Why can't you just camp anywhere?

With the amount of natural events the Eastern States has had recently,
e.g. Fires,floods ,you wouldn't want campers spread out everywhere.
I know when I am camping, as I am out of the car I don't hear the news to often. Another disappointing fact is the state the free campsites are left in, toilet paper scattered everywhere, campfires not properly
put out. Rubbish piled up. No wonder governments doen't like campers !

If authorities want to do something about the mess left around bush and roadside camps they need to spend some time camping in these places. I would suggest that they will have a similar experience to myself, and I suggest many of us, and discover that the mess is usually left by day-trippers and backpackers. My experience has been that campers have a tendency to keep a place tidy and take their rubbish with them to dispose of properly. I for one am sick of being punished for the indiscretions of others by being told I cannot camp here or there even though I do it responsibly. I understand the need to get permissions to go on to non-public lands, but there are an awful lot of public lands out there. If we are to stop the tide of toilet paper that litters almost every parking bay alongside our highways can I suggest that hire companies be compelled to supply portable loos and sit hirees through an instructive video on the subject of responsible camping. I don't for a minute think this will be the panacea that will solve the litter problem, but surely it is a better start than simply stopping everyone from responsibly doing something they enjoy. We make our choice of campsite based on the lifestyle we are chasing and I am afraid that choice is slowly but surely diminishing, and caravan parks rarely if ever offer something that is attractive to us.
Here's to happy camping.
Mike

I totally agree with Tessydad, that the seemingly endless tide of used toilet paper , is generally not left by those of us who choose to camp this way , and that the hire companies should have hirers sit through a "how to camp responsibly "video, and the vehicle should come equipped with a porta potti , mind you , it would help if there were toilets at more rest stops , particularly in South Australia.Lyn

How on earth do you know just who it is that leaves used toilet paper to blow around camping areas? Do you watch carefully as they do their "business" and dutifully note if they are "day trippers" and "backpackers" or if they are 'Real Campers' just like us? I mean, we are Real True Blue Campers with big expensive rigs so we would never soil Australia would we?

I'm afraid that one does not have to be particularly nosey to notice a vehicle pull up and one or more occupants get out and slip behind a bush for a few minutes armed with nothing more that a roll of toilet paper. It is also a bit difficult to ignore what happens when a truck pulls up and the driver makes a similar move with the same accoutrements in hand. Its all about as difficult as deciphering what a bloke who is standing 50 meters from his vehicle near a bush, with his back to the traffic, is doing - taking a good look at that blue wren of course. The point is that the authorities are never there to see what actually happens, they just assume that those they can see at the site when they visit are the ones responsible. Policing is of course a very expensive way of getting to the bottom (no pun intended) of things, but surely better than punishing those of us who remove what others have left rather than add to the already disgusting mess we often find.
Cheers,
Mike.

It doesn't give you the right to camp on private properties, and that includes pastoral leases.

Disco.

I'm with you bibtracker,
I clean my Miroku U/O on the camp table !!!

Western Australia is my first goal, so yes, it does help, than you.

the only sensible post ive seen as ive scrolled down - the rest of the muppets blame the government

90 % of all no camping sighn s out bush ive seen are placed by pastoralists NOTHING to do with the government

the WA government has been activly taking over mkany leases which INCREASES to places to go and camp NOT decreases

- just hoping ive cleared up the errounous statements of fiction

It's interesting how in the US there's so much public land (I guess) relative to Australia. I sort of thought most of Australia was bush, and free to roam in. Twenty million people in land that size, you'd think there's space.

Hi Cloudseeker

Even crown land is under the control of some body - who may or may not permit camping. Generally, up to thirty metres from the road centre is considered road reserve, and stopping within this if need be is acceptable.

Once it was easy to pull over and stop for the night, but increasing pressure of numbers and a few that leave an unsightly mess have made this harder.

Having said all of that, we do not find it difficult to find somewhere quiet for the night most of the time, particularly in the vast state of WA.

For more populated areas such as near the eastern seaboard, we often resort to the well known publication Camps Australia Wide (available through the ExplorOz bookshop) to find somewhere legal to stop for the night. There are many designated free and low cost campsites, and some roadside rest areas are suitable too.

In WA on the highways in the north west and the south east of the state, Main Roads provide a number of rest areas a reasonable distance away from the highway with a pit toilet and often a dump point for stopping overnight.

Mh

Some of the other issues are mining leases, and fenced lands. Great tracks of what appear to be bush as observed from the side of the road are leased lands and are often fenced so pulling over into a nice patch of bush can be problo9matic at times. Nowithstanding, as mentioned above if you do find an accessible spot and pull well off the road, (don't get bogged if it's been raining), out of sight you can usually be ok.

Play it by ear, keep it clean and enjoy.

The thirty meters isn't that helpful for tent camping, which is what I intend to do...

As for the fences, that's like Texas, which is just about the worst state in the US. There is nowhere to escape to, it's all private ranches, all fenced. I took a long drive once and was forced to pull over, call of nature (no, I don't leave trash), so I snuck under a fence and found myself in this sandy corner of some mega ranch. There was a beautiful pond there with PINK FLAMINGOS. Wow. What an amazing, magical sight. I'd never seen any before. It was so pretty and so peaceful. But the public gets no access.

I could have been shot, too.

Hi Cloudseeker

We have asked a farmer if we could stay on his prpoerty. My husband developed a bad headache by lunchtime and we looked for somewhere to stop and sleep over, but saw nothing in the short term. After stopping at a couple of farm gates and not getting a good feel, we pulled into the third one. Asking the farmer if we could stop over (self contained) in his back paddock until the morning he said "Follow me" and escorted us to the edge of a large freshwater lake his property fronted. It was rich in a huge variety of birdlife, and a range on the far side reflected in the water. It was a camp you would go for some distance just to see if it was open to the public. Magic.

We have also pulled further than 30 metres away from the road on pastoral stations. We often cannot ascertain on what station we are, where the homestead is or know their UHF band. We are trespassing as we should have asked, but it is just not realistic to do so and there is no way we will drive at night in unfenced pastoral land.

Mh

Hi Motherhen and Cloudseeker,

I think you have hit the nail on the head there Motherhen and that is, ask.

I would suggest that the personal approach will get you an answer in the afirmative in about 85% to 90% of cases.

Cloudseeker I would suggest that if you went up to the farmer with an American accent and told him/her you were touring this great country you may well get the royal treatment as was Motherhen on the above occassion.

'Ask first' is always the best policy.

A farmer usually only wants to know if someone is out in the back paddock, and that they will do the right thing, that is all, usually.

Cheers, Bruce

The only time we have ever been moved on was in Queensland. Looking for somewhere to pull off a busy road (busy for us) after quite a long day we finally found a flat cleared but unsigned parking bay with no screening from the road to stop the traffic noise. A power line passing through it had service tracks; to one side a real goat track and to the other a well used truck width road. I walked the powerline track and after a couple of kilometres the formed road turned into two old and wide open wooden gates and a disused gravel source on a hill. We did not investigate beyond the hill and it appeared from tracks that gravel trucks had recently been through the area perhaps to an actively used gravel source on this hill. There was no sign of a house and it was not a house entrance nor like farm gates. Although we have never before camped inside a gateway, this seemed like a council gravel source, we were tired and my husband as the driver needed to stop, the breeze on the hill was nice and the view lovely. My husband was lying down resting and I was putting on the kettle to make a cup of tea when the farmer arrived with a ute load of snapping dogs. I asked if it was his land, explained we had thought it a council gravel pit, and asked if we could stay the night saying we would move on if he wanted us to. I explained our caravan was self contained. What about your campfire? He asked. I told him that we were farmers from Western Australia and that we did not light campfires because if fire risk and that I cooked on a gas stove in the caravan. I was holding the kettle in my hand at the time. He still did not look happy, so I asked again if we could stay with his permission, and that we would go if he asked us to. He asked us to go, suggesting the parking area we had come from. We returned to for the night although it was not a quiet night and trucks pulled as well as passing by. It was luck of the draw that he had been on the block when we arrived. I’m sure not all Queensland farmers are that unfriendly and thought what we would have done if we found interstate caravanners parked on our land. What would I have done? Asked them to dinner of course.

Mh

I imagine that if you had been luckier and bumped into that chap before you had stopped to set up camp for the night he may well have let you stay there but as you were already there his nose may have been a little out of joint.

You know how it is Motherhen, we don't mind if someone is on the place so long as they do the right thing and are decent people to deal with.

Last thing we want is to be getting up someones nose because it is too dangerous to have a fire and some fool has lit a camp fire and can't see why they should have to put it out as they have cleaned around the fire for 2 or 3 metres and to due to their lack of bush education, thinking it is safe.

Otherwise, as you say, happy to have them there provided they understand it is your property, therefore, your rules. Oh, and ask first.

Cheers, Bruce.

Hi Bruce

If we were aware it was a farm we wouldn't have gone through the gates. We sort of broke our own camping rules by doing so, but for safety, we had to stop for my husband to rest so tried an easy option.

As i have told the tale before, on a property we had in the south of the state, i got up one morning and saw someone parked inside our front gate which is a few hundred metres from the house, so my son and husband went to investigate. I can't recall now what his breakdown was, but he had to pull in off the road. Asked why they come to the house, as son leaves an outdoor floodlight on all night, he said as it was late he though he might startle us more by coming. Fair enough, but if they had come they could have bunked down in more comfort on the lounge-room floor at least, and been fed. He had called someone for help so needed no further assistance.

We are in the south west, not a pastoral area, so farms are much smaller and are fenced.

It is NO campfires on our farms.

Mh

Fires are not a problem in this area in the main except for maybe once in every 5 or seven years we get a bad run of weather which makes you exceptionally wary.

Mainly small blocks in our area also.

We are down to 100 hectares now as we have subdivided off the worst of it some years ago. I have retired and am not farming in any way at all now. The returns don't justify the expense and worry. The neighbours have their cattle on our place just to keep the grass down.

This area here is typical coastal forests interspersed with the odd pocket of rainforest and open grass lands for grazing.

Cheers, Bruce.

Very different here Bruce. Throughout most of the rural areas of WA there is strictly NO CAMPFIRES during the summer months eg November to April - but each Shire sets their own period according to their climate and this may be extended according to seasonal conditions. On fire ban days, even cooking outside on a gas barbecue is not permitted, nor is driving in paddocks.

Unfortunately there are always some people who think the notices do not apply to them, sometimes with disastrous results. In the recent spate of fires, one of the large fires in Tasmania was started by a campfire which had not been fully extinguished, and several were reported in Victoria.

And you're right about farming :(

Mh

Camp fires are not rocket science are they, if you cannot get enough water to totaly extinguish them then cover them with sufficient dirt that there is no way a spark can fly.

We are sub tropical over on this side and our rainfall is greater.

We also frequently get flooding in our area as some of the rivers have pretty big catchments and these east coast lows give us a bucketing when they come, hence the lesser fire risk.

BC.

Sadly Bruce there are many who think that covering the coals with dirt alone will do the job. Fires have escaped quite some time after burying the coals when the weather has changed. Then there have been bad burns resulting from someone walking or running across hidden coals; too often a young child. I was lucky to avoid being burnt on a beach once when i nearly stepped into coals under loose sand which you would never know on sight was any different to the rest of the beach. Luckily i realised my foot was rather hot before i was committed to the step. I had two near full twenty litre buckets of water from doing the washing, and using up both, the sand still steamed ans sizzled. This was right outside the caravan door - we could have parked on top of it, or lost a tyre.

Mh

another topic in itself MH but ive noticed most people bur a fire and look in dismay as i do my prefered opposite

I spread the coals very thinly over a wide area often 2-3m

i find the coals die very quickly this way

as i kid i learned burying fires is stupid becuase we had a "pet fire" for a week


after school wed go out to the bush on the edge of town and dig it back up, a bit of a blow and some kindling and we would wake it up

before mum expected us home we would bury it again letting it slleep until tomorrow

ive remebered that for over 30 years that a buryed fire takes days to go out where as a spread fire gos out in less than an hour

even more useless than burying a fire is "putting it out" with a couple of buckets of water

unless you have access to 100s of litres your just being silly

i learnt this when putting out some sleepers

i fully extinguished the fire with a hose only to come back 1/2 an hour later to see it alight, i then didnt muck around and fully doused it for 3 times longer than you would think was neccessary to be totally sure

yep you guessed it, back up it went

I got it out eventually but im talkingabout 1000l of water (based on 20l pm)

- do you carry that much??

out of curiosity why the heck would you need a fire that takes "1000 litres" to put out?
On Cable Beach a couple of years back was a terrible incident where a crawling baby on the sand crawled into the remnants of some idiots buried or spread fire and it took a period of time for the parents to realize why it was crying.
Two years ago I was towing my kids along the beach on a piece of conveyor belt and straight through a "spread out fire". Unlimited seawater 5 meters away. Luckily no injury.

yes fish 064 thanks fotr agreeing

the baby didnt crawl through spread out embers - they would have been cool, they were buryed - hence what I said - they dont lose thier heat when buryed, your kids werent injured going through spread out coals - why would they have? the coals cool very quickly and extinquish

as for the burning sleepers, they were part of a burnoff on a property which i went to extinguish because i was leaving the area and wanted to put everything out which taught me it takes far more water than most people are capable of in a camping situation to put out hardwood

No, not that thread. Of course I got many replies! I asked this on a thread where people were talking about campgrounds in Broome. This current thread helps clarify things. Even if it may seem a repeat to some this point was not clear to me.

...or vermin, free to be shot or poisoned. Wouldn't risk it myself and besides cat tastes better :)

Cheers
Greg

As far as I know the TSR (Travelling Stock Route) is open for all to use to camp. You just have to be prepared to share with the drovers if they are on the move but my experience is that you are only really likely to strike these folks in numbers during periods of drought. Some great camping along the TSR (I'm talking in NSW here) - especially near the creeks.

More information on the NSW TSR here:NSW Travelling Stock Routes

Hi Patrol,

Seems that TSRs are not supposed to be used for camping by individuals - unless you are in a group with a permit and appropriate insurance. Have a look here at the website.

Cheers,

Val

Yeah seems things have changed somewhat Val. This must be a relatively recent approach as about 5 years ago the relevant authority gave a talk at my 4WD club and told us that the TSRs were available for use...no permit required. Guess like everything else thing change eh.

When I'm out hiking happily and I suddenly come across trash, it ruins my whole day. That's when I hate people the most.

dont forget theres a big difference between owned freehold land - where you actually own all the land much like i own my house and block and a pastoral lease which is Non exclusive and gives the right to graze livestock only (a few more rights than this but basically)

this land can be used for other leases and purposes such as water leases and exploration leases etc. Alot of the issues come about because the pastoralists think they own the land which they dont

this is why a pasoral lease is much cheaper than owning the land

yes some might say stations are sold for big money - thats irrelevent and has nothing to do woith the cost of the lease

I looked that up and I think you're referring to a horror movie. No thanks. ;)

I guess I should read up on giant centipedes and biting ants. I hope I'm not attacked by a giant centipede.

Good stories! Leading any convoys in the future? :)

Those impromptu camp sites can bring interesting memories.

One was a gravel pit on the north end of Wollemi. Firts is was the hoons who decided to do wheelies around the gravel pit some time during the night, then early the next morning a nearby farmer must have been out playing with his gun. Felt like we were in Deliverance.

But a surprising one, we somehow managed to camp 3 tmes over the years at a spot outside of Bourke well off the road, somehow found the same spot 3 times over the year. Each time it was getting close to dark & the 2nd and 3rd time felt like home!
Cheers,
Vicki

Here's where I camped during my 2008 trip:

May
16 Alongside the road between the Arnhem Hwy and Fogg Dam (just east of Darwin)
17 Along the 4WD track out to Point Stuart Coastal Reserve
18 In the free campground at Jim Jim Billabong in Kadadu NP (I had the place to myself)
19 A spot just off the road between Katherine and Nitmiluk (Katherine) Gorge
20 A rest area along the Victoria Hwy, between Timber Creek and the WA border
21 Just off the Duncan Road, on a Telstra site access road, near Nicholson Homestead
22 Along the access road to the Bungle Bungles (on Mabel Downs Station and not strictly legal)
23Ord River rest area, on the Great Northern Hwy (plenty of company here!)
24 A wide spot on the Tanami Road, at the NT border
25 Along the Tanami Road, southeast of Yuendumu
26 Along the Ross Hwy east of Alice Springs; in particular just east of Jessie Gap
27 The parking area for the Trephina Gorge walk (between Alice Springs and Arltunga)
28 Along the Ross Hwy east of Alice Springs; didn't log the exact spot in my trip notes
29 Along a side road near Ormiston Gorge (not in the campground!), off Namatjira Drive
30 Along the Ross Hwy east of Alice Springs; didn't log the exact spot in my trip notes
31Yulara Resort campground
June
1Yulara Resort campground
2 Telstra tower site a few Km west of Uluru-Kata Tjuta NP (just off the Great Central Road)
3 Along a dirt road, just off the Stuart Hwy, somewhere between the SA border and Marla
4 A patch of dirt just off the track northeast of Coober Pedy, near the dog fence crossing
5 Along the Peake (OTL repeater site) access road, just off the Oodnadatta Track
6 At the Muloorina station campground, along the Lake Eyre access road, north of Marree
7 On a side road off the Strzelecki Track, a little north of the dog fence crossing (Note 1)
8Campground in Hawker, SA (I had to abandon the Strzelecki in the morning due to rain)
9 Elder Overlook, south of Flinders Ranges NP
10 Shoulder of the access road to Newland Head Cons Park south of Adelaide (Note 2)
11Parking area of Little Sahara dunes on Kangaroo Island
12 Along a road not far from Cape Willoughby on Kangaroo Island
13 (Returned bushcamper in Adelaide, flew to Sydney, stayed in hotel--depart in morning)

Note 1: It rained fairly heavily on and off all night and was still raining in the morning, so I abandoned the Strzelecki track and decided to head south instead, ultimately to Kangaroo Island. I was due to return my hire vehicle in Adelaide on 13 June.

Note 2: I tried to use the campground, but all the parking spots for the sites were at steep angles, so I would have had difficulty sleeping in the bushcamper. Plus it was blowing a gale and the campground was rather exposed. I ended up parked in a low, sheltered spot along the road...more comfortable though undoubtedly not strictly legal!

Its good form to leave the requested "donation" to the flying doctor at places like Muloorina.
Cheers,
Val

Good eye! I meant to add a comment about that. Until I assembled the list from my notes, I'd forgotten I did technically pay a bit for Muloorina. I think they requested a tiny amount (maybe only $2?) to be dropped in the box. I definitely wouldn't stiff the station a few dollars! Esp. since I enjoyed a flush toilet in what seemed to be the middle of nowhere. (I also had the place to myself!)

Candace, a lot of those spots sound very familiar to me!
Bob

The whole world is less free. :( If it entails some measure of organization for everyone's good (for example pit toilets in fragile areas) then that's good.

But every time I get a job I have to go pee in a cup because the US govt. has the right to intrude into your body. Even if you never used illegal drugs in your life. Even if you're a highly trained professional and not a 20 year old, not that 20 year olds should do this either. Pee in a cup.

I wonder which country is worse.

So yeah, I don't want to be bothered. I want to get in my truck and drive off into the middle of nowhere and wake up in the morning with no one around and sip tea and watch the sun rise and listen to the birds.

Yes, people have already told me about the book, thank you. I'll have to wait to get the book when I get there - it's just too heavy to carry on the plane. The weight restrictions are severe these days!

Possible responses:

"Well, gee, I didn't know you couldn't camp anywhere".

"I thought Australia was like the US only less populated". [I actually thought it was better, with more space and more freedom]

"I'm sorry, I wasn't feeling well" [which can happen, God knows!]

"Oh? I can't camp here? Really"? [said with true deep sadness]

Me dumb tourist. No hablo englez.

Finally, something I do easily when feeling bad, which I would if such a thing were to happen: cry.

Are Australians cops going to drag a crying non-violent woman off to jail?