, Sat Phone etc, as the alarm had not been raised. One news report stated that the the 30 year old man was found by another station property (not Ethabuka)

Either way, it will now show that with all the gear that they my have had on hand, the sad fact of life is that young Mo paid the ultimate price. It would be very interesting to hear just what happened.



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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 23:00

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 23:00
Stephen,

My take on this tragedy, after reading most of reports is this.

They went to the bore/spring early while sand was cool. On the return, as the sand had heated up, they became bogged. It may have been about midday, so temps would already be at or above 40 deg.

I feel they would have used large amounts of energy, and possibly much of their water, trying to extricate the vehicle. If they had any UHF, they would not have been able to raise the station, as other staff, would have been away from the station also. Feel that BH would run their asset fairly lean, so there may not have been someone like a cook, or manager's wife(such as on a cattle station) that could monitor the base radio.

Also feel there may not have been much combined experience between the 2 men. Familiarity breeds contempt, so 16 km isn't too far, if we head off now. As I mentioned earlier, ground temps would be up to 70 degs, or higher, and walking in hot sand is exhausting. You know that soft sand high up on a beach.......same effect, but add the furnace weather too.

Phil's story is what happens on most large stations these days. It's called Duty of Care. That's why Phil got the 3rd degree, so the manager knew he was capable of looking after himself, and his Cook too.

A tragedy like this will affect a lot more people than are currently involved, and its effect will last for some years.

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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 23:30

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2012 at 23:30
Just a couple more things to think about:

Ethabuka is NOT a working Station, it has been destocked for a number of years, it appears that Bush Heritage is returning it to it's natural state which probably means that bore tracks are not being maintained.

10 or 16 km is not a great distance on a 215,000 plus ha property, probably one of the inner paddocks around the homestead (a 215,000 ha property is about 150km x 150km if square)

Again, If it were a working cattle station I wonder if the "duty of Care" would have been different.


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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 08:27

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 08:27
Hi Lyn and Bob

What I am now stating is completely off this topic, but the same principal could or may apply in Queensland.

Here in SA some of the OH&S laws have gone rather crazy and it was stated the other week on the radio that any person (they were now referring to private individuals)that employes someone else on a regular basis, e.g. you employ a baby sitter, someone to cut you grass, do your gardening, paint you house etc MUST have in place and pointed out to the people or person that you are using their services a OH&S Policy.

If this is the case for other states here in Australia, the ultimate buck stops with Bush Heritage, either if they have these men as employees and has employed them as contractors.

I cannot comment on how Bush Heritage carry out their business affairs, but the person or manager that told the men to do the work should have been aware what the 2 men had or did not have in their vehicle at the time.

Either way it will not bring back Mo, but it should serve a timely warning to others in this same situation.


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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 10:47

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 10:47
Stephen.... without knowing all the facts these 2 guys may of been untrained backpackers or free labour like most heritage organisations use from time to time.

The buck has to stop with the person who is in charge of them.

As for ascertaining risk..... everyone has there own idea of risk, what it is and how to operate with it.

What may be seen as a risk by one may not be a risk for another.

All you have to do is look at the forums.

We deal with occupational health and safety and environmental policies and procedures on a daily basis and I am always at loggerheads with other company safety officials mostly regarding stupid little ideas they have ..... we do mechanical on heavy vehicle and earthmoving and one problem we have is with long sleeved shirts, they want us to wear them for sun damage and we don't want to wear them because long sleeves can get caught in moving parts dragging us in..... the common sense approach is stay clear of moving parts.

The hardest thing is complying with everyones policies..... looks like the general public will soon have to start doing morning toolbox meeting and fill out safe work method statements.

As for not keeping in contact.... our guys have to make voice contact back to the office every 15 minutes whether by mobile or satellite phone no matter what or where the job is...... we insist on voice contact as we can determined there state of mind and health easier than by them pressing a OK button.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 11:28

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 11:28
Thanks for the latest info on OHS, Stephen.

Not sure what the go is in Qld now, as I've had nearly 4 years away from station managing, and am happily ignorant(to some degree) of the pitfalls of the bottomless pit called OHS.

All I'll say about BH at this time is that they will be doing a LOT of reports over the coming weeks. Just on their communications, if the sandhills are up to 30M high, and UHF isn't always reliable, then a hand-held would have been a valuable addition in the vehicle. Walking to the top of the sandhill and transmitting using the h/held would be sure to alert someone.

Olcoolone makes some solid points about WHS. One needs to be proactive, and have a strong safety system, that can stand up to the sort of scrutiny that can be forced upon you, in the advent of a fatality.

In my past life, we were constantly checking staff during the day, had reliable vehicles, UHF in every vehicle plus 2 repeaters on 4,200 sq. kms, and rarely sent one person out by themselves. Motorbike riders had to carry h/helds, even if they were only going a few clicks away. Monthly safety meetings, chaired by a different staff member each time, and anyone transgressing these rules, got a session of "heated mentoring" from someone in charge. Dress code was important, and thongs(for your feet :-))) were only worn up to the dining room for meals.

Ethabukka is pretty much "wall- to-wall" sandhills, so I would expect their safety system would need to be even more stringent than what ours was. But judging by some the media reports posted on here, then there's been a bit of breakdown.

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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 03:00

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 03:00
This is the link to the story below.
I cut and pasted it on here in case the paywall stopped people from reading the article.

The Australian Nov 8th 2012


MAINTENANCE contractor Josh Hayes had an estimated half an hour to live when he was found on a lonely outback track, having been forced to leave his mate who died of thirst in the blistering heat.

Tragically, Mauritz Pieterse, 25, would almost certainly have survived had they not broken the "golden rule" of the bush and abandoned their bogged four-wheel drive ute to walk 16km to a homestead on the edge of the Simpson Desert in southwest Queensland.

"They had a full fuel tank, they could have sat in the ute in the air-conditioning, listening to the radio until someone turned up," said neighbour Greg Woods, who found Pieterse's body late on Monday night and saved a severely dehydrated Mr Hayes.

"They broke the golden rule. They never had enough water and they walked away from the vehicle.

"It was just a bad decision and it turned out to be the ultimate price."
Mr Hayes, 30, a contractor, was last night in a stable condition in Mount Isa Hospital and declined interview requests.

He and Pieterse, a South African-born former Queensland government wildlife ranger, set out on Monday on what was supposed to be a "10-minute" routine maintenance job on a bore in the southern reaches of Ethabuka Station, a pastoral property converted to private nature reserve by non-profit conservationist organisation Bush Heritage Australia.

At the time their ute became bogged on Monday, the temperature had hit 47C in the desolate locality near Bedourie, 1600km west of Brisbane, way beyond mobile phone coverage.

To make matters worse, they were surrounded by 30m-tall spinifex-covered sandhills that are believed to have blocked the ute's in-built UHF radio's signal.

They decided to walk to the homestead, less than 16km north, and 140km northwest of the nearest town, Bedourie, but never arrived.

Police say Pieterse "became thirsty and stopped to rest" and Mr Hayes struggled on.

When the pair failed to return home, a workmate raised the alarm and Mr Woods, an experienced bushman who manages neighbouring grazing property Carlo Station, drove through the night, scouring the remote and dusty bush tracks in the still-sweltering evening, but it was too late to save Pieterse.

"I came across Mo first, and he was finished; he had collapsed in the middle of the road . . . about 11km from the homestead," Mr Woods said.
He discovered Mr Hayes further down the track: weak, disoriented and still insistent on saving his mate.

"Josh didn't know anything about (Mo's death), he had told Mo he'd come back and get him when he reached the homestead," Mr Woods said.

"Another half an hour further and Josh would've been gone, he was that close.

"I chucked him in the shower and cooled him down, giving him sips of water."

Pieterse had worked at Bush Heritage Australia's twin Simpson Desert properties -- which cover about 500,000 hectares -- for more than a year.

Just last week, he visited the Victorian head office for safety training

Pieterse's grieving family last night described him as a "gentle giant".

"He was the best son ever," his mother Geraldine Pieterse told The Courier-Mail from her home in Western Australia.

Police will prepare a report for the Coroner and workplace health and safety officials are investigating.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 08:12

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 08:12
Hi John

Thanks for that very latest information, it gives a far clearer picture.

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32
It keeps comming back to that single most important rule.

WATER, wherever you go you must have more than adequate water.

You can last well over a week with no food, but in the Australian heat...and it does not need to be desert.......lack of water can kill you in hours.
If you overexert yourself in the heat particularly if you fail to keep up fluids you can be unconciuos and incapable in minutes and dead within the hour.

Ya cant take this lightly, the climate gives no quarter and shell be right will get you killed.

It does not matter how hard and fit and healthy you are or how experienced.....fail to follow the simple rules and the odds of being found dead are very good.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 14:33

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 14:33
Hi Bantam

There appears to have been a number of very important golden rules broken and that very sad fact of life is that Mo paid the ultimate price.

The plain simple facts for that environment with those extreme temperatures is no water = death regardless weather it is man or beast.

Hindsight is great, but if they had stayed with the vehicle and kept out of the sun, I feel sure that may have been a better outcome.

Like I have said above, his family will want to know many more answers.



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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32
From a newspaper report:

Greg Woods, from neighbouring Carlo Station, set out shortly before dark. Even at that late hour, the heat from the sand is so intense that driving through the dunes comes with a high risk.
He found Mr Pieterse's body about 11.30pm on a bush track.
"I found Mo's hat and shirt and car keys where he'd dropped them and I came across him a bit further down the track, but he was finished," he said.
"You get so hot once you get overheated like that you can't think straight and you don't know what you're doing – a lot of people who perish do strip off.
"I was more wild with him for doing it than I was bloody sad for him. I thought he had more bloody sense than that, but anyway that's the way it turned out."
Mr Woods retraced his tracks and found Mr Hayes - who had been wearing only thongs, a singlet and no hat - a short time later.
"He'd been curled up under a bush, so I didn't see him when I drove past the first time" he said. "He ran out behind me, he said, then stayed on the track in case I came back."
Mr Woods said he was in a pitiful condition and near death.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/desert-death-the-mind-does-pretty-funny-things-20121107-28yh3.html#ixzz2BaQ2LNEp



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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 14:25

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 14:25
Hi Lyn

Thanks for the continued updates. The more that is coming out about it now, there are some very serious errors in what they should have done.

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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 15:07

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 15:07
Many questions............not many answers yet.

It is so easy to become complacent with what should have been a quick trip. In flat country you would just about be able to see the homestead from 16km.

Just ask yourself if you would set off an EPIRB if you were not injured and only bogged your car and you just about see home 16km away.

Also wondering if they were on the booze the night before which may have impared their judgement and contributed to their dehydration.

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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 11:33

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 11:33
I think they would have been in sand dune country.

This has been a very sad incident that should not have happened, but sadly it does. I wonder if the "she'll be right" attitude may not have been a contributing factor, and the "young mans" tendency to think themselves bullet-proof.

Last year we were at Birdsville and decided to take a run out to Big Red on the detour track. A sunny day, quite warm. Along the way we came across a vehicle with the bonnet up. The young male driver worked on a local property and had come into town for a dental appointment, but had a bit of time to spare so thought he would go for a bit of an explore. But his vehicle overheated and all he had was about a litre of water for himself and the vehicle. Fortunately we were able to give him plenty and we waited until he was mobile again and safely on his way.

But we really scratched our heads at why anyone familiar with that area would go anywhere without a good supply of water, especially since he had a bit of a drive just to get into Birdsville. Relying on passing traffic is not a good option out there.

All the safety advice in the world wont help if it is ignored.

Cheers,

Val.
J and V
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 17:48

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 17:48
"But we really scratched our heads at why anyone familiar with that area would go anywhere without a good supply of water"

Sometime familiarity is the problem - when you do something many times without any issues, you begin to think there's no risks.

Like my motorbike riding days in Sydney traffic .... jst when you thought this was a cinch ...... WHAM !
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 16:30

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 16:30
As anyone who has worked in 50+ degree heat will tell you it is an effort just to remember to drink enough water. Heat like that starts to play with your mind. Your brain feels like it is being boiled in blood and rational thought becomes almost impossible. Keeping yourself hydrated is of course No1 priority but not exerting your body during the hottest time of day can be the difference between death and survival.

What a tragedy for those men and particularly the family of the deceased.


Pop
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 17:35

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 17:35
Pop,
you are sure right about that. It is amazing how quickly you go down hill and how little time it takes for you brain to start shutting your organs down. The point of no return certainly comes quickly.

Bob Y will know where this is. We were doing a job out at the Burke River bores on Chatsworth and it was bloody hot. 2 of us drank in excess of 20 litres of water in under 6 hours.

I really feel for the family of this young fella.

RA.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:02

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:02
This is a bit OT but you may want to read this article on the possible hazards of drinking too much water in the heat and doing work/hiking etc.

Over-hydration 'hazard for Kokoda hikers'

Yes it does say that the jury is out but I saw a woman collapse, severly sick, on TV on the "track" and the diagnosis was over hydration.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:42

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:42
Hi Pop and RA

I have 2 sons working up in the Pilbara. Last year when one of my sons was out in the full heat and well over 50 C temperatures, ( he is a licensed surveyor ) and not in the luxury of an air conditioned vehicle, James said that he was drinking a minimum of 12 litres of water ever day, that they would prepare in large ice containers before leaving camp each morning. When I asked how could he possibly drink so much water, he said very easy. I then said he must be wanting to have a pee every 10 minutes, but again said no, as like he said, as quick as the fluid was going into his body in the form of the cool water, it was being sweated out just as quick, so one was compensating for the other.

Yes, James was out in the full sun, but in a very different situation to being bogged, struggling in vein to try and free the bogged vehicle and then setting off with next to no water.

Like it has been said many times in this post, no water in extreme hot weather conditions will untimely lead to one thing, which in the sad case of Mo was the final event in the equation.

This is indeed a very sad situation that should never have happened if they had followed the safety rules that should have been in place.


Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:12

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:12
Phil,
you are correct in what you say you can I guess over do everything.

Here is a better explanation. We were pulling and then reinstalling a bore pump. Much of the work required a lot of grunt. The temps were in low to mid 40's so the sun temp would have been over 50. As Stephan said you don't ever want to pee.

Have been in the dehydration situation a couple times and it is not nice.
We used to watch each others backs and as soon as someone said I feel a bit off it was time to get them out of there.

They move quickly to the point of releasing their body fluids (nice way of putting it) and then they can't keep anything down.

Have a good one,
RA.


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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:42

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:42
You are correct mate. When I was younger I used to sweat a lot and had to keep the fluids up. These days I do not sweat nearly as much and for that reason I can easily over hydrate. My recommended niormal intake is around three litres a day. If hot, outside and exercising then the tops is 5 litres a day. This is as recommended by a bunch of specialists when I was taken to hospital with a staffo something infection. Nearly carked it. We blokes are buggers when sick.

I lost 10Kgs in two weeks while lying on my bed and not eating or drinking much. They ran tests for three days until they found the bugger. Stuck in my hip bone where I had just had a bone marrow biopsy. It took a week in hospital of drips and "witnessed" meals to get better. Even the infectious diseases boffin got in on it. They really did not know what was wrong until a hematologist found the bug.

They set levels worked out for me personally. This was a good lesson and I was told never to exceed them. I hope that by showing the link above that people realise that just because the next bloke needs 10 litres a day they may not need as much.

We are all different. Someones son had 10 litres each day. That would kill me.

Phil
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 17:16

Thursday, Nov 08, 2012 at 17:16
Earlier today I caught an ABC interview with outback survival expert Bob Cooper. He was being asked about outback survival in general and made some very interesting remarks. When asked about the most basic things to have with you he offered just two, water and matches. Water is obvious but he said that with matches you are able to light a fire and by burning the vehicle tyres attract attention. To be honest, I had not thought of burning tyres. He also said that whilst electronic devices, satphones, radio and PLB's, were useful they should not be depended upon due to the possibility of damage or electrical failure.

Although Bob was not discussing the recent incident particularly, he obviously was in possession of more information than has been published and did say that the two men were found on another track from the one that they were expected to be on. This explains to me the reason that they were not found earlier when Bush Heritage staff from Ethabuka homestead initially searched.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Candace S. - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 05:49

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 05:49
Here in the US, I've heard the advice about burning tires to draw attention. Soaking them with oil (as from the engine) first makes even more thick black smoke. Such smoke is obviously not from a bush or camp fire. So if anyone is near enough to see it, hopefully it will dawn on them that someone should go have a look.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:57

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:57
Hi Allan

That would have been a very interesting interview to listen to from a very experienced person.

Years ago when Jack Absalom produced a number of informative Videos, he produced a very good one on outback survival and went through the scenarios of what to do and not do.

The last thing that he said to do (remember he would always only drive his old faithful Sigma Station wagon) was you have 6 tyres on your vehicle, yes he was including the extra spare.

Just near dust at the end of the day, set fire to the first tyre. Like he said, the air is usually still at that time of the day and the intense black smoke will rise high in the sky. He said most station people will be out and about and when they see the black smoke, will go and investigate what it is. If it does not work the first night, then set fire to the second tyre and continue on until help has arrived.

If for some terrible circumstances you come to the seventh night, well you are now really in trouble....


Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:49

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:49
Yes it was interesting Stephen. I have tried to find an audio or transcript on ABC Radio Net but not successful yet.

The only things that Bob Cooper says that I would take issue with was using plastic bags to collect water from the leaves of "large non-toxic trees" and collecting water from the vehicle air-conditioning drain.The desert areas are not known for large trees with lots of respiring leaves and with the probable low humidity of these regions, the air-conditioner is not likely to produce very much water. The quantities of water gained from these methods does not match the quantity that is proposed as necessary for survival.

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 10:56

Friday, Nov 09, 2012 at 10:56
Allan,

Wife and I were discussing both these points this morning, and questioned their suitability for that climate.

On the day of the tragedy, I recall they were forecasting humidity levels down to 5%!!! Hardly likely to get much output from the aircon, and even if it did produce some, would it have been enough for 2 men?

Bob.

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Reply By: Lyn W3 - Saturday, Nov 10, 2012 at 17:38

Saturday, Nov 10, 2012 at 17:38
Latest report:

The Fatal decision
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Nov 10, 2012 at 19:16

Saturday, Nov 10, 2012 at 19:16
Hi Lyn

Thanks for that final and very detailed event that should have never happened.

Thanks for following it through, greatly appreciated.


Cheers



Stephen
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